*** The official Heart of Midlothian vs Dundee FC Wednesday 09/02/2022 KO 7:45***

[1971fozzy]

1 minute ago, Sherbet said:

Who was better?

souttar, Kingsley, Mackay, Beni , Boyce to name 5

can you name anyone worse ?

[brawlad74]

Still struggling to understand why we want to keep Scumdee up. Second half was a car crash totally unacceptable. Players defo need to step up on Sat.

[hisnameis]

The team is all over the place at the moment. Too many changes both forced and otherwise. the loss of Halkett is huge but we are finding out that a few just cant cut it also. Don't agree that Haring is done. Needs to get a run in the team. cant be expected to come in with different partners and run the show. 

I also think the Souttar saga was a big distraction for the player and the club. The new guys have been forced to come  and jump in at the deep end. Overall we have better quality and depth but I think we are out thought tactically at times.

[Debut 4]

7 hours ago, topsport said:

Robbie said in his interview there were too many sideways passes etc then why did he not bring on a midfielder whose instinct to play forward?! 
weird playing McEneff on Sunday from nowhere but not in today’s game where there was more chance of making an impact? 
i don’t get the reasoning

McEneff must be wondering if he’s a worthwhile member of the squad? The confidence must be getting sapped out of him. 
 

I think managers feel players are robots these days. They’ll come in, train, work at the system and the manager thinks they’re ready, first pick or sub.  
 

He’ll be chucked in again at our next big match and expect miracles from him.  

[Sherbet]

25 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

souttar, Kingsley, Mackay, Beni , Boyce to name 5

can you name anyone worse ?

Beni ?   If he could play a forward pass or maybe even towards the white sticks

[Tynecastle Valhalla]

Get devlin back in pronto 

[Sherbet]

2 minutes ago, wallace_mercer said:

Get devlin back in pronto 

Devlin for beni, and mceneff. At least he is attack minded and should be given a run. If beni were to take a penalty in a shoot out he would play it sideways

[vegas-voss]

9 hours ago, Agentjambo said:

So what’s the reason we can’t play with inverted wingers,just need to get in a decent left footed forward and another (central)forward.

I think Charles Cook looks that type.Most of the goals I have seen seems to be from him coming in from the right hand side

[Haken]

I don't think our system is that bad, tbh, but it does require players to be mobile and to make themselves available.  I don't know if some were feeling a bit fragile after getting their arses roasted on Sunday, but it felt as though there was a reluctance to find a space or make a run.  Whatever the reason, it's not acceptable.

[Ron Burgundy]

Everyone last night was poor. Even Gordon looks shaky. His kicking has always been his Achilles heel but it's getting to schoolboy standards and as for throwing the ball at a Dundee players back from a yard??

 

We are just going to have to suck up the Neilson way until he decides he has had enough. If he survived Brora then he can survive anything. If there was a nuclear war it would be him and the cockroaches left.

 

[PapaShango]

Still hacked off about last night but did buy a ticket for Saturday this morning! However we need to see a massive improvement and play for the full 90. We could and probably should have finished them off first half. That no way excuses that second half though, it was disjointed and all over the place. The subs were also terrible and we lost any shape we did have. McKay wasn't have his best night but to take him off and replace him with Woodburn was baffling at best. Even second half when we were poor we still should have scored with Simms and Boyce with the header over the bar. Boyce for me needs a spell on the bench, he offered very little last night.

[Harry Potter]

10 hours ago, daavojaay said:

This plus Gordon's form isn't what it was. Missing halkett souttar isn't playing with same effort he was before so easy to see

Lets be honest craig is only as good as the cover in front of him, and theres none at times. 

[Sherbet]

41 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Everyone last night was poor. Even Gordon looks shaky. His kicking has always been his Achilles heel but it's getting to schoolboy standards and as for throwing the ball at a Dundee players back from a yard??

 

We are just going to have to suck up the Neilson way until he decides he has had enough. If he survived Brora then he can survive anything. If there was a nuclear war it would be him and the cockroaches left.

 

Maybe the cockroaches would improve us

[iwasthere1954]

18 hours ago, Factuer Moi said:

Wat game did John get injured in ? So many games crammed together 

I think the word"injured" covers many scenarios 😁

[JimmyCant]

2 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

After going to watch us at Easter road and again yesterday the thought of travelling another 100+ miles on Saturday to watch these absolute charlatans and useless manager is seriously crossing my mind. I’ve bought my seat but am so pissed off this morning (thought I’d feel better than last night by no)

I was torn between watching the rugby and going to Tynecastle. I’ve decided now

[Francis Albert]

Can anyone explain why on earth either Souttar or Rangers would have a say on what games Souttar plays? I thought he was a long from the worst last night.

