Hearts transfers (Cochrane goes on loan to Montrose)

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, ericb said:

I think we should trim 6 players on top of Burns, leaving 22, if I had any say.....

 

Doyle, Bobby, Hickey*, Morrison, Damour and Macdonald to go, replaced with 2 midfielders and a CH for a squad of 25

 

*seems inevitable

Harsh on Morrison and Macdonald, this season will be important for them though. The market hasn’t really kicked in yet so there could be a few more bigger names away. Hopefully Warnock will want Damour to help him out at Middlesbrough as a low cost signing 🤞🙏.

[ericb]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Harsh on Morrison and Macdonald, this season will be important for them though. The market hasn’t really kicked in yet so there could be a few more bigger names away. Hopefully Warnock will want Damour to help him out at Middlesbrough as a low cost signing 🤞🙏.

Yes, probably harsh on those two, but the squad is bloated. Whatever thoughts are on Moore and Henderson, they have just been given contracts, so are staying. So two from Moore/Henderson/Morrison/Macdonald/Walker have to go, as they are all pretty much of the same mould, particularly if RN is looking at even more wide men.

Edited August 4, 2020 by ericb

[jambocub]

9 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Harsh on Morrison and Macdonald, this season will be important for them though. The market hasn’t really kicked in yet so there could be a few more bigger names away. Hopefully Warnock will want Damour to help him out at Middlesbrough as a low cost signing 🤞🙏.

Morrison is already away is he not?

[CJGJ]

We can take our time for once re any signings...of course within reason

 

The added 'bonus' is the introduction of wage caps in the English lower leagues and there will be more players than ever available with some at reasonable fees given Covid

 

Time to try and move on those who we want to go and those who want to go.

 

There are a few we could release/move on with little or no impact to the squad and I'd rather we went for youngsters with potential as signings as well us trying those already with us in the Championship...this is the ideal time to truly blood them for we will have at least 20/22 players who are more than good enough to get us promoted

Properly motivated and coached I doubt we need any new players in to go up but managers will always want more and to bring in 'their own' 

 

Of course sales/injuries may impact upon the squad and that needs to be addressed should that happen

[Kenneth Dubeke]

6 hours ago, Leveins Battalion said:

If signing players like Elliot Frear is the level of our ambition even in the Championship than I am afraid Robbie is going to struggle to win over the doubters.(No idea if its even true btw)just hypothetically. 

 

This type of signing reminds me of Hibs in 2012,older,journeymen,with no sell on value and ultimately only cost the club in wages.

 

Now I get when JJ was here at 1st he plugged gaps with Alan Lawrence,Darren Beckford etc but we have to actively be going for the best young Scottish players.The Ali McCanns,Shanklands,Ross Stewart's etc.We need to start spending on players.

 

Until we get back to this type of young,ambitious players on an upward trajectory then we are going to continue on this downward spiral that seem bottomless just now imo.

 

Rather than sign 3 average squad fillers I'd rather we signed 1 quality midfielder/winger.

Then build a team over 2/3 seasons.

Spending is a pipe dream. We have a 4 million hole in income

 

We should be perfectly positioned to be signing the best players from our competitors. Instead we're unbelievably in the Championship 

 

Watching Hamilton on Sunday I could've cried. Worst squad of players I've seen in Premier Division. We finished below them 

 

We are in the market we appear to be in due to problems of our own creation 

[Agentjambo]

Just now, Kenneth Dubeke said:

Spending is a pipe dream. We have a 4 million hole in income

 

We should be perfectly positioned to be signing the best players from our competitors. Instead we're unbelievably in the Championship 

 

Watching Hamilton on Sunday I could've cried. Worst squad of players I've seen in Premier Division. We finished below them 

 

We are in the market we appear to be in due to problems of our own creation 

Sure we didn't create covid... Maybe your getting us mixed up with bat eaters. 

[Scottie Wanshot.]

I thought every player starting training was going to be given a chance to prove himself, training only started yesterday, so Why's Bobby Burns going to another club, he obviously wasn't given a chance to prove himself. ??????

