TYNECASTLE STADIUM UPGRADE POTENTIAL - UEFA category 4 granted ( updated/merged )

[Homme]

Is parking needed? I've been to many city centre hotels in the UK without parking. 

 

 

[john thomas]

38 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said:

Thanks for pointing that out.

No problem.

You did appear to have some concerns 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

13 minutes ago, Homme said:

Is parking needed? I've been to many city centre hotels in the UK without parking. 

 

 

Would imagine parking will be between the wheatfield and Gorgie stands where the TV crews etc park up for live games

[davemclaren]

21 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Would imagine parking will be between the wheatfield and Gorgie stands where the TV crews etc park up for live games

Aka as Gerard’s yard. 

[Sooks]

On 15/09/2022 at 13:03, Famous 1874 said:

JB Contracts licking their lips. 

 

Yesterday 01:45 PM#12675

CapitalGreen 

@hibs.net private member

Join Date

Oct 2004

Location

Edinburgh

Posts

8,665

 

 

 Originally Posted by Hibs4185 

It’s pretty good news for us….turning it into a hotel would cost the normal person around £500k. Being Dr Budge, it will cost £5 million and use every penny from Europe.

All their money spent, in order to generate £100k a year in room sales.

Good news for JB Contracts.

[Shooter McGavin]

15 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

Yesterday 01:45 PM#12675

CapitalGreen 

@hibs.net private member

Join Date

Oct 2004

Location

Edinburgh

Posts

8,665

 

 

 Originally Posted by Hibs4185 

It’s pretty good news for us….turning it into a hotel would cost the normal person around £500k. Being Dr Budge, it will cost £5 million and use every penny from Europe.

All their money spent, in order to generate £100k a year in room sales.

Good news for JB Contracts.

Aye cause 22 boutique rooms that are just a 10 minute walk from the the city centre are only going to generate £100k a year right enough 😂

 

Love me a bit of hobo economics.

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Shooter McGavin

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Aye cause 22 luxury rooms that are just a 10 minute walk from the the city centre are only going to generate £100k a year right enough 😂

 

Love me a bit of hobo economics.

 

The whole thread is a delight ......................... full of totally meaningless comfort blanket comments about chips and cardigans because they have literally zero to crow about when you compare the two clubs in terms of footballing success and business performance 😄 

 

Just find it a bit weird that there are Hearts supporters on here making exactly the same shite comments as there are on Hibs.net .......................... JB Contracts

[Sooks]

Looking at Tynecastle on Google Maps and wondering about the red ash / clay rectangle in between the community pitch and the bowling green ................................. could we may be be planning on purchasing that and using it for parking ?

 

 

[Jambo Buckets]

26 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Aye cause 22 boutique rooms that are just a 10 minute walk from the the city centre are only going to generate £100k a year right enough 😂

 

Love me a bit of hobo economics.

 

How much will it generate a year? I was thinking close to 500,000 a year if its a success

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Jambo Buckets said:

How much will it generate a year? I was thinking close to 500,000 a year if its a success

 

No idea but definitely a damn sight more than any thing currently housed in their main breezeblock labyrinth stand  

[Shooter McGavin]

13 minutes ago, Jambo Buckets said:

How much will it generate a year? I was thinking close to 500,000 a year if its a success

Aye that’s around the figure I got.

 

Let’s just say rooms are £100-a-night, if all were fully booked, thats £2,200 a day.

 

Say they’re only booked out for half the year, that’s £396,000.

 

And that’s with me being fairly pessimistic with a £100-a-night cost and only being booked out for half the year.

 

Never mind the premiums that may be charged during the Fringe festival and any events we go on to host etc.

 

All in all, sounds like a fairly savvy investment for the club.

[Jambo dans les Pyrenees]

13 minutes ago, Jambo Buckets said:

How much will it generate a year? I was thinking close to 500,000 a year if its a success

 

Revenue wise, it's got to be £1m+

 

22 rooms, say 70% occupancy at anywhere between £150-200 / night (taking into account matchdays, functions and peak times in Edinburgh) plus as others have mentioned increasing conferencing revenues.

