LIONS, LIONS, LIONS

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, merrymac said:

Agree but you would have to say that Rassie video has had an effect.

Think he has his green contacts in

 

Not seen it to be honest. Obviously know about it but was it more for his team? 

[Malinga the Swinga]

3 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Only blame here is at Gatlands door. Kiwi twat. 

Agree that Gatland has to take responsibility but ref hasn't helped. He bottled sending Colby off, and has been myopic in his refereeing. Pings Lions immediately but gives benefit to SA at every contact.

[merrymac]

Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Not seen it to be honest. Obviously know about it but was it more for his team? 

He basically dissected every decision against the Boks in 1st test, and all but called the ref a cheat, even though a lot of his interpretation was pretty dodgy. Did the job though.Got all the calls in this game.

This ref is scared to make a decision and is referring everything, which means the Boks are getting the rests that they need.

 

[I P Knightley]

Lions have been dreadful in almost every aspect of the game. Saffers have really upped their game. Watson possibly the most atrocious of a poor bunch. 

[The Mighty Thor]

7 minutes ago, merrymac said:

Be interesting to see Gatland's one hour video after this ref performance

 

5 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Only blame here is at Gatlands door. Kiwi twat. 

Gatland shat it. Allowed his team to be bullied. 

 

Murray? 😂

[merrymac]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

Gatland shat it. Allowed his team to be bullied. 

 

Murray? 😂

Murray was a shocking decision

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Not seen it to be honest. Obviously know about it but was it more for his team? 

Nope, it was an hour rant stating ref has given no respect to SA and they were cheated. He basically said ref didn't treat their captain with respect because he was black. 

It's why Erasmus is acting as water boy. He is in refs eyeline and ear the whole game. Sets a dangerous precedent for rugby allowing this sort of pressure to be brought onto officials.

[merrymac]

Just now, Malinga the Swinga said:

Nope, it was an hour rant stating ref has given no respect to SA and they were cheated. He basically said ref didn't treat their captain with respect because he was black. 

It's why Erasmus is acting as water boy. He is in refs eyeline and ear the whole game. Sets a dangerous precedent for rugby allowing this sort of pressure to be brought onto officials.

Do anything to win mentality

[Cruyff]

Absolute tanking second half. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

Just now, merrymac said:

Murray was a shocking decision

Murray, Curry and A Watson shocking decisions to be in team.

Vunipola starting was an even worse decision as he can't ****ing scrum, which as a prop, is his main job.

Lawes reverted to English form and did nowt. AWJ unable to influence ref therefore did nothing as that's all he ever does.

Finally Mish being left out of squad was inexplicable.

 

[Tazio]

People always talk about the Boks being all about the forwards but Pollard is a great player. He’s like a combination of all the Lions number 10’s in one player. 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Nope, it was an hour rant stating ref has given no respect to SA and they were cheated. He basically said ref didn't treat their captain with respect because he was black. 

It's why Erasmus is acting as water boy. He is in refs eyeline and ear the whole game. Sets a dangerous precedent for rugby allowing this sort of pressure to be brought onto officials.

Erasmus can barely speak English so just rants. He's questioned the integrity of the game and should be punished. Roaster of a man. 

 

Regardless of the sideshow, Gatland got his tactics wrong.

[merrymac]

Just now, Malinga the Swinga said:

Murray, Curry and A Watson shocking decisions to be in team.

Vunipola starting was an even worse decision as he can't ****ing scrum, which as a prop, is his main job.

Lawes reverted to English form and did nowt. AWJ unable to influence ref therefore did nothing as that's all he ever does.

Finally Mish being left out of squad was inexplicable.

 

You can add Conin at No 8 to that list

[Seymour M Hersh]

8 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Agree that Gatland has to take responsibility but ref hasn't helped. He bottled sending Colby off, and has been myopic in his refereeing. Pings Lions immediately but gives benefit to SA at every contact.

 

Not sure it was a red tbh his eyes never left the flight of the ball. I thought that dirty wee shite de Klerk sohould have had a yellow for the no arms tackle just before the first half ended though. Not sure it was even penalised. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, merrymac said:

You can add Conin at No 8 to that list

And hooker, but then I saw Owens performance when he came on! Couldn't hit barn door with line out throws.

