Should Scotland be an independent country?

[pablo]

26 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Not a chance. 

 

It might not seem like it tonight but this is a huge constitutional mis-step and whilst there's a fair bit of celebrating in both the transphobic and unionist communities, this will boomerang back and bite them on the arse. 

 

 

 

I admire your indefatigable belief with stuff like this. But FFS Brexit, didn't change anything. You can't dismiss the majority of people and women in particular as just transphobic unionists 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, the posh bit said:

 

If its legal for a 16 year old boy to have sex with a woman who is 3 or 4 times their age then I can't think why its not acceptable for a 16 year old to apply to change their gender. 

 

Now, once you've calmed down a bit tell me what you thought I'd say to that? 😊

 

No you said men first . Stop trying to dumb down on your homophobia . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, the posh bit said:

 

If its legal for a 16 year old boy to have sex with a woman who is 3 or 4 times their age then I can't think why its not acceptable for a 16 year old to apply to change their gender. 

 

Now, once you've calmed down a bit tell me what you thought I'd say to that? 😊

 

No you said men first . Stop trying to dumb down on your homophobia . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, the posh bit said:

 

If its legal for a 16 year old boy to have sex with a woman who is 3 or 4 times their age then I can't think why its not acceptable for a 16 year old to apply to change their gender. 

 

Now, once you've calmed down a bit tell me what you thought I'd say to that? 😊

 

No you said men first . Stop trying to dumb down on your homophobia . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Didn’t mean the triple posting 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

No you said men first . Stop trying to dumb down on your homophobia . 

That's a serious accusation to be throwing about, you should probably wind your neck in a bit

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

I admire your indefatigable belief with stuff like this. But FFS Brexit, didn't change anything. You can't dismiss the majority of people and women in particular as just transphobic unionists 

It appears they can . It’s the ultimate debate “ killer “  transphobe “ accusation. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Smithee said:

That's a serious accusation to be throwing about, you should probably wind your neck in a bit

You keep out of it . You’ve thrown loads of stuff on your time on this . What a brass neck 

[Unknown user]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

You keep out of it . You’ve thrown loads of stuff on your time on this . What a brass neck 

That's a no, you need to calm down with the screechy accusations bud

[the posh bit]

7 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

No you said men first . Stop trying to dumb down on your homophobia . 

 

I'd lob a Madge Harvey meme in at this point if I was that tacky and gross. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, the posh bit said:

 

I'd lob a Madge Harvey meme in at this point if I was that tacky and gross. 

Who's he/she/they?

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

It's a political masterstroke by Sturgeon. She's gotten folk (both for and against) riled up about something that no normal people cared about before in order to pick a fight with London to cover up her own inability to get a referendum on the table. She's no' daft is Oor Nick.

I don't think she anticipated this at all but I think she will exploit it to the hilt. I'm still not sure about the rights and wrongs of the Bill and a couple of weeks ago I thought it was the beginning of the end for NS but by escalating this into a constitutional issue the Tories have raised the stakes big time. It is an attack on Scottish democracy itself and the Uber Nats now have a perfect grievance to exploit. This could get very messy. 

[the posh bit]

Just now, Smithee said:

Who's he/she/they?

 

😁

[Ked]

2 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I don't think she anticipated this at all but I think she will exploit it to the hilt. I'm still not sure about the rights and wrongs of the Bill and a couple of weeks ago I thought it was the beginning of the end for NS but by escalating this into a constitutional issue the Tories have raised the stakes big time. It is an attack on Scottish democracy itself and the Uber Nats now have a perfect grievance to exploit. This could get very messy. 

But it is a constitutional issue.

And one Westminster is entitled to take.

Like it or nit there is a powerful voice amongst women about the ease in which anyone can declare themselves a women.

This impacts on various laws .

And thd United Kongdom hasn't consented to it.

Scotland cannot over ride the union.

It needs consent on this matter.

 

If this is a move from the SNP they picked the wrong battle imo.