[TheBigO]

1 minute ago, Scottie Wanshot. said:

I thought every player starting training was going to be given a chance to prove himself, training only started yesterday, so Why's Bobby Burns going to another club, he obviously wasn't given a chance to prove himself. ??????

Is it a problem?

[Scottie Wanshot.]

Just now, TheBigO said:

Is it a problem?

well every player was supposed to be given a chance 

[Kenneth Dubeke]

3 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Sure we didn't create covid... Maybe your getting us mixed up with bat eaters. 

Our results and performances from League Cup semi final against Celtic until season was called are indefensible. To go a period if 18 months picking up less points than every other team is why we're in the Championship 

 

Our fans need to focus on how that could've possibly happened. Blaming other clubs and authorities doesn't address why we've been so bad 

 

Maybe we don't want to look at things critically 

[Everybody Loves Baz!]

3 minutes ago, Kenneth Dubeke said:

Our results and performances from League Cup semi final against Celtic until season was called are indefensible. To go a period if 18 months picking up less points than every other team is why we're in the Championship 

 

Our fans need to focus on how that could've possibly happened. Blaming other clubs and authorities doesn't address why we've been so bad 

 

Maybe we don't want to look at things critically 

No, it looks as though you've done well enough in your first 6 posts.

We get it, you don't like our signing history from the last few years.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Everybody Loves Baz!

[Kenneth Dubeke]

1 minute ago, Everybody Loves Baz! said:

No, it looks as though you've done well enough in your first 6 posts.

We get it, you don't like our signing history from the last few years.

I'm embarrassed watching Ross Callachan playing for Hamilton Accies in top league knowing they were better than us for last 18 months 

 

Every Hearts fan should be 

[Pasquale for King]

20 minutes ago, jambocub said:

Morrison is already away is he not?

No

[Pasquale for King]

26 minutes ago, ericb said:

Yes, probably harsh on those two, but the squad is bloated. Whatever thoughts are on Moore and Henderson, they have just been given contracts, so are staying. So two from Moore/Henderson/Morrison/Macdonald/Walker have to go, as they are all pretty much of the same mould, particularly if RN is looking at even more wide men.

We do have a lot of players in these positions, all under contract though so it’s not easy to get rid of anyone at this time if clubs aren’t signing players. I think it’s more likely to be experienced guys who have a semblance of value that are likely to go. Our squad will hopefully look vastly different come October, a lot leaner in all aspects.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[Rick Sanchez]

Giving everyone a chance is just a new manager soundbite. I could have been given the job and I'd have gave JJ a list of atleast 10 to punt.

 

Some don't deserve another chance, although Burns admittedly isn't one of them. He did look like he was running in treacle though and isn't really certain on his position.

[Kenneth Dubeke]

9 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

We do have a lot of players in these positions, all under contract though so it’s not easy to get rid of anyone at this time if clubs aren’t signing players. I think it’s more likely to be experienced guys who have a semblance of value that are likely to go. Our squad will hopefully look vastly different come October, a lot leaner in all aspects.

Need to cut the squad back significantly as you rightly highlight 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Probably his level

130 appearances in English championship and Scottish Premiership over last five seasons suggests he has found his level. 21 caps over the same period. Think we just haven’t seen the best of him due to his injury. 

[Lucille's Thirsty]

13 minutes ago, Kenneth Dubeke said:

I'm embarrassed watching Ross Callachan playing for Hamilton Accies in top league knowing they were better than us for last 18 months 

 

Every Hearts fan should be 

I agree, we’ve slept walked into the championship, I’m embarrassed at the situation most of us are, we were too busy rightly fighting an injustice to care about how far we’ve fallen, we should with our resources sleep walking into top 4 in premier at least each season, I’m hoping a year in championship is a sort of cleanse of all departments in our club. Get back up at first attempt. Let Robbie crack on with it. We’ve went downhill since he left, hopefully he is the man to get us back to where he left us. 

[soonbe110]

35 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

We can take our time for once re any signings...of course within reason

 

The added 'bonus' is the introduction of wage caps in the English lower leagues and there will be more players than ever available with some at reasonable fees given Covid

 

Time to try and move on those who we want to go and those who want to go.