 

Incidentally has there been a player rating thread?

[PapaShango]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

Can anyone explain why on earth either Souttar or Rangers would have a say on what games Souttar plays? I thought he was a long from the worst last night.

 

Incidentally has there been a player rating thread?

I thought although Souttar wasn't great he was probably one of the only with pass marks in that second half. We badly miss Halkett and we currently have two wing backs offering next to nothing and a central midfield that can't get forward. Saturday is massive, if we go out to Livi then the fans will no doubt turn again on Robbie and who can blame them. Like last season we are stuttering to the end of the season and more down to good luck with the teams below us all losing over the last 2 games. Big opportunity missed tonight and it's very frustrating. Get Boyce benched, him and Simms doesn't work and Simms is by far the better option at the moment. 

[Deevers]

The second half last night was dreadful. Most of the players really need to have a good look at themselves after that.

[Thomaso]

9 hours ago, topsport said:

Agree re McKay 

Scoring just isn’t happening so far though 

Very unlucky not to score last night 

[Sooks]

8 minutes ago, Deevers said:

The second half last night was dreadful. Most of the players really need to have a good look at themselves after that.

 

It really was. Neilson doesn't escape criticism for that, but there were some really poor individual performances. 

[JimmyCant]

29 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Can anyone explain why on earth either Souttar or Rangers would have a say on what games Souttar plays? I thought he was a long from the worst last night.

 

Incidentally has there been a player rating thread?

The only scenario I can think of is Souttar might be carrying a niggle and gets the lions share in the decision as to whether he plays or not. It’s not uncommon for players to declare themselves unfit to play.

[smiler]

36 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

 

Incidentally has there been a player rating thread?

Don’t think so, I think Geoffrey must have fallen asleep.

[heartsfc_fan]

First half we played alright. Could've/should've been 3-0 up.

Dundee stood off us and we were comfortable.

 

Second half Dundee pressed us. We simply cannot cope when teams do this. I actually think taking off Halliday and McKay was a poor decision. Boyce and Haring were the two I'd have taken off for Ginnelly and Devlin.

Speaking of Ginnelly he can't cross the ball to save himself. He'd have been better through the middle with Simms knocking headers on to him to run on..

 

We really miss Smith and Halkett. Hopefully the former will be back at the weekend in place of Moore.

[smiler]

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Everyone last night was poor. Even Gordon looks shaky. His kicking has always been his Achilles heel but it's getting to schoolboy standards 

 

His kicking has always been pish, been saying this for years, doesn’t go down too well on here though. A vital attribute for a ‘keeper, how he’s never improved this skill is baffling.

Edited February 10, 2022 by smiler
Used to instead of too. Morgan wouldn’t approve.

[Ex member of the SaS]

Ok calmed down a bit and here's my thoughts for what they are worth. We have a manager and coaching staff of defenders, this has caused us to be light weight in attacking mids and strikers, therefore a lack of movement/players waiting for a forward pass. Last night we played more in our own half than in theirs, once again pitty pattying around with absolutely no penetration.  Boyce was in our box more than in theirs and he does well enough but he can't make a quick decision or run fast enough to get into an attacking position from our own half. He had a perfect pass into the box after their keeper palmed it out to his right but decided to try and beat the man, a perfect scoring chance lost. Beni was too slow and made too many backward passes and Haring was a bomb scare. I was just starting to think I was wrong about Robbie and while he is not the only one to blame he is ultimately responsible for picking the team and tactics. We once again went with one up front ( Boyce was never there ) against a team at the bottom who we knew would fight for every ball. They had a couple of good saves and a lucky clearance and that took the wind out of our sails along with their fighting spirit. IF Robbie ( or anyone else ) for that matter thinks Livi will be a push over they are wrong and he has to get it right and fast.