 

No idea of running costs.

[JayTeeJnr]

1 hour ago, Queensland Jambo said:

 

Revenue wise, it's got to be £1m+

 

22 rooms, say 70% occupancy at anywhere between £150-200 / night (taking into account matchdays, functions and peak times in Edinburgh) plus as others have mentioned increasing conferencing revenues.

 

No idea of running costs.

It'd be a great Birthday or Christmas Present for a far flung Jambo returning for a visit to Edinburgh. Parking would need to be sorted out to avoid driving round Gorgie for ages trying to find a space.

[D4nny_]

1 hour ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Aye cause 22 boutique rooms that are just a 10 minute walk from the the city centre are only going to generate £100k a year right enough 😂

 

Love me a bit of hobo economics.

 

The wee puppy on the Hibs forum hasn’t factored in the additional revenue from the new conference and events facilities and the additional hospitality space, not to mention regular use and not just on match days.

 

Teapots 😂😂😂

 

💰

[jambo89]

1 hour ago, Queensland Jambo said:

 

Revenue wise, it's got to be £1m+

 

22 rooms, say 70% occupancy at anywhere between £150-200 / night (taking into account matchdays, functions and peak times in Edinburgh) plus as others have mentioned increasing conferencing revenues.

 

No idea of running costs.

That's a bit on the higher end I reckon (full disclosure, I know nothing of the hotel industry). I would say the average price of a room would come in at £70 per night i.e £150 per night during the 2 months of the Festival and Xmas and £50 per night the rest of the time. At 75% occupancy throughout the year, that works out at over £400,000. There is already a restaurant in place as well as a bar etc. so the only extra ongoing costs (excluding the inital outlay) would be cleaners (which I'm sure we already have) and a hotel manager (perhaps the events team could cover this anyway). I'd say it could generate at least an additional £300,000 per year, maybe more if the guests are using the restaurant

[scott herbertson]

22 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

That's a bit on the higher end I reckon (full disclosure, I know nothing of the hotel industry). I would say the average price of a room would come in at £70 per night i.e £150 per night during the 2 months of the Festival and Xmas and £50 per night the rest of the time. At 75% occupancy throughout the year, that works out at over £400,000. There is already a restaurant in place as well as a bar etc. so the only extra ongoing costs (excluding the inital outlay) would be cleaners (which I'm sure we already have) and a hotel manager (perhaps the events team could cover this anyway). I'd say it could generate at least an additional £300,000 per year, maybe more if the guests are using the restaurant

 

 

There are a lot of costs associated with the hotel/ hospitality trade. We have a small cottage we air b'n'b  and even with that there are two or three hours of cleaning, wear and tear on the linen and furniture and fittings, heating and lighting costs, council tax, water rates. For the hotel there will be more staffing costs (more than a manager - you need to staff 24 hours and include reception duties). Then there is advertising and marketing, licensing trade association memberships etc.

 

There will be some economies of scope  and scale from the fact it is based within a complex of facilities we run, but I think a more realistic figure would be £100 - 200k plus whatever we can additionally generate at restaurants and the bar etc.

[Beave1874]

Whichever way we look at it, I think its a win win for the club. Summer season, no football but still generating money. Clever people running our club and very good people at the top table of the FOH. Not to mention a Benefactor on the Board with outstanding investment knowledge, who I think is in this for the long term. Certainly if  it goes ahead I will be looking to stay over.  

[jambo89]

2 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

There are a lot of costs associated with the hotel/ hospitality trade. We have a small cottage we air b'n'b  and even with that there are two or three hours of cleaning, wear and tear on the linen and furniture and fittings, heating and lighting costs, council tax, water rates. For the hotel there will be more staffing costs (more than a manager - you need to staff 24 hours and include reception duties). Then there is advertising and marketing, licensing trade association memberships etc.

