Hearts transfers (Cochrane goes on loan to Montrose)

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

It’s funny how whenever prominent figures at Hearts are criticised, certain posters rush to explain how they’re not actually responsible for anything. Which figures because no-one at Hearts ever seems to take responsibility for anything.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Dusk_Till_Dawn

[Guest ToqueJambo]

9 minutes ago, Kenneth Dubeke said:

Given Hearts are the 3rd largest club in Scotland under pretty much every conceivable metric,  who would you have felt we should finish behind in a league minus Hibs and Rangers?

 

Clearly we've gone full circle and back where we started 6 years later. Same manager back at the helm. Budge appears to know few people in football. She hung on to Levein far too long and has gone back for Neilson. That doesn't appear to be the actions of a well connected football club owner 

 

If it's true that JJ has wanted John Murray to come back I truly worry about where we're going and what lessons we've learned from recent failings 

 

I certainly don't think Hearts will ever realise our full potential whilst Ann Budge is at the helm 

 

 

What is that in your mind, just so we get where you're coming from?

Edited August 4, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Just now, gowestjambo said:

After the plethora of woeful signings Hearts have made over the last few years, I am utterly amazed John Murray is still employed by the club in any capacity.

It’s not that amazing. Levein had a job for life until someone spray painted the heart in front of the main stand and Budge panicked about things getting nasty.

[Leveins Battalion]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

Folk thinking we can go out in the middle of a global pandemic and hire a whole new scouting team 🙄 

 

Seems prudent as a short term fix in the circumstances (just like JJ is) to being in someone who has a proven record for recruiting for us last time we needed a championship winning team, who knows JJ and Neilson, who knows the Scottish game and players, who knows all the other Hearts scouts, and who probably has a list of players ready to go. I mean can scouts even properly scout players just now?

 

How do we know Murray and co didn't put players in front of Levein and Cathro in the past that they rejected, but might have worked out well? 

 

 

Its not short term,Budge and the boards review of the Football Department was stated as happening nearly 9  months ago,were still waiting.

 

Since then we have had Austin MacPhee ''the stats man'' as Budge calls him scouting from his bedroom for Daniel Stendel only for Stendel to refuse the players offered (allegedly),all whilst Stendel had none of his own coaching staff for months.

 

We have also inteviewed countless candidates for the position of Sporting Director as Budge had stated this as priority before a manager,still nobody in position,no vision that we know of.

 

Winging it she is.

 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

It’s funny how whenever prominent figures at Hearts at criticised, certain posters rush to explain how they’re not actually responsible for anything. Which figures because no-one at Hearts ever seems to take responsibility for anything.

 

Tell us what Murray is responsible for then?

[OmiyaHearts]

Bobby Burns has left and signed for Barrow.

[Kenneth Dubeke]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

We weren't even on the worst run of form in the league when demoted or bookie's favourites to go down. It was far from a foregone conclusion, despite Stendel not looking up to a relegation battle while still learning our game.

Hamilton were bookies favourites as far as I can recall 

 

That night in Paisley should be a chilling recollection for all Hearts fans. The performance was disgraceful and it proved to be a very defining moment 

[XXX]

Ex-Hearts striker Gavin Reilly signs for Carlisle. 

[Kenneth Dubeke]

Just now, OmiyaHearts said:

Bobby Burns has left and signed for Barrow.

His level. Far too slow 

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, Boris said:

No arguments regards Leveins ultimate inability. I guess the point is who has the final say. You would imagine it is the manager and if they are happy with what is being offered, the blame lies at their door for A. Accepting the dross and B. Not emptying the supplier of said dross.

 

But as has been mentioned, there have been decent signings.

There has but in the main they’ve been poor and cost the club millions, with millions more to come from the downward spiral when Neilson escaped three years ago. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

This is a great thread for getting the ignore list sorted for the new season. Let's talk about new signings and get on with the new season. No, no let's rip into Levein and co for a bit longer.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

Tell us what Murray is responsible for then?

No, no. You’re the one telling us he’s not responsible for owt. His badge says head of recruitment so I’ll assume he has some responsibility for recruitment.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

This is a great thread for getting the ignore list sorted for the new season. Let's talk about new signings and get on with the new season. No, no let's rip into Levein and co for a bit longer.

“Nothing to see here people, move on.”

 

Has been the constant refrain during our decline.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

No, no. You’re the one telling us he’s not responsible for owt. His badge says head of recruitment so I’ll assume he has some responsibility for recruitment.

 

Yes in the same way HR - or as they like to call themselves these days, Talent Teams - is responsible for recruitment. ie not actually deciding who is recruited.

