Walker off the wage bill in January......? ( merged )

[davemclaren]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

😂 aye, wrong choice of words from me. We do need to be more clinical up front though. McKay was unlikely to be the guy to help us with that, considering his career goal scoring record. He’s a provider and players like Boyce, Walker and our new penalty box striker in January, will love to play with him. 

I don’t disagree with the sentiment. 😄

[sadj]

1 hour ago, A.JAMBO said:

But we did score though, was also 0-0 before the game started, should we include that as well.

Oh no we shouldn't, that would mean we won 3 points.

 

You are Bongoesque in your ability to argue with an empty room about shite

[A.JAMBO]

1 minute ago, sadj said:

You are Bongoesque in your ability to argue with an empty room about shite

Shite...

You didn't need to reply though, also it is a fact we won the game 0-1

Any other talk is Shite

Edited December 20, 2021 by A.JAMBO

[The Grim Reaper]

1 hour ago, A.JAMBO said:

We won the 3 points, the rest is irrelevant and meaningless, unless there is an agenda. I will take the 3 points gained point of view , as that is the Facts.

Not  according to some so called JKB facts though, oh no what if and buts is way more important.

 

What’s his agenda?

[A.JAMBO]

2 minutes ago, The Grim Reaper said:

What’s his agenda?

To annoy people 

[Bazzas right boot]

28 minutes ago, Lfhearts said:

That's a classic.

 

 

He is. 

 

Look at the stats posted earlier. 

I also have eyes and seen him play. 

 

Cracking wee player 

[Fozzyonthefence]

7 minutes ago, The Grim Reaper said:

What’s his agenda?

**** knows, I can’t understand his ramblings.  This is is a thread about Jamie Walker and I was making the point about the positive impact JW made by scoring a late winner and earning us an extra 2 points compared to the 0-0 it was heading for. For some strange reason he’s taken that as a negative dig at Hearts but I’ve no idea why.  He’s coming out with the same pish on the Dundee match thread too, it’s illogical and tiresome so I popped him on ignore.  Can’t be arsed with it on a Monday!

Edited December 20, 2021 by Fozzyonthefence

[Busby8]

2 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

**** knows, I can’t understand his ramblings.  This is is a thread about Jamie Walker and I was making the point about the positive impact JW made by scoring a late winner and earning us an extra 2 points compared to the 0-0 it was heading for. For some strange reason he’s taken that as a negative dig at Hearts but I’ve no idea why.  He’s coming out with the same pish on the Dundee match thread too, it’s illogical and tiresome so I popped him on ignore.  Can’t be arsed with it on a Monday!

 

That's exactly how it reads to me too.

 

I've tried to follow the other perspective with an open view, but it still defies all logic, ( and arithmetic).

 

.

 

 

[Busby8]

37 minutes ago, Lfhearts said:

That's a classic.

 

It's classically correct

[PapaShango]

I would keep him. As much as he can frustrate at times and go missing, what isn't in question is the fact he has contributed more than the likes of Woodburn and Gino. Neither of them have delivered but Jamie does come up with big goals and is proven at this level. Lacks pace but more than makes up for it with some of the goals he can produce. 

[The Grim Reaper]

8 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

**** knows, I can’t understand his ramblings.  This is is a thread about Jamie Walker and I was making the point about the positive impact JW made by scoring a late winner and earning us an extra 2 points compared to the 0-0 it was heading for. For some strange reason he’s taken that as a negative dig at Hearts but I’ve no idea why.  He’s coming out with the same pish on the Dundee match thread too, it’s illogical and tiresome so I popped him on ignore.  Can’t be arsed with it on a Monday!

I think everyone else understands the point you made. 

[Pasquale for King]

I would be inclined to keep him for exactly the situation we had on Saturday, but if the manager isn’t going to give him the chance to do that it might be better to get someone else in who he will. 

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I would be inclined to keep him for exactly the situation we had on Saturday, but if the manager isn’t going to give him the chance to do that it might be better to get someone else in who he will. 

My thoughts as well. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

I would be inclined to keep him for exactly the situation we had on Saturday, but if the manager isn’t going to give him the chance to do that it might be better to get someone else in who he will. 

