SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Don Dan]

48 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

Very interesting!

 

If it’s correct our legal eagles will be on it. 

[TheBigO]

4 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Honestly, I believe we have so much unrealised potential as a club stemming back to decades of mismanagement. Budge getting the new stand sorted is a big first step and I hope when she steps down someone like James Anderson will step up to help us realise our potential. We're sitting in a city of nearly half a million (predicted to expand even further) in a stadium of 20,000. If the club can show a bit of ambition and give Edinburgh a club to really back then I think we could grow massively in the next 20 years. The Fringe for example is an absolute gift for marketing the club to tourists but how well have we really utilised this?

 

The foundation is such an important tool in marketing the club because Hearts are very much Edinburgh/Midlothian's club in the sense of ownership now and finding a way of communicating that to kids who would otherwise follow the old firm or just English football is so important. Are there not stats about season ticket holders that 40% of them are from outwith an EH post code or something (believe its been mentioned before on here, Foundation may have quoted it at one point)? So it seems there needs to be more effort put into tapping into such a large population  Its food for thought anyway. 

 

Its a fight I'm proud Ann has taken up. She's cut from a different cloth to those Scottish football are used to. Doing the unpopular like challenging the OF sectarianism/misbehaviour but also our own on that, it takes character. I don't think how rotten Scottish football actually is sits well with Budge and she's been handed a golden opportunity to try to hold them genuinely accountable for their actions. I'm glad she's done it and I don't think she's for turning with their weak attempts at intimidation.  Win or lose, its a fight worth seeing through. 

 

Good post. 

Yes

[Thomaso]

Here is more info

[yvonnejambo]

Here’s the full link, interesting links within the article too 

https://the4thofficial.net/2020/07/sfa-doesnt-have-a-leg-to-stand-as-their-own-articles-of-association-allows-hearts-partick-to-go-to-court/

[OldGorgie]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

This is exactly where I’m at

Just as well you are not on the arbitration panel.

[Kiwidoug]

Whatever the outcome of this fiasco, the two authorities are in disrepute.  They will know that as will every club regardless of their public stances and statements.

 

They will command no respect which I guess is the status quo in effect.

[5-1Jambo]

2 hours ago, CJGJ said:

SFA are alleging that Hearts and Partick broke the Articles of Association of the SFA by dragging SPFL to court. It seems the Compliance Officer of the SFA hit the two clubs with a notice of complaint for taking this matter to the Court of Session without first asking permission from the SFA board. This rule breach carries the ultimate threat of being kicked out of the game. In fact, check the image below.

Seems ominous, does it not? The media which were pushing this for so long have been reporting on this with bated breath. Infact, check this late-night article from yesterday on The Daily Record by Keith Jackson (apologies for linking to them). A Hampden source conveniently dropped this piece of info to Mr Jackson, “It’s obviously a sensitive issue but the SFA had no choice but to stick to the letter of the law where its own rule book is concerned.

“The fact that this matter has already been taken to the Court of Session is in itself a prima facie breach of the SFA articles of association. As awkward as the timing might be, the Compliance Officer was really left with no option but to be seen to be applying the rules.”

Now while the Record article to its credit talks about how Lord Clark questioned the legality of clubs being expelled for going to court, it falls far short while fact-checking this ludicrous claim. For the record yes, Lord Clark questioned the legality and wondered if this can be viewed as contrary to public policy and hence unlawful. You should read this article I did on Patreon where I dissected Lord Clark’s order. It was much more interesting than the MSM let on.

 

However, the Daily Record (or indeed any other MSM outlet I came across) failed to question the underlying reason why SFA cannot actually do this. Infact just going through the Articles of Association of the SFA would have helped them with this task. Here is what Article 99.15 of SFA Articles of Association says, “A member or an associated person may not take a Football Dispute to a court of law except with the prior approval of the Board. For the avoidance of doubt, this article 99.15 does not prevent a member or an associated person from raising proceedings for time bar purposes, subject to such proceedings being sisted at the earliest opportunity for resolution in accordance with this article 99.”

