Tom Hardy’s Dug Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, johnking123 said: Brophy, watt and not even Finlay are the quality we are looking at. Looking at far superior. Just harder and takes longer to get. Exactly. Our fans still haven’t really cottoned on to what Savage and his team are doing. Which is fine. But we ain’t shopping around the bottom 6 of the SPL these days. Woodburn and Beni standard and reputation type players this season. Better next season (based on qualification for Europe). Edited November 17, 2021 by Tom Hardy’s Dug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyphoonJambo Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 50 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said: tbh, very few players ( realistic ( ish) in Scotland that I'd take. A few that would better us imo Ramsey and Hedges Fuchs The st mirren midfielder McGrath I think The rangers iirc Croatian lad that is out of favour. The young Scottish midfielder lad at Celtic that is surely now around make or break time- if he's not in their plans would he come as part of a Souttar transfer ( If Souttar is going there)? I can't really think of a striker tbh. The Patrick lad may be worth a punt as a back up striker, but unlikely to improve us straight away. I think "clever looking Joe " will be looking at the English EPL reserves and championship level quality. The Partick striker? Zak Rudden, Watch his last goal against Killie. Strength and composure. What else do we need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S Form Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 57 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said: tbh, very few players ( realistic ( ish) in Scotland that I'd take. A few that would better us imo Ramsey and Hedges Fuchs The st mirren midfielder McGrath I think The rangers iirc Croatian lad that is out of favour. The young Scottish midfielder lad at Celtic that is surely now around make or break time- if he's not in their plans would he come as part of a Souttar transfer ( If Souttar is going there)? I can't really think of a striker tbh. The Patrick lad may be worth a punt as a back up striker, but unlikely to improve us straight away. I think "clever looking Joe " will be looking at the English EPL reserves and championship level quality. We ain’t going to get central midfielders in Scotland, outwith the OF, who are better than Devlin and Beni. Not sure Hedges is better than Barrie McKay, plus he’s a bit injury prone, I think. If the Celtic player you’re talking about is Mikey Johnston, he is good but just back after a long term injury. They’ll likely be holding on to him. Zak Rudden at Thistle might be worth a gamble, but not proven at Premiership level. I reckon we’ll be looking down south again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, TypoonJambo said: The Partick striker? Zak Rudden, Watch his last goal against Killie. Strength and composure. What else do we need? 1 minute ago, S Form said: We ain’t going to get central midfielders in Scotland, outwith the OF, who are better than Devlin and Beni. Not sure Hedges is better than Barrie McKay, plus he’s a bit injury prone, I think. If the Celtic player you’re talking about is Mikey Johnston, he is good but just back after a long term injury. They’ll likely be holding on to him. Zak Rudden at Thistle might be worth a gamble, but not proven at Premiership level. I reckon we’ll be looking down south again. Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agentjambo Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 53 minutes ago, S Form said: We ain’t going to get central midfielders in Scotland, outwith the OF, who are better than Devlin and Beni. Not sure Hedges is better than Barrie McKay, plus he’s a bit injury prone, I think. If the Celtic player you’re talking about is Mikey Johnston, he is good but just back after a long term injury. They’ll likely be holding on to him. Zak Rudden at Thistle might be worth a gamble, but not proven at Premiership level. I reckon we’ll be looking down south again. Jamie McGrath at St Mirren is a very decent player and would improve our squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmfc_liam06 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 Tony Watt Seems some have short memories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horatio Caine Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 We can speculate all we like on this thread. Truth is, though, none of us knows anything about what targets we have and we probably won't hear until there are done deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyces beard Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 9 hours ago, Agentjambo said: Jamie McGrath at St Mirren is a very decent player and would improve our squad. I would like to see us try for McGrath, good player with good potential at a good age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 18 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said: Tony Watt Seems some have short memories. Not sure he'd improve out team now but I liked Watt when he played for us. Good player but unfortunately isn't that effective, imo due to him not really suiting one position. Thought he was decent for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_HMFC Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, Smith's right boot said: The young Scottish midfielder lad at Celtic Who ? Ewan Henderson ( Not our one ) ? He will end up at HIbs no doubt brother is Liam Henderson. Edited November 18, 2021 by Stu_HMFC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Horatio Caine said: We can speculate all we like on this thread. Truth is, though, none of us knows anything about what targets we have and we probably won't hear until there are done deals. So - we can use a forum for its intended purpose then 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_HMFC Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 11 hours ago, S Form said: We ain’t going to get central midfielders in Scotland, outwith the OF, who are better than Devlin and Beni. Not sure Hedges is better than Barrie McKay, plus he’s a bit injury prone, I think. If the Celtic player you’re talking about is Mikey Johnston, he is good but just back after a long term injury. They’ll likely be holding on to him. Zak Rudden at Thistle might be worth a gamble, but not proven at Premiership level. I reckon we’ll be looking down south again. Mikey Jonhston is good when fit but injury prone, Even if he was available on a loan I don't think the two clubs would do a deal. Who was the last player we signed for a fee or a loan from Celtic ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveins Battalion Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 With our recruitment department I am expecting more top quality additions in January,our previous window was outstanding and up there with Burleys 2005 window for me. I too would like McGrath,if we can shift Walker I could see us going in for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Stu_HMFC said: Who ? Ewan Henderson ( Not our one ) ? He will end up at HIbs no doubt brother is Liam Henderson. Mikey Johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Horatio Caine said: We can speculate all we like on this thread. Truth is, though, none of us knows anything about what targets we have and we probably won't hear until there are done deals. TBF, that is why the forum exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batistuta87 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Horatio Caine said: We can speculate all we like on this thread. Truth is, though, none of us knows anything about what targets we have and we probably won't hear until there are done deals. Christ You new here, Horatio?? 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horatio Caine Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said: Christ You new here, Horatio?? 😉 Duh...ah right...! Edited November 18, 2021 by Horatio Caine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batistuta87 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 (edited) Have full trust in Joe and Robbie that another absolute gem is going to be pulled out of obscurity. In the summer we were disappointed at not signing Findlay, Bates, and probably some others, instead we signed Moore who has been excellent. Missed out on Campbell, signed Beni and Devlin who have been absolutely outstanding. Missed out on a few wingers and signed Barrie McKay who again has been superb. I wouldn't swap either one of them for the guys we wanted at first. Expecting more of the same tbh, I think we'll lose Souttar in January for a slightly disappointing six-figure fee but will replace him with someone surprising. Edited November 18, 2021 by Batistuta87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Daddy Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 3 hours ago, Batistuta87 said: Have full trust in Joe and Robbie that another absolute gem is going to be pulled out of obscurity. In the summer we were disappointed at not signing Findlay, Bates, and probably some others, instead we signed Moore who has been excellent. Missed out on Campbell, signed Beni and Devlin who have been absolutely outstanding. Missed out on a few wingers and signed Barrie McKay who again has been superb. I wouldn't swap either one of them for the guys we wanted at first. Expecting more of the same tbh, I think we'll lose Souttar in January for a slightly disappointing six-figure fee but will replace him with someone surprising. Absolutely this!... the market we plucked Beni and Woodburn from, must have literally thousands of prospects just bursting at the chance to prove themselves. It must be horrendous for the majority of these youngsters trying to break into premiership teams - but if a team like ours (with European football a probability) gives them a platform, we must be very attractive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerry Jambo Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Seemingly looking at cochrane on a permanent, makes absolute sense https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-want-to-sign-brightons-alex-cochrane-on-permanent-deal-but-other-issues-at-play-3463201 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batistuta87 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Clerry Jambo said: Seemingly looking at cochrane on a permanent, makes absolute sense https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-want-to-sign-brightons-alex-cochrane-on-permanent-deal-but-other-issues-at-play-3463201 Would love to get him on a permanent deal. Just seems to get the club, has fitted in well and seems to be enjoying himself, and at 21 I'm sure he will crack on and grow into a very good player. I had my doubts when he first joined, but what a find 👍 Edited November 19, 2021 by Batistuta87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAndy Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 6 hours ago, Clerry Jambo said: Seemingly looking at cochrane on a permanent, makes absolute sense https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-want-to-sign-brightons-alex-cochrane-on-permanent-deal-but-other-issues-at-play-3463201 What a left foot that boy has. He improves with every game. Would be tremendous signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 6 hours ago, Clerry Jambo said: Seemingly looking at cochrane on a permanent, makes absolute sense https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-want-to-sign-brightons-alex-cochrane-on-permanent-deal-but-other-issues-at-play-3463201 Think this is the plan. Get these boys who are out of contract up here on loan. Have them playing constantly and be able to dangle cup runs and Europe in front of them to sign up. Add in a sell on clause and we can build a decent side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That-Day-In-May Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 6 hours ago, Rods said: Think this is the plan. Get these boys who are out of contract up here on loan. Have them playing constantly and be able to dangle cup runs and Europe in front of them to sign up. Add in a sell on clause and we can build a decent side. Completely agree. All depends on how these players view their own prospects though. For all we know, Alex might be thinking he’s got the ability to make it for Brighton. Currently watching QPR vs Luton. Wallace, Dunne, Kal Naismith, Campbell and Adebayo all playing. Interesting to also monitor players (like Campbell) develop when they move down south, and players who have connections back up here. Find it an interesting market, one we’ve had quite a frequent a history with, but interesting to see how the current recruitment team will view it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/jamie-walker-poised-for-hearts-exit-as-two-clubs-make-an-approach-3485872 Jamie Walker could be away, Livingston and St Johnstone both want to take him on loan and Hearts are not offering a contract extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Landmesser Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 26 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said: https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/jamie-walker-poised-for-hearts-exit-as-two-clubs-make-an-approach-3485872 Jamie Walker could be away, Livingston and St Johnstone both want to take him on loan and Hearts are not offering a contract extension. He shouldn't go anywhere near Livi and their pitch with his knees. St J would be fine, nice club, low pressure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, August Landmesser said: He shouldn't go anywhere near Livi and their pitch with his knees. St J would be fine, nice club, low pressure Agreed and he will come me back and haunt us.. great finisher.. the best finisher at the club. wish it had worked out better .