Wait till we read reports. It will be being in Welsh players, completely ignoring it was coach who caused it.

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Erasmus can barely speak English so just rants. He's questioned the integrity of the game and should be punished. Roaster of a man. 

 

Regardless of the sideshow, Gatland got his tactics wrong.

 

Like most Afrikaans he looks like he's just finished an 8 hour shift digging trenches on the farm. Horrible lot. 

[I P Knightley]

Neither Murray nor Watson should be near the 23 next week. Daly can eff right off, too.

Jamie George can replace Owens. 

Gatland either selected the wrong players for the game he wanted to play or tried to play the wrong game with those players. To be honest, I don't know what kind of game I'd be trying to play against the Boks if Connor Murray was my scrum half.  

[merrymac]

Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Not sure it was a red tbh his eyes never left the flight of the ball. I thought that dirty wee shite de Klerk sohould have had a yellow for the no arms tackle just before the first half ended though. Not sure it was even penalised. 

Heard Owens say that eyes on the ball is no mitigation.

He bottled it, you could see a number of similar given reds.

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, merrymac said:

Heard Owens say that eyes on the ball is no mitigation.

He bottled it, you could see a number of similar given reds.

 

 

Was listening to SA commentators on a stream. Mind you I disagreed with Owens last week over Mish being yellowed. 

[I P Knightley]

1 minute ago, merrymac said:

Heard Owens say that eyes on the ball is no mitigation.

He bottled it, you could see a number of similar given reds.

 

Elliot Daly v Argentina is worth a look. 

[merrymac]

Unfortunately think Hogg will be replaced next week.

Contributed nothing going forward and poor under high ball. Liam Williams a cert

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Not sure it was a red tbh his eyes never left the flight of the ball. I thought that dirty wee shite de Klerk sohould have had a yellow for the no arms tackle just before the first half ended though. Not sure it was even penalised. 

Doesn't matter if his eyes watch ball or not. He has duty to not touch player jumping and he didn't jump himself, therefore it was dangerous. Only not red as Murray stuck arm out to break fall. 

Would have been red with neutral ref or a braver one but this guy obviously didn't fancy getting abuse from Erasmus.

Cowardly performance from referee and cowardly from Gatland.

Can't be arsed listening to Warburton and Greenwood as they will blame Scots and ignore Murray, Curry Watson, Vunipola and Lawes.

[I P Knightley]

A-WJ stats: 6 carries, 2 metres made. Some guy!!

[Roxy Hearts]

1 minute ago, I P Knightley said:

A-WJ stats: 6 carries, 2 metres made. Some guy!!

He's dreadful. Lawes quiet this week too. Need Hamish Watson back. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

Just now, merrymac said:

Unfortunately think Hogg will be replaced next week.

Contributed nothing going forward and poor under high ball. Liam Williams a cert

Sadly, you are almost certainly correct. This despite fact Hogg had to cover right side of pitch as Watson unable to do anything defensive.

Waste of time having Russell and young Harlequins player out there. They don't just kick ball miles in air therefore Gatland doesn't like them.

Even today, we would have gone ahead but Biggar missed sitter, and Lions paid price. Of he isn't kicking penalties, then Biggar contributes nothing. Never made a break on his life.

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

A-WJ stats: 6 carries, 2 metres made. Some guy!!

All AWJ does is get in refs ear. If ref doesn't listen, then AWJ contributes nothing as he is finished as a player.

Doesn't win line ours, doesn't make line breaks, doesn't rip tackle and doesn't win turnovers.

Media won't demand he be dropped though, as he is apparently a legend.

If referees like Nigel and other Northern Hemisphere reffed games on what happens and not in reputation, then AWJ's stats today would be seen every game.

[I P Knightley]

4 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Sadly, you are almost certainly correct. This despite fact Hogg had to cover right side of pitch as Watson unable to do anything defensive.

Waste of time having Russell and young Harlequins player out there. They don't just kick ball miles in air therefore Gatland doesn't like them.

Even today, we would have gone ahead but Biggar missed sitter, and Lions paid price. Of he isn't kicking penalties, then Biggar contributes nothing. Never made a break on his life.

 

I'd sooner put Williams on for Watson. 