 

There are a few we could release/move on with little or no impact to the squad and I'd rather we went for youngsters with potential as signings as well us trying those already with us in the Championship...this is the ideal time to truly blood them for we will have at least 20/22 players who are more than good enough to get us promoted

Properly motivated and coached I doubt we need any new players in to go up but managers will always want more and to bring in 'their own' 

 

Of course sales/injuries may impact upon the squad and that needs to be addressed should that happen

Wage caps in leagues 1&2 down south come into force (if formally approved) for season 21/22. This coming season is the one where ambitious club owners will be pushing the boat out to get promotion out of league 1 and 2 before the caps come into effect. The caps will really change their squad quality in 12 months time compared to today. We will pick up players next summer but not this summer. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

 

38 minutes ago, Kenneth Dubeke said:

Spending is a pipe dream. We have a 4 million hole in income

 

We should be perfectly positioned to be signing the best players from our competitors. Instead we're unbelievably in the Championship 

 

Watching Hamilton on Sunday I could've cried. Worst squad of players I've seen in Premier Division. We finished below them 

 

We are in the market we appear to be in due to problems of our own creation 

 

No we didn't. We are where we are because of the pandemic. That's why we're in the Championship - a direct result of a vote by other teams. You can't say for sure we wouldn't have got enough points to escape relegation with 24 to play for. Had lockdown happened a week or so earlier (when it apparently should have) Hamilton would have been bottom.

Edited August 4, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Kenneth Dubeke]

1 minute ago, Lucille's Thirsty said:

I agree, we’ve slept walked into the championship, I’m embarrassed at the situation most of us are, we were too busy rightly fighting an injustice to care about how far we’ve fallen, we should with our resources sleep walking into top 4 in premier at least each season, I’m hoping a year in championship is a sort of cleanse of all departments in our club. Get back up at first attempt. Let Robbie crack on with it. We’ve went downhill since he left, hopefully he is the man to get us back to where he left us. 

The signs were there. We chose to ignore them. When did we last finish behind Hibs 3 years in a row

 

I thought after relegation that followed relegation that we would never witness such indignity again. Sadly 6 years later its gone full circle. The money that has flowed through the club in that 6 year period compared to Livingston,  Hamilton et al would be horrendous to visualise 

 

Since the inception of the Premier Division concept in 1975, we along with Dunfermline are the second joint most relegated side in that period 

 

Shocking 

[Bazzas right boot]

On 02/08/2020 at 22:32, Leveins Battalion said:

A team of

 

Gordon  - just signed 

Smith-- no issue

Souttar - Injured for large parts 

Berra- had 1 long term Injury

Hickey-- no issue 

Walker-no issue

Lee- out on loan

Haring--Injured

Clare-- taken time to adjust 

Boyce signed in jan

Naismith-- injured 

 

Should be  challenging at the top end of the Premiership imo.

 

Shit managers has got us here aswell as some of our signings.

 

Add in Injuries to Morrison, Halkett, white, Brandon, you can see part of the problem as well. 

Even the guys like Hickey and Smith had short spells injured. 

 

We need to sign players who can play from the off and not sign more guys with a history of Injuries. 

[Kenneth Dubeke]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

No we didn't. We are where we are because of the pandemic. That's why we're in the Championship - a direct result of a vote by other teams. You can't say for sure we wouldn't have got enough points to escape relegation with 24 to play for.

We are where we are because we picked up less points than every other club over 30 games. That sequence extends to a 18 month period. That should never have happened. Failure to act and correct a downward trajectory has proved catastrophic 

 

That is the real damage and it was completely self inflicted 

[Uncle Buck]

It’s harsh on Burns but we have Hickey, Garuccio and White. There’s really no need for 4 left backs. There’s not really much need for 3 actually.