 

There will be some economies of scope  and scale from the fact it is based within a complex of facilities we run, but I think a more realistic figure would be £100 - 200k plus whatever we can additionally generate at restaurants and the bar etc.

Yeh I agree with that, was more replying to the poster who said it would generate circa £1mill per year. Although still think my point RE: already having some of the staff in place could benefit our expenditure. I can't see how some of the waiters / waitresses could'nt also be trained on reception duties. Similarly regarding heating and lighting costs as these are already incurred by the club on a daily basis. But agree with your overall sentiment.

[johnking123]

If we can boost our none football related revenue to 5 million ish.  That would be massive to the club. Get that revenue to 20 million a season + player sales every 1 or 2 years. We will start pulling a head of the rest of the pack.

[Kiwidoug]

Had my first look at .net for ages.  Pleased to say they are rapidly becoming an irrelevance to me.  Anyway, there's a lot of scepticism about this over there.

 

In summary, we should be focussed on paying back the poppy money.  That is their modern day 0-7.

 

MND and Save the Children never seems to rate a mention.

[maroonlegions]

14 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

Had my first look at .net for ages.  Pleased to say they are rapidly becoming an irrelevance to me.  Anyway, there's a lot of scepticism about this over there.

 

In summary, we should be focussed on paying back the poppy money.  That is their modern day 0-7.

 

MND and Save the Children never seems to rate a mention.

Their delusions of grandeur are getting stripped away by the mighty HMFC and our glorious fans.

 

They  are utterly waking up to the fact that we are in our own way pulling away from them.  We have FOH , fan owned club , their pitiful fan share plan was heads up to them that we are miles ahead of them when it comes to fans loyalty .

 

They are slowly getting the rude wake up call that we are a very real threat to them. More so off the park at times but never far away from derby domination. 22 games in a row is something they will never match. They can clutch at straws if they want but its getting harder.

 

FTH.

 

HMFC 1874.

 

 

   

Edited September 16, 2022 by maroonlegions

[Taffin]

55 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

That's a bit on the higher end I reckon (full disclosure, I know nothing of the hotel industry). I would say the average price of a room would come in at £70 per night i.e £150 per night during the 2 months of the Festival and Xmas and £50 per night the rest of the time. At 75% occupancy throughout the year, that works out at over £400,000. There is already a restaurant in place as well as a bar etc. so the only extra ongoing costs (excluding the inital outlay) would be cleaners (which I'm sure we already have) and a hotel manager (perhaps the events team could cover this anyway). I'd say it could generate at least an additional £300,000 per year, maybe more if the guests are using the restaurant

 

Absolutely no way it'll be anywhere like as cheap as £50 night imo. It'll be in the 100-170 bracket I'd imagine. I've paid £130 a night for a Holiday Inn!!

 

That said I also don't think it'll be anywhere near 75% occupancy though.

 

Good point on the restaurant though, definitely a boost 👍

[Dazo]

1 hour ago, jambo89 said:

That's a bit on the higher end I reckon (full disclosure, I know nothing of the hotel industry). I would say the average price of a room would come in at £70 per night i.e £150 per night during the 2 months of the Festival and Xmas and £50 per night the rest of the time. At 75% occupancy throughout the year, that works out at over £400,000. There is already a restaurant in place as well as a bar etc. so the only extra ongoing costs (excluding the inital outlay) would be cleaners (which I'm sure we already have) and a hotel manager (perhaps the events team could cover this anyway). I'd say it could generate at least an additional £300,000 per year, maybe more if the guests are using the restaurant

£70 ? no chance unless we are aiming for Travelodge style quality. I’d expect it to be a minimum of £100 likely more especially at the weekend. 

[Doc Rob]

You won’t get a Premier Inn for £70 in Edinburgh. It’ll be £100 minimum.

