Victorian Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 (edited) People aren't taking into account why taxes are being raised. Quite literally as soon as she started her statement, she premised the budget as one of shorter term investment in services and longer term growth. The argument put forward is that capital investment from borrowing + improved services from larger revenue budgets (from taxes) will put in the foundations for future growth, as well as leaving people better off in the abstract because of improved and better operating services. How else do you fund day-to-day spending in revenue budgets? One option - you don't. Austerity. People said no more austerity. Another option is borrowing. In a roundabout way that's what Truss attempted and the markets spewed up all over it. Or issue currency? Highly inflationary. Tax & spend budgeting is the choice. But at least it comes with a coherent prospectus of large scale investment and a long term plan to make efficiency savings and improve productivity. The one big leap of faith is the message that it's a 10 year project. It will fall flat if they don't win another term, because there's a lot of tax rises that the Tories can build an election campaign around. People are going to have to choose between sticking with a project or just allowing the Tories to come back in for another era of decline. Edited October 31, 2024 by Victorian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 2 minutes ago, Victorian said: People aren't taking into account why taxes are being raised. Quite literally as soon as she started her statement, she premised the budget as one of shorter term investment in services and longer term growth. The argument put forward is that capital investment from borrowing + improved services from larger revenue budgets (from taxes) will put in the foundations for future growth, as well as leaving people better off in the abstract because of improved and better operating services. How else do you fund day-to-day spending in revenue budgets? One option - you don't. Austerity. People said no more austerity. Another option is borrowing. In a roundabout way that's what Truss attempted and the markets spewed up all over it. Or issue currency? Highly inflationary. Tax & spend budgeting is the choice. But at least it comes with a coherent prospectus of large scale investment and a long term plan to make efficiency savings and improve productivity. The one big leap of faith is the message that it's a 10 year project. It will fall flat if they don't win another term, because there's a lot of tax rises that the Tories can build an election campaign around. People are going to have to choose between sticking with a project or just allowing the Tories to come back in for another era of decline. You’re saying it like the tories won’t be straight back in? It’s nothing short of a miracle labour winning an election. It hardly happens and they had to basically become tories to get elected let’s be honest. They still get called socialists by the right wing press though and England doesn’t like Labour in all honesty. England is Tory. Next election Labour oot and round we go again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 1 minute ago, jack D and coke said: You’re saying it like the tories won’t be straight back in? It’s nothing short of a miracle labour winning an election. It hardly happens and they had to basically become tories to get elected let’s be honest. They still get called socialists by the right wing press though and England doesn’t like Labour in all honesty. England is Tory. Next election Labour oot and round we go again. It was a very unusual election result. An enormous majority but with a relatively normal vote share. A lot of seats win by virtue of the Tory vote being hived off to Reform or Lib Dem. Even the Lib Dems ended up with a huge number of seats compared to vote share. Incredibly, the Tories did quite well by that measure. The next election might be the most historic one seen if Reform makes further inroads into vote share currently with Labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section Q Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 Both main parties have morphed into the same side show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 6 minutes ago, Section Q said: Both main parties have morphed into the same side show. Absolutely, and by giving us a vote it makes it look like we have a choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 2 hours ago, jack D and coke said: Hospitality sector saying this will cause loads of closures and pay offs. Nice work Reeves squeezing an already struggling sector. Reeves voice man…. There’s a tone there that makes my skin crawl. A wrongun. 1 hour ago, jack D and coke said: Had a guy on radio 2 other day from Scottish hotels and hospitality or whatever it was and he was dreading it saying their margins are already right on the edge. Said a lot will see this as the end. But it wiz the toaries fault ken. The hospitality sector can away and fling shyte at the moon, been ripping the pish since covid, the mark ups they put on food and drink is (should be) criminal! Cocks the lot of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 Just now, Konrad von Carstein said: The hospitality sector can away and fling shyte at the moon, been ripping the pish since covid, the mark ups they put on food and drink is (should be) criminal! Cocks the lot of them. Was talking more about small hotels and restaurants not big chains. It’s their utility bills that have made them inflate prices to this level and they’re no in bigger trouble from this scum Labour govt. Scotland produces more energy than we could ever use (we’d even have to sell it we produce that much) and we have the most expensive energy bills in the WORLD!