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Reconstruction


LarrysRightFoot

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1 hour ago, jr ewing said:

30 games are not enough. 

 

Might be in the future if European football expands.

 

Domestic leagues, if they continued, would have to be shortened if, say Liverpool, were playing c.25 games to win the CL as opposed to the current 13.

 

The 38 game EPL would have to be reduced.

 

Maybe not the same issue up here but it is possible that Celtic/Rangers would also play a similar amount to get quite far in the Europa League etc.

 

The days of Europe's elite playing just 8-13 CL games a season and 40-50 domestic are numbered, imo.

Edited by martoon
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9 hours ago, theo1874 said:

We need to learn from all the club statements regarding reconstruction last year, so I think that Hearts should release a statement that reads;

"Hearts are in favour of reconstruction, but feel the time is not right to discuss reconstruction"

 

👍

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8 hours ago, Tazio said:

St Johnstone give most of their ground to the OF

Kilmarnock give most of their ground to the OF

Motherwell built a big fancy new stand at their ground to increase capacity. It’s where the OF sit. 
Smaller teams in the cup give most of their grounds to the OF. 

 

A bit of theme here. These teams won’t vote to lose their golden goose of a few close to sell outs a year. 
 

 

There’s the problem with Scottish Football in a nutshell.

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davemclaren

Apparently reconstruction and Colts not happening. Hearts are one of the teams against it. 
 

Premiership clubs are set to reject plans for a revised 12-12-10-10 SPFL structure which would see the introduction of Old Firm colt teams in the bottom tier. (Daily Mail, print edition)

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16 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Apparently reconstruction and Colts not happening. Hearts are one of the teams against it. 
 

Premiership clubs are set to reject plans for a revised 12-12-10-10 SPFL structure which would see the introduction of Old Firm colt teams in the bottom tier. (Daily Mail, print edition)

 

Good, it offers no meaningful benefit for anyone other than the OF. 

 

If they want to do colts every team that wants to field a team should be invited to do so with everyone at the same level. I don't understand how basic fairness can't guide decision making. 

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50 minutes ago, cheetah said:

40 team league play each other once, reverse the fixtures the season after. 

😂😂😂

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36 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Apparently reconstruction and Colts not happening. Hearts are one of the teams against it. 
 

Premiership clubs are set to reject plans for a revised 12-12-10-10 SPFL structure which would see the introduction of Old Firm colt teams in the bottom tier. (Daily Mail, print edition)

 

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20 hours ago, Tazio said:

This all day long. As I posted earlier, Scotland has a smaller population than London but tries to have 4 senior leagues. 

True but based on geography we can support a league or two. If you include all the non league sides in London they could probably have 4 leagues too.

 

The number of clubs in the spfl should be reduced to two decent sized leagues of say 16. In the top league "all weather" pitches should be banned. However, there should be automatic promotion and relegation between League 2 (or whatever we call it) and the feeder leagues, Lowland,  Highland etc. This would encourage ambitious clubs to climb the ladder.

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Rogue Daddy
2 hours ago, Deevers said:

There’s the problem with Scottish Football in a nutshell.

You're bang on there! If you have to outnumber your own support with the OF knuckle-dragging away support... you shouldn't be anywhere near the top division calling yourself 'professional', as you obviously can't afford to be there.

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Hungry hippo
1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

Apparently reconstruction and Colts not happening. Hearts are one of the teams against it. 
 

Premiership clubs are set to reject plans for a revised 12-12-10-10 SPFL structure which would see the introduction of Old Firm colt teams in the bottom tier. (Daily Mail, print edition)

 

I'm not surprised. The voting structure means that everyone needs incentivised to change anything and there is nothing in it for the vast majority of the Premiership.

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Hammerofthehibs
On 11/04/2021 at 01:57, SomethingAboutObua said:

My opinion on it all has changed tbh, I used to be for everyone joining the pyramid under one body but now honestly I think its a terrible idea.

I want to see all 22-24 full time professional teams setting up a league system of their own, the whole one body to run everything if awful, it's just inappropriate to run a league set up the same way for teams like Hearts, Dundee United and Celtic as you do for Peterhead, Albion Rovers and Forfar. 

Get the full timers separated and fence off the top tiers to part time teams. Let teams reject promotion so they can compete at their level and let Falkirk and Partick that can run full time teams actually benefit full time Scottish football than wallowing in part time leagues.

If that was the vote, all for it. If its to just rejig the league set up, dont change it unless we're changing votes, prize money and only playing each of the OF twice a season.

