Last Laff Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, jambostuart said: Agreed, and prior to that a penalty shootout required vs Israel to get there... We have what I would say is probably the most talented squad in maybe 20 years but we are not utilising the players correctly and we really do need an out and out striker. We still qualified. Same as we are in the Scottish cup final from a penalty. Nobody should care how we get there and will be forgotten in the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Last Laff said: All true, Clarke came in after the shambles of McLeish struggling to beat San Marino and pumped in Khzakakstan I think and came in to make us organised hard to beat not anything glamorous and do whatever it takes to get us to a major finals and hopefully build from there. The team is boring don’t play with any imagination or freedom and grind out dull shit with the the occasional brilliant display. I think we have missed our most creative player in Fraser and im still confident in progress plus we are actually going to a tournament, make the Country £10m football wise and imagine the boost to the economy next summer if we are allowed out. I’m willing to forgive the primary for the latter in all honesty. 👍🏻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambostuart Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, Last Laff said: We still qualified. Same as we are in the Scottish cup final from a penalty. Nobody should care how we get there and will be forgotten in the summer. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy we're there, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't analyse the performances nor realise we're not doing anywhere near as well as we should. We made progress through qualifying, which is fantastic, but it really is fine margins and I hope the coaching staff are aware that vast improvement is required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 53 minutes ago, Last Laff said: Why would the abandon a successful format which makes them lots of money? Because your bigger nations will lose patience with a system where North Macedonia qualify for the finals by virtue of beating Armenia, Georgia, Kosovo, Estonia etc. It’s like Burnley qualifying for the Champions League by winning a few round robins against Norwich and Barnsley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex member of the SaS Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Had a laugh at everyone going mental at the result that only got us into a competition. The Scottish National team will never progress with the backward thinking and has been players. I am a big supporter of Scotland but the National team lost my support a long long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Laff Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: Because your bigger nations will lose patience with a system where North Macedonia qualify for the finals by virtue of beating Armenia, Georgia, Kosovo, Estonia etc. It’s like Burnley qualifying for the Champions League by winning a few round robins against Norwich and Barnsley They all qualify anyway and then get big matches against each other which is much more interesting commercially than friendlies. It’s not as if any of them are losing out on a place as they piss the proper groups anyway and if they don’t bring in group A guarantees a playoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Laff Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Ex member of the SaS said: Had a laugh at everyone going mental at the result that only got us into a competition. The Scottish National team will never progress with the backward thinking and has been players. I am a big supporter of Scotland but the National team lost my support a long long time ago. Yeah because being in the competition instead of usually not being there is utter shite eh? As is the money the country will make and a feel good factor in such shite times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex member of the SaS Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Last Laff said: Yeah because being in the competition instead of usually not being there is utter shite eh? As is the money the country will make and a feel good factor in such shite times. Said after THAT game we need to improve massively if we are to go anywhere, and it's clear we have not. Clark's insistence on playing the likes of McBurnie prove we will never make a mark. Getting into the finals is fine if that's your asperations, but winning games in the finals are the goal and we just won't. Would rather not be there as get humiliated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoked-Glass Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Let's wait and see draw on the 7th December. