LIONS, LIONS, LIONS

[John Findlay]

8 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

VDM got man of match Wednesday from SA broadcasters. Looks like they are sharing the awards out.

Should have gave him it today too.

[I P Knightley]

5 hours ago, Tazio said:

I was a bit shocked by that. Apparently the choice was by the South African broadcasters. Maybe they’re playing mind games trying to get him in the test team knowing what proper international centres will do to him. I was about to post that the experiment of him at centre wasn’t working when they announced it, so I didn’t as I thought maybe my opinion was wrong. 

About as successful as putting Johnny May at flanker or Elliott Daly at scrum half 😄.

 

While we're on the topic, what kind of dickhead manages to get himself yellow carded when his team is home and hosed by repeatedly infringing on the edges of the maul, with the ref giving him warnings not to infringe?

 

Oh yeah! Only the tour captain. What a knob!

[I P Knightley]

4 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Should have gave him it today too.

Apart from a rash offload following an excellent take under the high ball, I can't remember him doing anything wrong. If I were selecting, my wingers would be Adams and VdM - no doubt, no debate.

 

Harris really working his way into contention; I honestly can't think of a foot he's put wrong. Bundee Aki inside him. 

 

Happy with Biggar at 10 while we've not seen enough of Murray to convince me he deserves a test place ahead of either Davies or Price.

 

6 and 7 should really be Beirne and Watson; I'm not as sure about Faletau now as I was before the tour for 8. Wouldn't give it to Conan, though; he was shaky today.

 

Locks are much of a muchness, tbh. Itoje would make my test team if fit; playing beside another lock. 

 

L C-D for hooker, edging Owens but I'll be happy to concede the other way Ron if it keeps George out the team. Wyn Jones and Tadgh Furlong either side of him; although I'd be fine if it were Suzz.

 

All that so far. Bound to change as we have more matches. This tour is quite different to those from 20-odd years ago where there was a clear divide between the test squad and the "dirt trackers". No one is on this tour just to make up numbers for the mid-week matches - apart from Rees-Zammit. 

[John Findlay]

7 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

Apart from a rash offload following an excellent take under the high ball, I can't remember him doing anything wrong. If I were selecting, my wingers would be Adams and VdM - no doubt, no debate.

 

Harris really working his way into contention; I honestly can't think of a foot he's put wrong. Bundee Aki inside him. 

 

Happy with Biggar at 10 while we've not seen enough of Murray to convince me he deserves a test place ahead of either Davies or Price.

 

6 and 7 should really be Beirne and Watson; I'm not as sure about Faletau now as I was before the tour for 8. Wouldn't give it to Conan, though; he was shaky today.

 

Locks are much of a muchness, tbh. Itoje would make my test team if fit; playing beside another lock. 

 

L C-D for hooker, edging Owens but I'll be happy to concede the other way Ron if it keeps George out the team. Wyn Jones and Tadgh Furlong either side of him; although I'd be fine if it were Suzz.

 

All that so far. Bound to change as we have more matches. This tour is quite different to those from 20-odd years ago where there was a clear divide between the test squad and the "dirt trackers". No one is on this tour just to make up numbers for the mid-week matches - apart from Rees-Zammit. 

When it comes to the backs, I actually find it's a tougher choice than the forwards!! I think full back is between Williams and Hogg. I think Williams may get the nod as he is(imho) better than Hogg under the high ball. VDM and Adams the wingers. I would make Price scrum half, Biggar fly half. Harris and Farell for centres. Not a fan of Farell but I believe Gatland is.

[milky_26]

finn russell potentially out of the tour 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57792507

[I P Knightley]

3 hours ago, milky_26 said:

finn russell potentially out of the tour 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57792507

The way the Boks are passing the virus from one to the other, I'll be surprised if the rest of the tour isn't out of the tour.

[milky_26]

4 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

The way the Boks are passing the virus from one to the other, I'll be surprised if the rest of the tour isn't out of the tour.

its what 20 of them that have had it so far

[DETTY29]

Team for Wednesday against South Africa 'A'

 

Suggests even more Hogg is 'case zero'

 

British and Irish Lions: Watson; Rees-Zammit, Harris, Aki, Adams; Biggar, Murray (capt); Jones, Owens, Sinckler, Itoje, Henderson, Navidi, Curry, Faletau.

 

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Vunipola, Fagerson, Beard, Beirne, Simmonds, Davies, Daly.

[I P Knightley]

Team announced for Wednesday v South Africa 'A'.. Still no Hogg or Henshaw.