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 Farmers voting for then being ruined by Brexit = "We knew what we were voting for" Farmers having to pay inheritance tax = "HOW DARE YOU WE ARE ALL GOING TO BE RUINED" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 11 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said: The hospitality sector can away and fling shyte at the moon, been ripping the pish since covid, the mark ups they put on food and drink is (should be) criminal! Cocks the lot of them. I don't disbelieve you and what you propose may well have some basis in truth. Maybe you could provide some examples of this, what with having done an audit of the accounts of a representative cross section of the hospitality sector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 1 minute ago, Victorian said: I don't disbelieve you and what you propose may well have some basis in truth. Maybe you could provide some examples of this, what with having done an audit of the accounts of a representative cross section of the hospitality sector. Please go & be condescending elsewhere, there's a good lad...Hospitality are ripping the pish, 24/7/365 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 Just now, Konrad von Carstein said: Please go & be condescending elsewhere, there's a good lad...Hospitality are ripping the pish, 24/7/365 No examples or evidence forthcoming then. You say it's condescending. I say you're being condescending on others to simply adopt your assertion at face value without any supporting basis. In other words, you've said something that you can't back up. If it's an opinion then you're more than entitled to have one. But it has very limited weight unless you demonstrate some examples. Hoaspitality rips ra piss ken. What do you mean? The retail price of what you pay? That does not demonstrate the ripping of piss in terms of mark up, margin or profitability. You need to possess the full details of a hospitality outlet's fixed cost base, purchase costs and overheads in order to begin to understand it's margins and profitability. It's repayment of loans, it's rent, it's rates, the cost of wares and raw materials, it's staffing costs, energy costs. Turnover for show, profitability for dough. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 When did these Labour mugs start with this “our country” shite?? Everytime they open their gubs now it’s “our country” **** off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 2 minutes ago, Victorian said: No examples or evidence forthcoming then. You say it's condescending. I say you're being condescending on others to simply adopt your assertion at face value without any supporting basis. In other words, you've said something that you can't back up. If it's an opinion then you're more than entitled to have one. But it has very limited weight unless you demonstrate some examples. Hoaspitality rips ra piss ken. What do you mean? The retail price of what you pay? That does not demonstrate the ripping of piss in terms of mark up, margin or profitability. You need to possess the full details of a hospitality outlet's fixed cost base, purchase costs and overheads in order to begin to understand it's margins and profitability. It's repayment of loans, it's rent, it's rates, the cost of wares and raw materials, it's staffing costs, energy costs. Turnover for show, profitability for dough. 👍 You really do take yourself very seriously on here eh? And yes you are, tediously, condescending on here a lot of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 1 minute ago, Konrad von Carstein said: You really do take yourself very seriously on here eh? And yes you are, tediously, condescending on here a lot of the time. Not at all. I understand. You've been called put for saying something quite ignorant and you don't like it. Only option is to fall back on the default defence that the other guy is condescending. Good lad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 1 minute ago, Victorian said: Not at all. I understand. You've been called put for saying something quite ignorant and you don't like it. Only option is to fall back on the default defence that the other guy is condescending. Good lad. Oh mate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 The hospitality sector are a bunch of stroppy wanks and deserve a good ****ing kicking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 31 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said: Oh mate... No offence of course. 😳👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 Let's all get really edgy and give a sector of the economy a good kicking. Let all the businesses who we deem too expensive shrivel and die. Let's just continue with a smaller number of competitors in the sector. That'll lead to cheaper prices. Right? RIGHT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 56 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said: You really do take yourself very seriously on here eh? And yes you are, tediously, condescending on here a lot of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLobster Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 Labour/Tories, two cheeks of the same arse. Unionists are all the same, they've no interest in Scotland other than what they can strip from us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 1 hour