Is Ginnelly the new Djoum when it comes to slagging?

[upgotheheads]

Different kinds of players I know - Ginnelly the mercurial winger and Djoum the solid defensive midfielder but anyway:

 

Arnaud Djoum was, in my opinion, one of the best players we've had at Tynecastle in the past 20 years, his job was to win the ball then not lose it and move it on to attacking players. He did that week in and week out  and yet every week we had posters on here slagging him for the daftest reasons.

Josh Ginnelly is a completely different type of player I agree, his job is to take defenders on and get the ball into the box, and sometimes to use his pace and undoubted skill to attack the box through the middle. It's high risk and often doesn't work, but I watched Neil McCann doing the same stuff and being succesful one game in three, yet nobody slagged him for inconsistency. Now the Boo Boys seem to have found a new target. You sure as hell need a thick skin to be a player at Tynecastle if some of the fans take against you.

[heartsfc_fan]

I don't remember Djoum getting that much stick. And he was actually half decent 🙂

 

[Weakened Offender]

Djoum could play when he gave a ****. He did not always give a **** though. 

[Bull's-eye]

Some "supporters" need someone or something to slag off, whether it be a player or the club shop shop. It's always been this way.

Old firm levels of expectation in my opinion.

 

You have to feel for these types because you can tell they get zero enjoyment out of being a supporter. 

[AlimOzturk]

Ginnelly is the typical winger.  Will play out his skin one week then do bother for the next couple of games. He was brilliant again Dundee U 

 

Very rare to get a winger like Barry Mackay who will perform week in week out. But he isn’t your typical wing man. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by AlimOzturk

[luckydug]

It seems some fans just have to have someone to pick on. 

They've nearly all had the 'treatment' at times Halliday, Boyce, Sibbick, GMS,even Halkett last season now Ginnelly getting stick from the very people who were desperate for him to get a permanent deal. 

A bit of support and patience wouldn't go amiss imo. 

[Special Agent Dale Cooper]

23 minutes ago, heartsfc_fan said:

I don't remember Djoum getting that much stick. And he was actually half decent 🙂

 

Djoum got a lot of stick. Pretty much weekly for the last couple of years.

 

Most of it unjustified.

[tian447]

There are a small minority of our support that do not like anything other than the guid young Scottish laddies playing. 

 

Our main boo boys over the years seem to have had one wee thing in common, but if you ever try and mention something like that, people rush to jump down your throat and claim that they have never, ever, ever heard anything of that type being shouted by anyone at the football, ever. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by tian447

[Sooperstar]

32 minutes ago, heartsfc_fan said:

I don't remember Djoum getting that much stick. And he was actually half decent 🙂

 

He definitely did.

[Paris 84]

I don’t slag off Ginnelly or any other player to be honest. However, although there seems to be a real sense of togetherness within the squad, a true one for all and all for one; I do get the feeling that Ginnelly is a bit of an outlier in that respect. I might be wrong but I get the impression he plays for Josh Ginnelly first and the team second. You just know that when he gets into position on the edge of the box nine times out of ten he’s looking to get it inside a bit from the defender and hit a shot. There maybe other options for him but you just know he’s thinking and preparing to have a shot. He’s the archetypal ‘heid doon merchant’,the complete opposite of Barrie McKay. 
 

If my memory serves me well, in the last Scottish Cup Final we played against Celtic at 3-3 and only minutes to go in extra time he had the chance to play in Naismith straight in one on one on the goalie and chose to shoot from a ridiculous distance. If you hear rumblings in the crowd it’s probably (IMO) because the fans know that he’s just taken the wrong option once again. 
 

He’s going to be one of those players who gets better in some peoples eyes the less he plays, as when he plays regularly you get annoyed at his lack of awareness around about him. 
 

 

[luckydug]

12 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

Some "supporters" need someone or something to slag off, whether it be a player or the club shop shop. It's always been this way.

Old firm levels of expectation in my opinion.

 

You have to feel for these types because you can tell they get zero enjoyment out of being a supporter. 

I've had a bit of moan about one or two off the field things. 

On the field though we have been well entertained and even some of our more erratic performers would walk into any non OF team in the league. 

For Hearts fans this is the good times even if we don't win the cup we have our European adventure to look forward to. 