[wavydavy]

6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Hyperbolic shite. Wasn't Murray at the club when we signed our last Championship team?

 

We are not going to be signing a new team especially at the moment. We seem to be able to have money to spend on many things why not a new replacement for Murray?

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Yes. 

 

Wait, is this, is this the first "Neilson oot"? Must be a record even for Kickback.

Who? 
I know your judgement on managers is poor but even you must see it’s a possible backwards step rehiring a manager considering it didn’t work with Jeffries or Levein. 

[Leveins Battalion]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

This is a great thread for getting the ignore list sorted for the new season. Let's talk about new signings and get on with the new season. No, no let's rip into Levein and co for a bit longer.

 

I doubt it will ever be forgotten the mess we have been left in.

 

Certainly not after a few months.

[Famous 1874]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

What we have done is bring back/retain our head of scouting and player recruitment who had retired at the end of last season. The Board’s  new football advisor wanted him back on the payroll. 

John Murray is still at the club? Un****ing believable. I’d work for free at Hearts and could pinpoint players a million miles ahead of what we currently have and for the fraction of the price. An example from last season, how has John Murray our chief scout recommended Loic Damour? Surely he has seen him play on numerous occasions and realised that he is nowhere near Hearts standard and does not suit the fast paced game here in Scotland. And yet, Damour gets given a 4 year deal and is likely one of our top earners. Disgrace. When will things actually change at this club. 

[J.T.F.Robertson]

6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

What is that in your mind, just so we get where you're coming from?

 

Ah ken.

We haven't done that for for 60 years or so, no matter who was "at the helm".

[Kenneth Dubeke]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

“Nothing to see here people, move on.”

 

Has been the constant refrain during our decline.

We probably receive more income from FoH and benevolent contributions than some of the teams in the SPL generate in turnover!! 

 

How the hell can you get related in such circumstances? It should be impossible 

 

Our fans have decided to focus on injustices imposed upon us by third parties rather than ask how this situation could ever have happened 

 

Ann Budge has some real explaining to do. She is merely a custodian of the club and she has overseen under achievement on a scale I thought I'd never witness 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Has anyone considered it might be hard to find a brand new recruitment team in the current situation? Whoever was responsible for building our last championship team (Neilson, Levein and it sounds like Murray) did a fantastic job. JJ is arguably an upgrade on Levein as he won't faff about with punts so maybe we should wait to see who we sign and how they do? Just a thought.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

4 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

 

 

''Hearts will never realise our full potential whilst Ann Budge is at the helm''

 

There  it is!

 

 

 

 

99% of clubs worldwide are the same. This has to be the easiest prediction ever. 

 

Rare bird a club reaching full potential. 

 

Took Liverpool 30 years to realise their potential again .

 

We may never reach our full potential as long as we live, we haven't in my life anyhow 

[GinRummy]

Thread needs some new transfer rumours. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

Has anyone considered it might be hard to find a brand new recruitment team in the current situation? Whoever was responsible for building our last championship team (Neilson, Levein and it sounds like Murray) did a fantastic job. JJ is arguably an upgrade on Levein as he won't faff about with punts so maybe we should wait to see who we sign and how they do? Just a thought.

Murray was, apparently, supposed to retire this summer. Common sense tells you to plan for that.
 

COVID will be the new excuse for everything.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

We are not going to be signing a new team especially at the moment. We seem to be able to have money to spend on many things why not a new replacement for Murray?

 

Because global pandemic? Maybe in the current situation we want someone with a track record of working with Neilson and JJ and who helped to build our last genuinely good team. When things are back to normal we can reboot everything a bit more strategically.

[Pasquale for King]

12 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

It’s funny how whenever prominent figures at Hearts are criticised, certain posters rush to explain how they’re not actually responsible for anything. Which figures because no-one at Hearts ever seems to take responsibility for anything.

They all repeat the same excuses.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

2 minutes ago, Kenneth Dubeke said:

We probably receive more income from FoH and benevolent contributions than some of the teams in the SPL generate in turnover!! 

 

How the hell can you get related in such circumstances? It should be impossible 

 

Our fans have decided to focus on injustices imposed upon us by third parties rather than ask how this situation could ever have happened 

 

Ann Budge has some real explaining to do. She is merely a custodian of the club and she has overseen under achievement on a scale I thought I'd never witness 

 

All this should have been discussed on here long before now, imo. 

 

We ken!

 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Murray was, apparently, supposed to retire this summer. Common sense tells you to plan for that.
 

COVID will be the new excuse for everything.