 

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Jambo in Bathgate

The Colt plan has no benefit to Hearts or any other team outside the OF. It would allow the OF to sign even more promising youngsters and take the best from the other clubs. Unless all teams are allowed to run a colt team in lower leagues then this should be a non starter. We should also veto reconstruction on the grounds that no team in SPL help us when we needed help to maintain our status. 

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avhudtheteeshirt

We've got to get rid of the 4 games a season it gives the Old Firm to much of a lead!

Playing each other twice is fairer on all teams.

18 team top league would be ideal, with no split, this makes 36 game league with more breaks for Internationals and Europe!

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1 hour ago, avhudtheteeshirt said:

We've got to get rid of the 4 games a season it gives the Old Firm to much of a lead!

Playing each other twice is fairer on all teams.

18 team top league would be ideal, with no split, this makes 36 game league with more breaks for Internationals and Europe!

34 games. 

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1 hour ago, avhudtheteeshirt said:

We've got to get rid of the 4 games a season it gives the Old Firm to much of a lead!

Playing each other twice is fairer on all teams.

18 team top league would be ideal, with no split, this makes 36 game league with more breaks for Internationals and Europe!

 

All about the finances. 

The games don't make enough money to offset losing a potential OF game. 

 

It doesn't matter how many times fans/supporters keep saying this - there are too many clubs unwilling to change.

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This has been done to death on here and on many other football forums, but nothing will ever change unless it vastly suits the Glasgow Duo.

 

Football in Scotland is stale and boring.  Playing the same team 4 times every season is worse than the "boring" dead-rubber end of season fixtures that are brought up everytime we mention expanding the size of the league, and the argument of no-one caring about a 9th placed Dundee playing a 13th placed Arbroath toward the end of the year is a poor one.  With that logic, what's the point of any game that doesn't involve the people at the top?  We also already have this situation where a team in 7th place can't finish any higher due to the split.  No-one is to blame for teams being in that position other than themselves, and they should be aiming for the additional prize money that comes with finishing higher up in the league, something that also needs addressed and improved.

 

We should be looking toward a 16 team fully professional Premiership, a 16 team "semi-pro" Championship, and then possibly a 10/12/14/16 team Second Division, if we really want to keep those numbers toward the bottom end.  Invite the top 1 or 2 teams from Highland and Lowland League up, but absolutely no Colt Teams should be in the main set up.  They can enter teams in the appropriate Highland/Lowland League and work from there, but they do not need any added incentive to hoover up more young players from everyone.

 

16 teams playing each other home and away leads to a 30 game season.  This might end up being enough with expanded European Competition, but if not, we can still have a League Split into Top 8 and Bottom 8.  This would give another 7 games, which would be unbalanced in terms of home/away, but we have that problem anyway, and avoids a Split Situation of an odd number of teams, such as Top 7/Bottom 7, where someone would have a "free" week.  Stop marketing the whole ****ing thing around 4 Old Firm Games per season, as there are 40 other teams in the current league set up who also count.  Bottom 2 are automatically relegated, and 3rd bottom goes into the playoffs, just like we have now, but between 3rd,4th,5th and 6th in the Championship.  This will help spread the chance to play at the top level around a bit, and not have teams like Hamilton and Ross County hanging on for dear life every season.  If they go down, there are still 3 places on offer to go back up.  No plastic pitches above Championship level, and you have to be able to financially support yourself without relying on a couple of bumper crowds from the Old Firm.  If this means a rule of "professional only" for the Premiership, so be it.

 

Expand the League Cup if we really need to have a 4th Old Firm game, and bring a bit more relevance to it.  Teams are all too happy not taking the League Cup seriously, and it should still be a competition with a degree of respect shown to it.

 

Shake the whole thing up, even if we just have a trial for 2 seasons starting 2023/24 season giving teams a chance to prepare for life in the future.  Scottish football is the only football I particularly care about, and we should be looking to try and improve it for all supporters, not just the fans of the biggest 2 teams.

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SuperstarSteve
40 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

All about the finances. 

The games don't make enough money to offset losing a potential OF game. 

 

It doesn't matter how many times fans/supporters keep saying this - there are too many clubs unwilling to change.

Do Celtic and rangers get more TV money due to being on tele every week? Or is it split between all clubs evenly regardless? 
 

There is no contract that states 4 OF games must be shown on TV and all OF games televised so Your correct that it’s the club who want 4 OF. 
 

I’d love for all clubs to push forward with a plan to change how many Scottish players must be involved in first team games. Throughout all levels. That will develop our future stars but seems to Simple and the colt teams are what they want to push. 

