P&O Ferries sack 800 staff via Zoom

[Lone Striker]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60779001

 

Outrageous flouting of employment law - RMT union  ready to take P&O to court.  No 45-day consultation, just a  mass invite to a Zoom call.   Apparently the company intend to hire cheap labour to allow ships to restart.    Meanwhile all services suspended for at least a week, affecting passenger and freight  bookings.       This could be the shipping industry's "Ratner" moment.

 

 

[Marvin]

Also in the news DWP is to close 13 sites by June 2023

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-60783554

 

My office included. We close next March, but the remaining of the employees are to leave by January. We're all to be redeployed to another DWP site or another civil service office. I'm having a meeting on Monday with the TU rep. 

[skinnybob72]

Hope they get hammered in court - and go under. Realistically, in the grand scheme of things, how much are you going to save binning 800 staff and replacing them with cheaper staff? 
 

Would save far more binning the CEO and the Board and replacing them with chimps.

[Cade]

.........and last year the Government blocked a bill banning fire&rehire.

 

[Lone Striker]

9 minutes ago, Cade said:

.........and last year the Government blocked a bill banning fire&rehire.

 

Have you got a link to that story ?

[milky_26]

5 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Have you got a link to that story ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58997916

[Mikey1874]

Dubai owners

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Mikey1874

[Lone Striker]

49 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58997916

Cheers.  Disgraceful stuff - meaningless words of support, yet no intention of allowing it to be voted on.

 

P&O are advising customers to re-book their trips on competitor ships (DFDS etc) - hopefully P&O lose these customers for good, and the public in general protest by refusing to travel with them.  It would serve them right.

 

The power of the consumer  etc

 

[Lone Striker]

9 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Dubai owners

 

The murky world of huge multi-national companies winning "essential service" contracts from governments.

 

When is  Boris announcing the next round of sanctions on Russian companies ? 🙄   

[manaliveits105]

Union guy on news said it was owned by  Middle Eastern oil billionaires 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Marvin said:

Also in the news DWP is to close 13 sites by June 2023

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-60783554

 

My office included. We close next March, but the remaining of the employees are to leave by January. We're all to be redeployed to another DWP site or another civil service office. I'm having a meeting on Monday with the TU rep. 

Good luck 👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

21 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

The murky world of huge multi-national companies winning "essential service" contracts from governments.

 

When is  Boris announcing the next round of sanctions on Russian companies ? 🙄   

Russians getting blamed for everything , convenient scapegoat maybe? 

[The Real Maroonblood]

54 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Dubai owners

 

What a scumbag company.

[Lone Striker]

47 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Russians getting blamed for everything , convenient scapegoat maybe? 

Well, world politics  can often be described as each country maintaining their own league table of other countries - friendly ones  at the top, despised & dangerous ones  at the bottom.    Our league table has Russia at the bottom now (just below China & N.Korea), while Saudi Arabia has been mid-table but slowly making headway up the league (despite its strict laws).   Iran might be on the rise soon too, now that Nazanin has been released and  there's a desire to get them back onside about the suspended nuclear agreement.

 

It looks like Boris's charm offensive in Saudi hasn't produced any increase in oil supplies  for us.

[Don Dan]

P45 & O

[Tommy Brown]

Wtf

[Section Q]

19 hours ago, skinnybob72 said:

Hope they get hammered in court - and go under. Realistically, in the grand scheme of things, how much are you going to save binning 800 staff and replacing them with cheaper staff? 
 

Would save far more binning the CEO and the Board and replacing them with chimps.

Philippinos will earn not much  more than a few bob and a bag of rice a month. 

Their time on could last up to a year or more and they won't get any paid leave.

P&O will save big time. Not much left of our merchant navy these days.......

[John Findlay]

I worked on P&O ferries in 1990. Did the Portsmouth to Le Harve route on the Pride of Le Harve. Before I could be employed, I had to do a survival course at Gravesend in Kent. The union wouldn't recognise the five I had done in the Royal Navy. Did this survival course, and everything on it was exactly the same as the Royal Navy one.