Yep, coming on with 20/30 minutes to go he could be very effective as he proved on Saturday.   Not the long term answer but deserves as much of a chance than the others who haven’t been doing it.  It’s frustrating when you look at some of the games we’ve dropped points and the chances we missed in these games (Dundee, Hibs at home, St Johnstone, Celtic away all spring to mind) - 3 draws and a defeat there but all games we missed great chances in, the kind that JW has scored in the past.  

[Pasquale for King]

13 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Yep, coming on with 20/30 minutes to go he could be very effective as he proved on Saturday.   Not the long term answer but deserves as much of a chance than the others who haven’t been doing it.  It’s frustrating when you look at some of the games we’ve dropped points and the chances we missed in these games (Dundee, Hibs at home, St Johnstone, Celtic away all spring to mind) - 3 draws and a defeat there but all games we missed great chances in, the kind that JW has scored in the past.  

Definitely 

[Chillidigits]

With Boyce struggling with niggles does Jaimie get the nod over Gnando ?

[sadj]

3 hours ago, A.JAMBO said:

Shite...

You didn't need to reply though, also it is a fact we won the game 0-1

Any other talk is Shite

😴😴😴 Thats def bongoesque 

 

You stick to your incoherent non-factual ramblings 👍🏻

[feedthefox]

5 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Nah, we can't have forwards that don't score goals. 

 

If Boyce could take even 2 out of every 5 chances then McKay's contribution wouldn't be under quite as much scrutiny. 

[bmeikle]

Surely we can't let Walker leave in January and give this guy chance after chance?

 

https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/ben-woodburn-flattering-deceive-hearts-22524091

[Thomaso]

5 hours ago, A.JAMBO said:

We won the 3 points, the rest is irrelevant and meaningless, unless there is an agenda. I will take the 3 points gained point of view , as that is the Facts.

Not  according to some so called JKB facts though, oh no what if and buts is way more important.

 

Doh! He mentioned 2 points not 3 points as the difference between winning the game and drawing the game.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

5 hours ago, bobby bombscare said:

Absolutely spot on. If we had a player of McKay's quality that was also banging in goals at the same time, they would be gone by the end of the season. 

This is one of those situations we have in the midfield. We have beni, who is solid in almost everything he does, box to box, high energy and can pick out the right passes and can put a tackle in at the right time, he won't shoot though. Devlin will run around all day, harass the opposition and when on the ball, can pick out just the right pass at times to get something going. again, not a goal scorer though. Then you have Harring who is the most solid defensively and is an anchor between the defence and the midfield. With an excellent passing range and the ability to pick out some excellent long passes. Good with his head in the box too but again, not one for shooting! 

McEnefff brings the goal threat, but he doesn't harass like devlin, he isn't great in defence but is one of the best at running with the ball and is a real goal threat. Walker does the basics well and can get the ball on the move. he can disappear for 70 mins and then produce 2 moments of magic to put you 2-0 up... 

If we had someone with all those qualities, they would be in the Prem. It is a case of finding the right balance between them on a given day.

I think we have a great squad at the moment, especially with the depth. I think that's why, for me, there is no clear first team at the moment. On my opinion, the midfield (and wingers) you pick are very much dependant on the team you are playing against. If i learned anything under the Levein era, it's that good players can be made look bad if they are having to rely on their weakest attributes. 

 

This is a good post and a good synopsis of why Walker at this point in his career is a very limited player but probably should make more appearances for us.

 

We have a wide range of players who do a great many things well but have "but can't shoot" tacked onto the end.

 

Walker's description is that he disappears forever but is lethal in the right moment.

 

My experience with coaches personally is that they always have a bit of a blind spot for positions they didn't play. I think Robbie understands defence and midfield about as well as anyone in Scotland but the art of finishing a chance is one he doesn't really have an eye for. So he fills the squad each week with players full of graft, defence, movement, and effort, but doesn't keep enough clinical finishers on the pitch.

 

We could do a lot worse than just throwing on Walker as the third sub at 75' every game where we need a late goal.

[chrisyboy7]

I'm so happy for Jamie....I hope he grabs his chance....

[Canscot]

27 minutes ago, chrisyboy7 said:

I'm so happy for Jamie....I hope he grabs his chance....

I think he has made a statement to be played more. What more can he do?  Came on, scored the winner.  Problem is will Robbie acknowledge that Jamie has made enough of a statement?

