Reconstruction

[WageThief]

3 minutes ago, S Form said:

As I said, the title play off operates in rugby and no one there seems to regard it as a joke.

 

I believe there’s no chance that the four OF games a season will be abandoned. However, it may be that, eventually, there will be discussion on how to make the title more ‘competitive’ and the play off is one idea that might be accepted.

 

Hopefully not.  Any victories in that manner would be hollow at best, unless you finished 1st.  

 

I've no interest in Rugby but I'd consider the best team to be whoever won the league.  Not the play off that came after.

 

We could introduce a handicap system like golf that was based on the previous season. Force the title winner to play Joel Perreira in goal the next season.  2nd place has to play Jack Hamilton, and so on.

[martoon]

6 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

Needs to happen.

 

I'm 100% for a larger league and league system that doesn't have an odd number of games before deciding anything.

 

A league should be an equal number of games home and away, 2 or 4.

 

3 cannot be equal and is complete nonsense.

 

Any league that has an unequal number of games played home and away over a season before anything is decided  is mickey mouse beyond belief.

 

****ing arseholes.

worst thing that happened to our league.

 

Keep the 44 games if you need 4 OF games, 33 then a split is a ****ing joke.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My thoughts exactly, Tosh.

 

Annoyed me 20+ years ago when the English termed Scottish football as Mickey Mouse but how right they were and are.

 

A league must  be absolutely equal. The same teams, randomly playing each other the same amount of times, home and away. A set programme of fixtures from first day to last. That's why the league winners are declared "champions" and not knockout cup winners.

 

Anything else is a farce. 

 

The initial, unequal, 33 games, the end of season fixtures compiled, deliberately, to suit the OF and other clubs often having an 18-20 home and away split to make sure the OF never do is what makes Scottish football what it is:

 

A sick joke.

[Super_Hans]

1 minute ago, martoon said:

 

My thoughts exactly, Tosh.

 

Annoyed me 20+ years ago when the English termed Scottish football as Mickey Mouse but how right they were and are.

 

A league must  be absolutely equal. The same teams, randomly playing each other the same amount of times, home and away. A set programme of fixtures from first day to last. That's why the league winners are declared "champions" and not knockout cup winners.

 

Anything else is a farce. 

 

The initial, unequal, 33 games, the end of season fixtures compiled, deliberately, to suit the OF and other clubs often having an 18-20 home and away split to make sure the OF never do is what makes Scottish football what it is:

 

A sick joke.

There's a few leagues around who have a split. Greece, Denmark, Austria, Slovakia, Israel. They all split after two rounds of fixtures to take away that an unequal possibility. I think for the size of country I'd prefer to keep the split but rejig it with the split after two rounds and possibly up to 14 teams (6/8).

 

However, I'm still bitter after last summer so I'd expect Hearts to ram any reconstruction talks straight up the SPFL's farter.

[JDK2020]

2 hours ago, henryheart said:

 

It is for this reason, and this reason alone, as a club Hearts should agitate and annoy. The chance was there last year, but there was opposition to change for two reasons - self preservation and to deliberately and maliciously kick us in the teeth. We should act only in our self interest, and if that means going against the crowd, obstructing, indeed doing anything to make our point loud and clear, then so be it. There are clubs out there who are our enemies. We must make it quite clear that this remains the case, both on and off the field.  

 

Which ones do you reckon?

[martoon]

16 club top league for me and all must be full time.

 

Four down, which means few, if any, meaningless mid table games, and four up from a 16 club Championship below. Cut throat, perhaps, but 12 clubs would not be relegated compared to the current 10, possibly 11, that survive now. 

 

Actual, regionalised League Cup groups. For instance: 

 

Celtic, Rangers, Partick, Queens Park.

 

Hearts, Hibs, Livi...

 

Dundee, Dundee Utd, St Johnstone...

 

...which would generate 2 extra derby games all over the country and the entire competition running from August to Christmas. As many of the ties as possible being played on weekend's, which a reduced 30 game league would probably accommodate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[martoon]

24 minutes ago, Super_Hans said:

There's a few leagues around who have a split. Greece, Denmark, Austria, Slovakia, Israel. They all split after two rounds of fixtures to take away that an unequal possibility. I think for the size of country I'd prefer to keep the split but rejig it with the split after two rounds and possibly up to 14 teams (6/8).

 

However, I'm still bitter after last summer so I'd expect Hearts to ram any reconstruction talks straight up the SPFL's farter.

