Trans athletes

[doctor jambo]

27 minutes ago, graygo said:

Nobody's rights trump anyone else's rights, that's called discrimination.

Not everybody’s rights can always be accommodated.

That is why there are exemptions.

I, for instance cannot carry out my old job as an SOE in a SARC.

Women only applications as rape victims don’t want male doctors.

My equal rights removed to protect women.

Yet I could declare myself a woman and would the victims feel more comfortable with that ?

[graygo]

3 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Not everybody’s rights can always be accommodated.

That is why there are exemptions.

I, for instance cannot carry out my old job as an SOE in a SARC.

Women only applications as rape victims don’t want male doctors.

My equal rights removed to protect women.

Yet I could declare myself a woman and would the victims feel more comfortable with that ?

 

Ok, you're getting down to specifics. He is carte blanche saying they have no rights.

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, graygo said:

 

Ok, you're getting down to specifics. He is carte blanche saying they have no rights.

I don't think he is, I don't get that from his posts.

[graygo]

12 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I don't think he is, I don't get that from his posts.

 

I do. 

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, graygo said:

 

I do. 

That's obvious, I don't think you're right.

[JudyJudyJudy]

14 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I don't think he is, I don't get that from his posts.

Tell a lie often enough then some believe it.  Right out the Trump school of " debate".  Thanks btw. 

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

That's obvious, I don't think you're right.

 

Fair enough, I think I am.

[doctor jambo]

16 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Ok, you're getting down to specifics. He is carte blanche saying they have no rights.

Look, they are born male.

When they die and their remains are dug up I’m future and tested they will be classed as male.

Everything in between those two events is about the detail

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Look, they are born male.

When they die and their remains are dug up I’m future and tested they will be classed as male.

Everything in between those two events is about the detail

 

See that's just a ridiculous post, you're better than that. Have you ever met, spoke and listened to someone who is transgender? As a doctor I would assume you have and can keep your personal thoughts desperate from it. They are not all hairy men out to intimidate women.

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

See that's just a ridiculous post, you're better than that. Have you ever met, spoke and listened to someone who is transgender? As a doctor I would assume you have and can keep your personal thoughts desperate from it. They are not all hairy men out to intimidate women.

 

Of course he does, or Hippocrates will be ragin

 

"I will care for all patients equally and not allow prejudice to influence my practice.
I will respect the autonomy and dignity of my patients, and will uphold their confidentiality.
I will acknowledge my patients’ physical, psychological, and social needs and assist them to make informed decisions that reflect their own values and beliefs."

[doctor jambo]

7 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

See that's just a ridiculous post, you're better than that. Have you ever met, spoke and listened to someone who is transgender? As a doctor I would assume you have and can keep your personal thoughts desperate from it. They are not all hairy men out to intimidate women.

Im not talking about how they feel or should be treated .

Ante natal scans show they are male or female.

When you dig up human remains and test them they are male or female .

Everything in between those two absolutely undeniable facts is about rubbing along together , as people living an experience.

You should listen to Dave Chappelle’s Netflix specials .

The equalities act has exemptions as I described , that overrides equal rights to protect the rights of others to feel safe.

The rights of one group to feel included should not override the right of another to feel safe

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, doctor jambo said:

 

The rights of one group to feel included should not override the right of another to feel safe

Absolutely. 

[doctor jambo]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Of course he does, or Hippocrates will be ragin

 

"I will care for all patients equally and not allow prejudice to influence my practice.
I will respect the autonomy and dignity of my patients, and will uphold their confidentiality.
I will acknowledge my patients’ physical, psychological, and social needs and assist them to make informed decisions that reflect their own values and beliefs."

And? We are allowed debate no?

And thoughts as well?

And opinions ?

Or are we all to follow political / religious/ left wing / right wing dogma?

Free thinking is vital.

There is also nothing I have said that is even vaguely phobic , or untrue.

Except to the rather sensitive.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Im not talking about how they feel or should be treated .

Ante natal scans show they are male or female.