If we do win the cup we'll be so high we won't even need a plane to fly to Europe 😁

[JimmyCant]

3 minutes ago, Special Agent Dale Cooper said:

Djoum got a lot of stick. Pretty much weekly for the last couple of years.

 

Most of it unjustified.

Djoum did himself no favours with the fan base by announcing he wanted to leave for a bigger/better club not long after he got here. No problem with players who want to better themselves but You talk like that early doors and you better be a good player busting a gut every week when you are here.

 

To be fair his first season was outstanding. He played quite high up then. After that, injuries, change of role, team not doing so well, manager being shite, all impacted him. 
 

Guy could have been a legend. As it stands I barely give him a second thought. He’d be superb in the current team I’ll concede that

[jack D and coke]

43 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

Different kinds of players I know - Ginnelly the mercurial winger and Djoum the solid defensive midfielder but anyway:

 

Arnaud Djoum was, in my opinion, one of the best players we've had at Tynecastle in the past 20 years, his job was to win the ball then not lose it and move it on to attacking players. He did that week in and week out  and yet every week we had posters on here slagging him for the daftest reasons.

Josh Ginnelly is a completely different type of player I agree, his job is to take defenders on and get the ball into the box, and sometimes to use his pace and undoubted skill to attack the box through the middle. It's high risk and often doesn't work, but I watched Neil McCann doing the same stuff and being succesful one game in three, yet nobody slagged him for inconsistency. Now the Boo Boys seem to have found a new target. You sure as hell need a thick skin to be a player at Tynecastle if some of the fans take against you.

We have some mentally challenged fans. I was reading one of the hearts Facebook pages last night and “hearts fans” were claiming to hate Liam Boyce cos he’s utter shite, won’t score again, needs 40 chances per goal and on and on it went. Mind blowing stuff and I’d love to have used much stronger language tbh. 
Severe head injuries some of these ***** have. 

[Baxfee]

Djoum was a class act - Ginnelly isn’t. I keep hearing about G’s electrifying speed but I’ve yet to see it. He can do things well - second half agst Dundee Utd is a good example. However, it’s few and far between. Most games he’s offside x5; touch is garbage; doesn’t read play or passes from his teammates; and generally is really ineffective. We need better 

[kila]

The thing with Gino is he runs faster than he can think at times and his brain can't keep up   His crossing on the whole is pretty poor too, maybe 1 in 6 are any good.

 

A frustrating player that if it wasn't for his pace wouldn't offer much else. A Woodburn with fast legs?

 

[daftie]

I’ve always been a big fan of Josh. When he first came in, I thought he was so exciting, but I prefer him playing through the middle. When he is out wide his crossing can be pretty poor. 

 

For me his decision making hasn’t gotten any better. He frustrates the living daylights out of me, as somebody with his pace can be a total game changer. I would definitely keep Josh as a rotational/backup but peoples expectations are a bit unrealistic. We are not going to have a squad of 20-25 world beaters. 
 

Josh reminds me of Martin Boyle. If you remember Boyle was rapid but didn’t score that much. He then improved greatly and started scoring goals. Whether Josh can do the same who knows, but he definitely has the tools to do so. 

[King prawn]

I just don’t think Ginnelly is a very good player - Djoum on the other hand was a good player who was often played in a different position every week. 

[No Idle Talk]

Josh Ginnelly should not be mentioned in the same breath as Neil McCann. He is nowhere near the player McCann was. So let's put that to bed straight away. 

 

I did not see yesterday's match. Since this thread exists, I assume Ginnelly had a poor game? 

 

Personally I have been feeling for a while now that Ginnelly isn't very good. That's not criticism for the sake of criticism. That is my honest opinion. His pace and athleticism are excellent. In some matches those attributes will be enough for him to do well.

 

With the ball at his feet he is just not a player. You can see it so clearly when he plays out wide. He literally tries the same move every single time he takes a man on. It goes like this...... He slows to a standstill with the ball at his feet and faces up to the full back. He then knocks the ball beyond the full back and towards the byline. He tries to out sprint the full back and if he gets to the ball first he tries to put a cross in(his crossing is inconsistent too). He tries this same move time after time. The guy can't dribble. If I have picked up on this, you can bet opposing managers and full backs know what's coming too. The phrase 'one trick pony' springs to mind. 