I guess we will find out next game. 
Imo he should maybe get at least the second half of the next game to come on and show what he can bring. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

I'm a big Walker fan but he frustrates me. Can only imagine how much he frustrates Neilson who will know better than anyone what he's capable of. Off the bench though Walker is a great option - a genuine match winner. As a starter though he obviously hasn't convinced the coaches of his fitness or ability to have the same impact over 90 mins. Would definitely keep him for the rest of this season at least as a supersub at least. Would hate to see him banging in the goals for another team that don't have as many options in place of him as we do.

 

The thing is McKay has been playing the Walker role and his all round play and impact is much better, aside form his woeful finishing at times. As a finisher though Walker is one of the best at the club.

[Lfhearts]

5 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

He is. 

 

Look at the stats posted earlier. 

I also have eyes and seen him play. 

 

Cracking wee player 

Did you see him at Fir Park or Aberdeen in particular ie his cameo in corner before Halliday got red, no I thought not. 

[Bazzas right boot]

10 minutes ago, Lfhearts said:

Did you see him at Fir Park or Aberdeen in particular ie his cameo in corner before Halliday got red, no I thought not. 

 

[Tokyo Drifter]

Jamie and McEneff are the only midfielders with goals in them. We need to stick with both of them. McEneff should be starting and Jamie should at least be used coming off the bench. He has proved himself as an impact player season after season.

[vegas-voss]

On 19/12/2021 at 10:07, Bull's-eye said:

 

My post could refer to a number of players but as this ones about JW I was talking about him specifically. 

 

He's a favourite son, bleeds Maroon etc etc. . I get it. 

 

But the point stands, he's not good enough consistently and never has been, he didn't contribute anything getting us into 3rd,  never mind challenging above that, which is surely our goal. No ?

He didn't but he might have.Thibk of dropped points to County and Dundee for starters 

[Debut 4]

13 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Could woulda should.... all very well showing some nice touches 30 yards from goal but he needs to start scoring goals, 15 and 0 isn't good enough for a forward player no matter how you want to dress it up.

Agree.  There’s too much of this viewing players as constructive 30,40 yards from goal. I totally get it takes different types of player to make a team but I prefer a player with an eye for space, intelligence and a mindset who wants to get into dangerous positions which are telling.  
 

Too often the starting positions of Mackay and GMS are too far from the box.  They need to have the mindset to get further up earlier, show at bit more tenacity around the box and actually look interested in the ball there.

 

I expect midfielders to do what they do and feed the danger men in and around the box , but they aren’t midfielders.  Every player has shown something and played their part so far but if Mackay is being lauded the way he is as some major influential player, his goal return needs to start sometime.  Afterall, he’s an attacker. 

[Musemic]

If his wage demands are realistic for a player who will not play a full part going forward I can see the chance of him being offered another couple of years but imo I'd rather the wages were spent on someone who can offer more than a few cameos off the bench

 

[Gorgieshed]

7 hours ago, Chillidigits said:

With Boyce struggling with niggles does Jaimie get the nod over Gnando ?

Id rather start myself up top before Gnando. So the answer to ur question is 100% yes.

[gregzy2k7]

Would like to see him get at least the last 30 mins against Ross County if not whole second half.

If we don't have boyce I think this team for Sunday would be quite effective up front

 

Gordon

Souttar Halkett Moore 

Smith Haring Mceneff Cochrane

McKay

Walker GMS

 

Maybe with Woodburn starting and Walker replacing him after 60.

 

[Diego10]

6 hours ago, feedthefox said:

 

If Boyce could take even 2 out of every 5 chances then McKay's contribution wouldn't be under quite as much scrutiny. 

Given Robert Lewandowski's conversion rate is 35% and Erling Haaland's is 30%, if Boyce could take 2 out of every 5 chances he'd be the most efficient striker in Europe.

[Hectormasson]

10 hours ago, PapaShango said:

I would keep him. As much as he can frustrate at times and go missing, what isn't in question is the fact he has contributed more than the likes of Woodburn and Gino. Neither of them have delivered but Jamie does come up with big goals and is proven at this level. Lacks pace but more than makes up for it with some of the goals he can produce. 

Walker must stay, can and would become a very important player for us, saying that there's at least3 I'd like binned  right now  , but that's up to our coach, and others at the club  we've not done too badly, for just coming up  , let's hope January sees us bring at least one bit quality in .

