Levein and MacPhee left on May 31st ( updated )

[jambogemz]

All if, but and maybe now!!

 

One things for sure, we should have probably replaced him short term with someone who knew the players and league then gone for someone like Daniel Stendel. 

 

I believe that would have saved our ass. 

 

 

[Threebs]

History

[DMac-89]

We won about 6 games in a year, two of them against lower league opposition. Pep would struggle to get a tune out of those gormless players, all signed by him.

[Boyces beard]

Natural order i guess!

[Beast Boy]

9 minutes ago, DMac-89 said:

We won about 6 games in a year, two of them against lower league opposition. Pep would struggle to get a tune out of those gormless players, all signed by him.

Conversely however, none of them were signed from clubs that Pep had managed, yet the managers of the teams they came from prior to Hearts managed to get tunes out of almost all of them?

 

Damour
Whelan

Berra

Naismith

 

All very good players for their previous clubs, but all struggled under the tail end of Levein’s tenure, MacPhee in the interim, and Stendel’s early tenure.

 

To me that suggests it wasn’t completely all down to the players’ ability, nor the managers ability. Something else? The wage structure with high basic and low incentive based bonuses? The coaches? Their connection to the club?

 

Something not right that hasn’t been easy to identify and resolve.

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Special Officer Doofy

[Kiwidoug]

You can't re-write history Craig.  The 5-0 loss to Livingston should have been the final straw after years of repeated turgid performances.  You could have resigned with dignity at that point.  You chose not to.

[GinRummy]

5 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Conversely however, none of them were signed from clubs that Pep had managed, yet the managers of the teams they came from prior to Hearts managed to get tunes out of almost all of them?

 

Damour
Whelan

Berra

Naismith

 

All very good players for their previous clubs, but all struggled under the tail end of Levein’s tenure, MacPhee in the interim, and Stendel’s early tenure.

 

To me that suggests it wasn’t completely all down to the players’ ability, nor the managers ability. Something else? The wage structure with high basic and low incentive based bonuses? The coaches? Their connection to the club?

 

Something not right that hasn’t been easy to identify and resolve.

 

Sometimes you just need to pull things apart and start all over again. 

[kila]

2 minutes ago, jambogemz said:

All if, but and maybe now!!

 

One things for sure, we should have probably replaced him short term with someone who knew the players and league then gone for someone like Daniel Stendel. 

 

I believe that would have saved our ass. 

 

I'm in two minds whether someone who knew the league would've done any better.

 

The squad was so unbalanced. Whelan stopped trying soon after the Ireland qualifier in October, and his arrangement was training at home and coming up for the game wasn't it? Then there was Berra who was becoming a shadow of his former self despite his effort and commitment plus the useless goalkeepers and then the salaries of all the players who had a higher base level rather than making them earn it from win bonuses etc.

 

The thing needed ripped apart and rebuilt, but trying to do that in January with Budge's 1 in 1 out was just inviting issues.

 

Stendel's high back line (especially on a shorter Tynecastle pitch) and persistence with Pereira cost us points no doubt but then we started scoring more goals under him too and came from behind to win.

 

I'd hud on with your last line until Wednesday though...

 

[micole]

4 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

You can't re-write history Craig.  The 5-0 loss to Livingston should have been the final straw after years of repeated turgid performances.  You could have resigned with dignity at that point.  You chose not to.

That is where I am, heads should have rolled after that result, namely Mr Levein's followed by McPhee and the rest.

Edited June 8, 2020 by micole

[The Gorgie]

The run he had us on of something ridiculous like 4 league wins in 2019 would suggest he is talking shite.

[Beast Boy]

Just now, GinRummy said:

Sometimes you just need to pull things apart and start all over again. 

Thing is, that worked when Neilson did it to Locke’s side.

 

It never worked when Cathro did it to Neilson’s side.

 

It worked eventually when Levein did it to Cathro’s side.

 

Stendel hasn’t really had much chance to rip up Levein’s side yet.

 

My worry is that when/if he/someone else does, nothing much changes and we are still left with players we know have the ability, but just won’t perform. It’s infuriating.