 

[i wish jj was my dad]

11 minutes ago, Smithee said:

That's a no, you need to calm down with the screechy accusations bud

'You Keep out of it' 🤣 . On an Internet message board!

If you had been punching down on a vulnerable minority and accusing everybody who disagreed with you of enabling paedos your comment would have been embraced. 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

'You Keep out of it' 🤣 . On an Internet message board!

If you had been punching down on a vulnerable minority and accusing everybody who disagreed with you of enabling paedos your comment would have been embraced. 

 

Oh naw 😂😂😂

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Ked said:

But it is a constitutional issue.

And one Westminster is entitled to take.

Like it or nit there is a powerful voice amongst women about the ease in which anyone can declare themselves a women.

This impacts on various laws .

And thd United Kongdom hasn't consented to it.

Scotland cannot over ride the union.

It needs consent on this matter.

 

If this is a move from the SNP they picked the wrong battle imo.

 

Good posting 

[i wish jj was my dad]

Just now, Ked said:

But it is a constitutional issue.

And one Westminster is entitled to take.

Like it or nit there is a powerful voice amongst women about the ease in which anyone can declare themselves a women.

This impacts on various laws .

And thd United Kongdom hasn't consented to it.

Scotland cannot over ride the union.

It needs consent on this matter.

 

If this is a move from the SNP they picked the wrong battle imo.

 

This goes well beyond the Bill IMO. 

I'm still not convinced either way by the Bill and think it has been very poorly handled at best but for any prospective Bill to pass through parliament it will have been scrutinised by lawyers to the nth. 

This has nothing to do with equality. This is WM flexing their muscles and I think it puts independence back up front and centre again. Sadly, IMO. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, Ked said:

But it is a constitutional issue.

And one Westminster is entitled to take.

Like it or nit there is a powerful voice amongst women about the ease in which anyone can declare themselves a women.

This impacts on various laws .

And thd United Kongdom hasn't consented to it.

Scotland cannot over ride the union.

It needs consent on this matter.

 

If this is a move from the SNP they picked the wrong battle imo.

 

 I honestly don’t think people realise the full implications of the act . It’s not just a change on one’s birth certificate. It will allow fully intact men to self id as a female and enter female only spaces. That’s the reality of it . Not just a wee clerical change on a birth certificate. It’s serious stuff hence the intervention of the British Govt . 

Edited January 16, 2023 by JudyJudyJudy

[JudyJudyJudy]

 

 

 

[Ked]

4 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

This goes well beyond the Bill IMO. 

I'm still not convinced either way by the Bill and think it has been very poorly handled at best but for any prospective Bill to pass through parliament it will have been scrutinised by lawyers to the nth. 

This has nothing to do with equality. This is WM flexing their muscles and I think it puts independence back up front and centre again. Sadly, IMO. 

It may in your opinion have nothing to do with equality but it affects the law on reserved matters.

And the UK parliament us entitled to come to its own decision .

 

And imo there won't be a majority of nationalists sorry to see the back of this bill.

Never mind concerned women.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Ked said:

It may in your opinion have nothing to do with equality but it affects the law on reserved matters.

And the UK parliament us entitled to come to its own decision .

 

And imo there won't be a majority of nationalists sorry to see the back of this bill.

Never mind concerned women.

 

The legislation impacted / was in conflict with the nationwide equality act . That’s it . 

[i wish jj was my dad]

2 minutes ago, Ked said:

It may in your opinion have nothing to do with equality but it affects the law on reserved matters.

And the UK parliament us entitled to come to its own decision .

 

And imo there won't be a majority of nationalists sorry to see the back of this bill.

Never mind concerned women.

 

I think the bill opened up a can of worms that was handled very, very badly by the SNP. If it were to have fallen because there wasn't sufficient support I would have been okay with that but it wasn't. 

There were opportunities for UKG to flag any perceived tensions with the equality act which could have been addressed during its passage. That would have been fine by me. 