[Bazzas right boot]

2 minutes ago, Kenneth Dubeke said:

The signs were there. We chose to ignore them. When did we last finish behind Hibs 3 years in a row

 

I thought after relegation that followed relegation that we would never witness such indignity again. Sadly 6 years later its gone full circle. The money that has flowed through the club in that 6 year period compared to Livingston,  Hamilton et al would be horrendous to visualise 

 

Since the inception of the Premier Division concept in 1975, we along with Dunfermline are the second joint most relegated side in that period 

 

Shocking 

 

Shocking, in which way?

 

It's not shocking 

1 relegation due to admin. 

This one was due to a club vote. 

 

2nd most relegated side means nothing, Utd spent 3/4 seasons down and hibs 3.

You could be relegated once and stay down for 30 years, that is a irrelevant point. 

 

We sometimes go down... It's in our song. 

 

No one will be shocked. 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 minutes ago, Kenneth Dubeke said:

We are where we are because we picked up less points than every other club over 30 games. That sequence extends to a 18 month period. That should never have happened. Failure to act and correct a downward trajectory has proved catastrophic 

 

That is the real damage and it was completely self inflicted 

 

We all know what happened mate. Why are you telling us again? We had a catastrophic injury crisis that started 18 months ago (could the two things be related?) and ended up in a tailspin with a squad and manager(s) unsuited to reversing it. I've seen that happen with teams like Aberdeen, Hibs and D Utd. Ultimately though seasons don't last 30 games and we had 24 points to play for. I would have fancied our chances of staying up 4 pts behind with just 2 games to play never mind 8. It was self-inflicted (aside for the injuries) that we were bottom at 30 games. it was no self-inflicted that we ended up in the championship after 30 games.

Edited August 4, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Kenneth Dubeke]

16 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Shocking, in which way?

 

It's not shocking 

1 relegation due to admin. 

This one was due to a club vote. 

 

2nd most relegated side means nothing, Utd spent 3/4 seasons down and hibs 3.

You could be relegated once and stay down for 30 years, that is a irrelevant point. 

 

We sometimes go down... It's in our song. 

 

No one will be shocked. 

 

5 relegations in a period where Aberdern have had none. More relegations than Hibs 

 

Hibs spent three years in Championship and then finished ahead of us each of three years following their promotion 

 

The lack of any progress since we walked the Championship is a real concern. That wasn't caused by other clubs voting of by complicit authorities.  That was caused by dreadful decision making despite having far greater resources than vast majority of the team in the league.  Hibs included 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Kenneth Dubeke
Typo

[Bazzas right boot]

5 minutes ago, Kenneth Dubeke said:

5 relegations in a period where Aberdern have had none. More relegations than Hibs 

 

Hibs spent three years in Championship and then finished ahead of us each of three years following their promotion 

 

The lack of any progress since we walked the Championship is a real concern. That wasn't caused by other clubs voting of by complicit authorities.  That was caused by dreadful decision making despite having far greater resources than vast majority of the team in the league.  Hibs included 

 

Tottally different point to you being shocked and the concern about the number of times we've been relegated as you stated originally, and Tbh well of topic. 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Smith's right boot

[CMc]

12 minutes ago, Kenneth Dubeke said:

5 relegations in a period where Aberdern have had none.

Because the league changed the rules to keep Aberdeen in. 

 

Unlike when they changed the rules to screw us. Twice. 

Edited August 4, 2020 by CMc

[Whatever]

You need to change the tone and sentence structure rather than simply omitting to put a full stop at the end of sentences, Spencer.
 

Obvious cat is obvious.

[Dia Liom]

11 minutes ago, Kenneth Dubeke said:

5 relegations in a period where Aberdern have had none. More relegations than Hibs 

 

Hibs spent three years in Championship and then finished ahead of us each of three years following their promotion 

 

The lack of any progress since we walked the Championship is a real concern. That wasn't caused by other clubs voting of by complicit authorities.  That was caused by dreadful decision making despite having far greater resources than vast majority of the team in the league.  Hibs included 

 

Finishing 3rd in the premiership wasn't progress on winning the championship ? 

