P&O Ferries sack 800 staff via Zoom

[Dennis Denuto]

12 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Always is maybe a slight exaggeration. There was no serious attack on workers rights by Conservatives after WW2 until Thatcher came along. And Labour in the 60s and 70s tried largely unsuccessfully to restrict some union practices as the impact of  industrial unrest had poor Denis Healey flying off to beg the IMF for support for our economy.

 

But of course Labour is generally more pro-worker and Conservative pro - business.  

Being a socialist I've always considered being pro-worker as being pro-business. Your business is your workers.

 

Wouldn't the world be great if business owners realised the true value of employees and we didn't need legislation to protect workers rights..........

[Pans Jambo]

Seems the tories knew about this:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/18/mass-sacking-by-p-and-o-ferries-a-new-low-for-shipping-says-union

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

8 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

Being a socialist I've always considered being pro-worker as being pro-business. Your business is your workers.

 

Wouldn't the world be great if business owners realised the true value of employees and we didn't need legislation to protect workers rights..........

[Lone Striker]

39 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

Being a socialist I've always considered being pro-worker as being pro-business. Your business is your workers.

 

Wouldn't the world be great if business owners realised the true value of employees and we didn't need legislation to protect workers rights..........

Very good post and sentiment,  DD       Still too many ruthless chancers only interested in making a fast buck at the expense of ordinary hard-working folk.

[micole]

I have had to make people redundant when I worked as a manager. It is not a pleasant experience however the company I worked for done everything by the book even gave enhanced payments ect. This by no means detracts from the process and impact to individuals concerned but, unfortunately redundancy is something that happens in business. The way P&O have gone about this is shameful, unprofessional and downright criminal IMO. Hopefully they will be made to pay for this....😡😡

[Francis Albert]

56 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

Being a socialist I've always considered being pro-worker as being pro-business. Your business is your workers.

 

Wouldn't the world be great if business owners realised the true value of employees and we didn't need legislation to protect workers rights..........

Agreed entirely. But militant politically motivated trade unionism has not always been pro-worker or benefited workers.

[Dennis Denuto]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Agreed entirely. But militant politically motivated trade unionism has not always been pro-worker or benefited workers.

I agree that political idealism should be kept separate from the trade union movement, it has a place but not next to the real work of unions IMO.

 

Ironically was it not the public owned companies that the unions of the 70s brought down and therefor accelerated the privatisation of others?  That's the reason right there that the union movement should not be politically motivated.

[Cade]

Unions go too far sometimes.

 

But that's a rare thing.

 

For the vast majority of the time they do good work protecting their members and fighting off both executive and government actions against the workers.

[Francis Albert]

21 minutes ago, Cade said:

Unions go too far sometimes.

 

But that's a rare thing.

 

For the vast majority of the time they do good work protecting their members and fighting off both executive and government actions against the workers.

Agreed it is rare and in 99% of their day to day activity Unions do good work on behalf of their members.

But extremism in a few unions was one factor in the fall of James Callaghan and the rise to power of Margaret Thatcher,

Edited March 18, 2022 by Francis Albert

[joondalupjambo]

All good now.  Two Tory Ministers have both sent strongly worded letters to the PO senior management and the owners of that company.  That should fix it.  

My feeling is a U-turn by PO is possible but somebody with have to give them some kind of sweetener.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

I see CalMac has issued a statement of shock and notice of vacancies on their ships.

 

Probably breathing a sigh of relief at getting some good PR for a change.

[Weakened Offender]

25 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

I see CalMac has issued a statement of shock and notice of vacancies on their ships.

 

Probably breathing a sigh of relief at getting some good PR for a change.

 

Have Calmac been on the receiving end of bad publicity recently? 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

5 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Have Calmac been on the receiving end of bad publicity recently? 

 

Lots of frustration in the islands about delays, cancellations and a shortage of boats for lifeline routes. Plus the whole Ferguson Marine debacle.

 

Absolute chicken feed compared to what P&O is doing to itself right nwo.

[Lone Striker]

6 hours ago, Dennis Denuto said:

Ironically was it not the public owned companies that the unions of the 70s brought down and therefor accelerated the privatisation of others?  That's the reason right there that the union movement should not be politically motivated.

