***Official Heart of Midlothian vs Dundee Match Thread***

[Spellczech]

1 minute ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Once again our slow play lets us down and playing one up front with them defending means scoring is nigh impossible from open play. Unlucky with the wood work but we really should be putting teams like them to the sword.

Yep but we're hammering teams on the possession stat...

 

Dundee basically mugged us exactly like we did Rangers last week... 

[GinRummy]

8 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Once again our slow play lets us down and playing one up front with them defending means scoring is nigh impossible from open play. Unlucky with the wood work but we really should be putting teams like them to the sword.

We scored, hit the bar and hit the post. Hardly impossible to score. We are also the second top scorers in the league 🤷‍♀️

Edited October 23, 2021 by GinRummy

[Ex member of the SaS]

Just now, GinRummy said:

We scored, hit the bar and hit the post. Hardly impossible to score. 

IF you read my post you would see I wrote NIGH impossible. Meaning very, very hard. So yes, we did score but do you agree had we played a more pressing faster game with a more attacking attitude, we could have scored more? With them playing one up our defense should have been good enough to take care of them.

[best in the land]

Just in, really disappointed with the result and performance. 

Too indecisive in good positions. 

Challenge won't last long if players don't get shooting boots on. 

Don't know why the confidence doesn't seem to be there with players even now. 

Nando is a waste of space and can go in January imo. 

2 new strikers needed desperately. 

Players taking the wrong option in attack. 

Best players were Souttar and cochrane for me. 

The rest just average at best today. 

Need to be better on Wed night to get anything out of the game we can easily start slipping if we lose a couple. 

Few changes for Wednesday needed. 

Expected more from the subs who should be fighting for places, but have shown nothing to merit a place. 

Walker might be a shout for one. 

[GinRummy]

Just now, Ex member of the SaS said:

IF you read my post you would see I wrote NIGH impossible. Meaning very, very hard. So yes, we did score but do you agree had we played a more pressing faster game with a more attacking attitude, we could have scored more? With them playing one up our defense should have been good enough to take care of them.

It was a poor goal to lose and we need to move the ball a bit quicker from back to front. We played really well though and ive no real complaints. Unlucky is what I think of today more than anything else. Play that game ten times in the same way and we’d win 8-9 of them. By far the better side. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, HMFC 86 said:

Absolutely bang on, you could see it coming from virtually the start of the 2nd half. We were so slow and pedestrian in getting the ball forward, it felt like game management. Dundee committed to getting something, they brought on 3 forwards in the second half (Mullen, Sheridan, Cummings), yet we still tried to play out no matter how much they pressed us. Surely we have to adapt in that situation and go long and commit ourselves? Vary it at least. But no, it was still slow slow, pass side to side and back, giving them side to get set. Sheridan was more effective for them when he came in and they deserved it when it came. Really disappointed, feels like a loss. How come Dundee have at least 4 goal scoring forwards (Sheridan, Mullen, Cummings, Griffiths), yet we only have two? If Boyce is injured we have an issue now

Spot on. RN said before the game we would just need to keep playing the same way and be patient. 
We had no plan b, they did. 

[Pasquale for King]

21 minutes ago, jblair182 said:

This team is crying out for Jamie Walker. He can cut in from the left with no defensive responsibilities.
 

I’m prepared to be shot down. 

You’re right, we could’ve done with him today, McEneff might also have made a difference but both are injured I think. 
The blend up front is still not quite right yet. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

This is the problem with a defense minded manager, once we scored we slowed down instead of taking advantage of their misery and getting a second. Once again I am reminded of the Levein defending a one goal lead, and whilst we didn't go to a back four we certainly allowed them to gather a head of steam.

[chrystaf]

7 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Dundee basically did to us what we did to Rangers in terms of grabbing a point against a team that mostly dominated possession but missed some chances to kill the game off. It happens.

Yes, but it  has happened too many times at home - aberdeen, Hibs and now Dundee.  Six points down the drain.  Simply not good enough for a team challenging at the top of the league.

There was some good football played today but much of it was training passes and not enough speed and directness, except from wing play which produced nothing when the ball came into the box.

And we gave up when the second goal didn't come, allowing them to come more into the game and with the inevitable, yes inevitable result.

Fact - we need a striker.  Fact - Nando got his chance and he blew it.  Fact - yet again we failed to take our chances. Too many pass, pass and not enough shoot, shoot.  Fact - we failed to manage the game and let a team that should have been well beaten, into the game.

 

[chrystaf]

10 minutes ago, best in the land said:

Just in, really disappointed with the result and performance. 