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 Cochrane signed up permanently is a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_HMFC Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 28 minutes ago, Homme said: Cochrane signed up permanently is a no brainer. When he signed was there no talk about him being out of contract at Brighton at the end of the season and there could be an option for him to sign perm after the loan. Get him singed up on a 3 year deal and offer Kingsley and Halkett new long term contracts too I'd be very happy with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 48 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said: Agreed and he will come me back and haunt us.. great finisher.. the best finisher at the club. wish it had worked out better .. Yeah, he'll score about 10 a season for a club like St Johnstone. It is a shame but the direction we are going in he's just not at the level we need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackOfTheNet Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 Considering the window opens in just over 3 weeks I’m a little surprised about the lack of information on incomings. Saying that, I was surprised by the lack of information in the summer window, guess that’s just how we operate under Savage now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WASTREL Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 34 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said: Considering the window opens in just over 3 weeks I’m a little surprised about the lack of information on incomings. Saying that, I was surprised by the lack of information in the summer window, guess that’s just how we operate under Savage now. I agree ... and also surprised that agents are not yet leaking stuff about any players who are in the last 6 months of a contract who would "jump at a move for the right offer" ... but when you see who we signed in the summer if word had been leaked back then that those players were in talks with Hearts I am not sure we would have signed all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batistuta87 Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 2 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said: https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/jamie-walker-poised-for-hearts-exit-as-two-clubs-make-an-approach-3485872 Jamie Walker could be away, Livingston and St Johnstone both want to take him on loan and Hearts are not offering a contract extension. For some reason I've always pictured JW playing for Dundee Utd but wouldn't want him going there now since they're close to us in the league and am always conscious of loan players strengthening possible competitors for league places/trophies. I don't think I would consider Livi or St Johnstone a major threat at the moment so would be quite happy with him going to either of them to hopefully get some games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upgotheheads Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said: Yeah, he'll score about 10 a season for a club like St Johnstone. It is a shame but the direction we are going in he's just not at the level we need. Sadly true. His ability is not in doubt but his fitness levels and possibly his work ethic are, although it's difficult to know about the latter. I'm guessing he'll go to a team with a grass pitch because playing every other week and training on plastic most of the time might be the final straw for his fitness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batistuta87 Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, upgotheheads said: Sadly true. His ability is not in doubt but his fitness levels and possibly his work ethic are, although it's difficult to know about the latter. I'm guessing he'll go to a team with a grass pitch because playing every other week and training on plastic most of the time might be the final straw for his fitness. He's definitely got some ability. Don't know why he fell away quite so much recently, if its been a mental thing or a fitness thing. Personally just don't think he's good enough to compete with our other wingers at the moment. I'd play him as more of a number 10 like we did with Naismith, but it's not a position we've really got in our formation these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_92 Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 5 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said: Considering the window opens in just over 3 weeks I’m a little surprised about the lack of information on incomings. Saying that, I was surprised by the lack of information in the summer window, guess that’s just how we operate under Savage now. 4 hours ago, Disco Ball said: I agree ... and also surprised that agents are not yet leaking stuff about any players who are in the last 6 months of a contract who would "jump at a move for the right offer" ... but when you see who we signed in the summer if word had been leaked back then that those players were in talks with Hearts I am not sure we would have signed all. I can't really ever remember transfer rumours coming out this far in advance of a January window. Not any that ended up having any substance anyway. I'm expecting the usual January window in which people panic about the perceived lack of activity for the first 2/3 weeks and then hail it as our best window in x years when we sign a couple of players in the last week. Happens every single year. Things seem more professional now so hopefully we've got one or two things lined up early in the window. Most potential players will be under contract, though, and often clubs don't let them go until they've got a replacement lined up, hence the deluge of activity that happens at the end of the month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackOfTheNet Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, DC_92 said: I can't really ever remember transfer rumours coming out this far in advance of a January window. Not any that ended up having any substance anyway. I'm expecting the usual January window in which people panic about the perceived lack of activity for the first 2/3 weeks and then hail it as our best window in x