Yes, the main union leaders back then seemed to have a perpetual gripe about something or other - not just to lobby for more pay and better conditions for their members, but an ideological dislike of Heath's government followed by a confrontation with Callaghan & Wilson  when their hope of  a  "comrades invitation"  to beer and sandwiches at Number 10 with a view to influence policy didn't materialise.

 

Anyone see the clip tonight of Grant Shapps speech ?  It was either a clever act  for the cameras or else he was genuinely angry about P&O's behaviour.  I've never seen or heard him as animated as that.  He said he's reviewing all government contracts with them - sounds like a threat to take action unless P&O do a u-turn on the sackings process.  Proof of the pudding though .....

 

 

[SectionDJambo]

9 hours ago, Dennis Denuto said:

Being a socialist I've always considered being pro-worker as being pro-business. Your business is your workers.

 

Wouldn't the world be great if business owners realised the true value of employees and we didn't need legislation to protect workers rights..........

My late dad told me that the big guys would be nothing without the little guys and respect should be given to anyone, no matter their level in the workplace.

My dad wasn’t a socialist, he just believed that respect for any person was a minimum requirement for any decent person.

It was a belief that I carried through my work life in management. Treat people with respect and they will return the compliment. 

The P&O management/owners have displayed a staggering disregard for decency and respect for their employees that the British public shouldn’t forget before supporting their business in future.

[John Gentleman]

This sort of shit has been happening all over the western world since neoliberalism (in its various guises) took hold. Employers simply declare a position/s redundant, then engage an outside contractor to fill it with a slightly different job specification, thus neatly circumventing the 'rules of redundancy'.
I often wonder, at what point ordinary folk will say "enough is enough" and get really bolshie about it?

[Japan Jambo]

 

20 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

No, apparently not.

 

'The reality is seafaring is one of the last industries with little regulation. When I see people ocmmenting on other posts 

"we shall see what the employment tribunal says"

"surely this is illegal, they can't get away with it"

"it's not redundancy, they had other workers lined up for the positions"

frankly if I couldn't laugh, I'd be done for. NONE of those regs/laws etc apply to this company, as the workers were employed in Jersey, and the company AND vessels registered elsewhere.

 

Much as I love to bash tories where ever possible, this particular issue a) is not of Tory making (well, not in the last couple of decades anyway), and b) is very much an international issue.

 

To make any changes in this area we would need to modify the Maritime Labour Convention, which is the International Treaty agreed upon by all member states of the International Maritime Organisation. To give an idea of where they are at, it is less than 10 years ago that they brought in rules regarding hours of work/rest, which stipulate a max working week of 72 hours! So with all the will in the world, I don't see it changing any time soon '

 

Have to be honest Smithee, regardless of the legal situation it's a really awful scumbag move.

 

I would add though that I'm not surprised the company didn't rush to get round the table with the RMT. I suspect they may have made the calculation that dealing with the RMT in any sensible way really isn't plausible;

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/tube-strike-new-row-driver-failed-alcohol-breath-test-9990276.html

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/tube-underground-strike-march-3rd-2022-today-tfl-latest-updates-news-sadiq-khan-b985730.html

https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/tube-strike

 

[Unknown user]

44 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

 

Have to be honest Smithee, regardless of the legal situation it's a really awful scumbag move.

 

I would add though that I'm not surprised the company didn't rush to get round the table with the RMT. I suspect they may have made the calculation that dealing with the RMT in any sensible way really isn't plausible;

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/tube-strike-new-row-driver-failed-alcohol-breath-test-9990276.html

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/tube-underground-strike-march-3rd-2022-today-tfl-latest-updates-news-sadiq-khan-b985730.html

https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/tube-strike

 

 

No arguments from me, it's brutal! But apparently it's the norm for seafarers - it's only 10 years since the right to scheduled breaks was enshrined and working hours restricted to 72 per week.

[maroonlegions]

Wonder if this got mentioned on his trip there this week?

 

THELONDONECONOMIC.COM

Dubai-owned P&O paid shareholders £270m dividend before mass sacking

 

[Sooperstar]

 

 

😂😂😂

[jack D and coke]

30 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

 

 

😂😂😂

Hypocrites man  Superbly called out there what a riddy. 