 

He seems like a good lad and I really want him to do well at Hearts. But honestly I don't see it happening. Ginnelly is one of the few players in the squad who I would be looking to move on and replace in the summer. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by No Idle Talk

[Harry Potter]

His goal against united was pure pace, hes very fast, need that in the final,  

[Kirky Jambo]

Ginelly is a good option from the bench, as the 2020 cup final proved and also Dundee Utd at Tannadice in the 2-0 game. 
 

His pace gives a different option and defenders can struggle to adapt. 
 

A little inconsistent, like many wingers (indeed as Alim mentions above, it isn’t common to have someone performing at Barrie McKay’s level week in week out).

 

wouldn’t be averse to having both Ginelly and Walker as squad players next season

[Rudy T]

You simply can’t compare the two one was a very good player the other isn’t.

 

I think the OPs point is around the boo boys and it’s a valid point but I’ve long since said this is an issue at Hearts. We sign players who simply cannot cope with the demands of playing in front of the Tynecastle crowd. Especially English players who’ve come from clubs who are happy to yo-yo around league one/championship level. They arrive here and suddenly realise a half decent performance and a draw doesn’t cut it against most teams. Gino is just the latest to join the long list of players who won’t make it here but will return to there previous league and do ok again.

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, upgotheheads said:

Different kinds of players I know - Ginnelly the mercurial winger and Djoum the solid defensive midfielder but anyway:

 

Arnaud Djoum was, in my opinion, one of the best players we've had at Tynecastle in the past 20 years, his job was to win the ball then not lose it and move it on to attacking players. He did that week in and week out  and yet every week we had posters on here slagging him for the daftest reasons.

Josh Ginnelly is a completely different type of player I agree, his job is to take defenders on and get the ball into the box, and sometimes to use his pace and undoubted skill to attack the box through the middle. It's high risk and often doesn't work, but I watched Neil McCann doing the same stuff and being succesful one game in three, yet nobody slagged him for inconsistency. Now the Boo Boys seem to have found a new target. You sure as hell need a thick skin to be a player at Tynecastle if some of the fans take against you.

Djoum was a class above Ginelly as a footballer.  Pointless comparing them. 

[soonbe110]

38 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

We have some mentally challenged fans. I was reading one of the hearts Facebook pages last night and “hearts fans” were claiming to hate Liam Boyce cos he’s utter shite, won’t score again, needs 40 chances per goal and on and on it went. Mind blowing stuff and I’d love to have used much stronger language tbh. 
Severe head injuries some of these ***** have. 

Yep, maybe they should read the article about McKay in todays papers. ‘I didn’t realise Boyce was such a good player until I played with him’ 

[soonbe110]

38 minutes ago, Baxfee said:

Djoum was a class act - Ginnelly isn’t. I keep hearing about G’s electrifying speed but I’ve yet to see it. He can do things well - second half agst Dundee Utd is a good example. However, it’s few and far between. Most games he’s offside x5; touch is garbage; doesn’t read play or passes from his teammates; and generally is really ineffective. We need better 

All this pace yet he rarely, if ever, goes past the full-back. 

[soonbe110]

6 minutes ago, Kirky Jambo said:

Ginelly is a good option from the bench, as the 2020 cup final proved and also Dundee Utd at Tannadice in the 2-0 game. 
 

His pace gives a different option and defenders can struggle to adapt. 
 

A little inconsistent, like many wingers (indeed as Alim mentions above, it isn’t common to have someone performing at Barrie McKay’s level week in week out).

 

wouldn’t be averse to having both Ginelly and Walker as squad players next season

He should have won the 2020 cup final for us but a rush of blood, similar to one he had yesterday, put paid to that. Nowhere near good enough for where we think we are headed. 

[tcjambo]

I agree Djoum was one of the best we have had in the last 20 years - took abuse about being lazy but it was just the usual headless chickens that thought that.

 

Ginelly has great games - SC final 2020 was one - he basically turned it around for us. He has others when little works for him. However, he has real pace and IMO  he is well worth keeping. Yesterday, he had a 6 or 7 out of 10 performance. Listening to some people you would think he was shite yesterday. Yesterday, it was Boyce that fell into that category.

[Ccjambo1874]

I thought he was okay yesterday bar the end product but he is in the right positions. Fwiw County defended crosses extremely well and their left back had a solid match. The same can't be said for GMS who was anonymous. It gets overlooked but he drew 2 maybe 3 yellows from the county team yesterday.