[merrymac]

3 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Sadly, you are almost certainly correct. This despite fact Hogg had to cover right side of pitch as Watson unable to do anything defensive.

Waste of time having Russell and young Harlequins player out there. They don't just kick ball miles in air therefore Gatland doesn't like them.

Even today, we would have gone ahead but Biggar missed sitter, and Lions paid price. Of he isn't kicking penalties, then Biggar contributes nothing. Never made a break on his life.

 

Its a fun exciting game when the ball never got past either No 10.

I seriously hate the way the Boks play non rugby, and Gatland is not much better.

I fear for rugby as a spectacle if this is the way its going

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, merrymac said:

Its a fun exciting game when the ball never got past either No 10.

I seriously hate the way the Boks play non rugby, and Gatland is not much better.

I fear for rugby as a spectacle if this is the way its going

 

The trouble is it has brought success to SA. Others will maybe see it as the way forward which would be terribly depressing. At least Gatland won't be near the Lions again. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

3 minutes ago, merrymac said:

Its a fun exciting game when the ball never got past either No 10.

I seriously hate the way the Boks play non rugby, and Gatland is not much better.

I fear for rugby as a spectacle if this is the way its going

It's murder to watch but effective as long as ref buys into what is happening.

Union going same was as rugby league but at least league kick on 6th tackle.

Scrum/line out followed by rolling mail then box kick and chase.

Shocking stuff but you know it's coming so do something to get round it. Gatland just tried to out bok the Springboks. 

Stupid tactics from a coach who has been found out in NZ at his team, but is still able to con Northern Hemisphere media with his shit style. 

 

[I P Knightley]

4 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

It's murder to watch but effective as long as ref buys into what is happening.

Union going same was as rugby league but at least league kick on 6th tackle.

Scrum/line out followed by rolling mail then box kick and chase.

Shocking stuff but you know it's coming so do something to get round it. Gatland just tried to out bok the Springboks. 

Stupid tactics from a coach who has been found out in NZ at his team, but is still able to con Northern Hemisphere media with his shit style. 

 

Spot on in every regard. Gatland's not a clever man. 

[CMc]

First game: Lions desperatere to grab a shirt. Playing out their skins. 
 

second game: A few folk too comfortable. 
 

With the team we picked, set piece execution was going to have to be perfect. Mako gifted so many penalties. We were arguably better at the lineout from their throw. 
 

The aerial battle was the worst sector though. Hogg was given far too much ground to cover and not enough cover whilst gathering. SH teams often play the double 15 formation to mitigate against this style of play. They are also far more canny about making sure two players go for the ball (to screen the one who is really going for it). Hogg was exposed a lot. 
 

Worry that we now have to be reactive to the kicking game. The Boks will know we will spend the whole week working on kick defence and potentially change personnel to mitigate. Great chance for them to switch to battering it up the gut instead and ruin all our prep. However, if we are that shit under the highball again next week, they can just do the same again to win the series. Feels lose lose. 
 

We need to go back to basics. Pick a team to win the scrum and the lineout. Price back at 9. Move them around and tire them. Kick well for touch. Maybe bring Farrell on for Biggar to facilitate this (didn’t expect to say that at the start of series). Obviously would take Finn over both if fit. 
 

We need much more intensity in the forwards. AWJ’s battered face told a story last night.  Could see changes at Back row. 
 

Need to get back on the front foot to get the run of the green from the ref. 

[The Mighty Thor]

Gatland got it very wrong. 

Someone must have told him the Saffers are shit under the high ball as that's all the Lions had last night. 

Box kick after box kick or Biggar trying the wee chip through or high cross field. 

Failed. Every time. 

 

Long way back for them here. A very long way back. 

[I P Knightley]

4 hours ago, Barack said:

He's probably more likely to be cited.

That being said, Williams will come in. So will Adams for VdM. Hogg...if World Rugby don't take a look at the above clip (and the SA public & media are making it easier for them to do,by highlighting it everywhere...) then Hogg may hang onto FB, with Williams and Adams on the wings.

 

Murray needs sat down. And if there's any possibility of getting Russell 25-30 minutes, then it's surely worth a gamble. Even the Quins kid, if not.

 

Watson will be back in, and I suspect Navidi & Beard.