[Mikey1874]

Strangely P&O might not have followed the correct legal procedure to do what they did. A degree of consultation and notifying the authorities.

 

Could be their downfall, a technicality. And they could be facing an unlimited fine. 

 

P&O having to answer on questionnaire to the Government by Tuesday. 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Mikey1874

[milky_26]

52 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Hypocrites man  Superbly called out there what a riddy. 

with the exception it is not a fire and rehire from P&O

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

with the exception it is not a fire and rehire from P&O

Isn’t it? 

[milky_26]

22 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Isn’t it? 

i dont think P&O are rehiring the staff they fired. they are replacing them with cheaper workers

[jack D and coke]

6 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

i dont think P&O are rehiring the staff they fired. they are replacing them with cheaper workers

Yeah that’s how I understood it bud.

Fire and rehire cheaper foreign workers. 
Same kinda thing no?

[milky_26]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah that’s how I understood it bud.

Fire and rehire cheaper foreign workers. 
Same kinda thing no?

i think they are a little different as the cheaper staff would not be rehires. I would need to check what was suggested by the blocked legislation but i would imagine that it would not cover what has happened here. 

 

However i think we both agree that P&O need to be booted very hard for this shocking action

[jack D and coke]

11 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

i think they are a little different as the cheaper staff would not be rehires. I would need to check what was suggested by the blocked legislation but i would imagine that it would not cover what has happened here. 

 

However i think we both agree that P&O need to be booted very hard for this shocking action

Absolutely. The British govt need to hammer them here. I have no idea what they can do but this just cant be allowed to happen and them to trade as normal. Also this trading as offshore based companies but able to claim furlough for example is utter bullshit imo. You don’t pay uk taxes you’re not eligible to any help whatsoever imo. 

[jack D and coke]

Whether these are true or not I’m not sure…

One is the instructions for the stormtroopers who arrested the P&O workers..

[Cade]

It's the lack of notice that's still illegal no matter what.

 

Both a lack of notifying the DWP when making more than 100 redundancies and not giving the workers any notice either.

 

TUPE legislation may also enter into it, considering that P&O has changed hands a couple of times in the last few years.

(TUPE is Transfer of Undertakings Protection of Employment).

That prevents a new owner ripping up everyone's contracts and imposing new ones.

 

Changing contracts without employee consultation is also illegal.

 

[joondalupjambo]

Unless the UK Government does something really meaning about this on Monday, Tuesday at the latest then they need called out for gaslighting over this. The Minister responsible on Thursday said if it was shown that nothing could be done to reverse this decision then he wanted emergency legal powers put in place immediately so he could take action. Time will tell.

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 hours ago, Sooperstar said:

 

 

😂😂😂

What a surprise.

[WorldChampions1902]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

It's the lack of notice that's still illegal no matter what.

 

Both a lack of notifying the DWP when making more than 100 redundancies and not giving the workers any notice either.

 

TUPE legislation may also enter into it, considering that P&O has changed hands a couple of times in the last few years.

(TUPE is Transfer of Undertakings Protection of Employment).

That prevents a new owner ripping up everyone's contracts and imposing new ones.

 

Changing contracts without employee consultation is also illegal.

 

TUPE is an absolute minefield. Add the “maritime” nature of the roles into the mix and this whole scenario has the makings of a veritable “cluster****”. If (and it’s a big IF), Fire & Rehire is being imposed on some employees then that will be the icing on the cake.
 

I suspect the only winners here will be the Employment Law specialists. And despite the faux outrage emanating from this Junta, they will do sod all to either stop this or change employment laws to improve employee protections.

[Unknown user]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

It's the lack of notice that's still illegal no matter what.

 

Both a lack of notifying the DWP when making more than 100 redundancies and not giving the workers any notice either.

 

TUPE legislation may also enter into it, considering that P&O has changed hands a couple of times in the last few years.

(TUPE is Transfer of Undertakings Protection of Employment).

That prevents a new owner ripping up everyone's contracts and imposing new ones.

 

Changing contracts without employee consultation is also illegal.

 

 

All this is presuming they're employed in the UK, which I don't believe they are

[Japan Jambo]

12 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Hypocrites man  Superbly called out there what a riddy. 

