Reconstruction

[TexasAndy]

1 hour ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Ambitions to do what though?  How far can you go as a part time club?  I’d have thought some of the ex junior clubs would enjoy remaining a bigger fish in a smaller pond rather than becoming the next East Stirling, Cowdenbeath, etc and achieving nothing much in a professional league.   
 

As others have suggested, a 2 team league with only full time teams makes more sense.  Could maybe still have some sort of pyramid system but only if teams coming up are capable of going full time. 
 

Did you think it was right that diddy part time clubs were able to have a vote on putting Scotland’s 3rd biggest club down a league and losing £millions and maybe potentially putting our future at risk?

I think the voting rights is a different argument.

[Deevers]

3 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Is it even a vote today or just discussions?  I don’t think it even went to a vote last time because there was little support for it.  Hopefully not much has changed.

I have no doubt their friends in the upper echelons in the SFA and SPFL will lobbying on their behalf with a mixture of sweeteners and threats. The only reconstruction I want to see is leagues of full time teams with the chaff that consistently hold football back here cut free. I hope that ourselves and the bigger clubs ensure that this nonsense is a non starter. 

[Turkishcap]

Take it nothing been leaked yet?

[The Treasurer]

22 minutes ago, Turkishcap said:

Take it nothing been leaked yet?

I've heard some of the votes got lost in the spam folder 

[mitch41]

Reconstruction is inevitable and very necessary because of one major issue, the Old Firm control of what gets done and what doesn’t . With these 2 clubs having a veto it makes Scottish league football all about their interests and nothing else. The more power/money they make the more these two want. And we all have to remember these two would be off to pastures new at the drop of a hat with their Irish Tricolour & Union Jack flags and terrorist/bigoted songs. 
Now I’ve been a great advocate of Football Clubs standards for the Premiership like full-time teams, minimum training facilities, stadiums that hold at least 10,000 seated under cover, grass or hybrid natural grass with artificial fibres, under soil heating, LED ground floodlights, a football academy, TV deals that are equally distributed and not only in place to feed the Old Firm with extra cash every week. Away fans tickets should be looked at where 900 for Ibrox and 1000 for Parkhead has prevented many fans, who would have followed Hearts to these grounds, from even bothering to try for a ticket. 
Yes there’s so much more to think about but the one constant is the fans need to be treated with respect by the SFA, Scottish League, Clubs and the rest from sponsors, TV Companies, media etc. because without the fans we have nothing. 

[Super_Hans]

All 42 SPFL clubs asked to consider expansion to 48 member clubs - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57651255

 

[May one-six]

3 minutes ago, Super_Hans said:

All 42 SPFL clubs asked to consider expansion to 48 member clubs - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57651255

 

Great. Just what we need - more ****in teams in the league 😖

[AndrewB]

4 minutes ago, Super_Hans said:

All 42 SPFL clubs asked to consider expansion to 48 member clubs - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57651255

 

Vote NO.  More wee clubs admitted without dead wood being relegated = NO.  No change to top league = NO.  Special treatment for OF colts = NO.

[Rogue Daddy]

It didn't pass the last time, I fail to see how it can pass this time... unless, of course, there are some 'crazy promises' made that we haven't/won't hear about.

[TheBigO]

35 minutes ago, Super_Hans said:

All 42 SPFL clubs asked to consider expansion to 48 member clubs - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57651255

 

I don't think increasing the senior setup is the way to go and think 2 larger leagues fed by regionals is way more sensible but it'll never happen cos seen as turkeys voting for Christmas.

 

However, it actually doesn't matter if the top league is staying at 12, what happens below it, in a way.

 

The important thing becomes voting rights and representation.  That needs sorted.  Either needs weighted or the top league needs to break away (again, I know, but last year showed that Forfar shouldn't be able to effect the top flight, frankly, totally different stratosphere, pressures, wants).  Basically clubs who are full time have much more duty of care than the part-timers and should have status to show that.  Perhaps that's the split rather than league - full time voting rights, part-time voting rights. 

[LarrysRightFoot]

A genuine question - what is the benefit of smaller teams joining national leagues? 
 