When you dig up human remains and test them they are male or female .

Everything in between those two absolutely undeniable facts is about rubbing along together , as people living an experience.

You should listen to Dave Chappelle’s Netflix specials .

The equalities act has exemptions as I described , that overrides equal rights to protect the rights of others to feel safe.

The rights of one group to feel included should not override the right of another to feel safe

👍

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

And? We are allowed debate no?

And thoughts as well?

And opinions ?

Or are we all to follow political / religious/ left wing / right wing dogma?

Free thinking is vital.

There is also nothing I have said that is even vaguely phobic , or untrue.

Except to the rather sensitive.

 

 

I'm saying of course you do so those things, you'd be in the papers if you didn't! I'd personally question the bit about respecting the dignity of patients if I was being honest, but I'd also be surprised if that leaked into your professional life.

 

But it is notable that your beliefs seem very different from the nice guy hippocratic oath you're sworn to 🤷‍♂️

Edited April 14, 2022 by Smithee

[doctor jambo]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I'm saying of course you do so those things, you'd be in the papers if you didn't! I'd personally question the bit about respecting the dignity of patients if I was being honest, but I'd also be surprised if that leaked into your professional life.

 

But it is notable that your beliefs seem very different from the nice guy hippocratic oath you're sworn to 🤷‍♂️

I’m what way?

im utterly anti prejudice of any kind.

I believe utterly inequality .

I believe in safety , respect and dignity .

I don’t treat anyone badly or lack respect for them because of their beliefs - religious / political/ gender/ race whatever.

Live and let live , that’s fine with me.

I empathise with both trans militant and TERF stances.

However one side is a physical threat to the other,

and the other is a threat to the feelings of the other.

The two are different .

[Ked]

Just now, doctor jambo said:

I’m what way?

9 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

 

 

But it is notable that your beliefs seem very different from the nice guy hippocratic oath you're sworn to 🤷‍♂️

 

I was about to ask that.

Are you basing it on this thread only or other threads?

 

 

[doctor jambo]

Just now, Ked said:

I was about to ask that.

Are you basing it on this thread only or other threads?

 

 

Basing it on his own narrow perceptions.

Bit right wing , bit opinionated, bit different to his own stoner philosopher persona = bad.

So throw the prejudice stone from his own greenhouse of assumptions.

 

He cannot work out that 

If my daughter has a trans friend = cool.

Wants her over to play = cool

Round for dinner = cool

All As I would for her mixed sexuality/race/ religious/atheist etc mates.

Sleep over in same bed = not cool.

 

As I’ve said there is a line where safety trumps everything 

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

I’m what way?

im utterly anti prejudice of any kind.

I believe utterly inequality .

I believe in safety , respect and dignity .

I don’t treat anyone badly or lack respect for them because of their beliefs - religious / political/ gender/ race whatever.

Live and let live , that’s fine with me.

I empathise with both trans militant and TERF stances.

However one side is a physical threat to the other,

and the other is a threat to the feelings of the other.

The two are different .

They're all just human beings, but here you are saying they're a physical threat to women. What a ridiculous blanket thing to come out with.

 

My view that you don't respect patients' dignity is based on your frequent displays of negative prejudice.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Basing it on his own narrow perceptions.

Bit right wing , bit opinionated, bit different to his own stoner philosopher persona = bad.

So throw the prejudice stone from his own greenhouse of assumptions.

 

He cannot work out that 

If my daughter has a trans friend = cool.

Wants her over to play = cool

Round for dinner = cool

All As I would for her mixed sexuality/race/ religious/atheist etc mates.

Sleep over in same bed = not cool.

 

As I’ve said there is a line where safety trumps everything 

Nope

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Basing it on his own narrow perceptions.

Bit right wing , bit opinionated, bit different to his own stoner philosopher persona = bad.

So throw the prejudice stone from his own greenhouse of assumptions.

 

He cannot work out that 

If my daughter has a trans friend = cool.

Wants her over to play = cool

Round for dinner = cool

All As I would for her mixed sexuality/race/ religious/atheist etc mates.