 

Chris Harris back at 13, outside Bundee Aki. He's the only Scot in the 15 with Fagerson on the bench.

 

Murray and Biggar start as half-backs; a chance to see how well they work together.

[I P Knightley]

2 hours ago, Barack said:

Wouldn't have put good money at the start of the Tour, that between Hogg & the Springjock, it would be VdM that's nailed his test start slot.

 

Obviously, given Hogg appears to be a super spreader, hasn't helped his cause. Be lucky to get the 15 back now.

Liam Williams hasn't really set the heather alight when he had the chance. They're about to try Anthony Watson who's a bit of a media darling. I don't get it myself but we'll see what he can do. I still think Hoggy's in contention.

 

Hadn't heard "Springjock" before - that'll do nicely now!

[Mikey1874]

8 hours ago, jonnothejambo said:

This will be like another Test Match against South Africa 'A'.

 

I've just seen their team and it included Faf de Klerk at 9 plus some notable others.

 

They will aim to do some damage both mentally and physically.

 

Works both ways. 

 

Shadow boxing and deception too. Fascinating. 

[I P Knightley]

19 hours ago, jonnothejambo said:

This will be like another Test Match against South Africa 'A'.

 

I've just seen their team and it included Faf de Klerk at 9 plus some notable others.

 

They will aim to do some damage both mentally and physically.

Erasmus has offered to make Saturday's match against the same SA 'A' squad instead of the Stormers based on covid security. It makes a lot of sense to me to keep the number of players exposed to each other as low as possible but Gatland's having none of it.

[John Findlay]

6 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

Erasmus has offered to make Saturday's match against the same SA 'A' squad instead of the Stormers based on covid security. It makes a lot of sense to me to keep the number of players exposed to each other as low as possible but Gatland's having none of it.

I actually agree with Gatland on this one.

[I P Knightley]

Just now, John Findlay said:

I actually agree with Gatland on this one.

Ach, I can see both sides.

 

The coronavirus-phobe in me says that playing the same squad twice reduces the odds of transferring the virus compared to playing two different squads.

 

The professional rugby coach in me says that variety will help with the technical preparations better.

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

The South Africa  tactics are clear. 

 

Cripple as many Lions as possible prior to the Tests. 

 

The tried it back in 1997 but it failed however they know no other way. It's their only chance of beating the Lions.

That was my thinking, they want to soften the lions up. They can play rugby but they do relish the physical side.

[John Findlay]

18 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

I'm currently reading Tom English's book about the 1997 tour This Is Your Everest.

 

It's a great read and it stresses the physicality of the Boks. It's in their DNA. 

 

That test series was brutal. 

Although amateurs. I think the 1974 test series was possibly the most brutal of the lot.

[John Findlay]

15 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

Aye. Was that the 99 call ?

It was indeed. Lions led by the incomparable Willie John McBride 

[John Findlay]

11 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

When you hear the call lamp whoever is nearest to you...

 

Then have some beers after the match.

 

 

When men were men and all four legged animals were nervous😂

[Mikey1874]

Back for 2nd test? But if he's stayed fit...

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

IMO, Not a great decision to bring AWJ back into squad. He won't be fit, not match fit, and this reeks of putting personal glory before to series victory.

If he gets hit in same area again, and let's face it, it's an obvious target for opponents, it will be downer on rest of players and could end his career.

[I P Knightley]

11 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

IMO, Not a great decision to bring AWJ back into squad. He won't be fit, not match fit, and this reeks of putting personal glory before to series victory.

If he gets hit in same area again, and let's face it, it's an obvious target for opponents, it will be downer on rest of players and could end his career.

Fully agree. It makes no sense. The locks already on the tour are more than good enough; they don't need to have the threat of being overlooked for an old carthorse with a broken wing. He may be fantastic for squad morale as an assistant coach and holding the tackle bags but I can't think of any reason to rush him back.

[I P Knightley]

22 hours ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

When you hear the call lamp whoever is nearest to you...

 

Then have some beers after the match.

 

 

A very clever move but with TMOs, you wouldn't get away with it nowadays. I remember playing one game where there was niggle between a small number of the players - mainly the scrum-halves 'cos there's something wrong in all of their heads. When it kicked off, the rest of us joined in up against our opposite numbers just with the logic that neither side wanted to see a man sent off. It worked - tensions evaporated and the game played out 15 v 15. The guy opposite me was a good lad and we'd been enjoying ourselves before the pagger so having beers after the match was totally obvious.