 

As mentioned previously he needs a consistent run which I hope he gets til the end of the league matches.

 

I feel he'd benefit playing in the 4 2 3 1 with mckay and Boyce behind simms personally as simms is a handful and would occupy their defence more to allow him that much more space. 

 

[151]

To be fair it's only players that don't always seem to give their all that tend to get it badly. 

 

If fans can see the effort levels are there then the support is usually given.

 

That's what Djoum and Ginelly have in common.

 

There has been plenty of "good scottish laddies" that have had plenty stick for this reason also regardless of what agenda some other posters are implying.

 

Then there's the players that just should never have signed or played for Hearts ie. Whelan, Oshaniwa, Mole, Reilly, Sammon, Perreira etc because they were not of Hearts quality.

 

If you pay good money to follow and support a club you expect standards and it tends to be the players that don't come up with the goods when they have the chance that get pelters. 

 

It's when folk start tearing into players like Boyce that it becomes silly.

[Herbert.]

I watched yesterday amd gino never done anything to draw the amount of criticism he's received. I think Woodburn contributes nothing to the team at all but escapes criticism, Boyce missed 2 sitters and somehow Gino is still the fall guy.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

As reaches go, this one takes the biscuit. Djoum was quality and part of our best XI when he was here. Gino is a squad player at best and will never be a regular.

[jack D and coke]

23 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

All this pace yet he rarely, if ever, goes past the full-back. 

I feel with Ginnely is he doesn’t really

commit. He fakes to go then fakes to go again. When you play on the wing youre not always going to be on it but you have to make decisions and really commit to it. It won’t always come off either but he could be more effective for us I reckon.
Mibbe with a wee run in the team. 

[upgotheheads]

27 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Djoum was a class above Ginelly as a footballer.  Pointless comparing them. 

 

If you read the original post again you will notice that I wasn't comparing them as players but as targets for unreasonable abuse.

 

22 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

He should have won the 2020 cup final for us but a rush of blood, similar to one he had yesterday, put paid to that. Nowhere near good enough for where we think we are headed. 

 

We lost the cup because of a poor penalty from one of the best players on the field.

[4marsbars]

1 hour ago, Weakened Offender said:

Djoum could play when he gave a ****. He did not always give a **** though. 

 

Complete and utter nonsense.

 

Every person's performance at any task varies. Djoum just the same. 

 

Djoum gave far more than many fans deserved. Guy who sits near me was constantly on his back. I can't think why.

[upgotheheads]

3 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

As reaches go, this one takes the biscuit. Djoum was quality and part of our best XI when he was here. Gino is a squad player at best and will never be a regular.

I was comparing the abuse that they got and that was the point I was making. Djoum still got abuse even although he was often our best player. It doesn't matter how well Ginnelly does or doesn't play he's going to get abuse  from some supporters.

[upgotheheads]

2 minutes ago, 4marsbars said:

 

Complete and utter nonsense.

 

Every person's performance at any task varies. Djoum just the same. 

 

Djoum gave far more than many fans deserved. Guy who sits near me was constantly on his back. I can't think why.

 

Good point.

[Cruyff]

His pace cause problems, it forces defences deeper, it stretches defences. Sometimes he produces **** all, sometimes he's brilliant. It is what it is. Decent enough squad player. Gets some unfair stick. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

14 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

I was comparing the abuse that they got and that was the point I was making. Djoum still got abuse even although he was often our best player. It doesn't matter how well Ginnelly does or doesn't play he's going to get abuse  from some supporters.

Fans will always target players who they feel aren't giving 100%. Equally, when they do improve they are lauded. Stevie Fulton was a great example of that.

[R1874]

Gino worked his balls off yesterday and every week btw

 

 Not afraid of a physical battle either
 

He needs to work on his runs in behind but also relies on service.
 

Great example yesterday when he made a run, Woodburn didn’t play the pass so Gino stops. Then Woodburn plays the ball anyway. Small stuff like that is unfortunate but he need a run of games. Definitely a player there

 

Him Mckay and Simms would be nice to see

[Mr Elwood P]

1 hour ago, King prawn said:

I just don’t think Ginnelly is a very good player - Djoum on the other hand was a good player who was often played in a different position every week. 