I guess they get more money and exposure but surely costs increase - such as travelling all over the country. Also there is less local games in lot of cases which you would think leads to lower crowds. 
 

Surely 2 national leagues with a regional pyramid below makes sense. 

[davemclaren]

10 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

I don't think increasing the senior setup is the way to go and think 2 larger leagues fed by regionals is way more sensible but it'll never happen cos seen as turkeys voting for Christmas.

 

However, it actually doesn't matter if the top league is staying at 12, what happens below it, in a way.

 

The important thing becomes voting rights and representation.  That needs sorted.  Either needs weighted or the top league needs to break away (again, I know, but last year showed that Forfar shouldn't be able to effect the top flight, frankly, totally different stratosphere, pressures, wants).  Basically clubs who are full time have much more duty of care than the part-timers and should have status to show that.  Perhaps that's the split rather than league - full time voting rights, part-time voting rights. 

All SPFl clubs get a share of the Sky money. Adding new clubs may mean it’s spread even thinner. 

[SuperstarSteve]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

All SPFl clubs get a share of the Sky money. Adding new clubs may mean it’s spread even thinner. 

Celtic and rangers are paying a few hundred k each for 5 years. Am sure they will earn more than they will lose.

As another poster said this is inevitable, 3 years guaranteed to not drop out the set up is something that I think will play a big part in these teams agreeing to this, time will tell I suppose. 
 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, SuperstarSteve said:

Celtic and rangers are paying a few hundred k each for 5 years. Am sure they will earn more than they will lose.

As another poster said this is inevitable, 3 years guaranteed to not drop out the set up is something that I think will play a big part in these teams agreeing to this, time will tell I suppose. 
 

I agree that the lower league clubs will want it as a lot are scared of being replaced by ambitious clubs from outwith the SPFL. 

[Deevers]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I agree that the lower league clubs will want it as a lot are scared of being replaced by ambitious clubs from outwith the SPFL. 

Yep, all those with absolutely no ambitions.   The lowest Division is littered with these clubs. Tinkering at the edges of things to suite the agenda of the Old Firm. I hope this is flushed away.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[davemclaren]

9 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Farcical.

 

No temporary reconstruction to ensure nobody (us, PT, Falkirk, Stranraer) are harmed due to CV19, but let's push an agenda which is designed purely to help the two clubs who need the least help, while simultaneously giving the deadwood a stay of execution.

 

Scottish football is, will be and has always been absolutely corrupt to the core.

Nailed it there. 

[Nookie Bear]

What is the benefit of inviting the likes of Inverurie Loco Works and BSC Glasgow to join the leage set up?

[Rogue Daddy]

3 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Farcical.

 

No temporary reconstruction to ensure nobody (us, PT, Falkirk, Stranraer) are harmed due to CV19, but let's push an agenda which is designed purely to help the two clubs who need the least help, while simultaneously giving the deadwood a stay of execution.

 

Scottish football is, will be and has always been absolutely corrupt to the core.

Yip, about sums it up!

 

Nothing will change until non ugly chairmen grow a set and demand a full-blown revamp of the current structure and governing boards.... which would probably require a break-away being led by us, the sheep, the hobos and a couple of others (scumdee utd & motherwell probably). Until their owners can see beyond a few extra £100k (when the OF come to town), it'll be the same old, same old.

[No longer active]

Unfortunately the only reconstruction that CAN happen is the one that the OF want - all these proposals are there to build their bank balances more and more.

 

A proposal that I would like to see would be to have 2 x 18 or 20  team leagues only akin to the Premier and Championship in England, and a pyramid below.

If that means NO OF, then so be it (if that was necessary) and a more equal share of any money; that equal share might encourage the lower teams to support something new.

 

Unfortunately a league without the OF would not be attractive to the likes of Sky, or whoever and therefore not really a player unless Scottish football becomes all about sporting integrity rather than money, money, money !

 

That said the BBC in Scotland were interested in showing Championship football on a Friday night - that had no OF involvement so perhaps this is not so far fetched an idea.

