Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 I reckon this is over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 minute ago, Norm said: Nice to see the JTs at the party Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 "We are little-by-little running out of popcorn,” jokes Yuriy Sak, an adviser to Ukraine's defence minister. Sak has, like the rest of the world, been watching events unfold in Russia at an “unprecedented speed”. Speaking to BBC World Service Newshour, Saks says just before Russia began its 2022 attack on Ukraine the world thought Russia had “the second most powerful army in the world”. “Yesterday everybody knew that Russia was the second most powerful army in Ukraine and today we're seeing how... the Russian army is becoming the second most powerful army in Russia." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Despite Wagner's withdrawal of men and matériel from Ukraine, the Ukrainians would probably be wise to pause close combat engagement at the moment and carefully monitor the situation to see if there may be an opportunity for a less bloody conclusion to the war due to Russian withdrawal or even surrender. In saying that, explosions have just been reported in Berdyans'k so the long-range munitions or local partisans are still pressing on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Just now, Lovecraft said: "We are little-by-little running out of popcorn,” jokes Yuriy Sak, an adviser to Ukraine's defence minister. Sak has, like the rest of the world, been watching events unfold in Russia at an “unprecedented speed”. Speaking to BBC World Service Newshour, Saks says just before Russia began its 2022 attack on Ukraine the world thought Russia had “the second most powerful army in the world”. “Yesterday everybody knew that Russia was the second most powerful army in Ukraine and today we're seeing how... the Russian army is becoming the second most powerful army in Russia." Zing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: I reckon this is over Hopefully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) Puttin certainly sounds rattled if not a bit scared . Marshall law declared in some areas with 30 days detention . Dangers of getting carried away with the news in the west ,Putin is a surviver . The head of wagner group is acting in self interest ,and yet to be seen what if any support he has among lower level officers ,normal Russian (non wagner ) troops and the Russian public which he will need . Can't see the wagner group on its own achieve a revolution and change . That said the Ukraine invasion was always going to not end well for Putin long term . Edited June 24, 2023 by ToadKiller Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 minute ago, redjambo said: Despite Wagner's withdrawal of men and matériel from Ukraine, the Ukrainians would probably be wise to pause close combat engagement at the moment and carefully monitor the situation to see if there may be an opportunity for a less bloody conclusion to the war due to Russian withdrawal or even surrender. In saying that, explosions have just been reported in Berdyans'k so the long-range munitions or local partisans are still pressing on. I'm sure they will be getting far better information that is out to the public/news, so they will have a better idea what is happening on the ground. I can't imagine they will just recklessly push forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
periodictabledancer Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 15 minutes ago, Locky said: Just catching up with this on Twitter and the news in the last hour. Let me get this right: A private militia owned by a once friend of Putin, has revolted against the Kremlin and are perhaps looking to overthrow old Vlad and his cronies, and free the Russian people from his dictatorship. Or at the very least, demand the war stops. As a result, Lukashenko has shat it and fled Belarus because if Putin falls, there's every chance he falls too and Belarus too becomes free. Ukraine is no doubt monitoring closely and will look to assist Belarus with that very revolt should it look likely. Either way, Putin is looking very vulnerable here and this could ultimately ease a lot of the tension in Ukraine. Have I got that right? No, he's p'd off with the army top brass (Shoigu & Gerasimov) - at least that's what he's been saying, and he wants them removed. He hasn't publicly said anything about toppling Putin, he hasn't mentioned Putin by name at all- so far. Prighozin has repeatedly condemned the top brass as being useless- which has resulted (he claims) in him being robbed of much needed ammo and recently being subjected to air strikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 It has been reported that a large amount of cash has been found by authorities at Prigozhin’s St Petersburg office, totalling 4 billion roubles (£37 million). This perhaps illustrates that the "march" can't have been all that pre-planned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 19 minutes ago, Lovecraft said: And latest reports are Wee Putin has legged it. Brilliant. Really hope this is the beginning of the end for the conflict in Ukraine. Lukashenko and Putin getting launched would be the icing on the cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
periodictabledancer Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 13 minutes ago, Lovecraft said: "We are little-by-little running out of popcorn,” jokes Yuriy Sak, an adviser to Ukraine's defence minister. Sak has, like the rest of the world, been watching events unfold in Russia at an “unprecedented speed”. Speaking to BBC World Service Newshour, Saks says just before Russia began its 2022 attack on Ukraine the world thought Russia had “the second most powerful army in the world”. “Yesterday everybody knew that Russia was the second most powerful army in Ukraine and today we're seeing how... the Russian army is becoming the second most powerful army in Russia." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horatio Caine Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 BBC reporting that Putin's private jet has flown north-westwards but it's also true that his `country home` is north west of Moscow so it's probably better to assume he has gone there, rather than completely legged it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, Horatio Caine said: BBC reporting that Putin's private jet has flown north-westwards but it's also true that his `country home` is north west of Moscow so it's probably better to assume he has gone there, rather than completely legged it. Not sure that hiding on the Finnish border will help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 7 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said: No, he's p'd off with the army top brass (Shoigu & Gerasimov) - at least that's what he's been saying, and he wants them removed. He hasn't publicly said anything about toppling Putin, he hasn't mentioned Putin by name at all- so far. Prighozin has repeatedly condemned the top brass as being useless- which has resulted (he claims) in him being robbed of much needed ammo and recently being subjected to air strikes. He did comment that Putin was “deeply mistaken” to call his actions a betrayal, but that's pretty mild. He has had plenty opportunity to lay the boot into Putin and hasn't done so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie1874 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Things seem to be developing at pace and pretty mental claims on Twitter. That mental that I now wouldn’t be surprised to see Mr Romanov appear on the scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 13 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said: No, he's p'd off with the army top brass (Shoigu & Gerasimov) - at least that's what he's been saying, and he wants them removed. He hasn't publicly said anything about toppling Putin, he hasn't mentioned Putin by name at all- so far. Prighozin has repeatedly condemned the top brass as being useless- which has resulted (he claims) in him being robbed of much needed ammo and recently being subjected to air strikes. That makes sense. Although, while not maybe coming for Putin directly, if Prighozin's mission continues to progress, it's only going to end up with him and Putin ultimately coming to blows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
periodictabledancer Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, redjambo said: He did comment that Putin was “deeply mistaken” to call his actions a betrayal, but that's pretty mild. He has had plenty opportunity to lay the boot into Putin and hasn't done so. Pretty mild but possibly a serious mistake. He has to succeed (somehow) although what success would look like is anyone's guess. He's a marked man now after that remark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Are Wagner still pro Ukrai e war but anti Putins approach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 46 minutes ago, Pap said: Ukraine forces seemingly advancing in the Bakhmut area and in the Zaporozhzhia area without resistance. This is absolutely massive if true Just from a couple of unsourced Tweets. I just hope they can retake that massive nuclear power station smoothly. Has always worried me that the Russians might do something really stupid there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianajones Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 He'll end up in South America like the very nazis he claims to hate. Poetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 4 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: Are Wagner still pro Ukrai e war but anti Putins approach? He seems to be saying he didn't want the war with Ukraine and that the Russian Military leader Shoigu did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 6 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: Are Wagner still pro Ukrai e war but anti Putins approach? I don’t think anyone knows for sure tbh. But he did call it for what is was publicly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Lipetsk governor confirms Wagner is moving through region The governor of the Lipetsk region, Igor Artamonov, has confirmed that Wagner is moving "equipment" in the region. As we mentioned previously, a social media video - which the BBC verified - showed a Wagner convoy of armed vehicles travelling in the region of Lipetsk, which is located between the city of Voronezh and Moscow. Writing on social media, Artamonov said: "Law enforcement agencies and authorities... are taking all necessary measures to ensure the safety of the population. The situation is under control." Artamonov also reminded residents that "they are strongly advised not to leave their homes and avoid travelling by any means". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Looks like they are actually heading for Moscow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 I'm not going to speculate on any of this. I'm just going to watch it all unfold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 minute ago, periodictabledancer said: Pretty mild but possibly a serious mistake. He has to succeed (somehow) although what success would look like is anyone's guess. He's a marked man now after that remark. He was a marked man anyway, and it had been coming for a while. He's approaching it publicly from an "I'm selflessly doing this for the mother country, not because I want Putin to be replaced" position, and probably also still holds out some hope that Putin may turn on Shoigu so doesn't want to do anything that damages that possibility. Very small chance of that happening though, imo, as Putin will have to admit that he has been massively duped for a long period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianajones Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 9 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: Are Wagner still pro Ukrai e war but anti Putins approach? They are still odious scumbags yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sertse Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 7 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: Are Wagner still pro Ukrai e war but anti Putins approach? Sort of, it's pretty complicated. He said they have done as ordered but been betrayed by Moscow. My impression is he was pro war (means money for him) but was surprised at how corrupt it was, he routinely done videos showcasing Wagner dead and blaming Moscow for not giving them enough ammunition/shells etc. Part of me thinks that he believes they should be fighting the war his way. I don't think he'd want to continue it if he did take over power but he's pretty unhinged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 10 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: Are