SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Bauldrick]

I was just wondering, what if (and it's a big what if) the big bad SFA withdraw our licence and show us the door, we would then be in the horrendous position of going cap in hand to whoever might have us, eg Irish league, or am I just being paranoid? imagine how happy the scumbags from Fester Road would be, our best option would be to stand our ground, try to get them back to court, do our own bit of crowdfunding in Edinburgh to cover the costs.

[SectionDJambo]

3 minutes ago, Saughton Jambo said:

I thought you might be interested in the attached statement I'm releasing to the media. 

You may post this on Kickback. 

I would hope that even the Kickback members who do not approve of my comments appearing on the forum , will accept that the interests of our club should be defended as widely and comprehensively as possible. Perhaps my comments might assist in that. 

Leslie Deans. 

 

It is with complete astonishment that I learn the SFA have charged the clubs with having the temerity to defend themselves in the Court of Session. This action is nothing more than a blatant and unsubtle attempt to influence the outcome of the arbitration tribunal.  The SFA  are attempting to pressurise the tribunal members to find against the clubs. Have the clubs accepted there is a breach of article 99?  Even if such a breach has taken place , why are the SFA  attempting to interfere with administration of justice?. Do they think they are above Scotland's supreme civil court?
Why could this not have been left until after the proceedings are terminated?

It would seem that their actions are an attempt to undermine the courts authority and the judicial process.  That is tantamount to contempt of court which is a criminal offence.

Any finding against the clubs will  inevitably be viewed as tainted. One wonders what kind of message that sends about Scottish football and Scotland as a whole?  
 

Leslie  Deans 

It’s completely against any normal and balanced belief that this move by the SFA has not been deliberately timed to coincide with the arbitration hearing. It should have no effect on the thinking of the 3 QCs, as we would hope that they are not ingrained with the tribalism and bigotry that infests Scottish football. 
The SFA, through the usual suspects in their propaganda machine, threatened Hearts and Partick with this before the COS hearing. So the intimidation was going on, publicly, then. Why, then,  has it taken so long for this action, which was shamelessly put out in the public domain by SFA officials who don’t have the courage to come out of their dark corners, to actually happen? And they wonder why we didn’t trust them to hear our cases with open minds, natural justice and fairness? 
The public face of Scottish football is one of spite, fear and incompetence. Jobs for the boys, resulting in Scotland being left far behind by countries we used to overcome regularly. These shameless people who have the responsibility of promoting and nurturing Scottish football, have failed miserably, but retain their jobs through intimidation, fear and 3 monkeys syndrome.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

That's what makes the Scottish game the biggest joke of all.

Yet that is exactly what the SFA and SPFL and it seems too many clubs want. A duopoly of the OF. 

[yennifrt]

If Doncaster is on the SFA board would he be the one that employed the compliance officer?

[wavydavy]

36 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Eh yes, we never got permission from the SFA to go to court which is why Lord Clark made the ruling he did.

 

99.15 A member or an associated person may not take a Football Dispute to a court of law except with the 
prior approval of the Board. For the avoidance of doubt, this Article 99.15 does not prevent a member 
or associated person from raising proceedings for time bar purposes, subject to such proceedings being
sisted at the earliest opportunity for resolution in accordance with this Article 99.

 

If we had asked them would they have let us go to court? 

 

I think we all know the answer to that one.

[robbo1874]

The closer we get to the truth the dirtier they'll fight. 

*******s

[wavydavy]

2 minutes ago, yennifrt said:

If Doncaster is on the SFA board would he be the one that employed the compliance officer?

 

It would probably be a board decision heavily influenced by the Celtic contingent.

[manaliveits105]

Why would we go to SFA arbitration first and get no documents etc due to the duplicity and complicity of the SFA and SPFL boards - feck them let’s hear them squeal back at court

[Heartsofgold]

1 hour ago, Eldrik said:

Eh no, which is why Lord Clark ruled that any disputes needed to be heard through the SFA Arbitration system firstly, as per the SFA rules,

 

Wrong.  Lord Clark referred it back due to the rules within the Articles of Association HOWEVER there is provision in those same rules that in certain cases, with prior SFA approval, a club can bypass arbitration and go straight to a Court of Law.