There's a statement from Hogg this morning emphatically denying that it's a bit. Christ knows what it is, though. It doesn't quite look like a chomp and it doesn't look like he's wiping his nose on the guy's sleeve.

 

I've been thinking that there was nothing that team did right yesterday except, perhaps, Henshaw and Harris looking strong in midfield. I'd drop:

 

* Vunipola from the 23

* A-W J from the XV for sure - his advantage as a gobby captain has been nullified and he's got nothing else.

* Curry to the bench. I'll give Lawes a chance to play to his first test standard again.

* Murray out of the 23.

* A Watson out of the 23. Williams to take his place on the wing so that Hogg hasn't got to do the work of 2 men.

* Daly out of the 23.

 

There are loud cries to bring in Adams but I still don't see that he'd be a better choice than DvM. Certainly wouldn't have crunched PSdT to the ground and put him out of the match. Probably wouldn't have fly-hacked the oppo and picked up a lucky yellow card, though!

[merrymac]

1 hour ago, I P Knightley said:

There's a statement from Hogg this morning emphatically denying that it's a bit. Christ knows what it is, though. It doesn't quite look like a chomp and it doesn't look like he's wiping his nose on the guy's sleeve.

 

I've been thinking that there was nothing that team did right yesterday except, perhaps, Henshaw and Harris looking strong in midfield. I'd drop:

 

* Vunipola from the 23

* A-W J from the XV for sure - his advantage as a gobby captain has been nullified and he's got nothing else.

* Curry to the bench. I'll give Lawes a chance to play to his first test standard again.

* Murray out of the 23.

* A Watson out of the 23. Williams to take his place on the wing so that Hogg hasn't got to do the work of 2 men.

* Daly out of the 23.

 

There are loud cries to bring in Adams but I still don't see that he'd be a better choice than DvM. Certainly wouldn't have crunched PSdT to the ground and put him out of the match. Probably wouldn't have fly-hacked the oppo and picked up a lucky yellow card, though!

A mis-timed kick at the ball surely?

[Malinga the Swinga]

Looks like Sinkler cited for biting, whereas Hogg found to have done nothing.

[Seymour M Hersh]

9 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

There's a statement from Hogg this morning emphatically denying that it's a bit. Christ knows what it is, though. It doesn't quite look like a chomp and it doesn't look like he's wiping his nose on the guy's sleeve.

 

I've been thinking that there was nothing that team did right yesterday except, perhaps, Henshaw and Harris looking strong in midfield. I'd drop:

 

* Vunipola from the 23

* A-W J from the XV for sure - his advantage as a gobby captain has been nullified and he's got nothing else.

* Curry to the bench. I'll give Lawes a chance to play to his first test standard again.

* Murray out of the 23.

* A Watson out of the 23. Williams to take his place on the wing so that Hogg hasn't got to do the work of 2 men.

* Daly out of the 23.

 

There are loud cries to bring in Adams but I still don't see that he'd be a better choice than DvM. Certainly wouldn't have crunched PSdT to the ground and put him out of the match. Probably wouldn't have fly-hacked the oppo and picked up a lucky yellow card, though!

 

Hogg is being made the scapegoat by virtually every commentator/journalist down south. Yes he was poor by his standards but they are allowing for zero mitigation. They don't want DVM in either. Amazingly they all still seem to want Itojie and AWJ to retain their places when they were both ineffective and Jones as captain was found seriously wanting in the second half. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

9 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

There's a statement from Hogg this morning emphatically denying that it's a bit. Christ knows what it is, though. It doesn't quite look like a chomp and it doesn't look like he's wiping his nose on the guy's sleeve.

 

 

Maye he was keeping his face as close to the animals arm as possible to prevent him swinging an elbow into his (Hogg's) face. Looks weird though. 

[I P Knightley]

2 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Hogg is being made the scapegoat by virtually every commentator/journalist down south. Yes he was poor by his standards but they are allowing for zero mitigation. They don't want DVM in either. Amazingly they all still seem to want Itojie and AWJ to retain their places when they were both ineffective and Jones as captain was found seriously wanting in the second half. 