[theshed]

2 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

Wtf

No one should ever use this company again 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Some folks thinking this is a fire & rehire, nope this is a fire & replace with other workers, utterly disgraceful behaviour from the employers.

Seen one guy who was hired to replace the sacked staff, only he wasn't told that, told them to stick the job when he found out, hopefully he's joined by many many more.

 

As others have said everybody needs to boycott this company.

[Captain Sausage]

Disgusting corporate behaviour. Hopefully the end of them. 

[theshed]

42 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Some folks thinking this is a fire & rehire, nope this is a fire & replace with other workers, utterly disgraceful behaviour from the employers.

Seen one guy who was hired to replace the sacked staff, only he wasn't told that, told them to stick the job when he found out, hopefully he's joined by many many more.

 

As others have said everybody needs to boycott this company.

Like you say they aren’t even firing the workers and then taking them back on at reduced rate, they are sacked and out the door 

 

Now I know nothing about what these guys do but how can you sack guys that must be experienced at their jobs and put in agency workers who probably don’t have a clue what to do

[Dennis Denuto]

Many of these routes are vital supply lines for the UK, P&O ferries should be immediately taken into public ownership as a matter of national security and the routes opened back up as soon as possible.  If it is such an unviable company then the owners from the UAE will be delighted we have taken it off them.

[Pans Jambo]

19 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

Many of these routes are vital supply lines for the UK, P&O ferries should be immediately taken into public ownership as a matter of national security and the routes opened back up as soon as possible.  If it is such an unviable company then the owners from the UAE will be delighted we have taken it off them.

This.

I'm disgusted by P&O. Are we now going back to the victorian labour laws???

[JudyJudyJudy]

32 minutes ago, theshed said:

Like you say they aren’t even firing the workers and then taking them back on at reduced rate, they are sacked and out the door 

I think its perfectly legal that they can do this. However its clearly morally wrong. Trash really. They probably changed a part of the " terms and conditions " of employment so that's how they got away with it. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

This.

I'm disgusted by P&O. Are we now going back to the victorian labour laws???

Labour laws have been going down the pan for years. This is nothing new. I went to a meeting years ago with management regarding my contract and then was informed at the meeting that my contract would be ended. Simple as that. They claimed a change in terms and conditions. The union were involved and we fought it and i kept my job but its a lesson to be learned. Employers will drop you like a hot potato if they can. No one is invincible. 

[jack D and coke]

For decades now we’ve allowed Tory think to infect us all. The denigration of almost everything that has built the place. The NHS, immigrants, Teachers, Firefighters, unions, europe you name it.

All paid for and washed through our brains by the people who give money to the Tory party. 
It’s brought us to this point. 
Still people will continue to defend it. It’s mind boggling. 
 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

For decades now we’ve allowed Tory think to infect us all. The denigration of almost everything that has built the place. The NHS, immigrants, Teachers, Firefighters, unions, europe you name it.

All paid for and washed through our brains by the people who give money to the Tory party. 
It’s brought us to this point. 
Still people will continue to defend it. It’s mind boggling. 
 

 

It’s their way.

Says a lot about the people who vote them in.

[Hugh Phamism]

I'm pretty sure the 'collective' redundancy rules for a 90 day consultation, etc, were all EU laws. However, since Brexit...

 

Reporting losses of 100M per year, but the parent company spent 140M last year on golf sponsorship.

 

Disgusting behaviour.

[jack D and coke]

21 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

It’s their way.

Says a lot about the people who vote them in.

Could you imagine if the tasering stories etc were in Scotland?
Truly mind boggling stuff man. 
 

[Pans Jambo]

19 minutes ago, Hugh Phamism said:

I'm pretty sure the 'collective' redundancy rules for a 90 day consultation, etc, were all EU laws. However, since Brexit...

 

Reporting losses of 100M per year, but the parent company spent 140M last year on golf sponsorship.

 

Disgusting behaviour.

And paid £200m in dividends. How TF does that even work???

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Could you imagine if the tasering stories etc were in Scotland?
Truly mind boggling stuff man. 
 