[SectionDJambo]

Just now, yennifrt said:

If Doncaster is on the SFA board would he be the one that employed the compliance officer?

The compliance officer will be the public face of Doncaster, and others, trying to protect what they have managed to manipulate clubs to do for them. They don’t have the courage to do it in their own names.

That would be asterisk titles and a wee bonus for a pathetic broadcasting deal, but presumably with no clawback of previous bonuses for having to pay so much money back.

Remember that they initially congratulated the title winners and didn’t bother mentioning the clubs who were chosen to take all the financial hit. 

[manaliveits105]

INTERDICT 

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, Eldrik said:

No!

 

The SFA have issued a notice of complaint to Hearts and Thistle because they chose to pursue their case direct to the COS rather than go down the route of using their arbitration system that is required in their rules as the first course of action to raise a complaint.

 

Completly separate of any ongoing cases

 

 

 

I am certain that we would have known this but knew that the only way we could get to look at the real evidence in this sorry affair was to go down the route we have.

 

Had we asked the SFA to mediate they would have chucked it out with no case to answer and we would not be able to get the arbitration we have now not would they have been allowed to call witnesses like they can do know.

[graygo]

4 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

If we had asked them would they have let us go to court? 

 

I think we all know the answer to that one.

 

No they wouldn't, I never said they would, just that you can go to court if you ask them and they say yes.

[SectionDJambo]

1 minute ago, Heartsofgold said:

 

Wrong.  Lord Clark referred it back due to the rules within the Articles of Association HOWEVER there is provision in those same rules that in certain cases, with prior SFA approval, a club can bypass arbitration and go straight to a Court of Law.

Can we not just claim that over exuberance took us to court without remembering to tell Petrie and his chums first?

That has worked before, hasn’t it?

[graygo]

3 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

 

Wrong.  Lord Clark referred it back due to the rules within the Articles of Association HOWEVER there is provision in those same rules that in certain cases, with prior SFA approval, a club can bypass arbitration and go straight to a Court of Law.

 

He knows, he even quoted my post with that specific rule.

Don't expect him to admit he was wrong though.

[wavydavy]

Just now, graygo said:

 

No they wouldn't, I never said they would, just that you can go to court if you ask them and they say yes.

 

Calm down I wasn't accusing you of anything just making a comment. 😍

[JimmyCant]

41 minutes ago, Saughton Jambo said:

I thought you might be interested in the attached statement I'm releasing to the media. 

You may post this on Kickback. 

I would hope that even the Kickback members who do not approve of my comments appearing on the forum , will accept that the interests of our club should be defended as widely and comprehensively as possible. Perhaps my comments might assist in that. 

Leslie Deans. 

 

It is with complete astonishment that I learn the SFA have charged the clubs with having the temerity to defend themselves in the Court of Session. This action is nothing more than a blatant and unsubtle attempt to influence the outcome of the arbitration tribunal.  The SFA  are attempting to pressurise the tribunal members to find against the clubs. Have the clubs accepted there is a breach of article 99?  Even if such a breach has taken place , why are the SFA  attempting to interfere with administration of justice?. Do they think they are above Scotland's supreme civil court?
Why could this not have been left until after the proceedings are terminated?

It would seem that their actions are an attempt to undermine the courts authority and the judicial process.  That is tantamount to contempt of court which is a criminal offence.

Any finding against the clubs will  inevitably be viewed as tainted. One wonders what kind of message that sends about Scottish football and Scotland as a whole?  
 

Leslie  Deans 

At least 50 JKB members have made almost the exact same comments on here in the last 6 hours Mr Deans. your comments add nothing. Master of stating the bleeding obvious. Do the media even read your releases now ? Christ almighty man, if you joined the board and posted you still wouldn’t be the most legally savvy person on here. ( I dont mean it’s me by the way but there are at least 3 posters on here with a better handle on this than Leslie Deans has)

Edited July 14, 2020 by JimmyCant

[graygo]

Just now, wavydavy said:

 

Calm down I wasn't accusing you of anything just making a comment. 😍

 

Sorry mate, wasn't having a go at you. The hibby on here has got my goat. 😡

[obua]

SFA arbitration, limited chance of fairness.

