Dot Count - Hearts v Rangers | 12th December 2021

[JayTeeJnr]

12 minutes ago, JALBO said:

 

...I pretty much just answered this - see my reply to @David McCaig

 

Thanks @JALBO - I wasn't aware of that although I seem to remember some shenanigans at one of the Hibs game a couple of years ago

 

It always surprises me that we have various sections empty in games (lower L and M in Roseburn and lower/left of T?). I've been to many Arsenal games, including against Spurs and the segregation gaps are minimal ... but with stewards employed between fans

Edited December 8, 2021 by JayTeeJnr

[scott herbertson]

17 minutes ago, JALBO said:

 

My recollection is that, several years ago, the club took a dim view of activities that were deemed to have taken place in that section. They stopped all ticket sales in lower G, and did not make seats available for season tickets, except for those who already held season tickets in that area.

 

I suppose the only surprise is why they have opened sales now, in a high profile game versus Rangers, when they could have trial-ed the reopening during a Cat B fixture. However, I think it's a welcome move all the same.

 

I'm pretty sure I've seen visiting groups (orchestral bands, youth groups military etc)  there once or twice. Most hospitality businesses keep a few blocks of  seats back for contingencies/ visiting parties. We used to do that years ago when I worked in the Festival Box Office

[The Gorgie]

Lower G & N had a ticket ban and only season ticket holders that were already there allowed in. Hopefully this is the end of that.

[SUTOL]

59 minutes ago, JALBO said:

 

My recollection is that, several years ago, the club took a dim view of activities that were deemed to have taken place in that section. They stopped all ticket sales in lower G, and did not make seats available for season tickets, except for those who already held season tickets in that area.

 

I suppose the only surprise is why they have opened sales now, in a high profile game versus Rangers, when they could have trial-ed the reopening during a Cat B fixture. However, I think it's a welcome move all the same.

 

With Rangers not getting the full Roseburn then the flash point isn't there now. 

But no reason it wasn't opened earlier in the season as well. 

[Silverwolf]

7 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

With Rangers not getting the full Roseburn then the flash point isn't there now. 

But no reason it wasn't opened earlier in the season as well. 

There remains the significant risk that substantial numbers of home tickets (including in areas of concentration) have been sold to to Away fans. Hopefully the controls in place including pre-Registration will limit this but you should never underestimate the ability of people to fool the system.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

Re segregation- in this day and age it can’t be that difficult or expensive to get flexible and temporary or semi-permanent segregation in place in a stand that isn’t a massive cut of tarpaulin.

[luckydug]

13 minutes ago, Silverwolf said:

There remains the significant risk that substantial numbers of home tickets (including in areas of concentration) have been sold to to Away fans. Hopefully the controls in place including pre-Registration will limit this but you should never underestimate the ability of people to fool the system.

I sit two rows behind hospitality if the guy sitting next to me is a Hun he runs the risk of getting chucked out. 

If he paid the extra for hospitality he could sit in near enough the same area and it would be OK. 

Hospitality clients are just as capable of causing trouble as anyone else imo. 

Remember the 2019 SC Final and the dust up in the main stand hospitality area. 🤔

[Silverwolf]

12 minutes ago, luckydug said:

I sit two rows behind hospitality if the guy sitting next to me is a Hun he runs the risk of getting chucked out. 

If he paid the extra for hospitality he could sit in near enough the same area and it would be OK. 

Hospitality clients are just as capable of causing trouble as anyone else imo. 

Remember the 2019 SC Final and the dust up in the main stand hospitality area. 🤔

Agreed. Where there are individual away fans who have bought tickets, these can be dealt with. 
 

Of greater concern to me is the potential of a social media enabled, coordinated effort to secure tickets in the Hearts section of the Roseburn. If they get even a couple of hundred in, it will be much more difficult to eject them.

[David McCaig]

25 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Re segregation- in this day and age it can’t be that difficult or expensive to get flexible and temporary or semi-permanent segregation in place in a stand that isn’t a massive cut of tarpaulin.

I was thinking a mesh over the segregated seats rather than a tarpaulin which can easily be pushed back.

[Doctor FinnBarr]

16 minutes ago, Silverwolf said:

Agreed. Where there are individual away fans who have bought tickets, these can be dealt with. 
 

Of greater concern to me is the potential of a social media enabled, coordinated effort to secure tickets in the Hearts section of the Roseburn. If they get even a couple of hundred in, it will be much more difficult to eject them.

 

If they manage to get even a 100 in I fear there will be serious disorder which no doubt will bring SPFL/SFA sanctions on us.

[Silverwolf]

12 minutes ago, FinnBarr Saunders said:

 

If they manage to get even a 100 in I fear there will be serious disorder which no doubt will bring SPFL/SFA sanctions on us.