 

That would make the initial part of the league fairer, SH, but the split thing really doesn't appeal to me at all. 

 

Indeed, I believe, the original SPL proposition 20+ years ago was along those lines. Play each other twice (22 games), split, then each half playing each other twice again (10 games=32).

 

Still too much of a dugs dinner for my liking, though. 😊

 

Completely agree about your last paragraph. I'm a vindictive bugger, football wise, and I want my pound of flesh. Someone must suffer. 👹

Edited April 11, 2021 by martoon

[jambonian]

I'm for 14 teams top League. That's 26 games and then include the League Cup within/throughout the season instead of cramming the sections in at the start of the season when no-one's match sharp as yet. So you'd play a couple of League games then the following week you'd play your first League Cup game then back to League etc etc. Not only would teams benefit fitness-wise the games would be competitive. Add those games throughout the season and when the Scottish Cup comes around, make the semi-finals two-legged instead of a one-off and possible penalties. The Scottish Cup games could carry over away goals rule to encourage attacking football. Adding all the games up would cover any loss of reduced League games

[dtgj]

50 minutes ago, WageThief said:

 

Fair enough re second halves.  My point was more that we should be prepared to live with pointless games.  It's inevitable and part of other leagues.  I'd rather have a boring mid-table finish than play Hamilton 4 times a season.

 

But say we are 3 points clear at the top with 5 games to play.  Do you want us to play Killie, Ross County, Hamilton, Livi, and St Johnstone, or do you want the league to split so we can play the OF, Hibs, Aberdeen, and whoever is 6th?

Appreciate that the answer to your question depends on your perspective. If I was voting as a Hearts fan I'd prefer to be playing teams with nothing else to play for. 

 

But if I am looking at it from the SPFL perspective and trying to get an exciting league with which I can attract sponsors and money into the game then I'd want as many blockbuster games as possible. 

 

Ultimately, I think this proves that the running of the league shouldn't be done by anyone affiliated with the clubs. It should be a separate and independent body that identifies the best possibilities and implements them. 

[martoon]

5 minutes ago, dtgj said:

 

Ultimately, I think this proves that the running of the league shouldn't be done by anyone affiliated with the clubs. It should be a separate and independent body that identifies the best possibilities and implements them. 

 

Now there's a good idea. 

Edited April 11, 2021 by martoon

[Locky]

Still all for it. Several leagues across Europe of a similar stature haven't been afraid to reconstruct things on more than one occasion in recent years. Look at Austria, Belgium and Denmark for example.

 

We're in an era where Scottish football is back on the map. Time for the authorities to try keep it there.

[whyskey]

1 hour ago, S Form said:

I tend to agree. The one change that could be made is a play off for the title with the top four involved as happens in rugby. With the vast disparity in resources I think that’s the only chance we’d ever have of having a non-OF champion.

have said it for years 12 team league

after three rounds giving 33 games 

split into three groups of four

top four, middle four and bottom four

all previous points gained are just to get you into one of the groups

all groups start on zero points 

top group play for the title and some European places

middle group plays for a Europa place

bottom place play to avoid relegation 

giving a meanable end to the season

that's my tuppence worth

[Rudy T]

Unless reconstruction involves the OF playing 4 times a season and the sympathisers get their 3/4 visits from them it’ll never happen.

[Hagar the Horrible]

I hope clubs still die. But stuff the OF. We should look to go to the EPL. So a year ago we had the chance to do the right thing. I would wait until brechin get punted then reconstruct for the season after next just in case Robbie is still in charge 

[henryheart]

1 hour ago, JDK2020 said:

 

Which ones do you reckon?

 

Any club that voted against the reconstruction plans last summer. They could have voted for a no detriment plan, even short term, but opted not to. We should not let them forget.

[martoon]

1 minute ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

I hope clubs still die. But stuff the OF. We should look to go to the EPL. So a year ago we had the chance to do the right thing. I would wait until brechin get punted then reconstruct for the season after next just in case Robbie is still in charge 

 

A man with a plan and the gift of foresight. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 hours ago, 3fingersreid said:

Correct , I mean why should Scottish football improve to the detriment of they two ****ers 😡

 

Indeed.

People should know by now that if it doesn't benefit the bigot twins, it ain't happening.

 

[Pans Jambo]

12 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Two leagues of 10. Meaningful games through the whole season. Play off for last position. 

Thats utter shite

[Fraggle]

4 hours ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Scotland should have 1 professional league of 18 teams, 1 semi pro league below of 12 teams. Promoted team required to turn pro. 
 