SFA charge against us during arbitration process.

SFA don’t even bother trying to hide the corruption any more.

 

[wavydavy]

Just now, graygo said:

 

Sorry mate, wasn't having a go at you. The hibby on here has got my goat. 😡

 

No problem.

[HMFC01]

1 hour ago, jambostevo said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but is this not exactly what we have done?
 

99.12 A member, an associated person and/or the Scottish FA shall not take a Scottish FA Dispute to a court
of law except with the prior approval of the Board. For the avoidance of doubt, this Article 99.12 does
not prevent a member, associated person and/or the Scottish FA from raising proceedings for time bar purposes, subject to such proceedings being sisted at the earliest opportunity for resolution in accordance with this Article 99.

 

My humble intelligence says that's a valid point you've made   

[NANOJAMBO]

2 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

At least 50 JKB members have made almost the exact same comments on here in the last 6 hours Mr Deans. your comments add nothing. Master of stating the bleeding obvious. Do the media even read your releases now ?

Subtlety.

 

Everything you lack. 

 

Put a sock in it and take a breath. 

 

Thanks. 

[Jambo92]

6 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Can we not just claim that over exuberance took us to court without remembering to tell Petrie and his chums first?

That has worked before, hasn’t it?

 

Absolutely mental looking back to think there was zero punishments for turning Hampden into a battlefield.

SFA's bums are squeeking very loudly now.

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I had a look back at the SFA's announcement that the matter was being referred to arbitration on 6 July.

 

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/notice-of-referral-to-arbitration/?rid=13929

 

The announcement included the following statement.

 

"As this process is entirely independent, the Scottish FA will make no further comment." 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is issuing a "notice of complaint" directly related to the matter being referred to Arbitration not making a "comment".

Rather more than a comment.

[JimmyCant]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

Rather more than a comment.

Exactly, so before the hearing even starts, all 3 members are aware we have a disciplinary charge levied at us. This is utterly shocking and potentially prejudicial to our case.

[JimmyCant]

1 minute ago, HMFC01 said:

 

 

Contradicting yourself much?  Or are you saying that 51 members including Deans are talking nonsense.  No offence  

His comments add nothing to the comments already made. No contradiction there at all.

[harrywragg]

36 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

I’ll be gutted if Hearts back down now. This is beyond belief. Not unexpected it would get dirty but if we don’t see this through to the bitter end ...  just need to fight and take it to the end of every available route.  

This. 

 

If only Emmeline Pankhurst decided not to bother her arse about women's voting rights. 

 

If only Rosa Parks had given up her seat on that bus in Alabama. 

 

If only Lech Walesa decided the status quo was OK in the shipyards and streets of Gdansk. 

 

If only the Thistle League Cup final team of 1971 knew their place as underdogs & lay down to the green filth. 

 

If only, if only, if only... 

 

As another poster said, the closer we get the dirtier they get. Taking on the establishment is never going to be easy but stand firm ... our time will come. ✊

 

 

[Fitba' broke my Heart]

So instead of asking the CoS to rule over a dispute,

Hearts and Partick Thistle go to SFA arbitration which results in getting told politely to FO and take your medicine.

If as we are led to believe, there is no appeal process for an unfavourable outcome from the arbitration process, we end up having to do just that.

Cue a multitude of two page spreads of smug looking SPFL board members in the red tops, quoting platitudes re the robust, fair and final nature of the SPFL/SFA arbitration process.

 

Is this a classic case of damned if you do; and damned if you don't.

If so,

where we are now is exactly where we need to be. Regardless of the circumstances.

 

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Doncaster. Lawell. Lennon Dempster et al

abusing them is against the rules ? The rules I read only covers other members.