[ShedBoy]

How will they plumb 22 rooms btw? I’d be interested to know. Will it be prefab units?

[Jambo-Fox]

33 minutes ago, Doc Rob said:

You won’t get a Premier Inn for £70 in Edinburgh. It’ll be £100 minimum.

And the rest .. tried to book a room for the match last week vs Istanbul and the cheapest room I could find was the Travelodge in Dumbiedykes @ £120 .. decided to get the overnight train home instead! Premier Inn(s) in Edinburgh are nearer £200!

 

However I have looked at staying over for Fiorentina & Riga in October and prices do seem to be reducing .. slightly!

[heartsfc_fan]

I reckon Hearts would make a decent amount doing all inclusive type packages for home games.

Room, dinner, breakfast, drinks, match ticket etc.

£200 per person or £350 per double room sort of idea.

[kingantti1874]

47 minutes ago, Doc Rob said:

You won’t get a Premier Inn for £70 in Edinburgh. It’ll be £100 minimum.

A lot more than that.  It’s not ****ing  1997

[soonbe110]

11 hours ago, Stuart Lyon said:

Finding it difficult to see how a hotel will be a money spinner. What happens about access to the hotel on match days when the place is heaving with fans? What about parking? 

I’m sure they have looked at how Bolton and Blackpool manage similar operations. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

500 a night or **** off. 

 

Matches account for really about 25 days of the year, not a huge issue 

[droid]

On 15/09/2022 at 14:06, highlandjambo3 said:

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by droid
Wrong person quoted

[droid]

If it’s going to be as described(Boutique Hotel Rooms) the price per night will be more like £200 a night I’d imagine.

[jamboinglasgow]

34 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

I’m sure they have looked at how Bolton and Blackpool manage similar operations. 

 

Kilmarnock's hotel ended provided half their total earnings until it was sold a few years back to their current owner to get so needed cash. 

[Montgomery Brewster]

2 hours ago, maroonlegions said:

Their delusions of grandeur are getting stripped away by the mighty HMFC and our glorious fans.

 

They  are utterly waking up to the fact that we are in our own way pulling away from them.  We have FOH , fan owned club , their pitiful fan share plan was heads up to them that we are miles ahead of them when it comes to fans loyalty .

 

They are slowly getting the rude wake up call that we are a very real threat to them. More so off the park at times but never far away from derby domination. 22 games in a row is something they will never match. They can clutch at straws if they want but its getting harder.

 

FTH.

 

HMFC 1874.

 

 

   

👏🏻 spot on. FTH

[OTT]

1 hour ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Kilmarnock's hotel ended provided half their total earnings until it was sold a few years back to their current owner to get so needed cash. 

 

Yeah, it kept Killie pretty competitive for a long time. Considering the unique features Edinburgh has, particularly around the festival, its madness neither ourselves or Hibs have actually done this yet. We could turn the stadium into a festival hub over August and have festival goers staying in the stadium, having their meals in the Sky Lounge and attending events within the stadium itself too. 

 

I'm absolutely shocked we've managed to get as many as 22 rooms planned, I was under the impression there would be like 10 from earlier posts on it. 

 

Being absolutely ridiculous but thats £4,400 a night, £1.6m a year - This is obviously assuming 100% capacity every day of the year which is unrealistic, but being able to add another 7 figures onto our turnover is brilliant and creeps us closer to that £20m milestone. 

 

Budge is leaving a tremendous legacy here, Stand successfully constructed, capacity increased, additional previously unexplored revenue streams opened up (Sky Lounge, 1874 Bar, Boutique 22 room hotel). The exciting part is, that there probably is scope for more development as the years go by, perhaps if an expansion of the Wheatfield is undertaken then more facilities could be added too. 

 

Its fantastic knowing there isn't a lack of ambition at the club and there is creative and forward thinking to continue to push the boundaries the club has in terms of maximum possible revenue.

[ShedBoy]

Being ultra conservative, even if it’s £100 per night for 300 nights it shakes out at £660 000. 
 