 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

52 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Unofficial as in officially being called the Director of Football and combining the two jobs. I don’t if you’ve listened to it but he said he would’ve given up the DoF job to be manager, which doesn’t indicate he preferred being the DoF. He did take the blame for Cathro and said that he didn’t quite have the tools to manage a team, without a hint of irony too.

 

I'm not sure he was officially DoF at D Utd but he did some DoF type work while there. Haven't listened yet - not a Sportsound fan these days. Surprised at the DoF comment. Sure I read he said he was in his ideal job in his early days as DoF at Hearts.

[Pasquale for King]

35 minutes ago, Dsjambo said:

No surprise to hear Levein saying we would have been further up the league if he hadn’t been sacked.

Is he right?

Given that we only won three more league games after he was (rightly) sacked, he could hardly have done 

any worse or could he?

Surely the year of poor results leading up to his sacking would show he’s wrong. Never his fault though.

[Greedy Jambo]

4 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Thing is, that worked when Neilson did it to Locke’s side.

 

It never worked when Cathro did it to Neilson’s side.

 

It worked eventually when Levein did it to Cathro’s side.

 

Stendel hasn’t really had much chance to rip up Levein’s side yet.

 

My worry is that when/if he/someone else does, nothing much changes and we are still left with players we know have the ability, but just won’t perform. It’s infuriating.

 

 

 

Get Tommy Wright in and stop ****ing about. 

[Psychedelicropcircle]

Aunty

 

boz

 

 

uncle

 

 

 

thread closed!

[Debut 4]

18 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Sometimes you just need to pull things apart and start all over again. 

Indeed.  There’s some who think CL and his team would’ve pulled us up eventually but I’m at a loss to think why?  We were well onto the slippery slope.

 

People think when change happens it’s like sprinkling magic dust , that only positive things can happen, but Stendel wasn’t inheriting a mid-table side who were underachieving, who were ready to blossom under a better manager and streak up the table 
 

We were mired. A disillusioned, under coached, uninspired squad stunted by months of negativity. There’s been shoots of encouragement under DS but the same old has been evident too.  We need a good change around. 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Debut 4

[Weakened Offender]

We probably would have scraped enough points to keep us off the bottom of the league however we wouldn't have beaten The Rangers in the cup. Doesn't matter anyway as he deserved to be sacked and should have resigned after the cup final. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Weakened Offender

[Horatio Caine]

Levein first TV interview since leaving is on The Nine tonight on the BBC Scotland channel.  Coming up.

[GinRummy]

4 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Indeed.  There’s some who think CL and his team would’ve pulled us up eventually but I’m at a loss to think why?  We were well onto the slippery slope.

 

People think when change happens it’s like sprinkling magic dust , that only positive things can happen, but Stendel wasn’t inheriting a mid-table side who were underachieving, who were ready to blossom under a better manager and streak up the table 
 

We were mired. A disillusioned, under coached, uninspired squad stunted by months of negativity. There’s been shoots of encouragement under DS but the same old has been evident too.  We need a good change around. 

 

 

Good post. Sums things up well. 

[Cruyff]

I don't think we'd have finished near top 6. So it wouldn't have been good enough anyway.

 

I think he'd have went with a back 5, deep line and just hoofed it up the park to Uche for 90 minutes scraping draws and the odd win. So perhaps we would have avoided relegation. It's all ifs, buts and maybes. 

 

The fans would haved just deserted Tynecastle and would have hated him even more if he had stayed on and did that. 

[Harry Potter]

19 minutes ago, Mr 3 Putt said:

The run he had us on of something ridiculous like 4 league wins in 2019 would suggest he is talking shite.

[GinRummy]

16 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Thing is, that worked when Neilson did it to Locke’s side.

 

It never worked when Cathro did it to Neilson’s side.

 

It worked eventually when Levein did it to Cathro’s side.

 

Stendel hasn’t really had much chance to rip up Levein’s side yet.

 

My worry is that when/if he/someone else does, nothing much changes and we are still left with players we know have the ability, but just won’t perform. It’s infuriating.