See how everyone is quoting the first part of Article 99.15 (or even 99.12) but not the second part. If you didn’t know any better, you would think someone had an agenda. So the SFA Articles of Association DOES NOT prevent Hearts and Partick Thistle from going to court after all if it is to raise proceedings for time bar purposes. So what is time bar purpose? Something that needs to be resolved before the claim period expires.

So starting a new season on August 1 is something which needed an immediate resolution for prima facie time bar purposes. It’s not as if Hearts would have been helped with an arbitration result in September. Only compensation would have been available to them then. Atleast with Lord Clark’s order, the arbitration matter has to be done in a timely manner. I am sure now the MSM can start asking SFA and SPFL those hard questions now. I wish I could say ‘ah-ha’, but this was not a gotcha investigation; just a plain reading would have led anyone to this conclusion.

Oh, and btw, even without this clause, SFA cannot bar anyone from going to court. In a previous Patreon article, I described how European Competition law forbids this. You can read it here. I hope you do.

Now, that you are aware, don’t fall for the tricks and half-truths. Ann Budge and Jacqui Low are absolutely in the right here. It is time the governing body of Scottish football faces the consequence of how they conducted the initial vote to finish the season on PPG with only 75% of the season done.

Great Post. Very good reading. 

[Maple Leaf]

3 hours ago, ducatiboy said:

I bought myself an 18yr old malt today, to either celebrate or commiserate, which will it be?🥃🇱🇻

 

If I was you, I'd try it a few times to make sure that it's in good shape for the celebration. 

[colinmaroon]

1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

The reason we have been charged is because we got Lord Clark to take it out of the hands of football arbitrators and into the hands of legal ones.

Let's be clear here. Initially we have challenged along with Partick Thistle or wrongful expulsions from our respective leagues. 

Due to the skullduggery of both the SPFL board and now the SFA, we are challenging the governance of Scottish football. 

Only the very stupid or ignorant cant see that the Scottish game is rotten to the core, but we along with Partick have upset the applecart, and put the cat amongst the pigeons. Bare in mind that the only club being attacked by the beaks and 95% of the mainstream media is Heart of Midlothian. Partick Thistle get mentions in passing.

Why? Because a strong Heart of Midlothian scares them and that goes all the way back to the championship winning season of 57-58.

No Celtic or Sevco team have come close to scoring 132 goals with 29 against in a 34 games league season and skooshing the league by 13pts in the days of 2pts for a win.

Funny how in the rest of the UK and Ireland that all governing bodies are headquartered in their capital cities, but not in Scotland. Along with their national stadiums too. That tells you everything about Scotland.

 

 

Not forgetting the lesser but significant achievement of leaving Sevco in our wake in the season that they were supposed to be returning to the Premiership.

 

 

[Section Q]

Just saw this, not sure if it's been posted......!

https://the4thofficial.net/2020/07/sfa-doesnt-have-a-leg-to-stand-as-their-own-articles-of-association-allows-hearts-partick-to-go-to-court/

[kila]

Nope that definitely hasn’t already been posted and even quoted on this page. 

[The Future's Maroon]

3 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

All my Hibs mates are thoroughly enjoying our position but unanimous in thinking it's unfair and none support the SPFL in this.

Surprisingly the few Hibs fans I converse with are of the same opinion, although having a chuckle at this they think it is wrong and unfair....who’d have thunk that?!

[1874robbo]

1 hour ago, Cruyff said:

If we win this, big party on the plaza to celebrate? 🤔 

A mass walk to Dundee 

[John Findlay]

9 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

A mass walk to Dundee 

A mass walk to Hampden, that's where the real enemy reside.

[Jamie3lb]

1 hour ago, 5-1Jambo said:

Great Post. Very good reading. 