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rabbit Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: The bottom line is that qualification via a pretty questionable Nations League system has deflected attention from the very average international side that we are. In conventional terms, we didn’t actually qualify for the Euros. We got in through a weird structure which UEFA will abandon at some stage. Don’t agree with that. The nations league has removed meaningless friendlies and has given an avenue for teams to qualify who wouldn’t necessarily manage it through the usual channels. Saying we didn’t actually qualify but will be in the competition next summer is a strange one. We should be commended for getting to our first competition in 22 years but should also be criticised for allowing an opportunity to do so much more slip out our hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Lynam Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 22 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said: Had a laugh at everyone going mental at the result that only got us into a competition. The Scottish National team will never progress with the backward thinking and has been players. I am a big supporter of Scotland but the National team lost my support a long long time ago. No progress? We just qualified for the Euros. You do realise the World Cup is a competition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Laff Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 14 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said: Said after THAT game we need to improve massively if we are to go anywhere, and it's clear we have not. Clark's insistence on playing the likes of McBurnie prove we will never make a mark. Getting into the finals is fine if that's your asperations, but winning games in the finals are the goal and we just won't. Would rather not be there as get humiliated. Why would we get Humiliated off a side we have just beaten home and away and a Croatia side that’s in decline both at home? Also did you have that attitude in 2006 when we made the Champions League? No point in trying in case we get pumped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 It's worth noting that North Macedonia and Scotland would have both been in the playoffs under the last qualifying structure by finishing 3rd in their groups. The nations league hasn't had any dramatic affect in weakening qualifying, it's only guaranteed one team from that lower tier makes it ( and I'll bet there's zero chance of Tier 4 getting an automatic place Note it's entirely complete minnows) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Last Laff said: Why would we get Humiliated off a side we have just beaten home and away and a Croatia side that’s in decline both at home? Also did you have that attitude in 2006 when we made the Champions League? No point in trying in case we get pumped? If we play like we did against Serbia we'll give all 3 teams a game. Well organised difficult to beat sides do well at tournaments such is the format of them. I could see us going through with 4 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo92 Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rudy T said: If we play like we did against Serbia we'll give all 3 teams a game. Well organised difficult to beat sides do well at tournaments such is the format of them. I could see us going through with 4 points. We played some nice football against Serbia but in reality created very little. Great achievement after all this time to get there but some of the coverage makes it look like we've inherited Belgiums squad. Don't think we have enough quality at this current moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 11 minutes ago, Des Lynam said: No progress? We just qualified for the Euros. You do realise the World Cup is a competition? I guess the question is about the bigger picture. Does this qualification make us a good team? And is the structure of Scottish football/the SFA any more likely to make us successful in the future? The answer to both is no as far as I can see. The Scottish game needs a massive overhaul. This qualification is an excuse for those who don’t want to change it or can’t be bothered to change it to carry on dodging big decisions. That said, I can’t wait for England-Scotland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Laff Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Rudy T said: If we play like we did against Serbia we'll give all 3 teams a game. Well organised difficult to beat sides do well at tournaments such is the format of them. I could see us going through with 4 points. Yeah me too. England to pump everyone a win and a draw would hopefully be enough. If Czech or Croatia are more open against England it would be beneficial for us too. Edited November 19, 2020 by Last Laff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Jambo92 said: We played some nice football against Serbia but in reality created very little. Great achievement after all this time to get there but some of the coverage makes it look like we've inherited Belgiums squad. Don't think we have enough quality at this current moment. Lack of scoring goals and losing the odd deflected or a goal against possession, where have I come across this before? Edited November 19, 2020 by colinmaroon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacerjoe Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 18 minutes ago, Last Laff said: Why would we get Humiliated off a side we have just beaten home and away and a Croatia side that’s in decline both at home? Also did you have that attitude in 2006 when we made the Champions League? No point in trying in case we get pumped? That wasn't the Czech team we beat - it was their 2nd team. I don't think we will get pumped by anyone outside of the top 10 these days as we are setup to be hard to break down, but the Czechs will be a different proposition if they don't all have covid again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacerjoe Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Spellczech said: It is the problem with Scotland. Imagine we got out of a group stage for once at a tournment. I'd expect to see our players get drunk after that too...Last night Israel wanted revenge and they got it...We chucked the Slovakia game for nothing. How did we chuck that game? We had enough chances to win easy. We just couldn't put them away. At no point did we look any worse than in any other game this year. We are just not that good up front. In the previous 3 games we scored 2 goals! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Laff Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, spacerjoe said: That wasn't the Czech team we beat - it was their 2nd team. I don't think we will get pumped by anyone outside of the top 10 these days as we are setup to be hard to break down, but the Czechs will be a different proposition if they don't all have covid again.... Was it their second team at Hampden? We’ve had players out and injuries also and it was our second team on Sunday there. You hey will of course be a lot better but we could still beat them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Last Laff said: Was it their second team at Hampden? We’ve had players out and injuries also and it was our second team on Sunday there. You hey will of course be a lot better but we could still beat them again. We were more understrength for the Hampden game than they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, spacerjoe said: How did we chuck that game? We had enough chances to win easy. We just couldn't put them away. At no point did we look any worse than in any other game this year. We are just not that good up front. In the previous 3 games we scored 2 goals! You reckon that was our strongest team? I have a Slovakian mate and he says they are on the decline - ageing team. Slovakia was the better chance for a win, but Clarke went for Israel instead even though they'd be highly motivated to prove a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Laff Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, Diego10 said: We were more understrength for the Hampden game than they were. Yeah rings a bell. The people dying to undermine wins though. Northern Ireland made the last Euros, I’ve literally no idea how many scraped wins they did to make it there or I wasn’t laughing thinking or hoping they would be pumped, I was jealous and glad they done so well. I don’t think any nation will be seeing us as a joke outfit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 23 minutes ago, Jambo92 said: We played some nice football against Serbia but in reality created very little. Great achievement after all this time to get there but some of the coverage makes it look like we've inherited Belgiums squad. Don't think we have enough quality at this current moment. We should've been 2 ahead and the game finished. In tournament games getting a 1-0 lead and defending for your lives has served many lesser nations well. I think Portugal won without winning a game in 90mins, Greece another nation who just sat in, it might be dull to watch but I doubt we'll care if we progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, Spellczech said: You reckon that was our strongest team? I have a Slovakian mate and he says they are on the decline - ageing team. Slovakia was the better chance for a win, but Clarke went for Israel instead even though they'd be highly motivated to prove a point. Slovakia probably was the better chance for a win, but we'd just had 120 minutes plus penalties so I can see why he didn't want to play the same team again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Laff Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Slovakia are in the Euros, I’m not sure they are the easiest option to win tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddley Walker Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Anyone that has watched us play in the past few years can see the progression. If folk want to deny that then they either don't watch us or don't know much about football. We've not been solid for a while now, until the last couple of months. It's our finishing that's been the main problem. That's one of the nicer issues to have though, we're creating chances and routinely getting into good positions. I'm hopeful this will improve come March, and hopefully we can get some pace into our forward line through Fraser and Forrest too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacerjoe Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, Spellczech said: You reckon that was our strongest team? I have a Slovakian mate and he says they are on the decline - ageing team. Slovakia was the better chance for a win, but Clarke went for Israel instead even though they'd be highly motivated to prove a point. We missed Dykes, who was suspended. Thought Tierney was as good as Robertson has been for us. Rest of the defensive swaps were much of a muchness - we didn't gift them any chances and the goal was a deflection. Armstrong improved us, in my opinion. We created more chances in that game than our 'first team' did in any other. Against Israel in the semi final I think we had one shot in 90 mins or something ridiculous! That was one of the worst games of football I've ever witnessed! The point is we created enough chances to win. Having Robertson or McGregor or Gallagher play that match would have made no difference to the result (again in my opinion). And you have to remember, celebrations or not, that team had just played 120 mins of football. Our captain, and others, would have been rested anyway, no doubt about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacerjoe Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 22 minutes ago, Last Laff said: Was it their second team at Hampden? We’ve had players out and injuries also and it was our second team on Sunday there. You hey will of course be a lot better but we could still beat them again. Yeah to be fair the Hampden game was more even. I think, as the Serbia game showed, we can beat anyone these days. We're hard to break down and if we can sneak a goal then we've got a chance. Plus, we are probably the only team to have never missed a penalty in a shootout! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Laff Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Just now, spacerjoe said: Yeah to be fair the Hampden game was more even. I think, as the Serbia game showed, we can beat anyone these days. We're hard to break down and if we can sneak a goal then we've got a chance. Plus, we are probably the only team to have never missed a penalty in a shootout! And Serbia aren’t any mugs as last night showed and they beat Norway away to play us. And aye, beat the Czechs first game Croatia lose to England we would hopefully need a point in one of the two games and then play for pens in the next round. 😎 simples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted November 19, 2020 Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 Were the players really up till 5 in the morning after the Serbia game getting pissed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Laff Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, DETTY29 said: Were the players really up till 5 in the morning after the Serbia game getting pissed? Clarke hardly looks the life and soul of a party type. I would highly doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted November 19, 2020 Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 22 minutes ago, spacerjoe said: We missed Dykes, who was suspended. Thought Tierney was as good as Robertson has been for us. Rest of the defensive swaps were much of a muchness - we didn't gift them any chances and the goal was a deflection. Armstrong improved us, in my opinion. We created more chances in that game than our 'first team' did in any other. Against Israel in the semi final I think we had one shot in 90 mins or something ridiculous! That was one of the worst games of football I've ever witnessed! The point is we created enough chances to win. Having Robertson or McGregor or Gallagher play that match would have made no difference to the result (again in my opinion). And you have to remember, celebrations or not, that team had just played 120 mins of football. Our captain, and others, would have been rested anyway, no doubt about it. Little nuances though. Jack not playing, and for now he is our best player at sniffing out danger where the Slovaks scored from and McGinn playing a defensive role. 4 left sided players in the back 5, none of the 3 in the middle able to bring the ball out. Taking far too long for Tierney to play as a Robertson wing back. I.e. 10 yards further back starting point. Fundamentally, you have to games to win the league. 2nd last game against the weakest team, last away to a team that that cause you problems. I know what I would do. That decision may end up impacting Scottish football at major tournament level for another player generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacerjoe Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 43 minutes ago, DETTY29 said: Little nuances though. Jack not playing, and for now he is our best player at sniffing out danger where the Slovaks scored from and McGinn playing a defensive role. 4 left sided players in the back 5, none of the 3 in the middle able to bring the ball out. Taking far too long for Tierney to play as a Robertson wing back. I.e. 10 yards further back starting point. Fundamentally, you have to games to win the league. 2nd last game against the weakest team, last away to a team that that cause you problems. I know what I would do. That decision may end up impacting Scottish football at major tournament level for another player generation. No it wouldn't. We are not guaranteed a playoff from winning the league b group and even then its only a playoff that you still need to win against higher ranked sides than Serbia most likely. Plus if you are in league A you don't even get a playoff for the next Euros, so ironically we're better off for the next Euros staying put in league B. I still stand by the fact we did enough to win that Slovakia game. You make some good points on those differences, but I saw nothing in that game that resembled those flaws. We weren't hoofing it up thr park, Tierney got as many crosses in as Robertson has in any other for us and we had clear cut chances we should have finished. Maybe we would have completely destroyed them with the first team, but I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Marsh Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Looking at those seedings you could argue that Pot 3 is tougher than Pot 2. Much of a likeness. If we are drawn in a group of 6 then Denmark, Turkey, Scotland, Luxembourg, Andorra and San Marino please. 