Sleep over in same bed = not cool.

 

As I’ve said there is a line where safety trumps everything 

Nailed it ! 

[doctor jambo]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

They're all just human beings, but here you are saying they're a physical threat to women. What a ridiculous blanket thing to come out with.

 

My view that you don't respect patients' dignity is based on your frequent displays of negative prejudice.

What negative prejudice ?

The underlying prejudice in this is anti male.

And I am one.

male to female trans are viewed as a threat because they have penises.

Not because of how they dress , or behave or any of that frippery.

TERF don’t like them because they still see them as MEN.

it’s not anti trans, it’s anti men.

men are a threat, simples.

Until the TERF can be provided with evidence that trans male - female are

not a threat to them, then they will try to protect themselves from , as they see it, men re encroaching on their hard won rights and safe spaces .

To them possession of a loaded cock is worse than a gun, and I get that

[Ked]

7 minutes ago, Smithee said:

They're all just human beings, but here you are saying they're a physical threat to women. What a ridiculous blanket thing to come out with.

 

My view that you don't respect patients' dignity is based on your frequent displays of negative prejudice.

I think not just him but others have expressed the view about how its felt/seen from a woman's perspective.

Men unfortunately are a threat to women.

Not all of course.

That's how I've read it and not just the doctors post.

 

It's without any credibility that you cast his view as not seeing them as human beings.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

What negative prejudice ?

The underlying prejudice in this is anti male.

And I am one.

male to female trans are viewed as a threat because they have penises.

Not because of how they dress , or behave or any of that frippery.

TERF don’t like them because they still see them as MEN.

it’s not anti trans, it’s anti men.

men are a threat, simples.

Until the TERF can be provided with evidence that trans male - female are

not a threat to them, then they will try to protect themselves from , as they see it, men re encroaching on their hard won rights and safe spaces .

To them possession of a loaded cock is worse than a gun, and I get that

All women /girls are at risk from some men . So isn’t it right that safety is the paramount principle in any discussion? As I have said before the whole trans debate has been turned on it’s head with GRA . There was never an issue before with fully transitioned women being in womens spaces . 

Edited April 14, 2022 by JamesM48

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, Ked said:

I think not just him but others have expressed the view about how its felt/seen from a woman's perspective.

Men unfortunately are a threat to women.

Not all of course.

That's how I've read it and not just the doctors post.

 

It's without any credibility that you cast his view as not seeing them as human beings.

 

👍

[graygo]

25 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

All women /girls are at risk from some men . So isn’t it right that safety is the paramount principle in any discussion? As I have said before the whole trans debate has been turned on it’s head with GRA . There was never an issue before with fully transitioned women being in womens spaces . 

Would you agree that all men/boys are at risk from some women and if not why not?

[graygo]

55 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

I’m what way?

im utterly anti prejudice of any kind.

I believe utterly inequality .

I believe in safety , respect and dignity .

I don’t treat anyone badly or lack respect for them because of their beliefs - religious / political/ gender/ race whatever.

Live and let live , that’s fine with me.

I empathise with both trans militant and TERF stances.

However one side is a physical threat to the other,

and the other is a threat to the feelings of the other.

The two are different .

 

A Freudian slip I hope. 😄

[Unknown user]

41 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

What negative prejudice ?

The underlying prejudice in this is anti male.

And I am one.

male to female trans are viewed as a threat because they have penises.

Not because of how they dress , or behave or any of that frippery.

TERF don’t like them because they still see them as MEN.

it’s not anti trans, it’s anti men.

men are a threat, simples.

Until the TERF can be provided with evidence that trans male - female are

not a threat to them, then they will try to protect themselves from , as they see it, men re encroaching on their hard won rights and safe spaces .