4th official has no idea what time bar is in law. Some good points in the article, most of it is nonsense. 
 

Our claim is not time barred on 1 August 2020. 
 

don’t believe all that you read (irony is not lost on me posting this). 
 

let’s see what happens with arbitration and go from there. 

[Hungry hippo]

7 minutes ago, Jamie3lb said:

4th official has no idea what time bar is in law. Some good points in the article, most of it is nonsense. 
 

Our claim is not time barred on 1 August 2020. 
 

don’t believe all that you read (irony is not lost on me posting this). 
 

let’s see what happens with arbitration and go from there. 

 

Is it potentially time barred in your opinion?

[Maple Leaf]

1 hour ago, The Future's Maroon said:

Surprisingly the few Hibs fans I converse with are of the same opinion, although having a chuckle at this they think it is wrong and unfair....who’d have thunk that?!

 

If we win this, and I think that we will, let's see if those Hobos are still chuckling when they get a legal bill that tips their shitty wee team over the financial edge.

[Jammy T]

The time bar point may be a red herring IMO. Certain that is aimed at Prescription under Scots Law.

 

The start of the season wasn’t really a time bar situation in a legal sense.

 

The better point IMO is that the Article relates to football disputes and the ruling found that it wasn’t a football dispute.

 

Further, as a consequence of this there were points quite properly determined by the court before the arbitration commenced.

 

Then you have the general legal principle that penalty clauses are generally unenforceable 

 

Anyway although private I don’t believe we will not know or find out for certain when this starts

[Unknown user]

3 hours ago, JamboAl1965 said:

 

winning doesn't matter to me as much as being on the right side of the argument and not rolling over to these corrupt idiots

This

[niblick1874]

2 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

If I was you, I'd try it a few times to make sure that it's in good shape for the celebration. 

 

Get Frank on the job. 🙂

[Hackney Hearts]

5 hours ago, Jamboelite said:

 i feel we haven't really won a single round of any note in this boxing match and going into round 12 i cant see us landing a knockout.

 

This fight has hardly started though. To stick with your analogy, we're probably only at about Round 4. We've won two rounds: beating C3's plea for dismissal, and getting access to the documents. The result is still in the balance after the initial sparring, with the heavy hitting only now about to take effect.

 

The votes (and non-votes) prior to the CoS were just trash talk.

[David McCaig]

2 hours ago, Hackney Hearts said:

 

This fight has hardly started though. To stick with your analogy, we're probably only at about Round 4. We've won two rounds: beating C3's plea for dismissal, and getting access to the documents. The result is still in the balance after the initial sparring, with the heavy hitting only now about to take effect.

 

The votes (and non-votes) prior to the CoS were just trash talk.

And the fact that Dundee voted no, is the SPFLs glass jaw!!

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, The Future's Maroon said:

Surprisingly the few Hibs fans I converse with are of the same opinion, although having a chuckle at this they think it is wrong and unfair....who’d have thunk that?!

Same with all my Rangers and Celtic fans I know. They all say that a 14 Top division would have been fair for everyone. 

[rory78]

5 hours ago, Hackney Hearts said:

 

This fight has hardly started though. To stick with your analogy, we're probably only at about Round 4. We've won two rounds: beating C3's plea for dismissal, and getting access to the documents. The result is still in the balance after the initial sparring, with the heavy hitting only now about to take effect.

 

The votes (and non-votes) prior to the CoS were just trash talk.

Do you think so i don't see it like this - not sure they've got any heavy hitting blows to deliver but pretty sure the Dundee vote could be ours,thus far im seeing them in my mind wandering about the ring all mouthy with the majority of the fans while we size them up and pick them off blow by blow

[Dazo]

7 hours ago, Jammy T said:

The time bar point may be a red herring IMO. Certain that is aimed at Prescription under Scots Law.

 

The start of the season wasn’t really a time bar situation in a legal sense.