Below that level, non league. With 0

funding from the league. 

Change is needed to shake it up. And clubs should only play each other twice a season. It’s gone stale. 

Kinda where I am with it. The fact F/T clubs are dictated to by P/T diddies is a total joke, but one that could only ever exist to this extent in the puddle that is Scottish Football. 

 

Though there is a large part of me wants to be as petty as feck and to cause as much annoyance as possible to the whole thing, but then that would potentially cause issues for ICT, Partick and other clubs that voted with us last year. 

[Byyy The Light]

5 hours ago, hmfc_steve said:

Agreed ... Home and away only .... Let the OF play each other home and away for the OF cup if 4 OF games are reqd

Spot on.

[Bazzas right boot]

3 hours ago, Super_Hans said:

There's a few leagues around who have a split. Greece, Denmark, Austria, Slovakia, Israel. They all split after two rounds of fixtures to take away that an unequal possibility. I think for the size of country I'd prefer to keep the split but rejig it with the split after two rounds and possibly up to 14 teams (6/8).

 

However, I'm still bitter after last summer so I'd expect Hearts to ram any reconstruction talks straight up the SPFL's farter.

 

 

Yeah, split after 2 rounds is OK. 

3 is a joke. 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

3 hours ago, martoon said:

 

My thoughts exactly, Tosh.

 

Annoyed me 20+ years ago when the English termed Scottish football as Mickey Mouse but how right they were and are.

 

A league must  be absolutely equal. The same teams, randomly playing each other the same amount of times, home and away. A set programme of fixtures from first day to last. That's why the league winners are declared "champions" and not knockout cup winners.

 

Anything else is a farce. 

 

The initial, unequal, 33 games, the end of season fixtures compiled, deliberately, to suit the OF and other clubs often having an 18-20 home and away split to make sure the OF never do is what makes Scottish football what it is:

 

A sick joke.

 

100%

[Bazzas right boot]

13 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Two leagues of 10. Meaningful games through the whole season. Play off for last position. 

 

 

That's the only suggestions that would make it worse than it currently is. 

 

Congratulations on coming up with an even shittier idea than the SFA, I never thought that was possible Tbh. 😂

 

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

5 hours ago, Ted Maul said:

Totally agree with this. Sporting integrity goes out the window in our current set up, not very fair to ask clubs to potentially play 3 away games against nearest rivals.

 

i would prefer a 16 team top league, the uglies can have their split here too. A clean split to half the league after 30 games then home and away games post split for a 44 game season.

 

 

Also works, any split hs to be equal. 

 

I'm not a fan of the split, but I'd it has to happen it must be after equal games. 

Anything else is utter muckwy mouse and in a serious way unfair. 

 

A league should mean everyone played the same fixtures. 

It's the basis of a league system 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

5 hours ago, hmfc_steve said:

Agreed ... Home and away only .... Let the OF play each other home and away for the OF cup if 4 OF games are reqd

 

 

Yip. 

 

Has to be equal. 

 

[MCW1976]

Reconstruction is essential.

[MCW1976]

10 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

Needs to happen.

 

I'm 100% for a larger league and league system that doesn't have an odd number of games before deciding anything.

 

A league should be an equal number of games home and away, 2 or 4.

 

3 cannot be equal and is complete nonsense.

 

Any league that has an unequal number of games played home and away over a season before anything is decided  is mickey mouse beyond belief.

 

****ing arseholes.

worst thing that happened to our league.

 

Keep the 44 games if you need 4 OF games, 33 then a split is a ****ing joke.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fully agree. It’s embarrassing.

[Lone Striker]

Some interesting suggestions.   Just my opinion here, but reconstruction wouldn't achieve much so long as the SPFL allow Sky/BT to show live matches. It just panders to the Bigots, giving them useful millions to help keep their stranglehold. The SFA/SPFL continue to see them as the geese who lay the golden eggs.  

 

For most Premiership clubs, I'd guess the majority of fans pay for a ST up front, so it's their choice on whether to  turn up for a meaningless game  - but it doesn't hit the finances  of the club much if they don't attend.

 

What is the latest on the OF Colts idea ? Is it still just a kite-flying exercise, or is it a serious proposal to be voted on ? Or have I totally missed a confirmation that its actually happening ?  Presumably that would  need some kind of reconstruction if it goes ahead ?

 

Anything that makes life difficult for tinpots like Alloa is fine by me though 👍

 

 

[Baldwigforjack]

All for reconstruction, especially automatic relegation for the bottom two teams in league two. 