[ShedBoy]

The SPFL aren't wired up right. This ridiculous scenario only benefits Brechin and The Arse Cheeks. The money will be further diluted also. Preposterous suggestion. Get it TF 

[Baldwigforjack]

2 hours ago, Barack said:

This wouldn't benefit Brechin, per chance, would it...? 🤔

Not unless they win the Highland League within the next 2 seasons, would then be automatically promoted without having to face the LL champs then club 42 in the play-offs.

[Baldwigforjack]

7 minutes ago, ShedBoy said:

The SPFL aren't wired up right. This ridiculous scenario only benefits Brechin and The Arse Cheeks. The money will be further diluted also. Preposterous suggestion. Get it TF 

It doesn't benefit Brechin  yet, they're still going to the HL.

[Baldwigforjack]

59 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

What is the benefit of inviting the likes of Inverurie Loco Works and BSC Glasgow to join the leage set up?

It'll be a while until BSC Glasgow are anywhere near the spfl,they're in the WOS Development Division. However the club formerly known as BSC Glasgow may win the LL this season.

[ShedBoy]

2 minutes ago, Baldwigforjack said:

It doesn't benefit Brechin  yet, they're still going to the HL.

Make no mistake, those at the top table are trying to look after their recently retired friend. Absolutely reeking this is.

[Baldwigforjack]

Just now, ShedBoy said:

Make no mistake, those at the top table are trying to look after their recently retired friend. Absolutely reeking this is.

They are already an ex-spfl side, so no voting for them.

[Nookie Bear]

3 minutes ago, Baldwigforjack said:

It'll be a while until BSC Glasgow are anywhere near the spfl,they're in the WOS Development Division. However the club formerly known as BSC Glasgow may win the LL this season.

 

Absolutely lost already 😄

 

A complete and utter Diddy Fest that adds **** all to the professional game.

 

Hope we call them out on it.

[Hungry hippo]

1 hour ago, SuperstarSteve said:

Celtic and rangers are paying a few hundred k each for 5 years. Am sure they will earn more than they will lose.

As another poster said this is inevitable, 3 years guaranteed to not drop out the set up is something that I think will play a big part in these teams agreeing to this, time will tell I suppose. 
 

 

Still can't see what will convince sufficient teams in the top 2 tiers to vote for it unless there is another incentive that's not been revealed.

[ShedBoy]

11 minutes ago, Baldwigforjack said:

They are already an ex-spfl side, so no voting for them.

The fact that the SPFL are even asking this question reeks. 

[Mysterion]

1 hour ago, George Cowie said:

That said the BBC in Scotland were interested in showing Championship football on a Friday night - that had no OF involvement so perhaps this is not so far fetched an idea.

 

Friday night football (followed by A View From The Terrace) would be a smart move to drive viewers to the BBC Scotland Channel. 👍

[OldGorgie]

A quick glance at the hierarchy of the various groups that run Scottish Football reveals a mixture of small minded local business men, few women, and no ethnic representation. Ex footballers are simply ignored. Incompetence seems to an asset 

[jambo-rocker]

Where's the concession for the OF? Colt teams gives them an advantage, so a concession shout being made would at least give a modicum of good faith. Give us an 18 team top flight, and let the diddies keep their 3 leagues of 10.

[Baldwigforjack]

48 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Absolutely lost already 😄

 

A complete and utter Diddy Fest that adds **** all to the professional game.

 

Hope we call them out on it.

A Little history

 

BSC Glasgow[LL side] were affiliated with Broomhill Sports Club in Glasgow. Broomhill acting as a youth/feeder club. BSCG were looking to gain their SFA License but had no suitable ground in Glasgow so moved to share with Alloa Athletic.

 This summer Broomhill Sports Club[still based in Glasgow] decided to sever all ties with BSCG and apply to enter their own senior side into the West of Scotland League, which was accepted[they will use the name BSC Glasgow].