 

H1b5 0

[EIEIO]

People saying Gorgie is not a great area for a hotel are being a bit unrealistic , within less than a mile of Tynecastle there's loads of hotels and restaurants. If I was booking a city break Tynecastle would be far more attractive than say the faceless hotels at Haymarket,  next to the zoo or the Maybury to list but three. Dalry Road and Morrison Street for example have some great restaurants and bars (not Dalry for bars yet, apologies to the mine host at the Dickens) and are a short hop to the EICC for example.

Like it or not, Edinburgh is a huge year round tourist destination and it's right that we are looking to benefit from that.  

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Kilmarnock's hotel ended provided half their total earnings until it was sold a few years back to their current owner to get so needed cash. 

I wasn’t referring to the financial side, I was replying to a question re the logistics of managing an hotel within a football stadium.  Blackpool and Bolton are a bit different to Killie where the hotel was a standalone building. 

[Thomaso]

5 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

Absolutely no way it'll be anywhere like as cheap as £50 night imo. It'll be in the 100-170 bracket I'd imagine. I've paid £130 a night for a Holiday Inn!!

 

That said I also don't think it'll be anywhere near 75% occupancy though.

 

Good point on the restaurant though, definitely a boost 👍

You have to factor in the fact that we are not ‘city centre’ and let’s face facts Gorgie is not a big tourist draw.

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, ShedBoy said:

Being ultra conservative, even if it’s £100 per night for 300 nights it shakes out at £660 000. 
 

 

H1b5 0

🤔

[Batistuta87]

6 hours ago, jambo89 said:

That's a bit on the higher end I reckon (full disclosure, I know nothing of the hotel industry). I would say the average price of a room would come in at £70 per night i.e £150 per night during the 2 months of the Festival and Xmas and £50 per night the rest of the time. At 75% occupancy throughout the year, that works out at over £400,000. There is already a restaurant in place as well as a bar etc. so the only extra ongoing costs (excluding the inital outlay) would be cleaners (which I'm sure we already have) and a hotel manager (perhaps the events team could cover this anyway). I'd say it could generate at least an additional £300,000 per year, maybe more if the guests are using the restaurant

I travel a lot for work. Most places you're looking at £100 or so during the week and up to double at the weekend or during a big event (like the festival). Last place I went was Manchester and I paid £125pn for a Tuesday Wednesday in a Motel One.
 

Edinburgh is £100-150 for a Holiday Inn and much more for the nicer / newer ones. The Holiday Inn next to the zoo is £150 a night. If Hearts' hotel is anything like the other facilities in the main stand - I.e. very good - it'll be easy £200-220 or so a night at the weekend and about £125-150 or so during the week. Bearing in mind it should also bring trade to the Skyline and 1874, and we can offer things like match/hospitality, dinner, bed and breakfast packages, it'll earn us some money. Just as a quick comparison the Copthorne (mid range chain) attached to Brammal Lane (Sheff Utd) - a favourite of mine when I'm down there since some rooms overlook the ground - is usually £110-130pn during the week. 
 

[jamboinglasgow]

2 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Yeah, it kept Killie pretty competitive for a long time. Considering the unique features Edinburgh has, particularly around the festival, its madness neither ourselves or Hibs have actually done this yet. We could turn the stadium into a festival hub over August and have festival goers staying in the stadium, having their meals in the Sky Lounge and attending events within the stadium itself too. 

 

I'm absolutely shocked we've managed to get as many as 22 rooms planned, I was under the impression there would be like 10 from earlier posts on it. 

 

Being absolutely ridiculous but thats £4,400 a night, £1.6m a year - This is obviously assuming 100% capacity every day of the year which is unrealistic, but being able to add another 7 figures onto our turnover is brilliant and creeps us closer to that £20m milestone. 