years when we sign a couple of players in the last week. Happens every single year. Things seem more professional now so hopefully we've got one or two things lined up early in the window. Most potential players will be under contract, though, and often clubs don't let them go until they've got a replacement lined up, hence the deluge of activity that happens at the end of the month. Certainly didn’t happen in January 2020! I think people only expect much activity if we’re underperforming. I think most would only want us to strengthen the positions that were needing strengthened in the summer but never did, with a RWB and forward. The CB requirement has subsided somewhat given how decent a job Kingsley has done there. I would go as far to say that if we don’t sign anyone this window (unless there’s departures) then most would be fine, if not a little disappointed as everyone loves a new signing. Edited December 8, 2021 by BackOfTheNet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said: Certainly didn’t happen in January 2020! I think people only expect much activity if we’re underperforming. I think most would only want us to strengthen the positions that were needing strengthened in the summer but never did, with a RWB and forward. The CB requirement has subsided somewhat given how decent a job Kingsley has done there. I would go as far to say that if we don’t sign anyone this window (unless there’s departures) then most would be fine, if not a little disappointed as everyone loves a new signing. I think we definitely need a striker this window, maybe on loan though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 8 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said: Certainly didn’t happen in January 2020! I think people only expect much activity if we’re underperforming. I think most would only want us to strengthen the positions that were needing strengthened in the summer but never did, with a RWB and forward. The CB requirement has subsided somewhat given how decent a job Kingsley has done there. I would go as far to say that if we don’t sign anyone this window (unless there’s departures) then most would be fine, if not a little disappointed as everyone loves a new signing. With so many players out of contract at the end of the season that puts us in a more precarious situation than we may have been in previous years. Perhaps the club has a good idea if any of those players will in fact stay if not long term at least until the end of the season or leave in January. But the club may not know that information just yet so they have to put a plan in place to have players ready should we need them. I disagree that we would only expect activity if we are underperforming. We are doing well in the league and I am sure that now would be a great time to add value to our squad and try and consolidate our lofty league position. We are light up front and could do with another striker or maybe even two if we can attract them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.JAMBO Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 (edited) The free transfer market for Strikers isn't up to much. Ricardo Goulart though interest me. Ricardo Goulart ► Amazing Skills, Goals & Assists | 2021 HD - Bing video Edited December 8, 2021 by A.JAMBO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 14 minutes ago, A.JAMBO said: The free transfer market for Strikers isn't up to much. Ricardo Goulart though interest me. Ricardo Goulart ► Amazing Skills, Goals & Assists | 2021 HD - Bing video I'm sure he's going to go from 155k a week in China to 4.5k a week at Hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.JAMBO Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 1 minute ago, Cruyff said: I'm sure he's going to go from 155k a week in China to 4.5k a week at Hearts. I am sure he doesn't need the money, get onto him show him what we are after. The SPL is attracting Japanese players. I understand what you are saying, Benefactors may think differently though. This lad would earn every penny back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyces beard Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 1 minute ago, A.JAMBO said: I am sure he doesn't need the money, get onto him show him what we are after. The SPL is attracting Japanese players. I understand what you are saying, Benefactors may think differently though. This lad would earn every penny back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.JAMBO Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 Just now, Boyces beard said: I was making a point that the player interest me. Not saying we can or can't afford him. He is exactly what we are after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyphoonJambo Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 9 minutes ago, Cruyff said: I'm sure he's going to go from 155k a week in China to 4.5k a week at Hearts. How no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tackle Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 ffs some of our fans are delusional Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.JAMBO Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, The Tackle said: ffs some of our fans are delusional So you are saying we don't need a player like him in our side. No one said we could sign him.. #Dellusional would be to get into talks with no money. The actual main issue is , he is a Chinese National. Edited December 8, 2021 by A.JAMBO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tackle Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, A.JAMBO said: So you are saying we don't need a player like him in our side. No one said we could sign him.. #Dellusional would be to get into talks with no money. So if i posted that Mbappe is on a free and he interests me. That would be relevant to a Hearts January transfer thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.JAMBO Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 Just now, The Tackle said: So if i posted that Mbappe is on a free and he interests me. That would be relevant to a Hearts January transfer thread. Well yeah, why not. We have a fan owned club with a history like no other, Tynecastle Park has a unique atmosphere. The lifestyle and environment are second to none in Western Europe. Edinburgh being the capital offers so much. If you don't ask you don't get the complimentary **** right Off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tackle Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 1 minute ago, A.JAMBO said: If you don't ask you don't get the complimentary **** right Off You on drugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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