 BSCG are currently in the process of changing their name[due to be made public this week] and now looking to move back to Glasgow.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Baldwigforjack
spelling mistakes

[Nookie Bear]

4 minutes ago, Baldwigforjack said:

A Little history

 

BSC Glasgow[LL side] were affiliated with Broomhill Sports Club in Glasgow. Broomhill acting as a youth/feeder club. BSCG were looking to gain their SFA License but had no suitable ground in Glasgow so moved to share with Alloa Athletic.

 This summer Broomhill Sports Club[still based in Glasgow] decided to severe all ties with BSCG and apply to enter their own senior side into the West of Scotland League, which was accepted[they will use the name BSC Glasgow].

 BSCG are currently in the process of changing their name[due to be made public this week] and now looking to move back to Glasgow.

 

Cheers for that 👍

[Baldwigforjack]

1 minute ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Cheers for that 👍

Forgot to add, along with East Kilbride Thistle it was those b$*$£$ds BSCG who were the two main clubs behind getting the OF colts into the LL.

[SuperstarSteve]

45 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

Still can't see what will convince sufficient teams in the top 2 tiers to vote for it unless there is another incentive that's not been revealed.

I assumed the top tier weren’t interested in a 16 team league.

 

This won’t really effect the money now will it? The lower leagues will be given money for 5 years and the top tier keep their 2 OF paydays. League 2 keep their place in the set up for a guaranteed 3 years.

 

Could be wrong as it’s pretty hard to keep on top of what clubs have said during these constant meetings/proposals  to get this pushed through.

[Saint Jambo]

1 hour ago, ShedBoy said:

The SPFL aren't wired up right. This ridiculous scenario only benefits Brechin and The Arse Cheeks. The money will be further diluted also. Preposterous suggestion. Get it TF 

 

Given that the colt teams will presumably not be eligible for prize money, there would only be a need to spread the money across four extra teams. Based on figures from a couple of years ago (https://spfl.co.uk/news/spfl-prize-pot-reaches-25m) teams at the bottom would need about £50k each, or £100k per old firm club. The sensible thing would be to require them to each pay a lump sum to the SPFL each year to cover that extra prize money. I wouldn't be surprised if instead they suggested taking it off 1st and 2nd place on the arrogant assumption that they'll always finish top 2.

 

Even though I think the financial barrier can be overcome, I'm still totally against the proposal. Like others, I'm just not clear why Premiership or Championship clubs would back it. I'd like to think it is an easy decision for Hearts. An easy PR win along the lines of 'given that just a year ago other clubs were committed to now not being the right time for even temporary reconstruction to avoid harming clubs unfairly, we know our fans could not stomach reconstruction now and so will be voting against this proposal'.

[Drumjambo]

4 hours ago, Super_Hans said:

All 42 SPFL clubs asked to consider expansion to 48 member clubs - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57651255

 

Perfect 3 x leagues of 16  and 2 relegated with play off 3rd bottom and 3rd 4th 5th play in semi /final playoff

 

Also pump the ridiculous split and  play twice a season what everyone wants

 

Going forward more cash for clubs will be earned from europe and the cheeks already have no room for replays etc so less league games will become a necessity at some point ( I'm surprised this isn't part of their plan anyway)

 

 

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, Baldwigforjack said:

Forgot to add, along with East Kilbride Thistle it was those b$*$£$ds BSCG who were the two main clubs behind getting the OF colts into the LL.

Your familiarity with the two versions of BSC doesn't extend to East Kilbride.  East Kilbride Thisle is the former West Region junior club, which is now a member of the WOSFL.  It is East Kilbride FC that is the member of the LL.

[martoon]

An independent top flight of 18 full time professional clubs with 3/4 regionalised 2nd tiers.

 

Bottom 3/4 of the top flight relegated with the 3/4 champions replacing them subject to being full time, no plastic pitch and all seated stadium (no capacity restrictions, though).

 

No splits, play offs or similar Mickey Mouse crap. 

[Rogue Daddy]

3 minutes ago, martoon said:

An independent top flight of 18 full time professional clubs with 3/4 regionalised 2nd tiers.

 

Bottom 3/4 of the top flight relegated with the 3/4 champions replacing them subject to being full time, no plastic pitch and all seated stadium (no capacity restrictions, though).