[Jambof3tornado]

Not against it but would need to know exactly who would benefit and lose out before casting a vote!

 

**** the bad guys.

[upgotheheads]

13 hours ago, Byyy The Light said:

16 and 12

 

12 & 12 .                                                                                                               =22

split at 26 games and go to 3 x 8                                                                      =14

3 leagues of 8 playing each other twice                                                           =36 games in total

                                                                                                                              

 

 

After the split, Top teams playing for Europe, Middle 8 playing to start in top league following season. 

bottom 8 playing to remain in 24 team structure with relegation and playoffs for bottom two (or possibly four)

 

Beneath the top 24 team structure, a pyramid system involving Highland and Lowland League and junior teams if they want to join, but playing on a two or maybe three region basis, North, Central and South or North and South. Playoffs to decide who gets to challenge the relegated 2 (or four)

[Guest]

Bigger league and 2pts for a win please

 

Will never happen though

[OTT]

I’d like to see two fully professional leagues. Everything below that would be the non-professional clubs. 
 

Say a league of 16 & 18 with no demotion from the 2nd league. Maybe a 3rd premier non-pro league with the rest being regional to compensate for lack of funds (Albion rovers voting against Brora because they didn’t want to travel). Colt teams included within those leagues to bulk out numbers and offer more freedom to league structure. 
 

pro teams vote on issues only effecting top two leagues, non-pro likewise in non-pro league 

[jr ewing]

5 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Thats utter shite

Take that as a no then?

[jr ewing]

4 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

That's the only suggestions that would make it worse than it currently is. 

 

Congratulations on coming up with an even shittier idea than the SFA, I never thought that was possible Tbh. 😂

 

 

 

 

Ask Henry.

[upgotheheads]

28 minutes ago, OTT said:

I’d like to see two fully professional leagues. Everything below that would be the non-professional clubs. 
 

Say a league of 16 & 18 with no demotion from the 2nd league. Maybe a 3rd premier non-pro league with the rest being regional to compensate for lack of funds (Albion rovers voting against Brora because they didn’t want to travel). Colt teams included within those leagues to bulk out numbers and offer more freedom to league structure. 
 

pro teams vote on issues only effecting top two leagues, non-pro likewise in non-pro league 

 

We don't have 34 clubs able to sustain full time professional football, at the moment maybe 22. under my suggestion of 24 SPL clubs  maybe 4 would have part-time players along with some full-time pros.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

If it didn't happen during a pandemic when clubs could go under if reconstruction doesn't happen, it'll never happen. Who's going to promote it? A club in trouble like we were that previously voted against it? The hypocrisy would be off the charts.

[sauchiejambo]

I recall when the original Premier League was set up from he old 1st Division, the main driver was the "smaller" clubs who needed the cash injection of having the old firm twice a season, and presumably to a lesser extent us hibs and aberdeen. I think its improbable that those same clubs would agree to anything which reduces their cash flow unfortunately. 

I agree there are too many professional clubs vying for crowds, tv money etc. But even if they were somehow sent to a lower strata or even went to the wall, that would only result in a loss if those supporters from football, I suspect most of them would not suddenly start watching the nearest "big" team.

[Drumjambo]

18 hours ago, gregzy2k7 said:

I would still like to see a 16 team league top flight, with 30 games a season.

Will never happen though, they would probably put it down to 10 to keep their 4 old firm games.

 

Given the importance of and money attached,  to European football  a shorter season would be a great idea. Id love to see a 16 teamer - It has even home and away and would give a decent hearts aberdeen or hibs team a crack at the uglies - who knows anybody might have a chance!! - 

 

If this is ever considered,  so should be removing refereeing from the SFA and setting up a professional body with Refs paid to ref only and get rid of this mickey mouse plethora of Glasgow refs supporting one or other of the gruesome twosome or just not wanting their widows put in by knuckle draggers. (how many refs are west coast based??)

 

National stadium and sporting excellence centre (for all sports) at Bannockburn too please and shut the hovel hamdump!

 

I Know Im dreaming !!

[Drumjambo]

13 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

And that's the reason it won't happen, they don't want anybody to compete with the bigot brothers, plus there is no way Sky etc will go for any less than 4 bigot fests a season.