 

The better point IMO is that the Article relates to football disputes and the ruling found that it wasn’t a football dispute.

 

Further, as a consequence of this there were points quite properly determined by the court before the arbitration commenced.

 

Then you have the general legal principle that penalty clauses are generally unenforceable 

 

Anyway although private I don’t believe we will not know or find out for certain when this starts

Was it ruled it wasn’t a football dispute ? I though LC clearly said otherwise. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Dazo

[Deevers]

5 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Was it ruled it wasn’t a football dispute ? I though LC clearly said otherwise. 

It probably is - though I reckon the SFA won’t want to see all of this land up in the Court of Session where a judgement would be made on the legality of the SFAs rules. That would probably bring the blazers out in a cold sweat.  My own thoughts are that this particular aspect of Scottish footballs farce will end up with little or nothing actually happening. 

[Unknown user]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Same with all my Rangers and Celtic fans I know. They all say that a 14 Top division would have been fair for everyone. 

All my celtic neighbour can say is "well you shouldnae have finished last eh?" again and again.

Yes, we're planning to move.

[Beast Boy]

11 hours ago, JamboAl1965 said:

 

winning doesn't matter to me as much as being on the right side of the argument and not rolling over to these corrupt idiots

This, all day long.

[Beast Boy]

12 minutes ago, Smithee said:

All my celtic neighbour can say is "well you shouldnae have finished last eh?" again and again.

Yes, we're planning to move.

To which you reply, we didn’t. Nobody finished last, nor indeed first. 

[Clark Griswold]

1 minute ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

To which you reply, we didn’t. Nobody finished last, nor indeed first. 

[neilnunb]

https://www.fifetoday.co.uk/sport/football/raith-supporters-fundraising-walk-tannadice-reduced-advice-police-scotland-2914618

 

🤣

 

Reduced route?  No shit. Be done in half an hour. 🤣

[Seymour M Hersh]

29 minutes ago, Smithee said:

All my celtic neighbour can say is "well you shouldnae have finished last eh?" again and again.

Yes, we're planning to move.

 

The riposte to him should be his continual use of the word finished. That's the crux the league didn't "finish".  Mind you that would be far too subtle for an infirm fud to work out. 

[Skiba]

4 minutes ago, neilnunb said:

https://www.fifetoday.co.uk/sport/football/raith-supporters-fundraising-walk-tannadice-reduced-advice-police-scotland-2914618

 

🤣

 

Reduced route?  No shit. Be done in half an hour. 🤣

Let them walk about about aimlessly all day

[Brave Hearts]

4 minutes ago, neilnunb said:

https://www.fifetoday.co.uk/sport/football/raith-supporters-fundraising-walk-tannadice-reduced-advice-police-scotland-2914618

 

🤣

 

Reduced route?  No shit. Be done in half an hour. 🤣

 

So their walk won’t complete the full distance but they will still claim they are winners .........

 

sounds familiar 

 

[neilnunb]

1 minute ago, Brave Hearts said:

 

So their walk won’t complete the full distance but they will still claim they are winners .........

 

sounds familiar 

 

 

🤣 choked on a fizzy sweet there

[Jambo-Fox]

8 minutes ago, neilnunb said:

https://www.fifetoday.co.uk/sport/football/raith-supporters-fundraising-walk-tannadice-reduced-advice-police-scotland-2914618

 

🤣

 

Reduced route?  No shit. Be done in half an hour. 🤣

If I lived in the area I’d be very tempted to set up a counter protest!

[BelgeJambo]

Battle of Tay Bridge has a ring to it, don’t you think 😃🇱🇻

[Seymour M Hersh]

Where's @Ethan Hunt?

[Frank Sidebottom]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

Was it ruled it wasn’t a football dispute ? I though LC clearly said otherwise. 

That was my understanding of it.  I think LC said words to the effect that promotion/relegation And sporting integrity were Issues fundamental to Football, hence the referral to arbitration. 
 