I think so, if you used homophobic language to describe Denpster for example surely your post would be removed and given a warning? Just saw we will be suspended from JKB if we take them to court hahahahaha, hypocrites 😃😆😂.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[Hendolad]

59 minutes ago, Saughton Jambo said:

I thought you might be interested in the attached statement I'm releasing to the media. 

You may post this on Kickback. 

I would hope that even the Kickback members who do not approve of my comments appearing on the forum , will accept that the interests of our club should be defended as widely and comprehensively as possible. Perhaps my comments might assist in that. 

Leslie Deans. 

 

It is with complete astonishment that I learn the SFA have charged the clubs with having the temerity to defend themselves in the Court of Session. This action is nothing more than a blatant and unsubtle attempt to influence the outcome of the arbitration tribunal.  The SFA  are attempting to pressurise the tribunal members to find against the clubs. Have the clubs accepted there is a breach of article 99?  Even if such a breach has taken place , why are the SFA  attempting to interfere with administration of justice?. Do they think they are above Scotland's supreme civil court?
Why could this not have been left until after the proceedings are terminated?

It would seem that their actions are an attempt to undermine the courts authority and the judicial process.  That is tantamount to contempt of court which is a criminal offence.

Any finding against the clubs will  inevitably be viewed as tainted. One wonders what kind of message that sends about Scottish football and Scotland as a whole?  
 

Leslie  Deans 

Orwell Hearts are proud of you friend.Keep the good work up. 

[NANOJAMBO]

4 minutes ago, harrywragg said:

This. 

 

If only Emmeline Pankhurst decided not to bother her arse about women's voting rights. 

 

If only Rosa Parks had given up her seat on that bus in Alabama. 

 

If only Lech Walesa decided the status quo was OK in the shipyards and streets of Gdansk. 

 

If only the Thistle League Cup final team of 1971 knew their place as underdogs & lay down to the green filth. 

 

If only, if only, if only... 

 

As another poster said, the closer we get the dirtier they get. Taking on the establishment is never going to be easy but stand firm ... our time will come. ✊

 

 

👍

[Byyy The Light]

22 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

At least 50 JKB members have made almost the exact same comments on here in the last 6 hours Mr Deans. your comments add nothing. Master of stating the bleeding obvious. Do the media even read your releases now ? Christ almighty man, if you joined the board and posted you still wouldn’t be the most legally savvy person on here. ( I dont mean it’s me by the way but there are at least 3 posters on here with a better handle on this than Leslie Deans has)

😄 oan yersel Jimmy!

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Amen. 

 

[Byyy The Light]

10 minutes ago, harrywragg said:

This. 

 

If only Emmeline Pankhurst decided not to bother her arse about women's voting rights. 

 

If only Rosa Parks had given up her seat on that bus in Alabama. 

 

If only Lech Walesa decided the status quo was OK in the shipyards and streets of Gdansk. 

 

If only the Thistle League Cup final team of 1971 knew their place as underdogs & lay down to the green filth. 

 

If only, if only, if only... 

 

As another poster said, the closer we get the dirtier they get. Taking on the establishment is never going to be easy but stand firm ... our time will come. ✊

 

 

✊🏼 Can only hope

[Aussie Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Barack said:

Good evening, fellows.

 

What's occurin'...?

 

 

 

[SectionDJambo]

17 minutes ago, harrywragg said:

This. 

 

If only Emmeline Pankhurst decided not to bother her arse about women's voting rights. 

 

If only Rosa Parks had given up her seat on that bus in Alabama. 

 

If only Lech Walesa decided the status quo was OK in the shipyards and streets of Gdansk. 

 

If only the Thistle League Cup final team of 1971 knew their place as underdogs & lay down to the green filth. 

 

If only, if only, if only... 

 

As another poster said, the closer we get the dirtier they get. Taking on the establishment is never going to be easy but stand firm ... our time will come. ✊

 

 

Let’s hope so, man.

As you have alluded to, this is very similar to taking on a one party state, run by a dictator who cares not a jot for his people, as long as he has the gold palace and china tea set. 

All supported by a subservient press who toe the party line or lose their privileges.

I believe our time will come, but that the fight will go on for some time yet. We need to be determined and thick skinned.