 

 

You find something that works and stick to it I suppose. Things were working well enough till Cathro. Maybe he wanted to change things too quickly, as well as his other faults. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I don't think we'd have finished near top 6. So it wouldn't have been good enough anyway.

 

I think he'd have went with a back 5, deep line and just hoofed it up the park to Uche for 90 minutes scraping draws and the odd win. So perhaps we would have avoided relegation. It's all ifs, buts and maybes. 

 

The fans would haved just deserted Tynecastle and would have hated him even more if he had stayed on and did that. 

 

Honestly, when they were fit I think he would have played Naismith, Washington/Walker and Boyce (a player he tried to sign before) up top and gone for it. I was disappointed Stendel didn't do that. The myth of Levein being a defensive minded manager is exactly that - a myth. He was a pragmatic manager and he would have known that draws away were not what was needed in a relegation fight. Or maybe not. He had lost some what made him a good manager so maybe he wouldn't have turned things around. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Jodami]

His hubris is just stunning. Barely a week after getting paid off he is back in the public domain. A delusional, classless windbag, I can only hope he get involved with Raith and takes them into administration. 

[Vlad Magic]

52 minutes ago, Dsjambo said:

No surprise to hear Levein saying we would have been further up the league if he hadn’t been sacked.

Is he right?

Given that we only won three more league games after he was (rightly) sacked, he could hardly have done 

any worse or could he?

Your point is what exactly?

[Coco]

I was hugely disappointed he came back to the club, think that the Board missed numerous chances to fire him, think that the true scale of the damage he has done to the club has yet to be fully felt.  But I don't think he could have done so poorly as Stendel.

[Coco]

We've had Daly and now Levein.  But when will MacPhee take his turn in the I'm not to blame game?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

23 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Thing is, that worked when Neilson did it to Locke’s side.

 

It never worked when Cathro did it to Neilson’s side.

 

It worked eventually when Levein did it to Cathro’s side.

 

Stendel hasn’t really had much chance to rip up Levein’s side yet.

 

My worry is that when/if he/someone else does, nothing much changes and we are still left with players we know have the ability, but just won’t perform. It’s infuriating.

 

 

 

Difference is Cathro did it when it didn't need to be done. He needed to build on Neilson's squad not rebuild it. Neilson and Levein both did it out of necessity. It worked the summers before 14/15, 15/16 and 18/19 (until the injuries). I feel we ended up with more signings in 19/20 because of the fear of more injury problems. He maybe didn't want to be left short in some areas like the previous season so we added Meshino, Whelan, Damour and others when maybe trying youngsters would have been better.

[The Real Maroonblood]

11 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Honestly, when they were fit I think he would have played Naismith, Washington/Walker and Boyce (a player he tried to sign before) up top and gone for it. I was disappointed Stendel didn't do that. The myth of Levein being a defensive minded manager is exactly that - a myth. He was a pragmatic manager and he would have known that draws away were not what was needed in a relegation fight. Or maybe not. He had lost some what made him a good manager so maybe he wouldn't have turned things around. 

Still posting pish.

 

[Randy Marsh]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah I doubt if any Hearts fans listening thought that was remotely funny.

Absolutely howling patter.  A bit like when he said he didn't like Spain.  An arrogant **** of a man.   Hope he never sets foot in Tynecastle again.  Have to say the worst part of the interview was when Levein admitted that Budge asked him for his thoughts on his replacement.  That sums this whole mess up over the last few years.  Embarrassing stuff. 

[Greedy Jambo]

4 minutes ago, Coco said:

We've had Daly and now Levein.  But when will MacPhee take his turn in the I'm not to blame game?

 

What do Daly, Levein and MacPhee all have in common? 

 

Ann Budge. 

[Gordon Ramsay]

Should have been gone after 5-0 Livi. Man's an anus. 

[The Future's Maroon]

8 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

Your point is what exactly?

Reekin that is what it was imo 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Thomaso]

25 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Surely the year of poor results leading up to his sacking would show he’s wrong. Never his fault though.