There will certainly be disorder when the Jambos win!!

[mitch41]

4 hours ago, David McCaig said:

Considerably less seats than a G4S tarpaulin. An entire section is complete overkill relative to the segregation in place when we go to Ibrox.

Very true Section K should be sold for Hearts fans. Rangers would have half of section L and all of section M. That would leave a segregation area in the other half of section L. I can’t see why that is impossible to satisfy all parties like the clubs, police, G45, H&S etc. 

[SUTOL]

27 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Very true Section K should be sold for Hearts fans. Rangers would have half of section L and all of section M. That would leave a segregation area in the other half of section L. I can’t see why that is impossible to satisfy all parties like the clubs, police, G45, H&S etc. 

 

I'm not sure what the segregation arrangement is on the concourse of the Roseburn Stand, but it may be due to access to facilities (toilets, kiosks etc) that they can't increase the number of home supporters into section K. 

 

Or possibly it's just security/police who have advised the club how large a segregation section they need in place. 

[JH-HMFC]

Most of lower G is now available - c'mon folks let's get this sold out!

Edited December 8, 2021 by JH-HMFC

[JALBO]

Today's teatime numbers:

 

Main: 12

Gorgie: 23

Wheatfield: 129

Roseburn: 131

 

LEFT: 295

 

As mentioned by several posters throughout the day, the club have released additional seats in Upper X, Upper S and (for the first time in a couple of years) are accepting sales in Lower G. These additional 170 seats have wiped out todays sales of around 150, but it's a positive - we're still entirely likely to shift all these, and selling in Lower G is improving our effective capacity by around 120.

 

[Homme]

Hopefully there will still be a good few kicking around tomorrow night as that's when I find out if I'll be able to make it or not.

[heartsfc_fan]

We should be looking at least 18,500 for this one?

[luckydug]

3 hours ago, mitch41 said:

Very true Section K should be sold for Hearts fans. Rangers would have half of section L and all of section M. That would leave a segregation area in the other half of section L. I can’t see why that is impossible to satisfy all parties like the clubs, police, G45, H&S etc. 

A lot of these decisions are taken out of the club's hands. 

[chrisyboy7]

32 minutes ago, heartsfc_fan said:

We should be looking at least 18,500 for this one?

where are the 1600 seats gonna be?

[chrisyboy7]

Stadiums too small for big games

[davemclaren]

4 minutes ago, chrisyboy7 said:

Stadiums too small for big games

We haven’t sold it out yet. 

[Boab]

3 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

We haven’t sold it out yet. 

Totally agree, Dave, but there is a strange conundrum when I think about this. If Tynecastle held 30K, I'm pretty confident we would have shifted well over 20K by now. 

One to debate but I feel if we consistently perform well, the issue of capacity will come up more often !

 

[GavK1012]

11 minutes ago, chrisyboy7 said:

Stadiums too small for big games

It's really not, but this thread ain't designed for that tired old chat....

[Thomaso]

11 minutes ago, Boab said:

Totally agree, Dave, but there is a strange conundrum when I think about this. If Tynecastle held 30K, I'm pretty confident we would have shifted well over 20K by now. 

One to debate but I feel if we consistently perform well, the issue of capacity will come up more often !

 

Sorry I don’t get your 30k comment - what’s your reasoning on that? 🤔

[AlphonseCapone]

Stadium size is fine. 30k is insane. I don't fancy a stadium with 15k empty seats when we're playing shite. 

[Boab]

13 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Sorry I don’t get your 30k comment - what’s your reasoning on that? 🤔

Simply, if the capacity of Tynecastle was 30K instead of 20K, we would have shifted a lot more tickets.

Not this game in isolation. A consistent Hearts in the future and the poster's comment above doesn't seem so daft !

[David McCaig]

44 minutes ago, chrisyboy7 said:

where are the 1600 seats gonna be?

The real capacity is about 19,300 minus 800 seats for segregation 

[Boab]

2 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

Stadium size is fine. 30k is insane. I don't fancy a stadium with 15k empty seats when we're playing shite. 

I hear that, mate. 

I've spent a good chunk of my supporting Hearts in a half full stadium . We can but dream of bigger things.

 

[Rogue Daddy]

3 minutes ago, Boab said:

I hear that, mate. 

I've spent a good chunk of my supporting Hearts in a half full stadium . We can but dream of bigger things.

 

I get where you’re coming from, when we played in the league at Murrayfield, we had an attendance of nearly 33,000 v Rangers… not sure of the split, but generally, if there’s more room (or more ‘better’ seats) that alone will entice more fans IMO. We were in 6th place also, not going well in 3rd - Lafferty scored that raker!