Too indecisive in good positions. 

Challenge won't last long if players don't get shooting boots on. 

Don't know why the confidence doesn't seem to be there with players even now. 

Nando is a waste of space and can go in January imo. 

2 new strikers needed desperately. 

Players taking the wrong option in attack. 

Best players were Souttar and cochrane for me. 

The rest just average at best today. 

Need to be better on Wed night to get anything out of the game we can easily start slipping if we lose a couple. 

Few changes for Wednesday needed. 

Expected more from the subs who should be fighting for places, but have shown nothing to merit a place. 

Walker might be a shout for one. 

Spot on.

[Ex member of the SaS]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

You’re right, we could’ve done with him today, McEneff might also have made a difference but both are injured I think. 
The blend up front is still not quite right yet. 

The problem is we don't have a blend! We have one up front every game no matter who we play.

[chrystaf]

9 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

It was a poor goal to lose and we need to move the ball a bit quicker from back to front. We played really well though and ive no real complaints. Unlucky is what I think of today more than anything else. Play that game ten times in the same way and we’d win 8-9 of them. By far the better side. 

But you could say that against Aberdeen and Hibs.  Luck's not in it.

[Tazio]

People did notice that Dundee played the entire first half with ten men behind the ball? Even Griffiths was moaning at the Dundee bench about it and the fact nobody came within twenty yard of him. At one point when we were attacking they actually had everyone apart from Griffiths in their box. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Tazio

[GinRummy]

Just now, chrystaf said:

But you could say that against Aberdeen and Hibs.  Luck's not in it.

You could but I wouldn’t. We dominated way more today than against Hibs and Aberdeen. 

[bobskeldon]

21 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Once again our slow play lets us down and playing one up front with them defending means scoring is nigh impossible from open play. Unlucky with the wood work but we really should be putting teams like them to the sword.

Not sure I agree that our play is necessarily “slow”, I think we get up the park quicker than we have done for many years. However, it tends to be in the wide areas, what we are still lacking is someone getting us up the park centrally, either a ‘box to box’ midfielder (neither Beni or Devlin are this) and Boyce doesn’t have the pace to go beyond. This is not a criticism of Beni, Devlin or Boyce who are all undroppable just now. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

8 minutes ago, chrystaf said:

Yes, but it  has happened too many times at home - aberdeen, Hibs and now Dundee.  Six points down the drain.  Simply not good enough for a team challenging at the top of the league.

There was some good football played today but much of it was training passes and not enough speed and directness, except from wing play which produced nothing when the ball came into the box.

And we gave up when the second goal didn't come, allowing them to come more into the game and with the inevitable, yes inevitable result.

Fact - we need a striker.  Fact - Nando got his chance and he blew it.  Fact - yet again we failed to take our chances. Too many pass, pass and not enough shoot, shoot.  Fact - we failed to manage the game and let a team that should have been well beaten, into the game.

 

 

Cleary it is good enough for a team challenging at the top given that we are top

Edited October 23, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[John Findlay]

That was deffo 2pts dropped today.

Gary MacKay Stevens scores instead of hitting the post then we win that game.

Him hitting the post gave Dundee a lease of live they hadn't shown previously.

Two very tough away games coming up.

We are going to have to dig, and dig deep at both McDermid Park and Pittodrie.

Edited October 23, 2021 by John Findlay

[NB GIN]

We played good football today just lacked it in final third. Dundee he 8 men behind the ball the whole game I thought hearts possession and football was excellent and good to watch. Boyce is a key player links the game good but I do think we need a better striker to move forward. 
Devlin McKay Beni cochrane have improved us so much and no more hoofball 

Robbie deserves credit for keeping the 343 and same players 

 

We utterly dominated that game abd it could easily have been 4-5. 
 

Keep positive the football is good 

[DS98]

5 minutes ago, Tazio said:

People did notice that Dundee played the entire first half with ten men behind the ball? Even Griffiths was moaning at the Dundee bench about it and the fact nobody came within twenty yard of him. At one point when we were attacking they actually had everyone apart from Griffiths in their box. 

Yep me and my father-in-law said the same thing after about 20 mins. It was definitely McPake’s tactics for the first hour. To be fair to them they had a very good shape and made it difficult. We never helped ourselves to be fair as we weren’t quick enough in possession and allowed them to regroup. We better get used to that, even in this league. Teams will treat us like the OF.

[DS98]

2 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

That was deffo 2pts dropped today.

Gary MacKay Stevens scores instead of hitting the post then we win that game.

Him hitting the post gave Dundee a lease of live they hadn't shown previously.