 

Budge is leaving a tremendous legacy here, Stand successfully constructed, capacity increased, additional previously unexplored revenue streams opened up (Sky Lounge, 1874 Bar, Boutique 22 room hotel). The exciting part is, that there probably is scope for more development as the years go by, perhaps if an expansion of the Wheatfield is undertaken then more facilities could be added too. 

 

Its fantastic knowing there isn't a lack of ambition at the club and there is creative and forward thinking to continue to push the boundaries the club has in terms of maximum possible revenue.

 

It may be obvious but it is true that if we want to grow the club we have to find as many revenue streams outwith football to maximise our revenue. As you say that the Main stand (for all it flaws on delay of construction and cost) has really changed what we can do to bring in more revenue. Would love to know what other long term plans they have to increase revenue outwith football.

 

One thing I would be intrigued to see, will Hearts run the hotel in house or will they have a company come in to run it on our behalf.

[jambotony]

I wouldn't be surprised if we sell the rights to a chain hotel. Hilton, Marriot etc 

[Sherbet]

5 hours ago, Thomaso said:

You have to factor in the fact that we are not ‘city centre’ and let’s face facts Gorgie is not a big tourist draw.

It's full of foreigners

[allystrachan]

Do the plans have to go through the council planning portal or is there a separate corporate planning that isn’t visible? 
I love checking out folks plans & reading the hibees rejection notes would be hilarious. 

[sandyk]

12 hours ago, Jambo-Fox said:

And the rest .. tried to book a room for the match last week vs Istanbul and the cheapest room I could find was the Travelodge in Dumbiedykes @ £120 .. decided to get the overnight train home instead! Premier Inn(s) in Edinburgh are nearer £200!

 

However I have looked at staying over for Fiorentina & Riga in October and prices do seem to be reducing .. slightly!

Managed to book the Haymarket hotel for me and my daughter for the Riga match. £113 for the 2 of us. Worth a look 👍

[Sooks]

2 hours ago, Sherbet said:

It's full of foreigners

How do you know they are not residents 

[Rogue Daddy]

13 hours ago, Jambo-Fox said:

And the rest .. tried to book a room for the match last week vs Istanbul and the cheapest room I could find was the Travelodge in Dumbiedykes @ £120 .. decided to get the overnight train home instead! Premier Inn(s) in Edinburgh are nearer £200!

 

However I have looked at staying over for Fiorentina & Riga in October and prices do seem to be reducing .. slightly!

You should look at Hermiston Gait or South Gyle - couple of Travelodges and Premier inns and you can hop on the tram to Murrayfield for the game (or city centre). 👍

[jambo89]

14 hours ago, Dazo said:

£70 ? no chance unless we are aiming for Travelodge style quality. I’d expect it to be a minimum of £100 likely more especially at the weekend. 

That was an average figure. I assume we want to have as high capacity throughout the year as possible and think it would be hard to sell rooms from January to April for £100 odds per night. £50 per night in those months would certainly keep the occupancy rate up and possibly generate more income for the restaurant too. 
 

But as mentioned, I have little knowledge in that industry and trust the people in charge of the club to runs things the correct way (which is a nice position to be in) 

[Jamboross]

The 2* Ardmillan Hotel around the corner is currently £59 a night even in the depths of winter, rising in the more popular months up to £117 in August. 

 

We're not exactly going to be opening the Gorgie Ritz here but I suspect the quality will be a bit higher than the Ardmillan and priced accordingly. £100-£120 a night seems fair as a standard price with it rising as demand increases through the year. Edinburgh (for better or worse) is pretty much a year round tourist city now, throw in the events sector (our own facilities, Murrayfield, EICC, Corn Exchange and various other conference facilities within easy reach) and the novelty of staying in a football stadium and I'm sure our occupancy rates will be just fine. 

 

Also folk acting like Gorgie is a 3 day camel ride from the city centre. Edinburgh is tiny, it's a 20 minute walk or 5 minutes on a bus to Princes St. That's nothing.