To them possession of a loaded cock is worse than a gun, and I get that

Your frequent displays of negative prejudice, you know, the ones where people laugh and go "never a doctor"

[The Dragon Reborn]

I genuinely hate the fact this issue is causing such division and it’s only going to continue as there are no easy solutions. It’s going to drag on and on and just cause more and more arguments. 😔

[Ked]

42 minutes ago, graygo said:

Would you agree that all men/boys are at risk from some women and if not why not?

They are but to try and equate that with the risk from some men towards women doesnt add up.

Boys and men are at more risk from other men.

 

I've had to read up on this issue and was really surprised at the numbers of trans non binary people there are.

I thought it much lower than the estimates.

So I'm not in anyway knowledgeable.

But it does seem you are arguing points that are not valid .

Especially trying to equate violence against women by men with violence against men by women.

 

[AlimOzturk]

Let’s just give in and give the trans community what they want. Then watch as women create a far bigger fuss than the trans community ever could as their rights are eroded into nothing as they struggle to compete with men pretending to be women.  

Nothing worse than a women scorned. 

 

[graygo]

36 minutes ago, Ked said:

They are but to try and equate that with the risk from some men towards women doesnt add up.

Boys and men are at more risk from other men.

 

I've had to read up on this issue and was really surprised at the numbers of trans non binary people there are.

I thought it much lower than the estimates.

So I'm not in anyway knowledgeable.

But it does seem you are arguing points that are not valid .

Especially trying to equate violence against women by men with violence against men by women.

 

 

If by "equate" you mean as much as then no that's not what I am saying.

 

"Boys and men are more at risk from other men".  Exactly, where's the thread on that?

 

Sorry but if the numbers are much higher than you thought then surely that strengthens their argument for rights.

 

Also I will argue all day long that violence by anyone is equally abhorrent regardless of which sex is doing it to whatever sex.

[AlimOzturk]

Since people can have their own pronouns I want my own adjectives. 
 

From now on I want to be known as either brilliant or sexy. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

 

skewering the crime stats too As he identifies as female . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Since people can have their own pronouns I want my own adjectives. 
 

From now on I want to be known as either brilliant or sexy. 

And why not ! 😂 

[Ked]

23 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

If by "equate" you mean as much as then no that's not what I am saying.

 

"Boys and men are more at risk from other men".  Exactly, where's the thread on that?

 

Sorry but if the numbers are much higher than you thought then surely that strengthens their argument for rights.

 

Also I will argue all day long that violence by anyone is equally abhorrent regardless of which sex is doing it to whatever sex.

I'm not arguing against the rights of anyone.

You cited that some women are a threat to men boys.

No doubt.

That's why I made my points about the threats posed in the manner I did.

This is the point in general I think james,the doctor were making.

It's about balance..

You seem to ignore the glaringly obvious fact that women suffer violence in all its forms at the hands of men.

As do men.

I find it hard to understand that men who identify as women cant grasp this .

 

 

[graygo]

8 minutes ago, Ked said:

I'm not arguing against the rights of anyone.

You cited that some women are a threat to men boys.

No doubt.

That's why I made my points about the threats posed in the manner I did.

This is the point in general I think james,the doctor were making.

It's about balance..

You seem to ignore the glaringly obvious fact that women suffer violence in all its forms at the hands of men.

As do men.

I find it hard to understand that men who identify as women cant grasp this .

 

It's not about balance though. Not everything has to balance. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

14 minutes ago, Ked said:

I'm not arguing against the rights of anyone.

You cited that some women are a threat to men boys.

No doubt.

That's why I made my points about the threats posed in the manner I did.

This is the point in general I think james,the doctor were making.

It's about balance..

You seem to ignore the glaringly obvious fact that women suffer violence in all its forms at the hands of men.

As do men.

I find it hard to understand that men who identify as women cant grasp this .

 

 

It is fairly obvious . 
 

most violence towards women is from men 

 

most violence towards men is from men 

 

therefore men are more violent than women 

 

men who have not had surgery are still men . One would argue that even if they have had surgery they are still men . Biological men 

 

a person cannot change their sex and never will

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by JamesM48

[Ked]

34 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

It's not about balance though. Not everything has to balance. 