Correct! Good to see his massive ego is still intact! 😏

[steven_mck]

He was just too demanding on himself trying to do two jobs at the same time. In-fact, I don't think anybody would have been capable of doing both jobs really well. I think him and Ann Budge now realise that and hold their hands up. When there were problems with the teams on-field performances (and results), he wasn't able to put all his focus and energies into fixing the problems.

[Beast Boy]

10 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

You find something that works and stick to it I suppose. Things were working well enough till Cathro. Maybe he wanted to change things too quickly, as well as his other faults. 

I think that was the case. His statement about needing players who play a certain way showed that. Good players too, in many cases, as they proved before coming here and in some cases after they left. My point is, in many cases our failed have been good players with good ability, they just haven’t shown it for us as regularly as was required. I’d like us to identify what that is the case, to prevent any more disasters. Even Cathro, he’s was, is, and will continue to be a very highly rated and sought after coach, despite his disaster here as manager. I guess all I’m trying to get at, is I want us to stop having to rip everything up and starting again soon. Find something that works and stick with it for a season or two so we get stability with success.

 

I think a lot of our problems have been down to two main issues:

 

1) The coaches.

 

2) The high basic and low incentive bonuses.

 

Just a guess though. 

[Glamorgan Jambo]

I listened to the full interview and I’d suggest people do this rather than count on newspaper reports. It was pretty obvious that he was only very marginally involved in the recruitment of Stendel. I guess it suits his narrative about the players being bottlers how things transpired later in the season.

 

The biggest let down about his tenure both as manager and DOF was the dreadful recruitment. Signing injury prone players. Overhyping some signings to the extent they were under unnecessary and unhelpful pressure. Signing guys coming back from career threatening injuries. Not signing a goalkeeper. Ending up with a bloated and expensive squad that gave dreadful value for money. Listening to all his words about how we were going to recruit and then seeing what actually happened was depressing. 
 

and Ann not having a plan ready to roll when she finally took the decision to launch him is a black mark against her.

 

Anyway he’s gone and his round of interviews is all about him getting another job. It’ll either be at one of the Fife clubs or some sort of background role at a bigger club. He gets on very well with Lennon but I’m fairly sure Lennon hasn’t sufficient clout to get him in at Celtic.

[Beni]

5 minutes ago, Randy Marsh said:

Absolutely howling patter.  A bit like when he said he didn't like Spain.  An arrogant **** of a man.   Hope he never sets foot in Tynecastle again.  Have to say the worst part of the interview was when Levein admitted that Budge asked him for his thoughts on his replacement.  That sums this whole mess up over the last few years.  Embarrassing stuff. 

 

John Daly nap.

[Don Dan]

Sorry no way he would have turned things around. Stubborn to the end. 

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Up until the Cathro appointment, he did a good job. He messed up letting Cathro rip up Neilson's squad when he did and he wasn't really a DoF by the end. Trying to combine those roles was a big mistake. He did a good job at D Utd in an unofficial DoF kind of role. At Leicester he failed as manager but by all accounts did some good work behind the scenes that paid off later for them. I wish he'd stuck with that DoF role that he said he preferred to management anyhow and had just taken the reigns as manager as caretaker for at most half or one season.

What good work did he do behind the scenes at Leicester. I’m asking for one of my best pals who is a Leicester ST holder he told me Levein set the Club back years!

[OmiyaHearts]

48 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

You can't re-write history Craig.  The 5-0 loss to Livingston should have been the final straw after years of repeated turgid performances.  You could have resigned with dignity at that point.  You chose not to.

This. No Hearts manager should survive a result like that.

 

Those kind of results only happen when the players have lost belief in the manager.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

15 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Still posting pish.

 

 

Not really. He started 18/19 playing McLean, Naismith and Uche. He started 19/20 playing Walker, Washington, Uche and Naismith. When he had all his front men fit he went for the attacking line-up more often than not - usually from the start of games.

 

Stendel, by contrast, tended to start with a fairly cautious line-up then bring masses of forwards on at the end, like Jimmy Calderwood used to do with Killie way back when.

Edited June 8, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, martoon said:

"I don't know about going back to the club [to work]". 