And I well remember Thistle showing Celtic what can happen when the arrogance of power sets in.

[Cruyff]

28 minutes ago, harrywragg said:

This. 

 

If only Emmeline Pankhurst decided not to bother her arse about women's voting rights. 

 

If only Rosa Parks had given up her seat on that bus in Alabama. 

 

If only Lech Walesa decided the status quo was OK in the shipyards and streets of Gdansk. 

 

If only the Thistle League Cup final team of 1971 knew their place as underdogs & lay down to the green filth. 

 

If only, if only, if only... 

 

As another poster said, the closer we get the dirtier they get. Taking on the establishment is never going to be easy but stand firm ... our time will come. ✊

 

 

Good Post! 

 

I just think of the Scots Law Delict case between, 

Donoghue vs Stevenson (1932) - a poor wee  pauper woman from Paisley who took Stevenson ginger beer manufacturer all the way to the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom and won because she had a snail in her bottle of ginger. 

It established the law of negligence and the principle of a "duty of care" towards others. 

 

Considering the words "good faith and duty of care" are pretty common place in contracts these days, it's pretty clear that fellow association members did not act with either and as a result, not only caused harm to us but the entire game in this Country. 

 

An absolute corrupt, self serving, bowling committee that acts without conscience and cares not a jot about one another as long as they get theirs. 

[Jambo61]

57 minutes ago, harrywragg said:

This. 

 

If only Emmeline Pankhurst decided not to bother her arse about women's voting rights. 

 

If only Rosa Parks had given up her seat on that bus in Alabama. 

 

If only Lech Walesa decided the status quo was OK in the shipyards and streets of Gdansk. 

 

If only the Thistle League Cup final team of 1971 knew their place as underdogs & lay down to the green filth. 

 

If only, if only, if only... 

 

As another poster said, the closer we get the dirtier they get. Taking on the establishment is never going to be easy but stand firm ... our time will come. ✊

 

 

Quite agree.....but your timeline needs work!

[R08813]

The fact the SFA and the SPFL are both doing everything they can to stop us in our tracks: instructing their media myrmidons to disparage us, threatening expulsion and trying to wriggle out of taking accountability suggests to me that we are pressing exactly where we need to be. If they start panicking keep pushing. We need to take this corrupt, bent establishment all the way. And you had best believe when we've toppled the house of cards, we will still be there. 

 

Heart of Midlothian has the best most loyal group of supporters in the world. We don't need income from the SPFL to survive and if it ceases to exist at the end of the inevitable retrial in the CoS then I have absolutely no doubt that we will be instrumental in rebuilding a better and more equitable system in the aftermath.

 

They thought that threatening punishment today would intimidate the club and its fans. They were wrong. The harmony between club and fans has never been stronger and there's no backing down now.

 

[Jambo Mac]

1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

At least 50 JKB members have made almost the exact same comments on here in the last 6 hours Mr Deans. your comments add nothing. Master of stating the bleeding obvious. Do the media even read your releases now ? Christ almighty man, if you joined the board and posted you still wouldn’t be the most legally savvy person on here. ( I dont mean it’s me by the way but there are at least 3 posters on here with a better handle on this than Leslie Deans has)

I don’t always agree with what JC posts but then I don’t agree with lots of members posts.That is the whole point of a fans forum to express and share views None of us really know what will happen in the coming weeks so any views and opinions are worthwhile.

On this occasion I do agree with JC about  the way LD expresses his views on this forum Joining the forum and posting in the normal way and  remaining anonymous would be best.When he decided a few weeks to stop posting by proxy he claimed not joining was due to not being technology savvy.This is not a criticism but how does he communicate with the media and with SJ to have his thoughts posted

[JyTees]

6 minutes ago, R08813 said:

The fact the SFA and the SPFL are both doing everything they can to stop us in our tracks: instructing their media myrmidons to disparage us, threatening expulsion and trying to wriggle out of taking accountability suggests to me that we are pressing exactly where we need to be. If they start panicking keep pushing. We need to take this corrupt, bent establishment all the way. And you had best believe when we've toppled the house of cards, we will still be there. 