[dustybin]

5 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Ok calmed down a bit and here's my thoughts for what they are worth. We have a manager and coaching staff of defenders, this has caused us to be light weight in attacking mids and strikers, therefore a lack of movement/players waiting for a forward pass. Last night we played more in our own half than in theirs, once again pitty pattying around with absolutely no penetration.  Boyce was in our box more than in theirs and he does well enough but he can't make a quick decision or run fast enough to get into an attacking position from our own half. He had a perfect pass into the box after their keeper palmed it out to his right but decided to try and beat the man, a perfect scoring chance lost. Beni was too slow and made too many backward passes and Haring was a bomb scare. I was just starting to think I was wrong about Robbie and while he is not the only one to blame he is ultimately responsible for picking the team and tactics. We once again went with one up front ( Boyce was never there ) against a team at the bottom who we knew would fight for every ball. They had a couple of good saves and a lucky clearance and that took the wind out of our sails along with their fighting spirit. IF Robbie ( or anyone else ) for that matter thinks Livi will be a push over they are wrong and he has to get it right and fast.

This. 

[Dusty]

3 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

Haring was as effective as an ashtray on a motorbike last night. He is most definitely one to allow to go and he can take Halliday with him.  Haring was so off it I was embarrassed. Their first goal he was roasted. Schoolboy stuff. Sad but there’s no point in giving him a new contract when he can turn in the likes of that performance 

First half Haring was the only midfielder getting involved.  Beni did very little.  Midfield balance isn't right just now.  And we need to sort out whether it's Ellis up and Boyce behind or just play one of them as it's not working there either.

[upgotheheads]

I was dreading this thread this morning.

FWIW.

Dundee played very well, especially second half when they allowed us possession at distance, but were very well organised in the last third, even then we created chances; we should have converted at least one of them.

We should have had the game sewn up at half time but didn't convert numerous decent chances into goals.

Whatever breaks and deflections were going went Dundee's way.

We desperately miss the composure of Smith and Halkett in games like this.

Souttar is a class act and we will miss him when he goes, and Sevco might well regret not paying us a decent fee at the end of the season.

In spite of last night's result I see nothing in the teams around us to worry about.

 

The Cup game is massive for our season now and hopefully Smith will be back.  

[chrystaf]

9 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Never has and never will. As stubborn and adamant thar his tactics are always right, just like his mentor, with every excuse in the book. 

Absolutely. He is obsessed with his  own ideas and nothing will change him.  He is quoted as saying there were too many sideways passes, but that's how he likes us to play. He wants us to stroke the ball about until opportunities arise, like Man City but sadly we don't have a Kevin deBruyne to take these chances.

And we are SO slow..our goal last night came from giving Barrie a ball in front to allow him to attack with speed, as opposed to a ball to feet when he has to start from a static position.

And on selection and player choice I could write a book.

When will he get it into his head that GMS offers nothing and Woodburn blows hot and cold, mostly the latter.  Cochrane and Devlin should have been used instead.

Moore will never be a wingback, nor will Halliday. Boyce is past his sell by date and just gets in the way especially in defence.  His legs no longer react to his brain.

And we let Walker go when he could have done a job for us.  Also what about the Henderson fiasco...brought back, given a contract, on the subs bench but never use (clearly not one of Robbie's favourites) and then sent back to Alloa.  What is that all about?

However what is more concerning is that at home against the bottom club, be capitulated after they equalised.  Heads went down and any element of teamwork and tactics went out the window. We all became nervous and jittery....even Craig FFS!

Playing to our strengths, that equliser and even their second, should not have mattered and we shouild have run out 4-2 winners but.....our system does not  make it easy for us to score goals.....Ross County have scored more than us!!

So, it's all down to management and coaching or the lack of it.  Take Cammy, who runs all over the park like a scalded hare.  He's our beaker up of play and should do so in mainly a central area with Souttar and Haring behind, which would allow Beni to push forward in a more attacking role which we currently lack.  But is he being told that??

Glad to get that off my chest. 

 

 

 

[bigis semiauskas]

6 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

I was dreading this thread this morning.

FWIW.

Dundee played very well, especially second half when they allowed us possession at distance, but were very well organised in the last third, even then we created chances; we should have converted at least one of them.

We should have had the game sewn up at half time but didn't convert numerous decent chances into goals.

Whatever breaks and deflections were going went Dundee's way.

We desperately miss the composure of Smith and Halkett in games like this.

Souttar is a class act and we will miss him when he goes, and Sevco might well regret not paying us a decent fee at the end of the season.

In spite of last night's result I see nothing in the teams around us to worry about.