Speaking to a few rugby chums down here, they get it. Watson was well off the boil, Hogg had to do the work of two men so, naturally, looked shaky. They agree that the side needs DvdM and that Alun-Wyn should be of to the glue factory. 

 

The biggest point on which we all agree is the user futility of the provincial games. Playing all these expansive attacking games with novel use of the forwards (not in pods of 3); setting up the tap-in tries for Adams (in particular) and then running out in Cape Town to try a style and formation that they haven't touched all tour; a style which made the Boks world cup winners. That's not on any of the players; it's a coaching calamity. 

[Mikey1874]

2 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Hogg is being made the scapegoat by virtually every commentator/journalist down south. Yes he was poor by his standards but they are allowing for zero mitigation. They don't want DVM in either. Amazingly they all still seem to want Itojie and AWJ to retain their places when they were both ineffective and Jones as captain was found seriously wanting in the second half. 

 

It's a team game that these idiots don't get. 

 

Hogg was left exposed. Not the reason they lost. 

[CMc]

I see that Sinkler is the only one to be cited. That means that they think Kolbe’s midair take down was only a yellow and no arms hits to the head are just yellow. Or the Erasmus stuff has shaken them up. 
 

Faf has got away with two no-arm high tackles in three games. 
 

For balance, think Itoje is also very lucky. Pretty sure he knew what he was doing with the knee to the neck. 

Edit: seems the lions didn’t refer any of the incidents to the citing commissioner. Interesting choice. 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by CMc

[I P Knightley]

1 hour ago, CMc said:

Edit: seems the lions didn’t refer any of the incidents to the citing commissioner. Interesting choice. 

 

I don't know enough about this but isn't it the case that, once an incident has been reviewed on the pitch (with TMO), the citing commissioner won't (or is unlikely to) look at it? I thought that citing was for things the ref had missed completely rather than mis-judged, but I could be thinking of another sport.

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, I P Knightley said:

I don't know enough about this but isn't it the case that, once an incident has been reviewed on the pitch (with TMO), the citing commissioner won't (or is unlikely to) look at it? I thought that citing was for things the ref had missed completely rather than mis-judged, but I could be thinking of another sport.

 

Red cards usually there is a citing. 

[CMc]

1 hour ago, I P Knightley said:

I don't know enough about this but isn't it the case that, once an incident has been reviewed on the pitch (with TMO), the citing commissioner won't (or is unlikely to) look at it? I thought that citing was for things the ref had missed completely rather than mis-judged, but I could be thinking of another sport.

Maybe thinking of football?

 

”Teams may bring offences to the attention of the citing commissioner for review. The citing commissioner may cite a player even if the referee has already dealt with the issue (except where the player has been Ordered Off)”

 

I would have thought world rugby would back the ref (especially in the current climate) and keep the infield decisions, however the referrals might keep the Bok players a bit more honest in the aerial challenges and take a bit of sting out of de Klerk. 
 

I guess they’re keeping their powder dry and using it for internal squad motivation, or going to drop it to the press closer to game time. 
 

Or I’m being overly cynical and they are taking the moral high ground and preserving the spirit of the game/didn’t think they were reds. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by CMc

[PortyJambo]

Matt Dawson's BBC column saying the Lions are crying out for a creative player for the 3rd test, but doesn't mention the most creative player they have in the squad. Talks about Price at SH, Farrell at inside centre and Adams on the wing, but doesn't even mention Finn Russell, or even Marcus Smith if Russell isn't fully fit.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Matt Dawson is an absolute welt and a typical little englander. 

[I P Knightley]

41 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

Matt Dawson is an absolute welt and a typical little englander. 

A post that needs no context

 

[felix]

1 hour ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

He's a wee gobshite. I recall on a previous tour he tore into the management who bottled sending him home.

 

Feckin runt.

Scored  great try in S Africa though

[milky_26]

erasmus to face misconduct hearing for his hour long rant. took them long enough to cite him

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/58064491

[milky_26]

hogg dropped from 23

 

British and Irish Lions: Williams; Adams, Henshaw, Aki, Van der Merwe; Biggar, Price; Jones, Owens, Furlong, Itoje, A Wyn Jones (c), Lawes, Curry, Conan

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Vunipola, Sinckler, Beard, Simmonds, Murray, Russell, Daly