Russia Invades Ukraine

[Locky]

17 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

What was the point of going?

I feel inclined to question how serious the term surrender applies. Like others, are they sitting on the fence? Followed orders to go to Rostov, but had no intention of fighting. By 'surrendering' they can still be on Putin's good side if he sees this out, but also not falling foul of Pregozhin should his coup succeed.

[Hagar the Horrible]

4 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Doesn't look like any the militarily vehicles or properly armed Chechens. Doubt they've headed all that way, publicly as well, to just surrender. Perhaps it'll be a massive plot twist and they'll join Wagner side but still, doubt it's correct to say the Chechens have surrendered at this stage. 

They maybe believed their own hype that by turning up the wagner group would have surrendered. They probably got there and bitten off more than they can chew. If this was the kremlin, then it's a PR disaster 

[Mikey1874]

I'll remind us that one year ago the media said Russia were about to take Donetsk and Luhansk completely. They never did.

 

 

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

They maybe believed their own hype that by turning up the wagner group would have surrendered. They probably got there and bitten off more than they can chew. If this was the kremlin, then it's a PR disaster 

 

Wagner know they are paper tigers. It still could be bloodshed. But so far looking like a peaceful coup.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Mikey1874

[Cruyff]

 

 

[Mikey1874]

Now the most familiar activity in Russia

 

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

4 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

I'll remind us that one year ago the media said Russia were about to take Donetsk and Luhansk completely. They never did.

 

 

 

I don't think the media were wrong on that. They were about to do so. It was a pretty dramatic reversal.

[Cruyff]

Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of this bloody war and everyone can live in peace. 

[Mikey1874]

Holiday in Moscow on Monday declared. 

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, Cruyff said:

Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of this bloody war and everyone can live in peace. 

Yep.

[micole]

Just now, Cruyff said:

Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of this bloody war and everyone can live in peace. 

Very much this, however, as I have said I don't think it is going to end well....🤷‍♂️.

[Mikey1874]

 

[kingantti1874]

22 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

A new Russian leader needs to decide 

 

A. Withdraw from Ukraine 

 

B. Do it properly

1. Mobilisation 

2. Restructure leadership

3. Bomb Kyiv to shit

4. Restructure forces to invade Kyiv and Odesa 

 

Money is on Prigozhin wants to do it properly. 

 

But Russia is probably weakened too badly and the risk is the Ukrainians will walk over them before they can restructure.

russia has neither the equipment or the men or the money to invade Kiev or Odessa. Ukraine now has a greater conventional military capability than Russia and a greater number of operational troops. 

Edited June 24, 2023 by kingantti1874

[Shanks]

6 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of this bloody war and everyone can live in peace. 

 

  this guys a bigger warmonger than putin.  He essentially thinks he can do better commanding the war on Ukraine and he wants to use tactical nukes.

 

Think a lot of folk are getting a bit ahead of themselves celebrating this to be honest….

[redjambo]

3 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

russia had neither the equipment or the men to invade Kiev or Odessa. Ukraine now has a greater conventional military capability than Russia and a greater number of operational troops. 

 

Nah. Link please.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1296573/russia-ukraine-military-comparison/

[Mikey1874]

10 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

russia has neither the equipment or the men or the money to invade Kiev or Odessa. Ukraine now has a greater conventional military capability than Russia and a greater number of operational troops. 

 

To be realistic there is too much money in Africa for Wagner. And peace in Ukraine offers a lot of opportunities including business. Luhansk and Donetsk will still have Wagner people in the Government. 

[Mikey1874]

23 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of this bloody war and everyone can live in peace. 

 

Hopefully. There have always been a lot of sensible people at senior level in Russia. Everything crossed.

 

 

[micole]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Hopefully. There have always been a lot of sensible people at senior level in Russia. Everything crossed.