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john thomas
3 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Good, it offers no meaningful benefit for anyone other than the OF. 

 

If they want to do colts every team that wants to field a team should be invited to do so with everyone at the same level. I don't understand how basic fairness can't guide decision making. 

If there was basic fairness surely this would never have been proposed ?

Says it all when it is even being discussed

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The only way teams in the premiership would vote this thru was if the number changed on voting figures as showm below and money distribution etc

 

 

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Footballfirst

My preference would be 16 team leagues throughout the pyramid.  For the top tier I'd implement a 4 x 4 split after the the second round of fixtures.  If the 4s play home and away, then you have a 36 game season, and almost certainly preserve the precious 4 x OF games.  

 

Two up/two down plus a playoff between 3rd bottom/3rd top in all leagues  (may have to be tweaked for the transition between national and regional leagues)

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38 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

My preference would be 16 team leagues throughout the pyramid.  For the top tier I'd implement a 4 x 4 split after the the second round of fixtures.  If the 4s play home and away, then you have a 36 game season, and almost certainly preserve the precious 4 x OF games.  

 

Two up/two down plus a playoff between 3rd bottom/3rd top in all leagues  (may have to be tweaked for the transition between national and regional leagues)

42 senior clubs is too many.   2 top divisions of 16 teams, the remainder of the pyramid on a regional basis with play-offs at end of season for promotion / relegation.

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just seen these stats on Twitter 
 

 

Brechin City have won 1 of their last 32 games going back to Dec 2019.

They've won 2 of their last 34 home games going back to Jan 2019

They've lost 100 of 140 games since the start of 2017/18, winning just 16.

I think Brora and Kelty are entitled to have a shot at them?

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weekend offender

British league's for me, dont care what Div we were put in, it would be better than St midden 4/5 times a season

 

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queensferryjambo
21 hours ago, Weebroon98 said:

just seen these stats on Twitter 
 

 

Brechin City have won 1 of their last 32 games going back to Dec 2019.

They've won 2 of their last 34 home games going back to Jan 2019

They've lost 100 of 140 games since the start of 2017/18, winning just 16.

I think Brora and Kelty are entitled to absolutely ****ing smash them?

 

FTFY mate :) 

 

Hope you aren't enjoying all that sunshine too much.

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  • 2 months later...
Hungry hippo

Can't see it getting the required support from the top 2 leagues unless the Old Firm offer something significant in return.

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Footballfirst
5 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

It’s back…

 

 

So the OF B Teams are seeking promotion from the LL regardless of where they finish, despite assurances that they wouldn't be eligible.

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5 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

It’s back…

 

 


I would hope we would vote against any league construction for the next couple of years at least. 

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SectionDJambo

They'll try to tart it up as being essential for the development of Scotland players of the future, in light of our recent failure to show much at the Euros.

Reconstruction is probably the way forward to enable young players to develop, but by increasing the top league club number to 16 to take away the threat of relegation from clubs, to encourage playing those young players regularly. That won't happen because too many clubs want the old firm coin 3 or 4 times a season instead of 2.

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Trying to be optimistic here but could 16 team top flight be back on the cards. Surely clubs have now survived without the OF pound due to the pandemic and moved toward reliance on their own fanbase. This should lead to the greedy chairman wanting to put a better product on in general. Maybe to much wishful thinking.

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Hungry hippo
12 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

So the OF B Teams are seeking promotion from the LL regardless of where they finish, despite assurances that they wouldn't be eligible.

 

Despite, as always, making a valid point I think you might be getting lured into the Old Firm's trap.

 

By requesting automatic entry to League 2 everyone else could state that the B teams at least need to earn entry and I suspect the Old Firm would be delighted to have the offer of standard promotion available.

Edited by Hungry hippo
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jamboinglasgow

As always in this, if its just a bigger League 2 with old firm colts in it then it has been done purely to benefit the old firm. There is a desire among fans and players to reconstruct the leagues for bigger sized leagues but fewer in number but instead we get something designed to only benefit a few.

Edited by jamboinglasgow
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Footballfirst
12 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

Despite, as always, making a valid point I think you might be getting lured into the Old Firm's trap.

 

By requesting automatic entry to League 2 everyone else could state that the B teams at least need to earn entry and I suspect the Old Firm would be delighted to have the offer of standard promotion available.

It was never a trap, but this season in the LL was a holding position until they were able to get what they want.

 

We will have to wait and see what form the reconstruction takes.  If the LL & HL are disadvantaged by the proposal then George Fraser will face a mutiny from the LL clubs. 