I'm not fine with politicising an already inflamed subject for maximum effect. It will and is giving another excuse for some quite dreadful behaviour from militant transphobes and rabid Uber Nats. 

These kind of decisions bring out the worst in our society and makes me have even more contempt for the politicians who exploit it knowing full well the damage they are doing. Tory, Nat whatever. A pox on them all. 

[Dennis Reynolds]

33 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

 I honestly don’t think people realise the full implications of the act . It’s not just a change on one’s birth certificate. It will allow fully intact men to self id as a female and enter female only spaces. That’s the reality of it . Not just a wee clerical change on a birth certificate. It’s serious stuff hence the intervention of the British Govt . 

 

Fully intact men can identify as female and enter female only spaces now. They can do it in England and Scotland.

[Cruyff]

42 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

This goes well beyond the Bill IMO. 

I'm still not convinced either way by the Bill and think it has been very poorly handled at best but for any prospective Bill to pass through parliament it will have been scrutinised by lawyers to the nth. 

This has nothing to do with equality. This is WM flexing their muscles and I think it puts independence back up front and centre again. Sadly, IMO. 

I think this is pretty spot on. 

 

This legislation will eventually come into effect in one form or another. It's already in effect in 19 European Countries, Argentina and probably various other places. 

That legislation could have been changed possibly further along the line, however, WM have chosen to pick the fight or, have been led into a trap. 

[Ked]

33 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I think the bill opened up a can of worms that was handled very, very badly by the SNP. If it were to have fallen because there wasn't sufficient support I would have been okay with that but it wasn't. 

There were opportunities for UKG to flag any perceived tensions with the equality act which could have been addressed during its passage. That would have been fine by me. 

I'm not fine with politicising an already inflamed subject for maximum effect. It will and is giving another excuse for some quite dreadful behaviour from militant transphobes and rabid Uber Nats. 

These kind of decisions bring out the worst in our society and makes me have even more contempt for the politicians who exploit it knowing full well the damage they are doing. Tory, Nat whatever. A pox on them all. 

Who are these militant transphobes?

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, Ked said:

Who are these militant transphobes?

He loves throwing that term about . He really does . It’s a desperate attempt to 

smear someone and devalue their views and opinions about a topic . It’s also a classic debate killer too .  Desperate . 

[Ked]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

He loves throwing that term about . He really does . It’s a desperate attempt to 

smear someone and devalue their views and opinions about a topic . It’s also a classic debate killer too .  Desperate . 

But who are they?

 

I googled it ...nothing.

Came up militant trans though.

Terfs came up.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

But who are they?

 

I googled it ...nothing.

Came up militant trans though.

Terfs came up.

 

Haven’t a clue . He seems to know though . 

[BlueRiver]

52 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I think this is pretty spot on. 

 

This legislation will eventually come into effect in one form or another. It's already in effect in 19 European Countries, Argentina and probably various other places. 

 

That legislation could have been changed possibly further along the line, however, WM have chosen to pick the fight or, have been led into a trap. 

 

Definitely not in effect in 19 other European countries. Maybe 8-10 at most. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

This is the kind of thinking coming from the SNP top brass . It’s worth a laugh 

 

 

 

[Cade]

This nonsense tonight is absolutely nothing to do with women's rights, public safety or even transphobia or homophobia.

It's nothing more or less than political grandstanding and the English Tories acting the bully in a sad and desperate attempt to try to rescue their appalling polling scores and to deflect from whatever today's crisis is.

 

Is it the banning of strikes and protests?

Is it the Chairman of the Tory Party being a tax evader?

Is it teaching unions being the latest in a long list of public sector workers to call a national strike?

Take yer pick.

 

 

[That thing you do]

3 hours ago, pablo said:

 

I admire your indefatigable belief with stuff like this. But FFS Brexit, didn't change anything. You can't dismiss the majority of people and women in particular as just transphobic unionists 

You can actually.