No you are right.

But the balance is definitely against women on the whole.

In day to day life.

And any man identifying as a woman should at least get that first and foremost.

Balance is something we all need to account for.

Hope you take my posts as they are meant Graygo.

I hold no expertise .

And respect to you for taking the views that are not mainstream

 

[graygo]

23 minutes ago, Ked said:

No you are right.

But the balance is definitely against women on the whole.

In day to day life.

And any man identifying as a woman should at least get that first and foremost.

Balance is something we all need to account for.

Hope you take my posts as they are meant Graygo.

I hold no expertise .

And respect to you for taking the views that are not mainstream

 

None of us do mate, despite some declaring that they do because they are part of the LGBTQ community.

That's what gets my goat, I don't even believe everything that I say on the subject I just want to call out the people who can't conceive the possibility that they might be wrong.

[Ked]

40 minutes ago, graygo said:

None of us do mate, despite some declaring that they do because they are part of the LGBTQ community.

That's what gets my goat, I don't even believe everything that I say on the subject I just want to call out the people who can't conceive the possibility that they might be wrong.

It's a really complex thing.

I've no idea how that feels to those affected directly or indirectly.

As for James .

His sexuality (sorry James if I'm talking shit) is perhaps viewed alongside this issue which understandably is nippy.

It's best imo to be tolerant as much as we can but for my part I was brought up in a single parent household with lots of sisters .

 

I always feel the need to stick up for women.

Doesnt mean I'm right mate just giving my slant on it.

Always imo speak up whatever your views.

👍

[graygo]

19 minutes ago, Ked said:

It's a really complex thing.

I've no idea how that feels to those affected directly or indirectly.

As for James .

His sexuality (sorry James if I'm talking shit) is perhaps viewed alongside this issue which understandably is nippy.

It's best imo to be tolerant as much as we can but for my part I was brought up in a single parent household with lots of sisters .

 

I always feel the need to stick up for women.

Doesnt mean I'm right mate just giving my slant on it.

Always imo speak up whatever your views.

👍

 

My "problem" is that I have a foster daughter who claims to be bisexual and has a couple of friends, one is non binary and the other is transgender. Now to me they are all girls but I will support their right to be whatever they want to be, up to a point.  When someone like James says "bully for her" when I tell him how my foster daughter feels, well that's a red rag to a bull for me. I've yet to hear him argue against a female transgendering to a male.

 

ps. It's not a complex thing, ***** = female, cock = male. ©James

Edited April 14, 2022 by graygo

[jack D and coke]

2 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

It is fairly obvious . 
 

most violence towards women is from men 

 

most violence towards men is from men 

 

therefore men are more violent than women 

 

men who have not had surgery are still men . One would argue that even if they have had surgery they are still men . Biological men 

 

a person cannot change their sex and never will

 

 

Men are violent arseholes we have to be honest. Creepy weirdos too. Obviously most men are good but it’s men who are the ones we all need to worry about. 
The stuff my daughter and niece tell me about mens behaviour creeps me right out. Their dm’s or even just walking round Tesco men are saying weird creepy stuff.
Not being a creep myself it’s hard to comprehend but it’s eye opening. 
Men who want to be women and in womens spaces are concerning to me…Again not all I’m sure most trans people are of no danger to anyone…
There’s so much shit to happen with all this down the tracks. 
 

 

[Ked]

58 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

My "problem" is that I have a foster daughter who claims to be bisexual and has a couple of friends, one is non binary and the other is transgender. Now to me they are all girls but I will support their right to be whatever they want to be, up to a point.  When someone like James says "bully for her" when I tell him how my foster daughter feels, well that's a red rag to a bull for me. I've yet to hear him argue against a female transgendering to a male.

 

ps. It's not a complex thing, ***** = female, cock = male. ©James

It's a complex thing for you mate not so much for us not involved.

However upon my limited reading of this the majority of teenagers go on to no follow through the trans thing.

My language isn't what it should be regarding this I know.

What I'm sure of is that you are a caring man .