 

Anyway. 7pm kick off?

[I P Knightley]

Biggar out with a dodgy ankle - Farrell in.

 

Adams out to Zoom attend the birth of his child - Liam Williams in.

 

I don't think either change particularly weakens the starting XV.

 

Gatland's also taken Kelleher on to the tour as a fourth hooker. Claims there are no injuries; he just wants another hooker. Strange late decision if all as stated.

[Tazio]

3 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

Fully agree. It makes no sense. The locks already on the tour are more than good enough; they don't need to have the threat of being overlooked for an old carthorse with a broken wing. He may be fantastic for squad morale as an assistant coach and holding the tackle bags but I can't think of any reason to rush him back.

Not fully fit, potential for the same injury occurring, and up against Eben Etzebeth? 
What could possibly go wrong? 

[I P Knightley]

Anyone got a link to a stream for tonight?

[DETTY29]

One or two playing their way out of a potential test place.

 

e.g Rees-Zammit proving he does not the required physicality and unable to do hand offs if his direct marker denies the space.

Edited July 14, 2021 by DETTY29

[I P Knightley]

28 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

One or two playing their way out of a potential test place.

 

e.g Rees-Zammit proving he does not the required physicality and unable to do hand offs if his direct marker denies the space.

Shoulders Farrell played poorly for the first 20 minutes. He tried to chip it over the hugest man in the whole of South Africa, ffs.

 

LR-Z showing that he's not got it in defence or in a tight situation. A bit like Adams, who's a great finisher but isn't going to bust a line.

 

L Williams had his head knocked off so will be missing for a bit.

 

Connor Murray - very, very poor decision making after the second yellow card to keep them pressing the line. Spin it out, man, y'eejit - Christ!! Box kicking has been atrocious.

 

Need to see that try where LR-Z and Harris let the wee fella between them. Think it's possibly more on Harris but looked like lightning footwork. 

[I P Knightley]

LR-Z's attempt to get the high ball there was just embarrassing.

 

Anthony Watson looking like he's out and, with Daly having replaced Williams, we've got two scrummies on the pitch.

 

Correction - Watson made of sterner stuff.

Edited July 14, 2021 by I P Knightley

[Mikey1874]

Late stream come on

 

http://www.hesgoal.com/news/82700/South_Africa_B_vs_British_and_Irish_Lions.html

[Footballfirst]

The Lions got what they deserved in that game.  One dimensional driving through the forwards, no flair players, poor decision making, excessive and poor kicking.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Footballfirst

[Tazio]

I was disappointed in Simmonds when he came on, he’s normally much better. Vunipola is no good in this type of tour. No dynamism to his play and that’s no good for a prop nowadays. You can’t have a big lad who’s basically a pushing machine. 

[Tazio]

Itoje saying in the post match that South Africa never change their style and never have. 
Clearly he doesn’t remember the World Cup where they played totally different systems in the semi and the final to England’s dismay and confusion. 

[DETTY29]

Ronan O'Gara goes

 

 

Vunipola

George

Furlong

Itoje

Wyn-Jones

Bierne

Watson

Curry

 

Murray

Farrell

Williams

Aki

Daly

Watson

Hogg

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by DETTY29

[The Mighty Thor]

I think a few of them have probably played themselves out of contention tonight. 

I thought Curry was poor as was Navidi. They were out battled all night. Murray is too slow in thought and if Farrell wore a blue jersey he wouldn’t be in Cape Town. 

[Tazio]

7 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Ronan O'Gara goes

 

 

Vunipola

George

Furlong

Itoje

Wyn-Jones

Bierne

Watson

Curry

 

Murray

Farrell

Williams

Aki

Daly

Watson

Hogg

 

I’m not sure he’s recovered from the beating he took in Australia playing for the Lions. Murray and Farrell? Seriously? 

[DETTY29]

9 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I think a few of them have probably played themselves out of contention tonight. 

I thought Curry was poor as was Navidi. They were out battled all night. Murray is too slow in thought and if Farrell wore a blue jersey he wouldn’t be in Cape Town. 

Apart from his break in first half Curry certainly didn't push players out of the way, put them back in the tackle or scavenge anywhere close to what Watson has done so far.  I'm sort of wondering what all the hype has been about.

[Tazio]

Watching the post shows McGeechan is on a different level in terms of analysis and reading of players. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

16 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Ronan O'Gara goes

 

 

Vunipola

George

Furlong

Itoje

Wyn-Jones

Bierne

Watson

Curry

 

Murray

Farrell

Williams

Aki

Daly

Watson

Hogg

 

O'Gara must be drunk or having a laugh.