 

Always interesting when people with agendas throw around the word "excuse". COVID is a "reason" not an excuse, just like injuries were. Doesn't say you can't still do good things with a massive injury list or during a massive ****ing pandemic but it doesn't exactly make it easier. Perhaps you're just one of the lucky ones who hasn't been affected by this whole thing.

[wavydavy]

5 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

John Murray is still at the club? Un****ing believable. I’d work for free at Hearts and could pinpoint players a million miles ahead of what we currently have and for the fraction of the price. An example from last season, how has John Murray our chief scout recommended Loic Damour? Surely he has seen him play on numerous occasions and realised that he is nowhere near Hearts standard and does not suit the fast paced game here in Scotland. And yet, Damour gets given a 4 year deal and is likely one of our top earners. Disgrace. When will things actually change at this club. 

 

The one thing I would say is that to the best of my knowledge it is not John MUrray who dishes out the contracts. I am no great fan of his and would prefer to see a new person with a decent record replace him but he only recommends the players, h doesn't sign them.

[wavydavy]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Because global pandemic? Maybe in the current situation we want someone with a track record of working with Neilson and JJ and who helped to build our last genuinely good team. When things are back to normal we can reboot everything a bit more strategically.

 

If only we had a Benefactor who could help us out.

[Adam_the_legend]

1 hour ago, baxterd1974 said:

Our wage budget was marginally below Aberdeen and marginally above Hibs.  So you think they will challenge the OF and go on Euro runs?

I think our potential to increase revenues (and wage budget) well above Aberdeen was there between FOH, benefactors and improved revenue streams through the new stand. Maybe I was being a little ambitious but was top 4 too much to expect?!

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

Has anyone considered it might be hard to find a brand new recruitment team in the current situation? Whoever was responsible for building our last championship team (Neilson, Levein and it sounds like Murray) did a fantastic job. JJ is arguably an upgrade on Levein as he won't faff about with punts so maybe we should wait to see who we sign and how they do? Just a thought.

Jeffries is there to help the board, Neilson will choose what players he wants without his input. 

[Kenneth Dubeke]

2 minutes ago, J.T.F.Robertson said:

 

All this should have been discussed on here long before now, imo. 

 

We ken!

 

 

Just let it was over us then? Accept it and move on 

 

Maybe we should hold the owner to account and make it abundantly clear that as a support we are horrified at what she has overseen 

[XXX]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Thread needs some new transfer rumours. 

Keep an eye on this link:

 

https://www.footballtransferleague.co.uk/clubs/hearts

[CJGJ]

The fact that people do not even know the responsibilities of many of the clubs backroom staff allows all and sundry to speculate even if there is no foundation to their posts

 

Others jump on the bandwagon and off we go

 

There is no club who gets more than 50%-60% of their transfer business correct except the fantasy football clubs of some posters where all is sweetness and light when the right man is in charge.

 

You can't have it all ways and a higher than 50%/60% success rate (and who decides what success is..transfer profit, appearances ? ) is a more than decent result

 

You can name Smith, Naismith, Haring, Hickey, Lafferty and even Clare on the plus side with others such as our here today gone tomorrow striker Vanecek, Damour, Sammon. Pereira, Whelan and Martin on the negative side over the last 2/3 years

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Anyhow, back to transfers. Personally I think Craig Gordon is still the best signing any Scottish club has made so far, considering we effectively took him from Celtic who wanted him and any other Premiership team would also have taken him - so that's a start.

 

A new manager with a kinder injury list should be able to get a lot more out of the current squad in the Premiership, never mind the Championship. I don't think anyone expects a complete squad overhaul. More width and a CB are essential though.

[1874robbo]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

It was him that hired him initially, I haven’t seen that mentioned before, thanks for the info. A ****ing disastrous decision. 

It’ll be a jobs for the boys appointment!!

was hoping to get a new chief scout in but won’t be happening now! Actually gutted at this news.

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Murray was, apparently, supposed to retire this summer. Common sense tells you to plan for that.
 

COVID will be the new excuse for everything.

To me that’s the problem that needs sorting, we need someone to run the football side of the business, call them what you will. Who picks that person is also an issue. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

I think our potential to increase revenues (and wage budget) well above Aberdeen was there between FOH, benefactors and improved revenue streams through the new stand. Maybe I was being a little ambitious but was top 4 too much to expect?!

 

Top 3 or 4 and occasionally even having a go at 2nd or better, is absolutely our place. However it's deluded to expect that every season. We generally move about between 3rd and 5th with the occasional 6th or 2nd.

 

We got top 3 in 15/16 and were heading there before Neilson left and before injuries hit in 18/19. 18/19 is the season that could have been for me. We could very easily have finished 3rd minimum that year with the momentum we were building.