 

[Gordon Ramsay]

9 minutes ago, Brave Hearts said:

 

So their walk won’t complete the full distance but they will still claim they are winners .........

 

sounds familiar 

 

 

🤣🤣🤣

[part_time_jambo]

17 minutes ago, neilnunb said:

https://www.fifetoday.co.uk/sport/football/raith-supporters-fundraising-walk-tannadice-reduced-advice-police-scotland-2914618

 

🤣

 

Reduced route?  No shit. Be done in half an hour. 🤣

Do the Police have powers to stop ordinary citizens from walking along a road (other than Motorways or other roads clearly marked as non-pedestrian)?

[Zico]

15 minutes ago, Brave Hearts said:

 

So their walk won’t complete the full distance but they will still claim they are winners .........

 

sounds familiar 

 

[harrywragg]

24 minutes ago, neilnunb said:

https://www.fifetoday.co.uk/sport/football/raith-supporters-fundraising-walk-tannadice-reduced-advice-police-scotland-2914618

 

🤣

 

Reduced route?  No shit. Be done in half an hour. 🤣

 

🤣east neuk of Fife must be jumping this time of year 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Just now, jonnothejambo said:

 

Most Raith fans do that as a matter of course.

Ever wondered how Pratt Street got its name? 

[Jamhammer]

30 minutes ago, Brave Hearts said:

 

So their walk won’t complete the full distance but they will still claim they are winners .........

 

sounds familiar 

 

Well played sir!

[Hagar the Horrible]

5 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

Ever wondered how Pratt Street got its name? 

Is it because the way they tie their ties?  I prefer a full windsor myself?

[TheBigO]

11 hours ago, yvonnejambo said:

Here’s the full link, interesting links within the article too 

https://the4thofficial.net/2020/07/sfa-doesnt-have-a-leg-to-stand-as-their-own-articles-of-association-allows-hearts-partick-to-go-to-court/

WHo is this lad?  Assuming he's a jambo...

[Flux]

https://news.stv.tv/sport/mp-calls-for-fan-led-review-into-scottish-football-governance?top&amp&__twitter_impression=true

 

Hotting up again... 

[Raider]

Hello lads and lassies. I know you may not like me because I support Rangers, I am not here to defend my club or whatever. Like a lot of our fans, I've always had a soft spot for your club, and I think it's disgusting how you're being treated by a governing body entrusted to protect its member clubs.

 

As a supporter of my own club, I have gone through some difficult times when it seemed we were getting hammered non-stop from every direction. I was just a supporter mind, and in the end, the only people who have suffered during our own crisis are the supporters.

 

I do not wish the current difficulties on your club, I believe if we fight together for what is right we are all together stronger. Hearts are too big a Scottish club to not succeed in defending itself in this. I hope your fans can solidify and be one-minded in its support for your club.

 

Anyway, I am just a supporter, and don't have anything ground-breaking to say other than I believe you're fight is just, and I hope you win, and I'm sure you will.

[SectionN]

4 minutes ago, Raider said:

Hello lads and lassies. I know you may not like me because I support Rangers, I am not here to defend my club or whatever. Like a lot of our fans, I've always had a soft spot for your club, and I think it's disgusting how you're being treated by a governing body entrusted to protect its member clubs.

 

As a supporter of my own club, I have gone through some difficult times when it seemed we were getting hammered non-stop from every direction. I was just a supporter mind, and in the end, the only people who have suffered during our own crisis are the supporters.

 

I do not wish the current difficulties on your club, I believe if we fight together for what is right we are all together stronger. Hearts are too big a Scottish club to not succeed in defending itself in this. I hope your fans can solidify and be one-minded in its support for your club.

 

Anyway, I am just a supporter, and don't have anything ground-breaking to say other than I believe you're fight is just, and I hope you win, and I'm sure you will.

Cheers mate Appreciated.