 

Heart of Midlothian has the best most loyal group of supporters in the world. We don't need income from the SPFL to survive and if it ceases to exist at the end of the inevitable retrial in the CoS then I have absolutely no doubt that we will be instrumental in rebuilding a better and more equitable system in the aftermath.

 

They thought that threatening punishment today would intimidate the club and its fans. They were wrong. The harmony between club and fans has never been stronger and there's no backing down now.

 

 

Uplifting post mate. I hope you're on the money!

 

👏

[Rick Sanchez]

If we fail at arbitration could we use this charge as a reason to be unhappy with the ruling and return to the CoS?

[HMFC 86]

6 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

At least 50 JKB members have made almost the exact same comments on here in the last 6 hours Mr Deans. your comments add nothing. Master of stating the bleeding obvious. Do the media even read your releases now ? Christ almighty man, if you joined the board and posted you still wouldn’t be the most legally savvy person on here. ( I dont mean it’s me by the way but there are at least 3 posters on here with a better handle on this than Leslie Deans has)

He’s a Hearts fan and a lawyer and I for one am happy to read his comments. Think you should pipe down though

[gashauskis9]

I wonder if the notice of complaint was sent 6 weeks ago but was stuck in the SFAs outbox?

[Dazo]

30 minutes ago, HMFC 86 said:

He’s a Hearts fan and a lawyer and I for one am happy to read his comments. Think you should pipe down though

As he is entitled to give his view on those comments. To be honest though I agree with Jimmyc, maybe this hearts fan should join the board and post his own comments and he can defend them for himself. His ‘media release’ adds nothing to our cause imo. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Dazo

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

28 minutes ago, Dazo said:

As he is entitled to give his view on those comments. To be honest though I agree with Jimmyc, maybe this hearts fan should join the board and post his own comments and he can defend them for himself. His ‘media release’ adds nothing to our cause imo. 

To be fair, his media release is more likely to generate a story than a post on Kickback. Then again, the EEN do need to fill space.

[Diadora Van Basten]

8 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

How can any reasonable person not be able to understand how Hearts and Partick felt they had to take a legal route to reverse the skullduggery of Good Friday, after seeing the way the the SFA and SPFL are so obviously intertwined, and colluding together. This is similar to organised crime gangs operating a protection racket.

The media in Scotland should hang their heads in shame at their support for this vile thirst for punishment , at worst, or their refusal to ask definitive and hard questions about the motives and behaviour of so many people in positions of authority, at best.

They are all culpable. Scottish football will take years to recover from this, if it ever does. And to think there was a simple solution to help every club, from top to bottom, and not just give Celtic another league title. Nothing else mattered to those people.

I live in hope that Hearts and Partick win in the end, and some exposure of the corruption and arrogance of power of the SFA and SPFL, is laid bare despite the attempts of their media friends to hide it.
 

The SFA and the SPFL are like the ugly sisters in Cinderella completely in cahoots with each other.

 

Doncaster is on the board of both and is Machiavellian in his dealings so can not be trusted to act in good faith.

 

As others have said if we didn’t go to the court of Session then we would not receive fair treatment at the SFA Arbitration process.

[Seymour M Hersh]

If the SFA ever replied to LD's post his " Do they think they are above Scotland's supreme civil court?" comment will just be met with a no we don't but we are entitled to pursue complaints against perceived breaches of our articles of administration. Bluster all round really. 

[Debut 4]

It’s amazing it’s taken until 2020 to get to here.  
 

The incumbents of the GFA may change over the years but their ways don’t.  Like most on here I’ve grown up with elders telling you how corrupt the association is in this country. It’s been a long long time. 
 

My Dad who‘s followed Hearts since the 30s, 40s spoke of “The Outfits” skullduggery even in those days. Really is a disgrace. 

[Deevers]

7 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Rather more than a comment.

Exactly -  more of an effort to exert undue influence. This whole unhappy episode has a long way to go and I suspect given the arrogance of both the SFA and SPFL we are all going to land up back in the CoS. I hope we bring the house of cards crashing down.