[GinRummy]

7 minutes ago, Kenneth Dubeke said:

5 relegations in a period where Aberdern have had none. More relegations than Hibs 

 

Hibs spent three years in Championship and then finished ahead of us each of three years following their promotion 

 

The lack of any progress since we walked the Championship is a real concern. That wasn't caused by other clubs voting of by complicit authorities.  That was caused by dreadful decision making despite having far greater resources than vast majority of the team in the league.  Hibs included 

 

 

The relegation chat just makes you look daft. We’ve been relegated once after a points deduction and voted to be demoted once since 1983. So twice but never on a level playing field over a full season in 37 years. Pure hibs chat the relegation pish. 
 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

19 minutes ago, Kenneth Dubeke said:

5 relegations in a period where Aberdern have had none. More relegations than Hibs 

 

Hibs spent three years in Championship and then finished ahead of us each of three years following their promotion 

 

The lack of any progress since we walked the Championship is a real concern. That wasn't caused by other clubs voting of by complicit authorities.  That was caused by dreadful decision making despite having far greater resources than vast majority of the team in the league.  Hibs included 

 

You might want to check Aberdeen's league positions pre-Mcinnes - they finished around 8th-10/11th about 5 or 6 years in a row. As for Hibs, they had a 10 year decline culminating in relegation then took 3 years to get back up.

 

Since the championship win we had another good season and a half, then a bad half season. Then a meh season. Then a great start to the following season with rebuilt team, then a slide directly brought on by crippling injuries to all our best players, something that happened at the start of 19/20 as well. Classic rollercoaster Hearts where the highs were just less high and lows (or last seasons's low, was much lower). Feel free to bemoan our form etc but at least acknowledge the context.

 

You keep mentioning Hibs like they're doing everything right. They finished 7th last season with a very large budget and none of our injuries. They were in real danger of finishing bottom 6 and being dragged into the relegation battle, if one had been allowed to happen.

Edited August 4, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Ainsley Harriott]

44 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

130 appearances in English championship and Scottish Premiership over last five seasons suggests he has found his level. 21 caps over the same period. Think we just haven’t seen the best of him due to his injury. 

And only 13 goals from his time in the championship. His stats for a striker are really poor since he left Peterborough.

[vegas-voss]

Our squad was on the whole good enough for at least top 6 in the top flight.The fact it wasn't has to come down to poor management but  also the players own application.Then of course our usual mass injuries.Lets hope Robbie can bring some feel goid factor to these guys and they hit the ground running cause there us very little fight when things are not going smooth with them. 

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

And only 13 goals from his time in the championship. His stats for a striker are really poor since he left Peterborough.

He’ll be fine in the Scottish championship though. You’ve surely got to concede that. It’s a discussion for after next season of he stays. 

[Leveins Battalion]

 

 

Everyone is aware where the club has underperfomed the last 4 years,removing Craig Levein was the single and most important decision made.

 

However what we need now is a clear indication of what the clubs plans are,appointing Robbie is all fine and well but unless we get that support network around him regarding his own coaching team and scouting staff etc then we are all just 2nd guesssing.I'd imagine getting in McCulloch and Forrest in has formed the most important talks so far.

 

Bringing in JJ to advise is a good move however we really need to look long term as to what we are going to do regarding scouting/signing youths and 1st team players.

[Kenneth Dubeke]

6 minutes ago, Dia Liom said:

 

Finishing 3rd in the premiership wasn't progress on winning the championship ? 

3rd in a league minus Hibs and Rangers.  Both have finished above us in every year since 

 

That's difficult to pass off as progress 

[Hungry hippo]

1 hour ago, ericb said:

Yes, probably harsh on those two, but the squad is bloated. Whatever thoughts are on Moore and Henderson, they have just been given contracts, so are staying. So two from Moore/Henderson/Morrison/Macdonald/Walker have to go, as they are all pretty much of the same mould, particularly if RN is looking at even more wide men.

 

I expect one to go and one on loan. Guessing Morrison to be freed and Macdonald on loan. The wide players also need to compete with Clare for a position in addition to potentially two new signings.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Kenneth Dubeke said:

3rd in a league minus Hibs and Rangers.  Both have finished above us in every year since 

 

That's difficult to pass off as progress 

 

Because it's not true.