 

 

Oh I would love this to be true 🤞🤞

[kila]

Most tracked plane on FlightRadar24 flying from Moscow to St. Petersburg

 

 

[Japan Jambo]

Are the Ukrainians making progress as a result of this? One would hope they are really going for it right now...

[hughesie27]

5 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

Are the Ukrainians making progress as a result of this? One would hope they are really going for it right now...

Sky News expert says the best thing fir them to do just now is sit tight and keep tmattacki g main Russian front lines as they have been. They don't want to be duped into over-reaching only to discover that this has all been a con. Unlikely but not worth the risk.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Are you saying Putin was right?

No, I’m saying they’ll reap what Putin has sown.

 

Make a generation of enemies, pay the price.

[Japan Jambo]

7 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Sky News expert says the best thing fir them to do just now is sit tight and keep tmattacki g main Russian front lines as they have been. They don't want to be duped into over-reaching only to discover that this has all been a con. Unlikely but not worth the risk.

 

interesting, sneaky bugger Putin, worth the watching.

[Sertse]

https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1vAGRAwNvzXKl

 

Twitter space I'm listening to for anyone interested, it's very good

[hughesie27]

Ukrainian forces seemingly crossing the Dnipro River. And some telegram channels claiming that Wagner and Russian officials are having negotiation discussions. None of that confirmed.

[kingantti1874]

36 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Nah. Link please.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1296573/russia-ukraine-military-comparison/

I meant effective manpower in this conflict . In Ukraine the entire male population has been mobilised. Also far better mobilised and equipped. 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

I meant effective manpower in this conflict . In Ukraine the entire male population has been mobilised. Also far better mobilised and equipped. 

 

Ah ok. My misunderstanding. I thought you meant the totality of the armed forces. Even that's getting much closer than it was before though, certainly manpower-wise!

[Cruyff]

36 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Hopefully. There have always been a lot of sensible people at senior level in Russia. Everything crossed.

 

 

 

 

[redjambo]

Official break on both Russian sides for blinis and vodka. Conflict to resume at 20.00 BST.

[Locky]

1 hour ago, micole said:

Very much this, however, as I have said I don't think it is going to end well....🤷‍♂️.

It's definitely at a crossroads. Nobody truly knows where this is going, but things seem to be heading for a dramatic turn. On the one hand, this could put an end to Putin's reign of terror and bring peace talks to the Ukrainian conflict.

 

On the other hand, Pregozhin could somehow gain serious power from this and ramp things up significantly. Although like others have said, Russia are in a vulnerable state at the moment and the time this would take to instill Progezhin's plans could already see them ran out of Ukraine and many more troops lost.

 

Problem is, a nation like Russia, regardless of their position are never going to roll over and wave a white flag. They will somehow twist it so that as much as they didn't win the war, they certainly didn't lose it. Like most wars, this has been an utter farce from day 1. Vlad Putin flexing his muscles and satisfying his ego, but at what cost? He's gained nothing, perhaps tarnished legacy indefinitely and left his country in a perilous state.

[kingantti1874]

19 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Ah ok. My misunderstanding. I thought you meant the totality of the armed forces. Even that's getting much closer than it was before though, certainly manpower-wise!

no sorry. Just my usual lack of clarity 

Edited June 24, 2023 by kingantti1874

[Cruyff]

 

 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

no sorry. Just my usually lack of clarity 

 

Ok, we'll call it a draw.

[henrysmithsgloves]

I hope Wagner doesn't get their hands on nukes😳

[hughesie27]

Belarus President has spoken with Wagner throughout today and Wagner have agreed to stop their march on Moscow according to that Space.

Edited June 24, 2023 by hughesie27

[Footballfirst]

If Pregozhin is successful in removing Putin, then I think they will withdraw from Ukraine. I say that based on his recent statements that Ukraine wasn't a threat to anyone, even in 2014.  Whether or not that would be a withdrawal to the Russian border or the 2014 limits is a moot point.