Two very tough away games coming up.

We are going to have to dig, and dig deep at both Madrid Park and Pittodrie.

Bit premature isn’t it? Champs League is NEXT season. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, DS98 said:

Yep me and my father-in-law said the same thing after about 20 mins. It was definitely McPake’s tactics for the first hour. To be fair to them they had a very good shape and made it difficult. We never helped ourselves to be fair as we weren’t quick enough in possession and allowed them to regroup. We better get used to that, even in this league. Teams will treat us like the OF.

 

Good point. We must at times be prepared to accept a 1-0 ground out win against teams like Dundee, even at home, as a good result instead of whining about not "putting teams away" or giving them a hiding. The OF do it all the time.

Edited October 23, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Pasquale for King]

19 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

The problem is we don't have a blend! We have one up front every game no matter who we play.

Yeah definitely, we are creating very little for the striker. 

[sadj]

58 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

We're only 10 games in, not even a full round of fixtures. People are getting far too carried away. We were in a similar situation under Levein the season we got demoted for goodness sakes...

what? 🤨

[Guest ToqueJambo]

21 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

The problem is we don't have a blend! We have one up front every game no matter who we play.

 

One in the middle yes but we're playing a front 3

[south morocco]

18 minutes ago, Tazio said:

People did notice that Dundee played the entire first half with ten men behind the ball? Even Griffiths was moaning at the Dundee bench about it and the fact nobody came within twenty yard of him. At one point when we were attacking they actually had everyone apart from Griffiths in their box. 

I mentioned that to my son at the time, difficult to break these teams down 

[Agentjambo]

10 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Good point. We must at times be prepared to accept a 1-0 ground out win against teams like Dundee, even at home, as a good result instead of whining about not "putting teams away" or giving them a hiding. The OF do it all the time.

It was a draw!

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, sadj said:

what? 🤨

He’s getting mixed up with the season before I think. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Agentjambo said:

It was a draw!

 

Yeah but I think we should have brought Haring and been happy with the 1-0. 

[hearts00]

2 hours ago, jambonian said:

Like i said further up, Smith has been a right-back for most of his career, not a wing-back. 

This is why i mentioned a few weeks back that we should be looking to coach McEnef into a wing-back. He has the pace to cover that side of the pitch. Smith, more often than not, gets into a reasonable position then makes it easy for the opposition by passing inwards. They get back to defend and moves break down. Can't teach an old dog new tricks but the coaches seem to think that they can. He's 34, not 24.

I’d love to see what McEneff  could do there, especially as the system at times leads to the RWB moving into CM. He has boundless energy and good pace. 

[Pasquale for King]

15 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Good point. We must at times be prepared to accept a 1-0 ground out win against teams like Dundee, even at home, as a good result instead of whining about not "putting teams away" or giving them a hiding. The OF do it all the time.

If we had won the game most folk would’ve accepted a below par performance, it was a draw. 

[Pasquale for King]

31 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

This is the problem with a defense minded manager, once we scored we slowed down instead of taking advantage of their misery and getting a second. Once again I am reminded of the Levein defending a one goal lead, and whilst we didn't go to a back four we certainly allowed them to gather a head of steam.

Definitely, didn’t even throw Halkett forward in case we lost another goal. 

[Beni]

We can be in a better position than we expected after 10 games but still be disappointed with where we are, given how things have panned out. 

These two things are not mutually exclusive.

[Spellczech]

12 minutes ago, sadj said:

what? /🤨

seaons mixed up it was year before

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

If we had won the game most folk would’ve accepted a below par performance, it was a draw. 

 

It wasn't below par for me. Thought we played well just didn't finish well enough. My point is we often hear moaning when we see games out to win 1-0.

[Debut 4]

Didn’t have that probing midfielder when we needed it.

 

Different scenarios will throw up what you lack and I thought as soon as it went 1-1, it highlighted our lack of creativity in the middle of the park. When a bit pressure came, being pegged back albeit against the flow of the game.

 

However, I thought that was the first sign of complacency we’ve saw from Hearts, in the 2nd half.  We invited the Dundee equaliser and treated the 2nd half like a 45 minute passing exercise.  They had no pressure at all but got a draw borne out of us having no killer instinct. 

[Tazio]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Definitely, didn’t even throw Halkett forward in case we lost another goal. 

Fair enough doing that if it had been a cup game but no point going to a 2 man defence and losing all the points. 