ago, Victorian said: I don't disbelieve you and what you propose may well have some basis in truth. Maybe you could provide some examples of this, what with having done an audit of the accounts of a representative cross section of the hospitality sector. Hospitality is dead, retail is dead, glasgow is dead, drug use is spiraling, Dundee is dead, aberdeen is dead, ayrshire is dead. Birth rates are dropping. Mental health issues out of control. Why? Nobody has any money to do anything anymore. Its plucked out our pockets before you can spend it, so the Govt can spend it in an effort to give you more money to spend on retail and leisure. People need more money in their pockets to spend. So either given them more, or take less. We need a "boom" not managed decline. Increase oil and gas, push ahead with fracking, cap transaction charges, cap credit card interest, cap loan interest . Stop people being skint even though they make decent money. Scrap overseas aid, scrap overseas climate cash- they are luxuries we cannot afford. Rejoin the single market Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japan Jambo Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 2 hours ago, jack D and coke said: Typical Labour. Promise all sorts of pish then sucker punch you when you’re not looking. I still can’t believe their first attack was on pensioners. Ffs Wronguns to a man. Yup straight back to "You can't trust Labour on tax", what a pack of lies they told, so much for a new way of doing politics! 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 3 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: Hospitality is dead, retail is dead, glasgow is dead, drug use is spiraling, Dundee is dead, aberdeen is dead, ayrshire is dead. Birth rates are dropping. Mental health issues out of control. Why? Nobody has any money to do anything anymore. Its plucked out our pockets before you can spend it, so the Govt can spend it in an effort to give you more money to spend on retail and leisure. People need more money in their pockets to spend. So either given them more, or take less. We need a "boom" not managed decline. Increase oil and gas, push ahead with fracking, cap transaction charges, cap credit card interest, cap loan interest . Stop people being skint even though they make decent money. Scrap overseas aid, scrap overseas climate cash- they are luxuries we cannot afford. Rejoin the single market Agree to an extent. Retail and hospitality might not be dead as such but certainly shrinking sectors. Often very expensive and, contrary to what some would argue, more expensive than they would hope, choose or prefer to be. Like most areas of the economy, everything tends to be strictly governed by the simple principles of supply & demand. Competition in the marketplace regulates price. Unfortunately most small businesses are also faced with the new reality of the costs they have in their attempts to be viable. As well as natural competition for market share, they also have to compete for the supply of labour. It costs a hell of a lot of money to operate a small business in a city centre like Edinburgh these days. Some people actually argue that the economic demand in the hospitality sector is very resilient. That even when disposable incomes are squeezed, people will tend to continue going out. I think inevitably people eventually end up going out slightly less often, or make different spending choices. But it will get much, much worse if the sector suffers wholesale closures. Reduced supply = increased demand on remaining supply = increased prices. There's no avoiding it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 34 minutes ago, Victorian said: Let's all get really edgy and give a sector of the economy a good kicking. Let all the businesses who we deem too expensive shrivel and die. Let's just continue with a smaller number of competitors in the sector. That'll lead to cheaper prices. Right? RIGHT? How very right wing of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 1 hour ago, il Duce McTarkin said: The hospitality sector are a bunch of stroppy wanks and deserve a good ****ing kicking. We need more Il Duce postings of this nature IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 45 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: Hospitality is dead, retail is dead, glasgow is dead, drug use is spiraling, Dundee is dead, aberdeen is dead, ayrshire is dead. Birth rates are dropping. Mental health issues out of control. Why? Nobody has any money to do anything anymore. Its plucked out our pockets before you can spend it, so the Govt can spend it in an effort to give you more money to spend on retail and leisure. People need more money in their pockets to spend. So either given them more, or take less. We need a "boom" not managed decline. Increase oil and gas, push ahead with fracking, cap transaction charges, cap credit card interest, cap loan interest . Stop people being skint even though they make decent money. Scrap overseas aid, scrap overseas climate cash- they are luxuries we cannot afford. Rejoin the single market Agree with some of that but I’d put defence spending back to 2% of GDP. We are on 2.5% now and rising. That half a percent equates to £16B. We are legally obliged to spend 2% as a member of NATO. That’s enough ! £16B would go a long way ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 1 hour ago, doctor jambo said: Hospitality is dead, retail is dead, glasgow is dead, drug use is spiraling, Dundee is dead, aberdeen is dead, ayrshire is dead. Birth rates are dropping. Mental health issues out of