 

Given that she showed up presumably trying to help I can't quite understand how it's in the workers best interests to dis her rather than engage with her. Guess that's the world today though - tribe trumps the issue.

[Cade]

>Voted against legislation that would have prevented them from being sacked.

>Turns up to show solidarity with the sacked workers.

>Gets called out for having voted against the legislation that would have prevented them from being sacked.

>Acts all surprised.

[ri Alban]

On 18/03/2022 at 13:46, The Real Maroonblood said:

It would be nice. 

[ri Alban]

17 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Hypocrites man  Superbly called out there what a riddy. 

. 

 

 

As for the riddie, you couldn't mark these ***** necks a Storm trooper's blaster.

[Harry Potter]

On 18/03/2022 at 16:23, Cade said:

Unions go too far sometimes.

 

But that's a rare thing.

 

For the vast majority of the time they do good work protecting their members and fighting off both executive and government actions against the workers.

Unions have done a lot of good in the past, health and safety for a start, they are required to give workers a fair chance and rights. As for P and O hope folk travel with another company.

[Pans Jambo]

6 hours ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Given that she showed up presumably trying to help I can't quite understand how it's in the workers best interests to dis her rather than engage with her. Guess that's the world today though - tribe trumps the issue.

She showed up for self publicity reasons to look like she gives a shit. She doesnt, shes a tory. Tories dont like workers rights. She voted against a bill that may have helped in this situation and was rightly called out for it. 
The tories would have all workers on minimum wage zero hour contract with no holiday pay, sick pay or rights if they could get away with it. 
 

Do folk not see the tories for what they are? Its in the news most days!

Edited March 20, 2022 by Pans Jambo

[Harry Potter]

8 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

She showed up for self publicity reasons to look like she gives a shit. She doesnt, shes a tory. Tories dont like workers rights. She voted against a bill that may have helped in this situation and was rightly called out for it. 
The tories would have all workers on minimum wage zero hour contract with no holiday pay, sick pay or rights if they could get away with it. 
 

Do folk not see the tories for what they are? Its in the news most days!

What was the bill that could have helped PJ ?.

[Unknown user]

6 hours ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Given that she showed up presumably trying to help I can't quite understand how it's in the workers best interests to dis her rather than engage with her. Guess that's the world today though - tribe trumps the issue.

 

Votes against workers' rights, turns up to protest workers' rights, workers are arseholes for not welcoming her.

 

Welcome to life through the Tory lens.

[I P Knightley]

8 hours ago, Cade said:

>Voted against legislation that would have prevented them from being sacked.

>Turns up to show solidarity with the sacked workers.

>Gets called out for having voted against the legislation that would have prevented them from being sacked.

>Acts all surprised.

My favourite bit was when she joined the "shame on you!" chant before realising that it was targeted at her. 

[Weakened Offender]

On 18/03/2022 at 20:23, Led Tasso said:

 

Lots of frustration in the islands about delays, cancellations and a shortage of boats for lifeline routes. 

 

The worst winter in years didn't help. 

[Cade]

1 hour ago, I P Knightley said:

My favourite bit was when she joined the "shame on you!" chant before realising that it was targeted at her. 

 

An absolute peach

[Mikey1874]

3 hours ago, Harry Potter said:

What was the bill that could have helped PJ ?.

 

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

21 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Hypocrites man  Superbly called out there what a riddy. 

 

Apart from the fact it is not fire and rehire but fire and replace.  Can they even do this legally under employment law? Also the Sheik, Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, that heads up the parent company (DP World) was the same one who's reputation was trashed in a London court when he had his daughters kidnapped. Is there some plain old bitter revenge motive in this action as well? 

[Harry Potter]

9 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

Cheers bud, shocking way to treat your employees, seeths me up big time.

Saying that ive worked in some places with clown managers, how half of them 

got the post is beyond me, also a manager supervising over an employee who could not even do that job, going on a rant now lol.

Jobs for the boys comes to mind , not your ability.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Harry Potter

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, I P Knightley said:

My favourite bit was when she joined the "shame on you!" chant before realising that it was targeted at her. 

that was good

[Sooperstar]

10 hours ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Given that she showed up presumably trying to help I can't quite understand how it's in the workers best interests to dis her rather than engage with her. Guess that's the world today though - tribe trumps the issue.

That is quite a wild take.