🤞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 I’m just delighted this nations league exists now, it gives shite diddy teams like us a sneaky entry to the euros we shouldn’t be there along with the likes of north Macedonia but we have to take what we can get! If this tournament existed before then we wouldn’t have had to wait so long to qualify. No danger would this Scotland squad or manager ever qualify for a tournament the traditional way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Rob Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Last night was hugely disappointing, but perhaps it was needed as a reality check. We have a decent side, but no better than that, and we still have real problems up front. We’ve essentially adopted the NI approach and compensated for a lack of star quality by creating a club atmosphere and working hard for each other. Which is great, but we need to remain realistic about what this group is likely to achieve. We needed one win from two away games without fans and we lost both. What is worse is that as soon as we went behind in both games, you knew it would grind out as a scrappy 1-0. Israel had nothing to play for either. I’m not one for stuffing the national team with mercenaries, but I do think that if we could get a good striker (Che Adams, perhaps) to commit to us before next summer, it might make a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAndy Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, Randy Marsh said: Looking at those seedings you could argue that Pot 3 is tougher than Pot 2. Much of a likeness. If we are drawn in a group of 6 then Denmark, Turkey, Scotland, Luxembourg, Andorra and San Marino please. 🤞 Yeah was just working out my ideal pairings and came up with this apart from swapping Turkey for Slovakia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Rob Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Shanks said: I’m just delighted this nations league exists now, it gives shite diddy teams like us a sneaky entry to the euros we shouldn’t be there along with the likes of north Macedonia but we have to take what we can get! If this tournament existed before then we wouldn’t have had to wait so long to qualify. No danger would this Scotland squad or manager ever qualify for a tournament the traditional way. A bit unfair IMHO. We may have got into the playoffs out of an easy group, but you still have to win them when you get there. We expected to draw Norway and get thrashed, so maybe we caught a break. But we still beat a decent team in the final to qualify. After all the ways we have managed not to qualify in the last two decades, I think we were due a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 5 hours ago, Diego10 said: Some absolutely nuclear takes on this thread. Fact is if we'd shown better finishing we'd have won all 3 of these games comfortably. The system Clarke has brought in has made us more solid defensively and has us creating far more chances. We're a team with few top class players, but at least we are playing somewhere near our capabilities in games now This. The levels of naive daftness on here last night were something else. Funnily enough, from the same posters who would be saying the polar opposite if we were talking about Hearts rather than Scotland. We were clueless under McLeish. Clarke has come in, he has made us organised and solid. We've kept possession better. He's created a team spirit and brought back a bit passion that was sorely missing. We've got the wins to qualify for the Euros because of that. We are a better side than both Slovakia and Israel but lack options to play natural wingers as both Forrest and Fraser are unavailable. We don't have a match fit or on form striker who scores loads of goals. Griffiths is the closest thing to that but he's clearly had his issues. We don't have good balance on the right side of defence, nor do we have a plethora of options at Right Wing Back. Clarke's doing his best with what he has got available to him but I don't think we are the finished article. I think he's just tried to stop the rot, get us solid and we will possibly build on that allowing us to create more and score more. I really don't see a problem at the minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S Form Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 47 minutes ago, Cruyff said: This. The levels of naive daftness on here last night were something else. Funnily enough, from the same posters who would be saying the polar opposite if we were talking about Hearts rather than Scotland. We were clueless under McLeish. Clarke has come in, he has made us organised and solid. We've kept possession better. He's created a team spirit and brought back a bit passion that was sorely missing. We've got the wins to qualify for the Euros because of that. We are a better side than both Slovakia and Israel but lack options to play natural wingers as both Forrest and Fraser are unavailable. We don't have a match fit or on form striker who scores loads of goals. Griffiths is the closest thing to that but he's clearly had his issues. We don't have good balance on the right side of defence, nor do we have a plethora of options at Right Wing Back. Clarke's doing his best with what he has got available to him but I don't think we are the finished article. I think he's just tried to stop the rot, get us solid and we will possibly build on that allowing us to create more and score more. I really don't see a problem at the minute. I agree that we’re a better side than Slovakia, but I’m not sure we’re superior to Israel. Recent games would suggest we’re on a par with them. If anything they’re slightly better, having a striker who’s pretty dangerous at international level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971fozzy Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 21 hours ago, Last Laff said: When did Slovakia become diddies? That’s true. apart from beating us, they’ve also managed to beat Azerbaijan , Hungary, Northern Ireland and Jordan in their last 18 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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