Do you think he has potential?

[Absolute Scenes]

Djoum was a very good player but in a very bad team. Evidence was his first season under neilson was player of

the season for us. Then Cathro and levein happened and he was never the same. Ginnelly is in a very good team but isn’t producing enough. Fastest player on the pitch yet slows down every attack,  every time he takes someone on 

[Absolute Scenes]

21 minutes ago, R1874 said:

Gino worked his balls off yesterday and every week btw

 

 Not afraid of a physical battle either
 

He needs to work on his runs in behind but also relies on service.
 

Great example yesterday when he made a run, Woodburn didn’t play the pass so Gino stops. Then Woodburn plays the ball anyway. Small stuff like that is unfortunate but he need a run of games. Definitely a player there

 

Him Mckay and Simms would be nice to see

That’s a fair point regarding Woodburn. I can imagine he must have been frustrated with the quality he was getting from Ben

[Darren]

2 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

You sure as hell need a thick skin to be a player at Tynecastle if some of the fans take against you.

 

Seems to be the colour of skin that's more of a problem for some fans.

[soonbe110]

53 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

If you read the original post again you will notice that I wasn't comparing them as players but as targets for unreasonable abuse.

 

 

We lost the cup because of a poor penalty from one of the best players on the field.

Ginelly should have ensured there was no need for a pen shootout but panicked 

[Bazzas right boot]

38 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

His pace cause problems, it forces defences deeper, it stretches defences. Sometimes he produces **** all, sometimes he's brilliant. It is what it is. Decent enough squad player. Gets some unfair stick. 

Correct. 

52 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

As reaches go, this one takes the biscuit. Djoum was quality and part of our best XI when he was here. Gino is a squad player at best and will never be a regular.

 

Correct 

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Yep, maybe they should read the article about McKay in todays papers. ‘I didn’t realise Boyce was such a good player until I played with him’ 

Boyce also gets mentioned by nearly every opposition manager as a stand out player. 

 

 

1 hour ago, King prawn said:

I just don’t think Ginnelly is a very good player - Djoum on the other hand was a good player who was often played in a different position every week. 

Yip, he's a squad player. 

 

 

 

If this thread is about race then it's a stretch, as guys, like Isma, walker, Halliday, Halkett even Boycey all get it. 

 

Some just need someone to slag. 

Some posters aren't posting unless they are greetin. 

Some grown men aren't enjoying the game unless they are spitting feathers with red faces looking like they are gonna burst. 

 

One idiot next to me used to slag Djoum all the time, was slagging him when he wasn't even playing once, got confused with another player. 

Absolute weapon. 

[Locky]

2 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

Djoum could play when he gave a ****. He did not always give a **** though. 

 

 

Liked Djoum a lot but spent too many games not looking interested and therefore became very frustrating.

 

I think as for Ginnelly, it's become clear with the step up that he's a fairly average player. I think he's definitely a useful player in the squad.

[GavK1012]

2 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

Djoum could play when he gave a ****. He did not always give a **** though. 

This. End of. His attitude was woeful, it wasn't lack of ability, it was a lack of a foot up the arse was the issue. Folk trying to rewrite history time and time again re Djoum, his performances and attitude were pitiful after picking up his shiny medal re African Nations, Mr Magoo could see that...

[queensferryjambo]

Our support have a terrible habit of slagging off players past and present. Some very decent players as well.
 

They also have a terrible habit of bumming up other teams players bang average players i.e. Cummings, Allan, Shankland etc

 

Players must be baffled at how hostile some of our support are towards them. 

 

 

[StirlingJambo]

Our usual system means the wingbacks are meant to be the futherest wide. He’s getting played to far infield at times. Robbie won’t change the system as it’s worked most of the season so he’ll just need accept he’s a bit part player or a plan B.

[kingantti1874]

Ginelly had a good game yesterday as did Ben Woodburn.  We just have some clueless bangers in our support

[Dick Dastardly]

3 hours ago, luckydug said:

It seems some fans just have to have someone to pick on. 

They've nearly all had the 'treatment' at times Halliday, Boyce, Sibbick, GMS,even Halkett last season now Ginnelly getting stick from the very people who were desperate for him to get a permanent deal. 

A bit of support and patience wouldn't go amiss imo. 

Couldn't agree more.