[Boab]

Just now, Rogue Daddy said:

I get where you’re coming from, when we played in the league at Murrayfield, we had an attendance of nearly 33,000 v Rangers… not sure of the split, but generally, if there’s more room (or more ‘better’ seats) that alone will entice more fans IMO. We were in 6th place also, not going well in 3rd - Lafferty scored that raker!

What I was alluding to, mate !

👍

[Rocky jamboa]

20,000 capacity more than enough for us. Any big games, such as euro ties, can be moved to murrayfield. 

 

I'd prefer a close to capacity, good atmosphere for pretty much all our games, as opposed to half empty stadiums every week, plus having to give more tickets to the OF, to help us sell out. 

[ramrod]

I reckon we are about 3 k short of the ideal capacity 

23k would be perfect imo

[The Gorgie]

If we can continue to be strong in the league and more Hearts fans want to attend then we simply cut the away allocation back to just the 1 section.

[Gorgie_Rules]

58 minutes ago, Paulp74 said:

20,000 capacity more than enough for us. Any big games, such as euro ties, can be moved to murrayfield. 

 

I'd prefer a close to capacity, good atmosphere for pretty much all our games, as opposed to half empty stadiums every week, plus having to give more tickets to the OF, to help us sell out. 

Much rather euro ties at Tynecastle. It’s a unique stadium and gives us an advantage on the field.

 

Plus Murrayfield is awful for football. Its a debate to be had next season if we do reach the group stages (which is likely if we finish third), but i’d hope we’d prioritise going further in the competition than the larger gate money. 
 

I’d happily pay a bit more for the package of x3 tickets at Tynecastle if need be.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Gorgie_Rules

[JayTeeJnr]

1 hour ago, Rogue Daddy said:

I get where you’re coming from, when we played in the league at Murrayfield, we had an attendance of nearly 33,000 v Rangers… not sure of the split, but generally, if there’s more room (or more ‘better’ seats) that alone will entice more fans IMO. We were in 6th place also, not going well in 3rd - Lafferty scored that raker!

That attendance included something like 12k Rangers fans. On the way to the game I remember going in on the Corstorphine road and the place was rammed with them and their coaches - I wouldn’t fancy that on any kind of regular basis.

 

I like the idea of as few of them as possible at Tynecastle regardless of whether we lose out on some potential income.

[soonbe110]

28 minutes ago, Gorgie_Rules said:

Much rather euro ties at Tynecastle. It’s a unique stadium and gives us an advantage on the field.

 

Plus Murrayfield is awful for football. Its a debate to be had next season if we do reach the group stages (which is likely if we finish third), but i’d hope we’d prioritise going further in the competition than the larger gate money. 
 

I’d happily pay a bit more for the package of x3 tickets at Tynecastle if need be.

The prize-money outweighs the increased gate money significantly so hopefully that’s what we would go for. 

[Rocky jamboa]

43 minutes ago, Gorgie_Rules said:

Much rather euro ties at Tynecastle. It’s a unique stadium and gives us an advantage on the field.

 

Plus Murrayfield is awful for football. Its a debate to be had next season if we do reach the group stages (which is likely if we finish third), but i’d hope we’d prioritise going further in the competition than the larger gate money. 
 

I’d happily pay a bit more for the package of x3 tickets at Tynecastle if need be.

Yeah I'd probably agree. Would prefer a packed out Tynie than a half full 35,000 at murrayfield. 

[Thomaso]

3 hours ago, Boab said:

Simply, if the capacity of Tynecastle was 30K instead of 20K, we would have shifted a lot more tickets.

Not this game in isolation. A consistent Hearts in the future and the poster's comment above doesn't seem so daft !

Surely if only 18,000 wanted to buy a ticket, the fact that we had a 30,000 stadium would not encourage those who chose not to buy a ticket for a 20,000 stadium? 🤷‍♂️

[Thomaso]

3 hours ago, Rogue Daddy said:

I get where you’re coming from, when we played in the league at Murrayfield, we had an attendance of nearly 33,000 v Rangers… not sure of the split, but generally, if there’s more room (or more ‘better’ seats) that alone will entice more fans IMO. We were in 6th place also, not going well in 3rd - Lafferty scored that raker!

A team winning and playing entertaining football sells more seats, not the size of the stadium.

[Gershwin]

I always find it a bit odd that there's not more demand for tickets in a city our size.

 

So many folk I know 'support' Hearts but haven't set foot in Tynecastle in years.

[Chuck Berry]

12 hours ago, David McCaig said:

Maybe a middle ground between permanent and a G4S tarpaulin then, with the flexibility to reposition.