Farrell, Daly and Curry not good enough. Vunipola is a busted flush, and was destroyed in world cup final.

Does A Watson have dodgy photos of pundits and commentators. He is a flashy show pony who fails to deliver on every big game he plays in.

 

For wingers, Adams scores tries whenever he plays and has to start. VDM is flying and can cope with physicality they face.

[Seymour M Hersh]

11 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Apart from his break in first half Curry certainly didn't push players out of the way, put them back in the tackle or scavenge anywhere close to what Watson has done so far.  I'm sort of wondering what all the hype has been about.

 

One hack on the BBC live feed was waxing lyrical about Curry playing himself into test contention and another in the Telegraph saying pretty much the same but including that it's HW he'd be replacing. As soon as I read the comments I wondered what the reality was. Good to see a virtual unanimous meh to poor on here over his performance. 

[Tazio]

The Sky rugby channel are currently showing the 1st test from the Lions New Zealand tour from 2005. That All Blacks team really was exceptional when they were on song. Not as many of the big names as other ones but a machine of a team, with Dan Carter driving the whole shebang. 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Tazio

[I P Knightley]

58 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

O'Gara must be drunk or having a laugh.

Farrell, Daly and Curry not good enough. Vunipola is a busted flush, and was destroyed in world cup final.

Does A Watson have dodgy photos of pundits and commentators. He is a flashy show pony who fails to deliver on every big game he plays in.

 

For wingers, Adams scores tries whenever he plays and has to start. VDM is flying and can cope with physicality they face.

O'Gara needs HIA.

Vunipola is not any good. 

Wyn-Jones will be a liability.

He's selecting Mish AND Curry?

Connor Murray is slow-thinking and his box kicking was shite. But he can't half moan at a ref. 

Farrell's play improved in the second half, but it had to and outside Murray he actually looked decent. 

Adams is a great finisher but look at the tries he's scored so far: all of them laid on a plate by work or ingenuity inside him. Tonight showed that the winger will have to do hard work to make the tries happen. I thought that A Watson looked good in that regard this evening, as did Daly. I'd have either of them ahead of Adams.

VdM would have had a try where LRZ came up short.

[Mikey1874]

Gatland would never try to fool the South Africans about how they will play in tests, would he. 

 

 

[DETTY29]

Hogg back in as captain.

 

 

[I P Knightley]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

Gatland would never try to fool the South Africans about how they will play in tests, would he. 

 

 

I think that's exactly what he's doing but it worries me that the combinations he wants to play aren't getting any match time together. Either that or it worries me that he actually wants to play one of the line-ups we've seen in the last 2 or 3 games.

 

Interested to see this Marcus Smith fella in action. I don't watch club rugby too closely but a group of pals have STs for Quins and have been good things to say about him. Can't see him getting past a fit Biggar having come to the tour so late but if the plan had been to play Finn, from what I hear, Smith is the next best thing.

 

Henshaw getting his first squad appearance but no mention of him having to self-isolate. Wonder what he did to be missing out this long? I'm happy with Aki and Harris at 12 and 13 and Daly on the bench who can cover 11 to 15. Just odd not to have seen what Henshaw can do.

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

The lesser spotted Hogg getting outing on Saturday, as are a few of the Scots. Hopefully they'll perform well or else I fear a test team back division stuffed full of Englishmen, with zero creativity and zero spark.

[Mikey1874]

http://www.hesgoal.com/news/82976/Stormers_vs_British_and_Irish_Lions.html

[The Mighty Thor]

BBC preview reckons the 7 Jersey is Curry's due to his awesome performance against South Africa A and Watson is an outside chance for a start next weekend. 🤔

[milky_26]

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

BBC preview reckons the 7 Jersey is Curry's due to his awesome performance against South Africa A and Watson is an outside chance for a start next weekend. 🤔

they also reckon williams is better than hogg

[DETTY29]

Price keeping tempo of game up and lots of variation.

 

Murray shouldn't be a shoe in at all for next Saturday.

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, DETTY29 said:

Price keeping tempo of game up and lots of variation.

 

Murray shouldn't be a shoe in at all for next Saturday.

 

 

Ali Price should start. 

The bokke already know what Murray is going to do every time, slow it down and then box kick it away. 

Price snipes, breaks the line and opens it up for the backs.