I've recently had to rely on people like you.

It warms my bitter old heart .

My daughter has had not the best time but through selfless people like you we have gotten to a place where theres hope.

Sorry if I'm going all of topic but it's the same good that you are trying to do that puts me and others to shame .

Bit dramatic my words but when you are on the receiving end of goodness its emotional.

 

Still like to argue points but I hope my posts are respect buddy

[Ked]

Just now, Ked said:

It's a complex thing for you mate not so much for us not involved.

However upon my limited reading of this the majority of teenagers go on to no follow through the trans thing.

My language isn't what it should be regarding this I know.

What I'm sure of is that you are a caring man .

I've recently had to rely on people like you.

It warms my bitter old heart .

My daughter has had not the best time but through selfless people like you we have gotten to a place where theres hope.

Sorry if I'm going all of topic but it's the same good that you are trying to do that puts me and others to shame .

Bit dramatic my words but when you are on the receiving end of goodness its emotional.

 

Still like to argue points but I hope my posts are respect buddy

Mean to say teens dont follow through the trans thing.

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 hours ago, Ked said:

Mean to say teens dont follow through the trans thing.

Correct . Most teens , massive percentage do not follow though the trans things and you know what ? Come out the other side as gay or lesbian adults . Most happy within their skin . It’s geting to that point which is the concern now due to trans ideology / influence . If trans where such a prevalence where were they all pre internet days ? I never even thought it was in the “ Wrong body” when I was a teenager but knew I was gay and knew it was going to be a harder journey in life due to that but I didn’t cop out and go down the trans route as I wasn’t influenced by any of it . It was  almost unknown then . Now when a young person knows they are gay there seems to be the added confusion deliberately added by militants to their phyche that they might be gay and that confuses them even further . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 hours ago, Ked said:

It's a complex thing for you mate not so much for us not involved.

However upon my limited reading of this the majority of teenagers go on to no follow through the trans thing.

My language isn't what it should be regarding this I know.

What I'm sure of is that you are a caring man .

I've recently had to rely on people like you.

It warms my bitter old heart .

My daughter has had not the best time but through selfless people like you we have gotten to a place where theres hope.

Sorry if I'm going all of topic but it's the same good that you are trying to do that puts me and others to shame .

Bit dramatic my words but when you are on the receiving end of goodness its emotional.

 

Still like to argue points but I hope my posts are respect buddy

To be honest he lost me when he said his foster daughter “. Claimed “ to be bisexual . Why use the term “ claimed “ it’s not something young people really make up , acceptance is everything at that age . 

[Unknown user]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

To be honest he lost me when he said his foster daughter “. Claimed “ to be bisexual . Why use the term “ claimed “ it’s not something young people really make up , acceptance is everything at that age . 

 

And what if she'd claimed to be a boy in the wrong body?

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Men are violent arseholes we have to be honest. Creepy weirdos too. Obviously most men are good but it’s men who are the ones we all need to worry about. 
The stuff my daughter and niece tell me about mens behaviour creeps me right out. Their dm’s or even just walking round Tesco men are saying weird creepy stuff.
Not being a creep myself it’s hard to comprehend but it’s eye opening. 
Men who want to be women and in womens spaces are concerning to me…Again not all I’m sure most trans people are of no danger to anyone…
There’s so much shit to happen with all this down the tracks. 
 

 

Very true Jack D . I think that why some men get angry in the trans debate due to that very issue . They are very sensitive/ defensive  to it but it’s true . Not all men as you said . I’ve female friend who tell me similar horror stories. 
 

Some mens behaviours have to change .  I’m not so sure about gay men and violence but it’s certainly less than “ straight “ men in the stats but then there might be some violent “ straight “ men who are in the closet and their violence is due to repression of their sexuality . I brought this point up at a domestic abuse course I was on and the tutor thought it was a interesting point but there has been hardly any research about gays and violence . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

JAN MOIR: Sorry, but women don't want changing rooms open to all...they should be sacrosanct  | Daily Mail Online