 

Sent a chill up my spine. Does he actually think, or believe, that the door is still ajar. If he does believe it, why? 

 

The notion, too, that he intends to keep an eye the young players doesn't sit well either. 

 

Said it before, but I fear we'll never be rid of Levein while Budge is in charge. Although I accept that she's done some great stuff for Hearts and may well do so again regarding recon. 

His massive ego refuses to let him acknowledge he did anything wrong! 
He is as welcome as a fart in a space suit at Tynecastle!

[kila]

13 minutes ago, Randy Marsh said:

Absolutely howling patter.  A bit like when he said he didn't like Spain.  An arrogant **** of a man.   Hope he never sets foot in Tynecastle again.  Have to say the worst part of the interview was when Levein admitted that Budge asked him for his thoughts on his replacement.  That sums this whole mess up over the last few years.  Embarrassing stuff. 

 

I wonder what Stendel's chances would've been had there not been a thread on this forum moments after Levein's sacking.

 

[NANOJAMBO]

2 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

This. No Hearts manager should survive a result like that.

 

Those kind of results only happen when the players have lost belief in the manager.

CL never walked away from a pay cheque in his life although he did once walk out on Hearts - when it suited him. 

He should have been binned immediately after the game. 

He wasn't just a failure : he was a disaster. 

[CJGJ]

2 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

Sorry no way he would have turned things around. Stubborn to the end. 

Whereas his successor has made a wonderful job since he took over

 

I think there were a few, perhaps even you, who told us he was the man

 

Still they will all now pretend 'it wasn't me' 

 

We will never know whether Levein would have kept us up but we were not bottom when he left

 

I hate the constant manager changing so if Stendel was to stay on then fine by me but pretending he has been any better than Levein is just not true

[Yoda]

23 minutes ago, Jodami said:

His hubris is just stunning. Barely a week after getting paid off he is back in the public domain. A delusional, classless windbag, I can only hope he get involved with Raith and takes them into administration. 

This.

 

Blaming players that weren't up to showing a bit leadership when required.  He signed the duds!

 

Remember Levein getting challenged at a shareholders meeting about signing duds.  Think it was after signing Conner Sammon.  He talked about signing players with the right attitude as well as improving the team.  He clearly lied then, considering the amount of p1sh that he signed after Sammon.

[Randy Marsh]

1 minute ago, kila said:

 

I wonder what Stendel's chances would've been had there not been a thread on this forum moments after Levein's sacking.

 

True.  Budge is so clueless she definately had a look at kickback to get some ideas.  Seen a thread on Stendel and thought yeah we'll go for him. 😂

[Class of 75]

3 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

We've been over this. He initially turned our form around that season, in the league, at Tynecastle, and in the cups and derbies and made some good signings. It was a fairly standard transition season. As we all know he started the next season brilliantly. After that there are people willing to give him some benefit of the doubt because of the injuries and some completely unwilling to do that.

Yes we have been over this but I am merely giving my opinion. The performances were poor as he was the man responsible for appointing his predecessor. The football was shocking, dull and absent of creativity. He got a good cup run against teams which any Hearts side should be beating and as for Hibs even Locke's relegation side beat them. Yes he fluked the start of the next season but relied heavily on injury prone Naismith and a defensive midfielder he signed as a centre half. I am unwilling to forget as he is solely responsible for the mess we are in wasting a unique opportunity to get us back to the top, an opportunity that many Hearts managers before him have not had. Failing to beat small teams like Hamilton and St Mirren and getting thumped by Livingston is not good enough and seeing these teams have better players is in my opinion embarrassing. His ego still thinks he can do no wrong. The man has no shame. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Class of 75

[NANOJAMBO]

5 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Whereas his successor has made a wonderful job since he took over

 

I think there were a few, perhaps even you, who told us he was the man

 

Still they will all now pretend 'it wasn't me' 

 

We will never know whether Levein would have kept us up but we were not bottom when he left

 

I hate the constant manager changing so if Stendel was to stay on then fine by me but pretending he has been any better than Levein is just not true

The thread is about CL.