There would be a few on here suicidal. 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

There would be a few on here suicidal. 

I can’t believe what I’m reading about the Tory party and Russians never mind reading about employees in Britain being tasered out of their place of employment by people in balaclavas. 
The **** is going on??? 

[jambo89]

40 minutes ago, Hugh Phamism said:

I'm pretty sure the 'collective' redundancy rules for a 90 day consultation, etc, were all EU laws. However, since Brexit...

 

Reporting losses of 100M per year, but the parent company spent 140M last year on golf sponsorship.

 

Disgusting behaviour.

 

Unlikey to have prevented any of this tbh. In fact they would have favoured P&O in this case as per the Lavall and Viking ECJ rulings.

 

Disgusting nevertheless!

[Brighton Jambo]

39 minutes ago, Hugh Phamism said:

I'm pretty sure the 'collective' redundancy rules for a 90 day consultation, etc, were all EU laws. However, since Brexit...

 

Reporting losses of 100M per year, but the parent company spent 140M last year on golf sponsorship.

 

Disgusting behaviour.

It’s got absolutely nothing to do with Brexit. All of the collective consultations legal obligations are still in place.  This scumbag company just hasn’t followed due process.

 

I voted remain and would like to see Brexit reversed but this kind of comment is just ridiculous.

 

Just call it for what it is, a terrible company making a wholly unethical decision that breached employment legislation to maximise profit.  

[Mikey1874]

39 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

Unlikey to have prevented any of this tbh. In fact they would have favoured P&O in this case as per the Lavall and Viking ECJ rulings.

 

Disgusting nevertheless!

 

It is unclear.

 

One result of Brexit is Ireland bypassing the British route and a fall in trade but still not clear.

 

Here's what some of the Irish are saying

 

 

[Unknown user]

Seafaring jobs don't have the protection we do, this isn't that unusual according to my merchant navy mate.

 

But it does show you how life could look when workers have their rights taken away.

Stop voting Tory unless this is what you want to see

 

 

[Victorian]

This is what happens when you allow predatory business to continually push the boundaries of responsibility,  decency,  morality,  legality.  And continually not give a shit about it and turn the other way.

 

But holding office is about getting access to parties in Italian castle and all forms of entertainment contained within.  And poncing about getting your photo taken.  Anything to avoid the hassle of trying to improve peoples' lives.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Companies like this are pure shite. Owned by billionaire nonce funds in some far flung shit hole and basically maintained in a way which loads them with debt and makes them liable to collapse.

[John Findlay]

[frankblack]

It does feel like one hell of an industrial tribunal coming for unfair dismissal under a number of terms not followed.

 

To be made redundant your job has to cease to exist yet they brought in temps to take over.  Then there are employee consultation periods and forms that have to be completed yet weren't.

 

Some lawyers will be itching to get a piece of this.

[Francis Albert]

The ultimate owner of P&O is the ruler of Dubai, Sheik Mohamed one of the richest men in the world. Anyone who saw the recent documentary on how the rich of Dubai live will not be surprised by P&O's action . It was mostly luxury  porn but  gave a few glimpses of how the native Arabs, all disgustingly rich solely through place of birth and their religion, , treat their employees from surrounding poor countries in the region.

 

I believe the Sheikh is the one regularly seen at British racecourses watching his horses. Sanctions anyone?

Edited March 18, 2022 by Francis Albert

[Lone Striker]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

For decades now we’ve allowed Tory think to infect us all. The denigration of almost everything that has built the place. The NHS, immigrants, Teachers, Firefighters, unions, europe you name it.

All paid for and washed through our brains by the people who give money to the Tory party. 
It’s brought us to this point. 
Still people will continue to defend it. It’s mind boggling. 
 

 

Tend to agree with you're saying, but the fairness behind democracy tends to take a hit when a disruptive & emotive subject dominates voters minds. Scottish indyref followed by EU indyref   followed by a hung HoC unable to approve Teresa May's Withdrawal Agreement has resulted in the rise of BoJo and his "get Brexit done"  bollox.     So he ends up with a huge majority on the back of all  that, thanks to a large section of English voters who wouldn't otherwise have voted Tory.  In a way, it was a clever & easy hit for him - masterminded probably by Cummings, who now probably regrets it.