control. Why? Nobody has any money to do anything anymore. Its plucked out our pockets before you can spend it, so the Govt can spend it in an effort to give you more money to spend on retail and leisure. People need more money in their pockets to spend. So either given them more, or take less. We need a "boom" not managed decline. Increase oil and gas, push ahead with fracking, cap transaction charges, cap credit card interest, cap loan interest . Stop people being skint even though they make decent money. Scrap overseas aid, scrap overseas climate cash- they are luxuries we cannot afford. Rejoin the single market I'm no economist but yip, seems like a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted October 31, 2024 Author Share Posted October 31, 2024 38 minutes ago, Victorian said: Agree to an extent. Retail and hospitality might not be dead as such but certainly shrinking sectors. Often very expensive and, contrary to what some would argue, more expensive than they would hope, choose or prefer to be. Like most areas of the economy, everything tends to be strictly governed by the simple principles of supply & demand. Competition in the marketplace regulates price. Unfortunately most small businesses are also faced with the new reality of the costs they have in their attempts to be viable. As well as natural competition for market share, they also have to compete for the supply of labour. It costs a hell of a lot of money to operate a small business in a city centre like Edinburgh these days. Some people actually argue that the economic demand in the hospitality sector is very resilient. That even when disposable incomes are squeezed, people will tend to continue going out. I think inevitably people eventually end up going out slightly less often, or make different spending choices. But it will get much, much worse if the sector suffers wholesale closures. Reduced supply = increased demand on remaining supply = increased prices. There's no avoiding it. People will buy from Amazon and the like rather than going to physical shops. People will get takeaway food and booze from the off-licence rather than going out. I'm not sure much of the bricks and mortar retail and hospitality sector can compete and survive. And I'm not sure that's a Labour thing or a Tory thing; it just seems to be the way the world is going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 22 minutes ago, Boab said: Agree with some of that but I’d put defence spending back to 2% of GDP. We are on 2.5% now and rising. That half a percent equates to £16B. We are legally obliged to spend 2% as a member of NATO. That’s enough ! £16B would go a long way ! Scrap the House of Lords or put the freeloaders on minimum wage with no expenses or free food and drink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 3 minutes ago, Ulysses said: People will buy from Amazon and the like rather than going to physical shops. People will get takeaway food and booze from the off-licence rather than going out. I'm not sure much of the bricks and mortar retail and hospitality sector can compete and survive. And I'm not sure that's a Labour thing or a Tory thing; it just seems to be the way the world is going. Undoubtedly. Bricks & mortar retail vs Internet shopping is a hopeless mismatch. There's no competing on price point against a competitor that has such an advantage on overheads. It's not completely screwed yet because there's a surprising amount of people who still prefer to shop somewhere they can see stuff in person. For some things, some people still prefer a local point of contact for aftercare. Some even just prefer to support local business whenever possible. I've see this first hand, it's quite incredible the virtually non-existent margins that some things are sold at on the Internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 1 hour ago, doctor jambo said: Hospitality is dead, retail is dead, glasgow is dead, drug use is spiraling, Dundee is dead, aberdeen is dead, ayrshire is dead. Birth rates are dropping. Mental health issues out of control. Why? Nobody has any money to do anything anymore. Its plucked out our pockets before you can spend it, so the Govt can spend it in an effort to give you more money to spend on retail and leisure. People need more money in their pockets to spend. So either given them more, or take less. We need a "boom" not managed decline. Increase oil and gas, push ahead with fracking, cap transaction charges, cap credit card interest, cap loan interest . Stop people being skint even though they make decent money. Scrap overseas aid, scrap overseas climate cash- they are luxuries we cannot afford. Rejoin the single market Push ahead with fracking? Na . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 7 minutes ago, lou said: Scrap the House of Lords or put the freeloaders on minimum wage with no expenses or free food and drink Oh no no no. Things that have been for centuries for these pricks to become peers and lords and royalty must never EVER change I mean we’re British after all and they’re great British things🇬🇧🇬🇧 Give the royals a rise ffs there’s a cost of living crisis going on!! All the fecking plebs though you can deal with whatever the world throws at you and just ****ing deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 1 minute ago, jack D and coke said: Oh no no no. Things that have been for centuries for these pricks to become peers and lords and royalty must never EVER change I mean we’re British after all and they’re great British things🇬🇧🇬🇧 Give the royals a rise ffs there’s a cost of living crisis