[sadj]

3 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

seaons mixed up it was year before

👍🏻

[Dia Liom]

Frustrating game.  Even more than rangers last week, we dominated.  Ultimately, we didn't score the 2nd and paid the price in the end.  There will always be below par performances, it's how we react to it!  Two difficult away games coming up at places we usually struggle.  It will be very interesting to assess the first round of games after we play St Johnstone - to be fair to the team we have done better than expected, whatever the result.

[HMFC 86]

6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It wasn't below par for me. Thought we played well just didn't finish well enough. My point is we often hear moaning when we see games out to win 1-0.

its never below par for you though, no matter how we perform

[JimmyCant]

17 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It wasn't below par for me. Thought we played well just didn't finish well enough. My point is we often hear moaning when we see games out to win 1-0.

I don’t think we made enough good chances to point the finger at finishing, although Boyce isn’t contributing much just now and when that’s happening, we don’t really have much lethal danger in us up front. Gnando was shite when he came on so he isn’t a reliable option either. 
 

With that level of dominance up until the final third we should be creating more and of course we need to accept that loads of teams will come to Tynie and do what Dundee just did. Some will rob a goal they don’t deserve, some won’t. Feels like a defeat today but we need to bounce back off it and shake it off and try and win in Perth. Game might suit us better as you wouldn’t expect St Johnstone to park the bus all night

[south morocco]

I guess today shows how far we’ve come in a relatively short space of time. Top after 10 games, unbeaten and playing well overall. We’re all disappointed and picking the bones of a home draw. I guess that’s football though.
We are on the right track though and I think we’ll see some players moving on and some arriving in the January window. It’s a good feeling looking forward to the next match again!…

[south morocco]

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

I don’t think we made enough good chances to point the finger at finishing, although Boyce isn’t contributing much just now and when that’s happening, we don’t really have much lethal danger in us up front. Gnando was shite when he came on so he isn’t a reliable option either. 
 

With that level of dominance up until the final third we should be creating more and of course we need to accept that loads of teams will come to Tynie and do what Dundee just did. Some will rob a goal they don’t deserve, some won’t. Feels like a defeat today but we need to bounce back off it and shake it off and try and win in Perth. Game might suit us better as you wouldn’t expect St Johnstone to park the bus all night

Re your first paragraph, Sometimes I think we try to walk the ball into the net.
Looking to Wednesday night, St Johnstone are a good side and we’ll do well to win up there. Score draw I think 

[Spellczech]

4 minutes ago, south morocco said:

I guess today shows how far we’ve come in a relatively short space of time. Top after 10 games, unbeaten and playing well overall. We’re all disappointed and picking the bones of a home draw. I guess that’s football though.
We are on the right track though and I think we’ll see some players moving on and some arriving in the January window. It’s a good feeling looking forward to the next match again!…

Last season we were beating Dundee at Tynie (twice)...

[JimmyCant]

9 minutes ago, south morocco said:

Re your first paragraph, Sometimes I think we try to walk the ball into the net.
Looking to Wednesday night, St Johnstone are a good side and we’ll do well to win up there. Score draw I think 

We need at least 3 points in the next two games or we’ll probably be down to 4th. 2 losses and we almost certainly will be 4th

Edited October 23, 2021 by JimmyCant

[south morocco]

5 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Last season we were beating Dundee at Tynie (twice)...

So your logic and reply suggests we have gone backwards then?

[KyleLafferty]

14 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

We need at least 3 points in the next two games or we’ll probably be down to 5th. 2 losses and we almost certainly will be 5th.

Top 6 are playing each other in the next 2-games, can’t all win, if we are 2nd/3rd going into the United game that will be positive.

[Spellczech]

8 minutes ago, south morocco said:

So your logic and reply suggests we have gone backwards then?

Nah just pointing out that assuming we've made big strides may be flawed, and there isn't a massive difference between Scottish clubs at the moment. 5 wins and 5 draws is no better than DUFC's 6 wins, 2 draws and 3 losses...

[JimmyCant]

2 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

Top 6 are playing each other in the next 2-games, can’t all win, if we are 2nd/3rd going into the United game that will be positive.

Best have a look at the fixtures mate

[benny]

1 hour ago, jblair182 said:

This team is crying out for Jamie Walker. He can cut in from the left with no defensive responsibilities.
 

I’m prepared to be shot down. 

Up to Jamie to produce the goods.

An on form Jamie is a huge asset.Shame we have not seen it recently.

I would play him before Ginnelly and Gnandull.

 

[The Old Tolbooth]

Played shit, but had enough chances to win 3 games against utterly dire opposition, not many pass marks today but we’re gonna have days like this and it highlights how short we are up front, we move on to the fermers away!