 

 

[Cruyff]

7 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

Agree.  There’s too much of this viewing players as constructive 30,40 yards from goal. I totally get it takes different types of player to make a team but I prefer a player with an eye for space, intelligence and a mindset who wants to get into dangerous positions which are telling.  
 

Too often the starting positions of Mackay and GMS are too far from the box.  They need to have the mindset to get further up earlier, show at bit more tenacity around the box and actually look interested in the ball there.

 

I expect midfielders to do what they do and feed the danger men in and around the box , but they aren’t midfielders.  Every player has shown something and played their part so far but if Mackay is being lauded the way he is as some major influential player, his goal return needs to start sometime.  Afterall, he’s an attacker. 

Spot on mate. 👍

[Cruyff]

6 hours ago, Diego10 said:

Given Robert Lewandowski's conversion rate is 35% and Erling Haaland's is 30%, if Boyce could take 2 out of every 5 chances he'd be the most efficient striker in Europe.

[King prawn]

8 hours ago, gregzy2k7 said:

Would like to see him get at least the last 30 mins against Ross County if not whole second half.

If we don't have boyce I think this team for Sunday would be quite effective up front

 

Gordon

Souttar Halkett Moore 

Smith Haring Mceneff Cochrane

McKay

Walker GMS

 

Maybe with Woodburn starting and Walker replacing him after 60.

 

That is an incredibly lightweight team

[King prawn]

8 hours ago, Diego10 said:

Given Robert Lewandowski's conversion rate is 35% and Erling Haaland's is 30%, if Boyce could take 2 out of every 5 chances he'd be the most efficient striker in Europe.

 

[scottg71]

Loan offers on the table from Livi, St Johnstone and Bradford.

[Bazzas right boot]

10 hours ago, Diego10 said:

Given Robert Lewandowski's conversion rate is 35% and Erling Haaland's is 30%, if Boyce could take 2 out of every 5 chances he'd be the most efficient striker in Europe.

 

Some Folk have realism or context.

Just pluck stuff from the air and state it as some kind of fact or measure.

 

[Chillidigits]

11 hours ago, Gorgieshed said:

Id rather start myself up top before Gnando. So the answer to ur question is 100% yes.

I agree but it's funny though. If Gnando came on and changed the game scoring a vital goal like Jaimie did I can just see everyone welcoming him back into the fold at the same time reserving the right to shoot him down if he fails to show up in his next game. They will also extend the same treatment to Walker however at least Walker can find the net. Gnando can't even find the stadium.

[TheBigO]

21 hours ago, E3OBE said:

I'm going to stick up for the forwards here - I think our formation/personnel doesn't really help our forward players at the moment. It makes us fairly solid but going forward I think we're asking quite a lot from the front three.

 

We play a back three with "wingbacks".. Other than maybe Cochrane, we don't have a proper wingback at the club. None of our centre midfielders (maybe other than McAneff) can be considered attack minded so if our wingbacks are not getting forward fast enough and our centre midfielders aren't getting forward, our front three just get outnumbered constantly.

 

We should be all over the wingback area in the January Transfer Window. I like the formation but it needs proper wingbacks.

That's my view too.

 

This isn't a go at Robbie and his tactics are more in depth than this, but the overriding philiosphy from his two stints are have a sold base and then have a couple of guys who will hopefully pull something out the bag.

 

This season I've seen something more of a considered approach to our attacking (like our wingbacks and centre halves overlapping, and like a couple of games when Beni and Cam were used high up the pitch to keep teams penned in), but all in all the squad is still built as you say - a pretty clear division of solid and then 3 guys expected to do it themselves.

 

Perhaps (hopefully) this isn't by design.  I like that if we don't get or find the player we want, we won't sign just anyone.  That was the folly of the last few years.  Perhaps we wanted a RWB but couldn't muster one up.  If we had a RWB in the mould of CP of old or a Demi Mitchell type (without the inuries!) we'd be laughing and it'd make a HUGE difference to our team.  Energy and drive out wide would help every single player in our team but especially our forward 3.

[ford donald]

19 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

 

This is a good post and a good synopsis of why Walker at this point in his career is a very limited player but probably should make more appearances for us.

 

We have a wide range of players who do a great many things well but have "but can't shoot" tacked onto the end.

 

Walker's description is that he disappears forever but is lethal in the right moment.