 

This bill gave no more rights to toilet use than the equalities act already gave.

 

The men will decide they are called Betty and go to rape you is absurd given countries that already allow self identification dont have that issue.

 

The issue for me is was fully within the competence of Holyrood, debated for 6 years and voted through with cross party support.

 

If they use s35 on that kind of bill, they will use it again and again.

 

Good news is the yoons on here csn stop the "why dont they change what they have power for now" patter.

 

No referendum or route to one and now laws overturned. Whether a yes or a no your democratic voice took a hit today.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by That thing you do

[The Mighty Thor]

7 hours ago, pablo said:

 

I admire your indefatigable belief with stuff like this. But FFS Brexit, didn't change anything. You can't dismiss the majority of people and women in particular as just transphobic unionists 

That's a really poor misrepresentation of what I wrote. 

 

Transphobes AND unionists. 

 

Mind you they appear to share a commonality of narrow mindedness. 

 

If you think the Tories are championing women's rights here you are deluded. 

 

Douglas Ross MSP and branch office leader cares about Scottish women that much he voted for the infamous ' rape clause' as did his predecessor Lady Mooth. 

 

 

[i wish jj was my dad]

6 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

He loves throwing that term about . He really does . It’s a desperate attempt to 

smear someone and devalue their views and opinions about a topic . It’s also a classic debate killer too .  Desperate . 

You've posted images telling people. You couldn't have been any clearer. Or was that just you trying to be funny. No offence meant and all that? 

 

It's far from a debate killer and your post count woukd suggest any attempt to silence you hasn't worjed. I've said many times that you are entitled to your sincerely held views but others are equally entitled to disagree even although you have also said 'there is no debate'. 

I've also said my daughter is gay. And my nephew is trans and has experienced all sorts of challenges in life dealing with it.  So i would have every right to be entitled to be offended by your suggestion of homophobia or that by not opposing for the bill is enabling paedos. 

 

[pablo]

33 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

That's a really poor misrepresentation of what I wrote. 

 

Transphobes AND unionists. 

 

Mind you they appear to share a commonality of narrow mindedness. 

 

If you think the Tories are championing women's rights here you are deluded. 

 

Douglas Ross MSP and branch office leader cares about Scottish women that much he voted for the infamous ' rape clause' as did his predecessor Lady Mooth. 

 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, That thing you do said:

You can actually.

 

This bill gave no more rights to toilet use than the equalities act already gave.

 

The men will decide they are called Betty and go to rape you is absurd given countries that already allow self identification dont have that issue.

 

The issue for me is was fully within the competence of Holyrood, debated for 6 years and voted through with cross party support.

 

If they use s35 on that kind of bill, they will use it again and again.

 

Good news is the yoons on here csn stop the "why dont they change what they have power for now" patter.

 

No referendum or route to one and now laws overturned. Whether a yes or a no your democratic voice took a hit today.

 

 

 

All that's happened is the UK government is saying that the Scottish GRR bill impacts on a UK wide law. Go and have another look and we can work together on it together if you like. They're not blocking anything. 

 

This is actually devolution working. 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by pablo

[Cruyff]

6 hours ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Definitely not in effect in 19 other European countries. Maybe 8-10 at most. 

And adopted by Germany soon. Regardless, it's going to happen here in one respect or another.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, pablo said:

 

 

 

 

All that's happened is the UK government is saying that the Scottish GRR bill impacts on a UK wide law. Go and have another look and we can work together on it together if you like. They're not blocking anything. 

 

This is actually devolution working. 

 

That's really not what is happening here at all. 

 

You know it and that rationale is the thinnest of camouflage for a constitutional heist. 

 

Devolution working is a bill transiting our parliament and being passed by MSPs of all colours. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by The Mighty Thor

[pablo]

42 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

That's really not what is happening here at all. 

 

You know it and that rationale is the thinnest of camouflage for a constitutional heist. 