 

No splits, play offs or similar Mickey Mouse crap. 

But what about all the meaningless games we'll be left with? A top tier of 18/20 clearly doesn't work in England, Italy, Germany, Spain, France...... so it's not good enough for us.

🙄

[martoon]

16 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

But what about all the meaningless games we'll be left with? A top tier of 18/20 clearly doesn't work in England, Italy, Germany, Spain, France...... so it's not good enough for us.

🙄

 

Aye.

 

Who needs that when you can have a league like the Austrians, Swiss etc with daft splits and play offs.

 

England, Spain, Italy...pfft. There is nothing to learn from them.

[Baldwigforjack]

32 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Your familiarity with the two versions of BSC doesn't extend to East Kilbride.  East Kilbride Thisle is the former West Region junior club, which is now a member of the WOSFL.  It is East Kilbride FC that is the member of the LL.

Apologies

[Rogue Daddy]

15 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Aye.

 

Who needs that when you can have a league like the Austrians, Swiss etc with daft splits and play offs.

 

England, Spain, Italy...pfft. There is nothing to learn from them.

Cannae believe how backward our country is when it comes to running football. Totally agreed with your post BTW.

[martoon]

17 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Cannae believe how backward our country is when it comes to running football. Totally agreed with your post BTW.

 

Depressing isn't it?

[OTT]

Would like Hearts to make a statement vetoing it and asking why only the OF have been invited to field a colt team. Maybe make some passing reference to preferential treatment and a reminder to the authorities there are more than 2 clubs in Scotland. 

[Ron Burgundy]

15 minutes ago, OTT said:

Would like Hearts to make a statement vetoing it and asking why only the OF have been invited to field a colt team. Maybe make some passing reference to preferential treatment and a reminder to the authorities there are more than 2 clubs in Scotland. 

Won't happen under this current watch sadly.

[Mysterion]

19 minutes ago, OTT said:

Would like Hearts to make a statement vetoing it and asking why only the OF have been invited to field a colt team. Maybe make some passing reference to preferential treatment and a reminder to the authorities there are more than 2 clubs in Scotland. 

 

This has been covered before IMO. 

 

It's less about being invited and more about the club not showing any intention to run a Colts team. 

Can't remember when it was mentioned - but pre 2020 Ann Budge did comment on it, there appeared to be no incentive to run/invest in a colts team but it would be considered. 

 

In 2020 the club position moved to support the OF Colts team in the 2nd division as part of the reconstruction plans. Any proposal now would likely be supported (since the club thought it was fine in 2020) or slowly walked back IMO. 

 

 

 

[Libertarian]

23 hours ago, martoon said:

An independent top flight of 18 full time professional clubs with 3/4 regionalised 2nd tiers.

 

Bottom 3/4 of the top flight relegated with the 3/4 champions replacing them subject to being full time, no plastic pitch and all seated stadium (no capacity restrictions, though).

 

No splits, play offs or similar Mickey Mouse crap. 

Nearly every football fan who actually goes to the games would agree with the above. However failing extending the league to 18 then the premiership needs to be increased to at least 14 playing one another twice and then an 8/6 split with each club playing one another twice again in the split.

[upgotheheads]

1 hour ago, Libertarian said:

Nearly every football fan who actually goes to the games would agree with the above. However failing extending the league to 18 then the premiership needs to be increased to at least 14 playing one another twice and then an 8/6 split with each club playing one another twice again in the split.

Anyone who saw the 18 team league as previously structured would not want to go back to that, but with 4 teams relegated it might work. A 14 team League with a 6/8 split could be interesting and preferable imo.

Grass pitches should be compulsory in the top league, which might rule out an 18 team League. 

[Jambo-Fox]

48 clubs in the SPFL is probably 12 to 16 clubs too many!

How anybody thinks 48 clubs would be compatible within one organisation sharing common goals & ambitions in a country the size of Scotland is hard to understand!

 

It would be easy to envisage that the full time clubs will breakaway and form a new league at some point. Or if not that the top clubs will leave to join other leagues or form new leagues with similar clubs from other countries.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Jambo-Fox