 

Partygate will probably disappear (if it hasn't already) due to the horrors in Ukraine.  At the next GE, will the public remember the hypocrisy of the Tory open arms which welcomed Russian dirty money for over 2 decades ?  Or the  NI Protocol  disaster ?  Or the new hurdles put in the way of our fishing communities despite the Brexiteers promising the opposite  ?    Or taking too long to stop foreign travel at the start of Covid  ?     Or partygate ?  Or sleazy honours ?   Or Patel's intransigence over only accepting refugees who "qualify" ?     Or what might turn out to be just hollow  words of rebuke  over the P&O outrage ?    etc etc etc.

Putin may have inadvertently helped BoJo win another term.       Election slogan might be "Make Britain Great again"    🙄

 

 

[Dennis Denuto]

7 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The ultimate owner of P&O is the ruler of Dubai, Sheik Mohamed one of the richest men in the world. Anyone who saw the recent documentary will not be surprised. It was mostly luxury  luxury porn but  gave a few glimpses of how the native Arabs, all disgustingly rich solely through place of birth and their religion, , treat their employees from poor countries in the region.

 

I believe the Sheikh is the one regularly seen at British racecourses watching his horses. Sanctions anyone?

The question for me is should this be the sort of person who we want owning the rights and running of essential supply lines into and out of the country?

[Francis Albert]

Apologies for my earlier post. It is apparently down to the Tories and Brexit. Probably that explains the treatment of foreign workers in Dubai too.

[Dennis Denuto]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Apologies for my earlier post. It is apparently down to the Tories and Brexit. Probably that explains the treatment of foreign workers in Dubai too.

You can't deny that the Conservatives always create a culture and legislate for reduced workers rights when in power.

[Francis Albert]

I don't think the Sheikh will be too worried about legal costs and financial penalties. He paid his wife £450m in a divorce settlement not too long ago.

[Unknown user]

20 minutes ago, frankblack said:

It does feel like one hell of an industrial tribunal coming for unfair dismissal under a number of terms not followed.

 

To be made redundant your job has to cease to exist yet they brought in temps to take over.  Then there are employee consultation periods and forms that have to be completed yet weren't.

 

Some lawyers will be itching to get a piece of this.

 

No, apparently not.

 

'The reality is seafaring is one of the last industries with little regulation. When I see people ocmmenting on other posts 

"we shall see what the employment tribunal says"

"surely this is illegal, they can't get away with it"

"it's not redundancy, they had other workers lined up for the positions"

frankly if I couldn't laugh, I'd be done for. NONE of those regs/laws etc apply to this company, as the workers were employed in Jersey, and the company AND vessels registered elsewhere.

 

Much as I love to bash tories where ever possible, this particular issue a) is not of Tory making (well, not in the last couple of decades anyway), and b) is very much an international issue.

 

To make any changes in this area we would need to modify the Maritime Labour Convention, which is the International Treaty agreed upon by all member states of the International Maritime Organisation. To give an idea of where they are at, it is less than 10 years ago that they brought in rules regarding hours of work/rest, which stipulate a max working week of 72 hours! So with all the will in the world, I don't see it changing any time soon '

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

You can't deny that the Conservatives always create a culture and legislate for reduced workers rights when in power.

 

Well exactly, and if this doesn't give fair warning of what we're sleepwalking into, we deserve what's coming.

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

You can't deny that the Conservatives always create a culture and legislate for reduced workers rights when in power.

Always is maybe a slight exaggeration. There was no serious attack on workers rights by Conservatives after WW2 until Thatcher came along. And Labour in the 60s and 70s tried largely unsuccessfully to restrict some union practices as the impact of  industrial unrest had poor Denis Healey flying off to beg the IMF for support for our economy.

 

But of course Labour is generally more pro-worker and Conservative pro - business.