 

My experience with coaches personally is that they always have a bit of a blind spot for positions they didn't play. I think Robbie understands defence and midfield about as well as anyone in Scotland but the art of finishing a chance is one he doesn't really have an eye for. So he fills the squad each week with players full of graft, defence, movement, and effort, but doesn't keep enough clinical finishers on the pitch.

 

We could do a lot worse than just throwing on Walker as the third sub at 75' every game where we need a late goal.

Using JW for the last 30min of a game would be my answer,he knows where the goals are and is always liable to pop up with a goal,not suitable for 90min play,Give him a years contract.

[DC_92]

14 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

Agree.  There’s too much of this viewing players as constructive 30,40 yards from goal. I totally get it takes different types of player to make a team but I prefer a player with an eye for space, intelligence and a mindset who wants to get into dangerous positions which are telling.  
 

Too often the starting positions of Mackay and GMS are too far from the box.  They need to have the mindset to get further up earlier, show at bit more tenacity around the box and actually look interested in the ball there.

 

I expect midfielders to do what they do and feed the danger men in and around the box , but they aren’t midfielders.  Every player has shown something and played their part so far but if Mackay is being lauded the way he is as some major influential player, his goal return needs to start sometime.  Afterall, he’s an attacker. 

 

 

I'm not really having this "30/40 yards from goal" stuff as if his contribution is all nebulous, ineffective fluff. McKay has the ability to see and execute penetrative passes and crosses which find players in dangerous positions. He has created good chances in just about every game. That is being constructive.

 

I'd also like him to be better at the other side of the attacking game - getting into scoring positions and finishing. 0 goals isn't a good return and Walker and even GMS are better at this. The flip-side of that is that neither they, nor anyone else on the team, have McKay's ability to create for others. It takes different qualities to win games. Against Dundee it was Walker being in the right place at the right time. Against Livi it was a deft touch from McKay which unlocked the defence.

 

It's also worth considering whether a more complete player would have found himself back in the Scottish Premiership. I'd say probably not, and I can't remember the last attacker we had who fitted that description, which is why you have to build your team around a mix of attributes. McKay combined with a 2016 Jamie Walker could be a very effective attack, for example. 2 Walkers or 2 McKays probably less so.

 

It's worth mentioning that this discussion didn't start with someone saying McKay is amazing, it started with someone saying he does nothing. He's not amazing and he isn't above criticism, but I don't agree that his contributions amount to nothing.

[Debut 4]

4 hours ago, DC_92 said:

 

 

I'm not really having this "30/40 yards from goal" stuff as if his contribution is all nebulous, ineffective fluff. McKay has the ability to see and execute penetrative passes and crosses which find players in dangerous positions. He has created good chances in just about every game. That is being constructive.

 

I'd also like him to be better at the other side of the attacking game - getting into scoring positions and finishing. 0 goals isn't a good return and Walker and even GMS are better at this. The flip-side of that is that neither they, nor anyone else on the team, have McKay's ability to create for others. It takes different qualities to win games. Against Dundee it was Walker being in the right place at the right time. Against Livi it was a deft touch from McKay which unlocked the defence.

 

It's also worth considering whether a more complete player would have found himself back in the Scottish Premiership. I'd say probably not, and I can't remember the last attacker we had who fitted that description, which is why you have to build your team around a mix of attributes. McKay combined with a 2016 Jamie Walker could be a very effective attack, for example. 2 Walkers or 2 McKays probably less so.

 

It's worth mentioning that this discussion didn't start with someone saying McKay is amazing, it started with someone saying he does nothing. He's not amazing and he isn't above criticism, but I don't agree that his contributions amount to nothing.

I never said he hasn’t played a part but I’m also not having players need to be complete to have the mindset to be more effective.  It’s often the tagline now that, “he would’nt be at Hearts if he was etc etc…”.  
 

We’ve had players who’ve had all round ability. Of course, every player has strengths and weaknesses but mindset can be the biggest difference, or hindrance, depending.  
 

You see a change in players all the time in the game when different manager gets a hold of them and entices different aspects from players. (I’m not suggesting sacking Neilson!😛).  
 

 A 2016 Walker had Nicholson and both were better (imo) than what we are producing just now.  Esp at Tynie, both players got close to the 18 yard box and did their work there, quite often getting to the byline.  

Edited December 21, 2021 by Debut 4