Wagner still pro Ukrai e war but anti Putins approach? I know nothing (ripe for a ftfy there) but I think from his pronouncements that he would probably withdraw the Russian army to the post-invasion 2014 borders if he had his way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Don't finish work till 9ish Hopefully the exciting stuff doesn't happen till I'm home in my garden enjoying a beer or 2 in the war. 20 degree heat forecast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sertse Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Would just add a bit of caution about claims folk will be seeing online. There's so much misinformation and accidental mistakes that rumours grow arms and legs very easily. Take Putin's plane. There's not actually any evidence he's left Moscow on that plane, even if it has left. Doesn't mean he wasn't but big difference between could have, likely has and definitely has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac_fae_Gillie Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 33 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said: No, he's p'd off with the army top brass (Shoigu & Gerasimov) - at least that's what he's been saying, and he wants them removed. He hasn't publicly said anything about toppling Putin, he hasn't mentioned Putin by name at all- so far. Prighozin has repeatedly condemned the top brass as being useless- which has resulted (he claims) in him being robbed of much needed ammo and recently being subjected to air strikes. If he names Putin he is declaring a coup, I think that is his end game just can't think how he thinks he can carry on if Putin remains in power after this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 These are the same boys that have been committing war crimes and crimes against humanity around the world for over a decade. Good guys they are not. They're just blowing up other bad guys right now instead of civilians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 7 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: Don't finish work till 9ish Hopefully the exciting stuff doesn't happen till I'm home in my garden enjoying a beer or 2 in the war. 20 degree heat forecast. I'll try to get them to hold off for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Putin will be okay. He has Steven Seagal on his side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 6 minutes ago, Sertse said: That was unexpectedly quick if true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 minute ago, redjambo said: That was unexpectedly quick if true. How many Russian soldiers are defecting or just letting them through is the key factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sertse Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 8 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said: Would just add a bit of caution about claims folk will be seeing online. There's so much misinformation and accidental mistakes that rumours grow arms and legs very easily. Take Putin's plane. There's not actually any evidence he's left Moscow on that plane, even if it has left. Doesn't mean he wasn't but big difference between could have, likely has and definitely has. It switched it's tracking off after leaving Moscow apparently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 4 minutes ago, redjambo said: That was unexpectedly quick if true. All Russian troops are in Ukraine or Syria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 29 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: Are Wagner still pro Ukrai e war but anti Putins approach? 24 minutes ago, Lovecraft said: He seems to be saying he didn't want the war with Ukraine and that the Russian Military leader Shoigu did. 18 minutes ago, Sertse said: Sort of, it's pretty complicated. He said they have done as ordered but been betrayed by Moscow. My impression is he was pro war (means money for him) but was surprised at how corrupt it was, he routinely done videos showcasing Wagner dead and blaming Moscow for not giving them enough ammunition/shells etc. Part of me thinks that he believes they should be fighting the war his way. I don't think he'd want to continue it if he did take over power but he's pretty unhinged. From what I've read and gathered, private militia companies like Wagner are actually illegal in Russia. Their very existence is aided by the previous close bond Prigozhin and Putin had. They've obviously towed the line and did whatever Russia needed and wanted them to do up until now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Wagner fighters reportedly offered amnesty if they surrender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, Sertse said: It switched it's tracking off after leaving Moscow apparently Lukashenko's plane turned tracking off during the entire time it was over Russian airspace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 minute ago, Locky said: Lukashenko's plane turned tracking off during the entire time it was over Russian airspace. Whole family been taken to Turkey. Something big is going down, could be a bluff while they all disappear and blow up that Nuclear Power Plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 2 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: Wouldn’t want to be a Russian citizen in Ukraine when this is all over Are you saying Putin was right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 38 minutes ago, redjambo said: He did comment that Putin was “deeply mistaken” to call his actions a betrayal, but that's pretty mild. He has had plenty opportunity to lay the boot into Putin and hasn't done so. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that Prigozhin ends up striking a pact with his pal Putin ? Something along the lines of "You fire all your the senior military top-brass like Shoigu, put me in charge of all Russian Defence and military decisions, and in return Wagner allows you to remain President." At the end of the day, his anger is at the senior military generals who were too scared to tell Putin the truth about the limitations the Russian army had to sustain an invasion of Ukraine - and he runs an army of convicts & thugs who perform much better than the Russian army units do. I find it hard to believe he's actually wanting to become the new Russian President himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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