[GinRummy]

Just now, Kenneth Dubeke said:

3rd in a league minus Hibs and Rangers.  Both have finished above us in every year since 

 

That's difficult to pass off as progress 

He didn’t say it was progress since then, you suggested no progress since the return from the championship. 

[Kenneth Dubeke]

Just now, GinRummy said:

He didn’t say it was progress since then, you suggested no progress since the return from the championship. 

I don't think we have made progress.  Third in a crap league then behind the two clubs we smashed in the Championship since their respective promotions 

 

The 3 years under Levein, culminating in Stendel, are difficult to process.  So many advantages over majority of competition culminating in such spectacular failure. Levein still believes Budge was too hasty in sacking him!

 

Back where we started under Budge 6 years on. How can that seriously be considered as anything other than failure 

[GinRummy]

Just now, Kenneth Dubeke said:

I don't think we have made progress.  Third in a crap league then behind the two clubs we smashed in the Championship since their respective promotions 

 

The 3 years under Levein, culminating in Stendel, are difficult to process.  So many advantages over majority of competition culminating in such spectacular failure. Levein still believes Budge was too hasty in sacking him!

 

Back where we started under Budge 6 years on. How can that seriously be considered as anything other than failure 

I didn’t say it wasn’t failure. You can paint it however you want but winning the championship then finishing third is progress. If you don’t think that it’s progress then you’re wrong. The problems came after that. 

[August Landmesser]

15 minutes ago, Kenneth Dubeke said:

3rd in a league minus Hibs and Rangers.  Both have finished above us in every year since 

 

That's difficult to pass off as progress 

You're certainly making an impression with your first 18 posts.

 

Welcome (back).

[Adam_the_legend]

56 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

No we didn't. We are where we are because of the pandemic. That's why we're in the Championship - a direct result of a vote by other teams. You can't say for sure we wouldn't have got enough points to escape relegation with 24 to play for. Had lockdown happened a week or so earlier (when it apparently should have) Hamilton would have been bottom.

You’re right, we were fantastic last season, high tempo free flowing football that was a joy to watch...oh wait. Fair enough, we don’t know for certain we would’ve been relegated but let’s not kid ourselves how terrible the team was. Denial is not going to help us get back to being a top 4 team...

[WASTREL]

1 hour ago, Scottie Wanshot. said:

I thought every player starting training was going to be given a chance to prove himself, training only started yesterday, so Why's Bobby Burns going to another club, he obviously wasn't given a chance to prove himself. ??????

Or we got an offer that was good for the player and us

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

You’re right, we were fantastic last season, high tempo free flowing football that was a joy to watch...oh wait. Fair enough, we don’t know for certain we would’ve been relegated but let’s not kid ourselves how terrible the team was. Denial is not going to help us get back to being a top 4 team...

 

Not denying that. Saying we could have stayed up and I wouldn't have bet against us doing it. Ultimately though we were relegated because of the pandemic, just like Hamilton or another team escaped a play-off because of it and Raith were promoted because of it. I'm pretty sure if we'd known a pandemic was coming we'd have appointed a new manager much sooner!

[Kenneth Dubeke]

7 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Not denying that. Saying we could have stayed up and I wouldn't have bet against us doing it. Ultimately though we were relegated because of the pandemic, just like Hamilton or another team escaped a play-off because of it and Raith were promoted because of it. I'm pretty sure if we'd known a pandemic was coming we'd have appointed a new manager much sooner!

I'm afraid you are in denial my friend 

 

 

[Scottie Wanshot.]

10 minutes ago, Disco Ball said:

Or we got an offer that was good for the player and us

couldn't imagine getting much money for him. ???

[upgotheheads]

2 hours ago, ericb said:

Yes, probably harsh on those two, but the squad is bloated. Whatever thoughts are on Moore and Henderson, they have just been given contracts, so are staying. So two from Moore/Henderson/Morrison/Macdonald/Walker have to go, as they are all pretty much of the same mould, particularly if RN is looking at even more wide men.

Macdonald is what, 18? Looked like an outstanding prospect , what's happened to him?0