 

I don't have a problem in principal with reconstruction as long as it enables fluidity of movement up and down from the pyramid leagues.  If it involves extending L2 to say 16 teams, initially including the OF B teams, and the LL & HL champions then I would reluctantly accept it, just as long as automatic promotion/relegation is part of the solution.  

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Nookie Bear
38 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

It’s back…

 

 


Well nobody saw THAT coming 🙄

 

Here comes the move to keep a foothold in the Scottish game whilst the senior old firm clubs whore themselves to a European league. 
 

And shame on any club owner who sells the future of the Scottish game for a few quid from OF away fans. 

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34 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

They'll try to tart it up as being essential for the development of Scotland players of the future, in light of our recent failure to show much at the Euros.

Reconstruction is probably the way forward to enable young players to develop, but by increasing the top league club number to 16 to take away the threat of relegation from clubs, to encourage playing those young players regularly. That won't happen because too many clubs want the old firm coin 3 or 4 times a season instead of 2.


They're not even bothering with that, unless this Scunthorpe laddie hasa Scottish granny. It's a massive pisstake by the OF

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/celtic-dawson-scunthorpe-united-transfer-5545457

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7 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

It was never a trap, but this season in the LL was a holding position until they were able to get what they want.

 

We will have to wait and see what form the reconstruction takes.  If the LL & HL are disadvantaged by the proposal then George Fraser will face a mutiny from the LL clubs. 

 

I don't have a problem in principal with reconstruction as long as it enables fluidity of movement up and down from the pyramid leagues.  If it involves extending L2 to say 16 teams, initially including the OF B teams, and the LL & HL champions then I would reluctantly accept it, just as long as automatic promotion/relegation is part of the solution.  

I think this will be the plan. Thought they might have waited for season to start first. Devil will be in the detail

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SuperstarSteve

Can see a lot of folk giving up on their clubs and Scottish football as a whole if this gets passed. 
I know a few who didn’t renew due to them getting a place in the pyramid. 

Some don’t care about bias and favouritism obviously and some don’t even consider it bias but a benefit to Scottish football. Alot of people do care though and the shitshow that Scottish football has became is very boring, very bias and very predictable.
 

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4 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

The details 

 

 

 

Years ago 38 clubs was too many for Scotland but the numbers have increased, now to talk of increasing to 48 is just ridiculous.

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Footballfirst
6 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

The details 

 

 

Is that to allow Brechin a couple of attempts at getting back into the SPFL?

 

I can't see such a proposal getting much traction if the financial distribution cuts the cash to clubs in order to fund the additional six in the new set up.

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Does that mean old firm colts are promoted this season followed by automatic promotion next year for the highland and lowland champions 

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Guest ToqueJambo

I thought reconstructing during a pandemic was "not the time"?

 

At least that was the rationale a year or so ago with clubs in real danger if it didn't happen. Now it's the time apparently, with no-one in danger. Why could that be? Who's driving it? Ridiculous.

Edited by ToqueJambo
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Hungry hippo
1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

It was never a trap, but this season in the LL was a holding position until they were able to get what they want.

 

We will have to wait and see what form the reconstruction takes.  If the LL & HL are disadvantaged by the proposal then George Fraser will face a mutiny from the LL clubs. 

 

I don't have a problem in principal with reconstruction as long as it enables fluidity of movement up and down from the pyramid leagues.  If it involves extending L2 to say 16 teams, initially including the OF B teams, and the LL & HL champions then I would reluctantly accept it, just as long as automatic promotion/relegation is part of the solution.  

 

I'd be delighted if automatic promotion is introduced. Will be pleasantly surprised if enough League 1 & 2 can be convinced to ever vote for that. They'd need a very big financial incentive from Rangers and Celtic.

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RustyRightPeg

Anyone else think the new league sponsorship has something to do with this? I’m for it, as I was when Budge proposed it. Will be interesting to see if they agree with it now as it’s come from the top.

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LarrysRightFoot

What we need is proper league reconstruction with significantly bigger leagues 12 team leagues means splits - which is an utter nonsense. I can’t believe it’s lasted this long - it’s crap!

 

2 x 16 or 18 team national leagues with a pyramid of regionalised leagues below. 

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1 hour ago, RustyRightPeg said:

Anyone else think the new league sponsorship has something to do with this? I’m for it, as I was when Budge proposed it. Will be interesting to see if they agree with it now as it’s come from the top.

So they can sell extra cars to those in the lowland league?

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