going on!! All the fecking plebs though you can deal with whatever the world throws at you and just ****ing deal with it. Theres only one way to rid yourself of all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted October 31, 2024 Author Share Posted October 31, 2024 21 minutes ago, Victorian said: Undoubtedly. Bricks & mortar retail vs Internet shopping is a hopeless mismatch. There's no competing on price point against a competitor that has such an advantage on overheads. It's not completely screwed yet because there's a surprising amount of people who still prefer to shop somewhere they can see stuff in person. For some things, some people still prefer a local point of contact for aftercare. Some even just prefer to support local business whenever possible. I've see this first hand, it's quite incredible the virtually non-existent margins that some things are sold at on the Internet. Not internet shopping, but a similar theme here when Strickland Propane can't compete with Mega Lo Mart and has to fire Hank Hill to save money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 Folk are not skint because "the Government takes too much tax" Folk are skint because of unregulated capitalist greed. Rents are out of control. Energy prices are out of control. Fuel prices are out of control. Supermarkets are acting like Cartels. Insurance companies are taking the piss. Rail and water companies are charging their customers a fortune, giving it all to shareholders and refusing to invest in the actual services, which are at failure point. And so on. And so on. The people of this nation are being bled white by pure greed. That's where the problem is. Cutting tax "to give people more money back" won't do shite. Prices will continue to rise and all that extra money will be trousered by the big business barons. Prices need to be capped and businesses need to be tightly regulated. We're in the insane situation where the Government is taking your taxes and giving it to various greedy capitalist barons...we're actually subsidising them because their prices have been allowed to get so high that nobody can afford even the basics any more. Housing benefit is nothing more or less than public money being given to greedy Landlords. Tax credits are nothing more or less than public money being used to subsidise business running costs because wages are not enough to afford to live. It's mental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 41 minutes ago, Cade said: Folk are not skint because "the Government takes too much tax" Folk are skint because of unregulated capitalist greed. Rents are out of control. Energy prices are out of control. Fuel prices are out of control. Supermarkets are acting like Cartels. Insurance companies are taking the piss. Rail and water companies are charging their customers a fortune, giving it all to shareholders and refusing to invest in the actual services, which are at failure point. And so on. And so on. The people of this nation are being bled white by pure greed. That's where the problem is. Cutting tax "to give people more money back" won't do shite. Prices will continue to rise and all that extra money will be trousered by the big business barons. Prices need to be capped and businesses need to be tightly regulated. We're in the insane situation where the Government is taking your taxes and giving it to various greedy capitalist barons...we're actually subsidising them because their prices have been allowed to get so high that nobody can afford even the basics any more. Housing benefit is nothing more or less than public money being given to greedy Landlords. Tax credits are nothing more or less than public money being used to subsidise business running costs because wages are not enough to afford to live. It's mental. Now we're talking. These are very good examples of any piss ripping that's going on in the economy. In the main it's certainly not small business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 57 minutes ago, Cade said: Folk are not skint because "the Government takes too much tax" Folk are skint because of unregulated capitalist greed. Rents are out of control. Energy prices are out of control. Fuel prices are out of control. Supermarkets are acting like Cartels. Insurance companies are taking the piss. Rail and water companies are charging their customers a fortune, giving it all to shareholders and refusing to invest in the actual services, which are at failure point. And so on. And so on. The people of this nation are being bled white by pure greed. That's where the problem is. Cutting tax "to give people more money back" won't do shite. Prices will continue to rise and all that extra money will be trousered by the big business barons. Prices need to be capped and businesses need to be tightly regulated. We're in the insane situation where the Government is taking your taxes and giving it to various greedy capitalist barons...we're actually subsidising them because their prices have been allowed to get so high that nobody can afford even the basics any more. Housing benefit is nothing more or less than public money being given to greedy Landlords. Tax credits are nothing more or less than public money being used to subsidise business running costs because wages are not enough to afford to live. It's mental. That's a great post 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknownuser Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 1 hour ago, Cade said: Folk are not skint because "the Government takes too much tax" Folk are skint because of unregulated capitalist