 

The Cup game is massive for our season now and hopefully Smith will be back.  

3rd not a stick on the way we are going, 4 points from last 5 games

Midden on a run and could be our main challengers now.

Their game in hand could close gap to 8 points 

Hopefully Dee beat them thou and Dundee are only 7 behind vermin 

[FJT]

3 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

McEneff must be wondering if he’s a worthwhile member of the squad? The confidence must be getting sapped out of him. 
 

I think managers feel players are robots these days. They’ll come in, train, work at the system and the manager thinks they’re ready, first pick or sub.  
 

He’ll be chucked in again at our next big match and expect miracles from him.  

Yes that sums up my thoughts.  Sometimes wonder if they over complicate the game. 
The little first team chances he’s had I think he’s looked lively, tries to get us moving forward, isn’t shot-shy. 
but no time then thrown into ibrox then ignored again v Dundee when nobody is moving us up the pitch 🤷‍♀️
total headscratcher 

Must be so frustrating for him 

the kind of player we won’t get to see much of, will move on and play an important role for another club in our league 

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, chrystaf said:

Absolutely. He is obsessed with his  own ideas and nothing will change him.  He is quoted as saying there were too many sideways passes, but that's how he likes us to play. He wants us to stroke the ball about until opportunities arise, like Man City but sadly we don't have a Kevin deBruyne to take these chances.

And we are SO slow..our goal last night came from giving Barrie a ball in front to allow him to attack with speed, as opposed to a ball to feet when he has to start from a static position.

And on selection and player choice I could write a book.

When will he get it into his head that GMS offers nothing and Woodburn blows hot and cold, mostly the latter.  Cochrane and Devlin should have been used instead.

Moore will never be a wingback, nor will Halliday. Boyce is past his sell by date and just gets in the way especially in defence.  His legs no longer react to his brain.

And we let Walker go when he could have done a job for us.  Also what about the Henderson fiasco...brought back, given a contract, on the subs bench but never use (clearly not one of Robbie's favourites) and then sent back to Alloa.  What is that all about?

However what is more concerning is that at home against the bottom club, be capitulated after they equalised.  Heads went down and any element of teamwork and tactics went out the window. We all became nervous and jittery....even Craig FFS!

Playing to our strengths, that equliser and even their second, should not have mattered and we shouild have run out 4-2 winners but.....our system does not  make it easy for us to score goals.....Ross County have scored more than us!!

So, it's all down to management and coaching or the lack of it.  Take Cammy, who runs all over the park like a scalded hare.  He's our beaker up of play and should do so in mainly a central area with Souttar and Haring behind, which would allow Beni to push forward in a more attacking role which we currently lack.  But is he being told that??

Glad to get that off my chest. 

 

 

 

Definitely, he refuses point blank to play youngsters and Henderson or Pollock won’t get a chance under him. Two academy graduates this season in Gordon and Walker illustrates this. 

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, bigis semiauskas said:

3rd not a stick on the way we are going, 4 points from last 5 games

Midden on a run and could be our main challengers now.

Their game in hand could close gap to 8 points 

Hopefully Dee beat them thou and Dundee are only 7 behind vermin 

The only positive from last night was one bottom team closer to Hibs 👍🏽. 

[Chillidigits]

That Rangers defeat has affected the confidence of the team IMO. Players at the moment are scared to try any thing because they'll be castigated especially in a home game. Yesterday was a great example of one team being boosted by the frailties of another team.

We need an injection of forward thinking energy. I'd get Pollock involved on Saturday.

[HMFC01]

Sorry to disrupt the flow of chat.    No other referee threads I can see 

 

I noticed their goalkeeper catch the ball with two hands, immediately drops it, runs over to pick it up again.    No indirect free kick.   Referee watches it.   Within five minutes of the game. 

 

Not sure if anyone's mentioned it already.    I'm just on here reading now.    After last night's shambles I went to kip early.    

 

First goal bad luck.   Second goal Moore got caught ball watching.   

 

We needed two goals.    We ended up on the wrong side of a 1-2.   

 

 

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

The only scenario I can think of is Souttar might be carrying a niggle and gets the lions share in the decision as to whether he plays or not. It’s not uncommon for players to declare themselves unfit to play.