[Famous 1874]

5 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

The one thing I would say is that to the best of my knowledge it is not John MUrray who dishes out the contracts. I am no great fan of his and would prefer to see a new person with a decent record replace him but he only recommends the players, h doesn't sign them.

Point noted. I stand corrected regarding the contract lengths dished out. However, his scouting and recommendations are still absolutely shocking and he needs punted, along with most people at the top of the club. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, 1874robbo said:

It’ll be a jobs for the boys appointment!!

was hoping to get a new chief scout in but won’t be happening now! Actually gutted at this news.

It was always going to be that way, thankfully Neilson was hired first or Locke and Brown would be back and all four would be back on the recruitment gravy train.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Famous 1874 said:

Point noted. I stand corrected regarding the contract lengths dished out. However, his scouting and recommendations are still absolutely shocking and he needs punted, along with most people at the top of the club. 

 

I wouldn't know Murray if I bumped into him, but we simply don't know what players he recommends or what types of players he is instructed to find. 

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

He did well in the Australian A League and that is a higher level than the shite in this country.

 

In my opinion.

Why did they not sign him then 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

It was always going to be that way, thankfully Neilson was hired first or Locke and Brown would be back and all four would be back on the recruitment gravy train.

 

I'm a big Neilson fan, but JJ in the dugout with Brown and Locke for a tilt at the Championship would be fantastic fun. We'd walk it even more than we probably will.

[Kenneth Dubeke]

Just now, jonnothejambo said:

 

He did well in the Australian A League and that is a higher level than the shite in this country.

 

In my opinion.

I believe he did do well over there 

 

On the occasions I watched him I felt he was too slow. Didn't lack effort 

 

That's Burns, Keena and Stockton left Hearts to join English non league sides. It possibly says much about recruitment and how poor it's been 

 

Bar needs raised far higher. Watched Motherwell last night. They were very poor but had a number of players in my opinion who would improve us. They've recruited at a level below where we've been sourcing players and their results have been far more successful 

 

The potential at this club is huge. We need to right people in key roles to allow us to fulfill it 

 

Good luck to Bobby Burns 

[ramrod]

6 minutes ago, Kenneth Dubeke said:

Just let it was over us then? Accept it and move on 

 

Maybe we should hold the owner to account and make it abundantly clear that as a support we are horrified at what she has overseen 

Brilliant , another one has appeared . 🙄

[milky_26]

2 minutes ago, Kenneth Dubeke said:

I believe he did do well over there 

 

On the occasions I watched him I felt he was too slow. Didn't lack effort 

 

That's Burns, Keena and Stockton left Hearts to join English non league sides. It possibly says much about recruitment and how poor it's been 

 

Bar needs raised far higher. Watched Motherwell last night. They were very poor but had a number of players in my opinion who would improve us. They've recruited at a level below where we've been sourcing players and their results have been far more successful 

 

The potential at this club is huge. We need to right people in key roles to allow us to fulfill it 

 

Good luck to Bobby Burns 

barrow are not a non league side, they were promoted to league 2

 

also i believe when stockton left us for carlisle they were a league 2 club as well

Edited August 4, 2020 by milky_26

[Kenneth Dubeke]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I'm a big Neilson fan, but JJ in the dugout with Brown and Locke for a tilt at the Championship would be fantastic fun. We'd walk it even more than we probably will.

Are you serious 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, Kenneth Dubeke said:

I believe he did do well over there 

 

On the occasions I watched him I felt he was too slow. Didn't lack effort 

 

That's Burns, Keena and Stockton left Hearts to join English non league sides. It possibly says much about recruitment and how poor it's been 

 

Bar needs raised far higher. Watched Motherwell last night. They were very poor but had a number of players in my opinion who would improve us. They've recruited at a level below where we've been sourcing players and their results have been far more successful 

 

The potential at this club is huge. We need to right people in key roles to allow us to fulfill it 

 

Good luck to Bobby Burns 

 

All punts. We all know Levein in particular went overboard with his punts. Sometimes when some managers get too much money to work with they aren't as effective at recruiting. It happened with JJ too.

 

We will be much more focused this season. Actually we were much more focused last summer and last January as well - just signing for positions we needed strengthening in. 

 

We were all - maybe even the likes of you - very pleased with last summer's recruitment. Shame that over half of them got major injuries almost immediately. Same with January - Sibbick and Boyce injured straight away.

Edited August 4, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Kenneth Dubeke]

Just now, milky_26 said:

barrow are not a non league side, they were promoted to league 2

Apologies,  you are quite correct 

 

Probably a decent move for him. I always thought he had a bit of dig and might have been decent in central midfield