greed. Rents are out of control. Energy prices are out of control. Fuel prices are out of control. Supermarkets are acting like Cartels. Insurance companies are taking the piss. Rail and water companies are charging their customers a fortune, giving it all to shareholders and refusing to invest in the actual services, which are at failure point. And so on. And so on. The people of this nation are being bled white by pure greed. That's where the problem is. Cutting tax "to give people more money back" won't do shite. Prices will continue to rise and all that extra money will be trousered by the big business barons. Prices need to be capped and businesses need to be tightly regulated. We're in the insane situation where the Government is taking your taxes and giving it to various greedy capitalist barons...we're actually subsidising them because their prices have been allowed to get so high that nobody can afford even the basics any more. Housing benefit is nothing more or less than public money being given to greedy Landlords. Tax credits are nothing more or less than public money being used to subsidise business running costs because wages are not enough to afford to live. It's mental. I try to remember what governments are meant to be. I think of Asterix's wee village growing and needing a group to sort stuff for the people. They'll look after diplomacy, utilities, transport, defence, all the stuff the community needs. They'll have to levy taxes to pay for it all of course. But the central reason for their existence is to put their human beings' interests first. People obviously disagree on the details, so we have elections. All this is pretty obvious really, so how have we got to the stage where the people are an afterthought? Why is everything we need so underfunded that it's crumbling? Westminster's forgotten who it's there for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 3 hours ago, Boab said: Agree with some of that but I’d put defence spending back to 2% of GDP. We are on 2.5% now and rising. That half a percent equates to £16B. We are legally obliged to spend 2% as a member of NATO. That’s enough ! £16B would go a long way ! Only thing is - we make huge money and big salaries selling weapons. Ukraine is just expensive advertising, we spend , then others buy. but yes I’d return to 2% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 Haven't heard much about the effect of the NI rise on public sector employers. Trying to fix the NHS by hitting them with more NI on its thousands of employees... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 And the gilt strike begins. Not quite on Trussian stupidity levels but fiddling borrowing rules is still that - a fiddle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 14 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: And the gilt strike begins. Not quite on Trussian stupidity levels but fiddling borrowing rules is still that - a fiddle. Is it fiddling to change the rules that are in effect self imposed as any current government as a political choice? Not too many people will care, notice or understand dry fiscal mumbo-jumbo. They do care about better funded and upgraded services from imvestment Anyway, the IMF seems to have endorsed the borrowing to invest, as well as the long term plan to service the debts through the tax shake-up. And the markets haven't yet shown any indication that gilts will be difficult or more expensive to sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 8 minutes ago, Victorian said: Is it fiddling to change the rules that are in effect self imposed as any current government as a political choice? Not too many people will care, notice or understand dry fiscal mumbo-jumbo. They do care about better funded and upgraded services from imvestment Anyway, the IMF seems to have endorsed the borrowing to invest, as well as the long term plan to service the debts through the tax shake-up. And the markets haven't yet shown any indication that gilts will be difficult or more expensive to sell. The "mumbo jumbo" makes government borrowing more expensive. That means interest rates for everyone else are more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 3 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: The "mumbo jumbo" makes government borrowing more expensive. That means interest rates for everyone else are more expensive. Yes. I don't think I've seen anything to suggest borrowing costs are markedly that more expensive. About a tenth of a percent I believe. Not a markets convulsion post-Truss budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 It wiz the toaries likes Then her stupit coupon… That voice man…🥴😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 15 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: Well he certainly wasn’t mincing his words !! 😂😂😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Well he certainly wasn’t mincing his words !! 😂😂😎 Was reminding me of the Harry Enfield character Stanleeee Excuse me sport I couldn’t help noticing but I appear to be considerably richer than yow 🤣🤣 But aye nae messing haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: Was reminding me of the Harry Enfield character Stanleeee Excuse me sport I couldn’t help noticing but I appear to be considerably richer than yow 🤣🤣 But aye nae messing haha 😂😂😂👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 46 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: Sounds like a w*nker tbh. "anti white *******"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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