 

 

To be fair its the worst TV deal in europe Its time to stop the tail wagging the dog.  If this season proves anything its that without supporters this game is bollocks _ it will take a German fans type effort,  working together to change it nut it could be done 

 

The voting 11-1 voting thing needs launching if you want to change the game for the better

[Jamhammer]

15 hours ago, hmfc_steve said:

Agreed ... Home and away only .... Let the OF play each other home and away for the OF cup if 4 OF games are reqd

Just let them play each other every week and let the rest of us bash on

[Drumjambo]

Just now, Jamhammer said:

Just let them play each other every week and let the rest of us bash on

 

This works too

[DETTY29]

6 minutes ago, Jamhammer said:

Just let them play each other every week and let the rest of us bash on

Or, let them play every week, all on the TV.  They get 33% of TV money.

 

The rest of us bash on with 1 game a week live, sharing the remainder of TV money.

 

The winners of each league has a 2 game play off for the overall championship.

 

If the loser of the 'Championship' tie is 'the rest' candidate, it plays the other OF team to determine 2nd and 3rd as a one game play off.

 

 

[Gizmo]

Have any of the clubs in danger started bleating about reconstruction yet? That twat at Ross County seemed keen to park talk for just one season, knowing fine well they might need saving this term. 

[Doc Rob]

13 hours ago, martoon said:

16 club top league for me and all must be full time.

 

Four down, which means few, if any, meaningless mid table games, and four up from a 16 club Championship below. Cut throat, perhaps, but 12 clubs would not be relegated compared to the current 10, possibly 11, that survive now. 

 

Actual, regionalised League Cup groups. For instance: 

 

Celtic, Rangers, Partick, Queens Park.

 

Hearts, Hibs, Livi...

 

Dundee, Dundee Utd, St Johnstone...

 

...which would generate 2 extra derby games all over the country and the entire competition running from August to Christmas. As many of the ties as possible being played on weekend's, which a reduced 30 game league would probably accommodate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can’t possibly relegate 4 teams from a 16 team league. Even 3 would be excessive for a division that size. 2 automatic plus a playoff I could support.

[Pasquale for King]

It’s a bit like sacking Neilson, it only solves part of the problem, it needs changes from the top down. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Drumjambo said:

 

To be fair its the worst TV deal in europe Its time to stop the tail wagging the dog.  If this season proves anything its that without supporters this game is bollocks _ it will take a German fans type effort,  working together to change it nut it could be done 

 

The voting 11-1 voting thing needs launching if you want to change the game for the better

It needs an 11-1 vote to get rid of it 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️🙈?!?!

[Cruyff]

There has to be compromise for it to happen and I know folk don't like the idea of 4 OF games a season but it's also 4 derby matches for us too. Plus, The OF, Hibs and Aberdeen bring the biggest crowds to Tynie. 

 

Any talk of reconstruction will have to involve four OF matches, that's what the TV companies want, that's where there's money to be made and that is the reality. 

 

The compromise is, we all get a bigger league and the OF & Sky/BT get their 4 OF games. 

 

I think the two possibilities are, 

 

16 team league. Play each other home & away. That's 30 games. Split the league, top 8 / bottom 8, play home and away. That's 14 games. 44 games total. Too many games imo. 

 

14 team league. Play each other home & away. That's 26 games. Split the league, top 7 / bottom 7, play home and away, that's 12 games. 38 games total. 

 

Top league of 14 and a split is imo the only realistic way of getting a bigger league. 

 

I think what's more important though is having a 16 team professional championship division. That would make that league stronger and more competitive imo. 

 

I'd also add that every team in the top two divisions, (the 30 professional clubs) , should have grass pitches. None of this AstroTurf nonsense, it is ridiculous and completely unprofessional. 

Edited April 11, 2021 by Cruyff

[martoon]

2 hours ago, Doc Rob said:

You can’t possibly relegate 4 teams from a 16 team league. Even 3 would be excessive for a division that size. 2 automatic plus a playoff I could support.

 

That, too, would probably keep a 16 team league meaningful to the end.

 

Let's be honest, it's not going to happen, anyway.

 

I was just expressing how I'd set it up if I ruled the world. 😄

[brux]

Playing each other 4 times serves two purposes, clubs get old firm pay days and in return one of the old firm are guaranteed to win the league.

[allystrachan]

I’m all for reconstruction to a bigger league but it needs to be voted for before teams know their standings so they are not just voting to survive the chop if they are near the bottom. 
 

I’d even suggest there’s still a play off so the the team at the bottom can’t just sit there care free all season. Increase to 16, but if you finish bottom your playing the 5th team in the championship in a play off.