It is possible but still players play with "niggles" all the time. We have experienced coaches and at Riccarton some of the best sports medical expertise in the country. They should be able to assess whether Souttar is fit to play. And if we do suspect he is picking and choosing on another basis then he should not be playing at all. My best guess is that when he is not playing it is simply because he has an injury but who knows,

[Muppetboy]

I’m not getting the whole Simms love in. Maybe just adapting to the new league and country etc but I’ve been expecting better

[PapaShango]

1 minute ago, Muppetboy said:

I’m not getting the whole Simms love in. Maybe just adapting to the new league and country etc but I’ve been expecting better

The boy has scored twice in 4 games or so and looks a threat, actually takes a shot at goal and hits the target most of the time. He should have scored more last night but he's probably the least of our concerns. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

So that's my thoughts on how we played, now it's time to get stuck in to their players. How did Adam stay on the park after kicking McKay when he was on the ground? He fouled a number of times and should have had at least one yellow. Really pissed that at half time they said it was handbags. How did Rudden stay on ( or no yellow ) for his attack on Gordon? The ref didn't score their goals but played a big part in keeping them to 11 players.

[Sherbet]

24 minutes ago, Chillidigits said:

That Rangers defeat has affected the confidence of the team IMO. Players at the moment are scared to try any thing because they'll be castigated especially in a home game. Yesterday was a great example of one team being boosted by the frailties of another team.

We need an injection of forward thinking energy. I'd get Pollock involved on Saturday.

Surely by the same token the celtic hammering would have affected the rangers team but they responded , or were they just lucky they faced us

[Tasavallan]

28 minutes ago, Muppetboy said:

I’m not getting the whole Simms love in. Maybe just adapting to the new league and country etc but I’ve been expecting better

What!  From an Everton reserve player who played last season on loan to Blackpool.  Woodburn has had more success at Liverpool and he has been dire in maroon.

 

[davemclaren]

Just now, Tasavallan said:

What!  From an Everton reserve player who played last season on loan to Blackpool.  Woodburn has had more success at Liverpool and he has been dire in maroon.

 

Simms certainly gets more involved than Woodburn. Still a bit raw but two goals from 3 isn’t a bad return. 

[Muppetboy]

6 minutes ago, Tasavallan said:

What!  From an Everton reserve player who played last season on loan to Blackpool.  Woodburn has had more success at Liverpool and he has been dire in maroon.

 

Apparently he was coveted by a good few teams so clearly has pedigree but his first touch is a pass sometimes and his aerial ability hasn’t impressed yet.  I’m certain there’s a player in there so hopefully at the weekend he will continue with a goal or 2

[MAB]

 

I don't post on here very often but Neilson is a loser and is dragging the club down, another woeful performance against the worst side in the SPFL. No real tactics, no spirit, no answers, but the hierarchy in the club are equally to blame they accept mediocrity, and indeed embrace it. Where is a plane and banner when you need one.      

[Gambo]

2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Definitely, he refuses point blank to play youngsters and Henderson or Pollock won’t get a chance under him. Two academy graduates this season in Gordon and Walker illustrates this. 

The 2 players you quote like to move forwards with the ball and get into the box......explains why they find themselves not really in his plans.

[Chillidigits]

1 hour ago, Sherbet said:

Surely by the same token the celtic hammering would have affected the rangers team but they responded , or were they just lucky they faced us

Every team is lucky they play us after a drubbing. It's got many a teams season back on track in the past.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

23 minutes ago, MAB said:

 

I don't post on here very often but Neilson is a loser and is dragging the club down, another woeful performance against the worst side in the SPFL. No real tactics, no spirit, no answers, but the hierarchy in the club are equally to blame they accept mediocrity, and indeed embrace it. Where is a plane and banner when you need one.      

Well said, you should post more often

[Pasquale for King]

25 minutes ago, Gambo said:

The 2 players you quote like to move forwards with the ball and get into the box......explains why they find themselves not really in his plans.

Add McEneff, who we paid £250k for, into that list. 

[martoon]

Admittedly, tictacs aren't my strong point but I'd like to see Gino upfront with Simms vs. Livingston. 

 

The latter did very well vs. Motherwell and the Simms/Boyce partnership doesn't work.

 

Things have gone a bit stale and could do with freshening up.

 

A defeat and our decent season becomes a real downer.

[muldoon74]

Came down to Newcastle for the day to do my hgv hazard perception test. 

 

Couple nice and cheap pubs but I'm still pissed off about last night! 

 

Normally wears off after a couple hours but last night's really rankled me for some reason.