 

Wasn't a wider tarpaulin introduced after the shenanigans a few seasons back v the Arabs at Xmas? I was at that game right next to the divide and drunken neds on both sides were an embarrassment and from memory the wider tarpaulin was introduced as a result.

[Jambo92]

37 minutes ago, Gershwin said:

I always find it a bit odd that there's not more demand for tickets in a city our size.

 

So many folk I know 'support' Hearts but haven't set foot in Tynecastle in years.

 

Work with quite a few 'jambos' that never go to games as they 'don't have anyone to go with', try to bring some along now and again but our ticketing system and the season ticket culture does no favours.  Plenty empty seats around wheatfield that are never on sale, if there was a ticket exchange system in place like at other clubs, Edinburgh rugby have one for example, then this would help massively get people hooked and bring along more folk I believe.

 

[HMFC01]

Main : 5

Gorgie: 18

Wheatfield: 114

Roseburn: 107

 

Wheatfield behind now by a neck ☺.    

 

No doubt there will be more seats released again somewhere.   

 

Just to add, I count 51 sold since last count 😉   

Edited December 9, 2021 by HMFC01

[Canscot]

6 hours ago, ramrod said:

I reckon we are about 3 k short of the ideal capacity 

23k would be perfect imo

Fill in the corners then!👍

[Rogue Daddy]

9 hours ago, Thomaso said:

A team winning and playing entertaining football sells more seats, not the size of the stadium.

In the main, yes I agree… but my point is that we have around 13,500 ST holders which leaves around 2000 ‘free’ seats for STs (leaving the Roseburn free for walk ups and away fans). I’ll wager that the 2000 seats are in the front 2/3 rows of the ground or ‘singles’ dotted about. If we had a larger capacity, we would probably get more ST holders purely on the basis that there would be ‘better’ seats available… and more likely to get more ‘groups’ that want to sit together. Would it equate to an extra 10,000?… I would say possibly, but, like you say we would have to be more consistent/successful/closer to the uglies. Personally, I think a 25,000 capacity would be our ‘sweet spot’. I think we could get our support up to a regular 20k and not have to give the away support any more than 2000. Cat A games and Euro nights we could sell out IMO. 

[Boab]

10 hours ago, Thomaso said:

Surely if only 18,000 wanted to buy a ticket, the fact that we had a 30,000 stadium would not encourage those who chose not to buy a ticket for a 20,000 stadium? 🤷‍♂️

I said not this game in isolation.

 

[Boab]

23 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

In the main, yes I agree… but my point is that we have around 13,500 ST holders which leaves around 2000 ‘free’ seats for STs (leaving the Roseburn free for walk ups and away fans). I’ll wager that the 2000 seats are in the front 2/3 rows of the ground or ‘singles’ dotted about. If we had a larger capacity, we would probably get more ST holders purely on the basis that there would be ‘better’ seats available… and more likely to get more ‘groups’ that want to sit together. Would it equate to an extra 10,000?… I would say possibly, but, like you say we would have to be more consistent/successful/closer to the uglies. Personally, I think a 25,000 capacity would be our ‘sweet spot’. I think we could get our support up to a regular 20k and not have to give the away support any more than 2000. Cat A games and Euro nights we could sell out IMO. 

Yea, maybe not 30 as I said but your idea.

How that works with the Wheat field I'm not sure.

[Gimme an H...]

I can’t get behind the 30000 seater arguement. Until we’re in a position where we have waiting lists for season tickets/match days there’s absolutely no reason why we should be considering a much bigger capacity than we have currently. 
 

We would lose everything that Tynecastle is famous for with 15k in a 30k stadium. In fact I’d wager it would put a lot of people off as it would feel so soulless.

 

As another poster said - massive games where there is likely to be a huge demand for tickets can be moved to Murrayfield. 

[scott herbertson]

Mane - nane

Gorgie - 15

Wheatfield - 106

Roseburn - 113

 

Total remaining bumless seats = 234

 

[Rogue Daddy]

12 hours ago, JayTeeJnr said:

That attendance included something like 12k Rangers fans. On the way to the game I remember going in on the Corstorphine road and the place was rammed with them and their coaches - I wouldn’t fancy that on any kind of regular basis.

 

I like the idea of as few of them as possible at Tynecastle regardless of whether we lose out on some potential income.

Yeah, I agree with that. I don't doubt your 12k orks at that game... but that means we attracted 21k hearts fan for a mid-table Hearts. I think we could easily accommodate a 25K capacity stadium. How we re-develop is another matter... but, council allowing, I would imagine it would be do-able and we get to stay at Tynecastle for the foreseeable. The only potential issue maybe UEFA and their pitch dimension rules. If we continue in the vein of form we have shown this season, it'll become more and more of a topic within the support IMO.