 

I know that he comes over as a warmonger, but I do think his interests and influence lie away from the European sphere, like Africa. 

[WorldChampions1902]

7 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

While this could potentially end the war I would bet there's a lot of apprehension going on in western and other governments right now. A complete collapse is not what we wanted. And it were to be a coup something like Prigozhin is also not what we wanted.

 

This war has been a shit show with one twist after another from day one, that pattern is continuing. 

I predicted this on here months ago. Be careful what you wish for.
 

I said at that time, my belief was that the West could have thrown the kitchen sink at this conflict right from the off and put Putin back in his box. The problem I predicted was that defeating Putin could very likely result in a greater headache for the west in terms of an even bigger bampot being installed in the Kremlin. Or worse still, a civil war in the Russian Federation,  resulting in fragmented states taking control of nuclear weapons. Which would mean instead of the west having to deal with one nuclear power, they would now have to work with multiple new nuclear powers. This is where we could now be headed. Worrying times.

[Mikey1874]

6 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

If Pregozhin is successful in removing Putin, then I think they will withdraw from Ukraine. I say that based on his recent statements that Ukraine wasn't a threat to anyone, even in 2014.  Whether or not that would be a withdrawal to the Russian border or the 2014 limits is a moot point.

 

I know that he comes over as a warmonger, but I do think his interests and influence lie away from the European sphere, like Africa. 

 

Yeah

 

Not as bothered about Nazis

 

 

[Mikey1874]

4 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

I predicted this on here months ago. Be careful what you wish for.
 

I said at that time, my belief was that the West could have thrown the kitchen sink at this conflict right from the off and put Putin back in his box. The problem I predicted was that defeating Putin could very likely result in a greater headache for the west in terms of an even bigger bampot being installed in the Kremlin. Or worse still, a civil war in the Russian Federation,  resulting in fragmented states taking control of nuclear weapons. Which would mean instead of the west having to deal with one nuclear power, they would now have to work with multiple new nuclear powers. This is where we could now be headed. Worrying times.

 

That's always been the most likely outcome. 

 

Strangely though these guys are capable of being sensible too. 

[redjambo]

17 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

If Pregozhin is successful in removing Putin, then I think they will withdraw from Ukraine. I say that based on his recent statements that Ukraine wasn't a threat to anyone, even in 2014.  Whether or not that would be a withdrawal to the Russian border or the 2014 limits is a moot point.

 

I know that he comes over as a warmonger, but I do think his interests and influence lie away from the European sphere, like Africa. 

 

Not for the Ukrainians, it isn't, FF.

[Benny Factor]

11 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Yeah

 

Not as bothered about Nazis

 

 

 

 

[hughesie27]

Seems the Wagner dudes are retreating back to their main bases.

[Hagar the Horrible]

2 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Seems the Wagner dudes are retreating back to their main bases.

So long as they are not fighting Ukranian forces. But to stay still will make them a target. They need to go all in now

[Mikey1874]

 

[Locky]

Ah well, that's kind of came to a shuddering halt. Not over of course, but will now be expecting any developments to be a lot more gradual.

 

Seems as though both camps will now be looking to enter negotiations. Still, what the outcome of that is, remains to be seen. As has been suggested, perhaps Pregozhin becomes more influential and has his demands met. Which does nothing at all for Ukraine.

[Cruyff]

Disappointing if true that Wagner have made a deal. 

[ToadKiller Dog]

Pregozhin by stopping is likely a dead man walking now .Putin will bide his time then take him out .

Then again his march on moscow was likely a death march anyways .

Still it shows Putin is weak .

[Mikey1874]

 

[Mikey1874]

Ukraine should bomb them as they return.

[Locky]

Just now, Cruyff said:

Disappointing if true that Wagner have made a deal. 

Very. Have to live in hope that Pregozhin ultimately does want peace and wants Russia to ultimately start preserving ties with the World again. But that's probably unlikely.