 

Devolution working is a bill transiting our parliament and being passed by MSPs of all colours. 

 

I disagree with you. Section 35 is a foundation of the devolution agreement. If legislation has any affect on the working of a law on a reserved matter, in this case the Equality Act, the Secretary of State can intervene. The GRR bill  should have had proper or better scrutiny at Holyrood, and this could have been avoided. First time in 25 years?

 

It manufactured grievance again. 

[The Mighty Thor]

19 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

I disagree with you. Section 35 is a foundation of the devolution agreement. If legislation has any affect on the working of a law on a reserved matter, in this case the Equality Act, the Secretary of State can intervene. The GRR bill  should have had proper or better scrutiny at Holyrood, and this could have been avoided. First time in 25 years?

 

It manufactured grievance again. 

It's far from a manufactured grievance. 

 

In fact it's a manufactured defence. 

 

The bill took 6 years and was debated at every turn with over 100 amendment points debated. 

 

It's a constitutional cluster feck. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

20 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

I disagree with you. Section 35 is a foundation of the devolution agreement. If legislation has any affect on the working of a law on a reserved matter, in this case the Equality Act, the Secretary of State can intervene. The GRR bill  should have had proper or better scrutiny at Holyrood, and this could have been avoided. First time in 25 years?

 

It manufactured grievance again. 

Like you said “ it’s manufactured grievance “ it’s a recurring SNP theme really . Sadly . They were warned the bill conflicted with the Equality Act , but steam rolled it nevertheless , that tells me they were either arrogant and stupid or were deliberately looking for a confrontation . It’s probably both . Nicky loves a court appearance so she does . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

It's far from a manufactured grievance. 

 

In fact it's a manufactured defence. 

 

The bill took 6 years and was debated at every turn with over 100 amendment points debated. 

 

It's a constitutional cluster feck. 

They didn’t allow women who were victims of male violence to speak in the parliament . Didn’t want to listen to

womens concerns. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Like you said “ it’s manufactured grievance “ it’s a recurring SNP theme really . Sadly . They were warned the bill conflicted with the Equality Act , but steam rolled it nevertheless , that tells me they were either arrogant and stupid or were deliberately looking for a confrontation . It’s probably both . Nicky loves a court appearance so she does . 

She’s having to deflect massively at the moment. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

She’s having to deflect massively at the moment. 

And this is an ideal opportunity . No doubt about it she and her foot soldiers will be told to mention it at every given opportunity . Her hyperbole yesterday regarding it was absolutely comical and hypocritical ( “ will of the people “ ) 

[Konrad von Carstein]

LGBTQ+ thread for this pish...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[manaliveits105]

39 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

And this is an ideal opportunity . No doubt about it she and her foot soldiers will be told to mention it at every given opportunity . Her hyperbole yesterday regarding it was absolutely comical and hypocritical ( “ will of the people “ ) 

She wouldn’t know the will of the Scottish people if it slapped her in both faces 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

She wouldn’t know the will of the Scottish people if it slapped her in both faces 

I know . 👍she is a grievance merchant ! Rarely adds anything positive to any political issue. Venomous , carping from the sidelines , in the safe comfort of her acolytes .  Lol @ both faces 😂

 
 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

54 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

They didn’t allow women who were victims of male violence to speak in the parliament . Didn’t want to listen to

womens concerns. 

That's a nonsense. 

 

Women's views were represented throughout the debate and via the debated amendments. 

 

To say they weren't listened to is risible. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

That's a nonsense. 

 

Women's views were represented throughout the debate and via the debated amendments. 

 

To say they weren't listened to is risible. 

Nope you’re wrong . Female Victims of male violence were not allowed to tell their story in parliament . 

[the posh bit]

14 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Nope you’re wrong . Female Victims of male violence were not allowed to tell their story in parliament . 

 

Seriously, give it up. A day or two ago you were bubbling on about how the SNP had the Scottish media in its pocket. If its not lies and BS with you then its toxic transphobia.