SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[jock _turd]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

Do we ? Admittedly I’m no lawyer but I can’t see that’s right. 

 

Have you read the document?

[NANOJAMBO]

3 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

You think? I don't think I the clubs have the capacity for deep thinking to the extent you suggest. It was a sham orchestrated by Doncaster. Trolling, effectively. These people are intellectual crooks. And the clubs are just pathetic lemmings not interested in change or taking responsibi!ity. They forfeit it for a quiet life taking scraps. They are like fish swimming with sharks. This has all been engineered by Lawwell, a cancer to the game's real progress and development. He is the David Murray of Celtic and they have become what they always despised.

That is a very interesting comment which I will happily use the next time I am trolling Celtic fans on this matter.

Happy to acknowledge your ownership. 😀

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

What an enjoyable few pages!

 

It's clear how empty the threats are of expulsion and how serious our petition is, hence the response of the fake title winners. Either way, the smarmy look on Doncaster's face will have disappeared. We've given them a major problem due to their incompetence and malfeasance.

[NANOJAMBO]

24 minutes ago, sac said:

Off the ball & sportsound will be interesting tomorrow. Wouldn’t surprise me if they dig out some retired QC to say we are going to lose. ‘Mon the Hearts, girfutc

 

[DMac-89]

4 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Also (again if we win), we should sing “a spoonful of sugar” if we ever have to play Ayr United any time soon.

A shedload of money more like.

[Beast Boy]

Just now, DMac-89 said:

A shedload of money more like.

That works. 👍

[RobNox]

9 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

It's well written, concise and set outs the arguments in a logical fashion that will help whatever judge takes it on.

 

However, we have only seen the arguments of one side.  There have been many occasions in court where I have felt that the one side has made a compelling case, only to have the other side dismantle those arguments line by line.

 

e.g. the SPFL may produce evidence that they did discuss all the options, weighed up all the pros and cons of each, and only presented the one which they felt best fitted the needs of the company.  Similarly on the Dundee vote, they might argue that "no" votes can be reversed, so they were entitled to enter into discussions with Nelms.

 

I would still urge caution while hoping for the best.

 

The other thing that has to be considered FF is that the SPFL acts on behalf of the member clubs.

 

How many of them are currently contacting the SPFL to try and understand the financial implications of losing this case, versus the cost of reversing the decision not to revamp the leagues?  I've been saying for some time that I believe quite a lot of those clubs might now wish to 'do a Dundee' and change their mind.

 

I stand by my assertion that this will not go to court.  Apart from the concerns that other clubs might now be having, there are two overriding reasons why I believe it won't do so...

 

1. Peter

2. Lawell

 

It's in Celtic's interest to resolve this quickly, they cannot risk their ECL participation if we were to obtain an interdict that delayed our season starting.  Our case does not request that Celtic are denied being declared champions.  Lawell will have already been on the phone to Doncaster to instruct him on how to proceed.  

 

[HMFC01]

2 hours ago, Rick Sanchez said:

Also saying talks are underway with other leagues to stop promotion and relegated since it's only 27 games.

 

**** them.

Hmm, if that's true my suspicion about our 4mil comp' doubling to 8m could've been regarding that it might take us 2 seasons to get back to the prem'.

 

Of course it's only a suspicion, there are a lot of factors to mount in the damages, so I could be jumping the gun here.

[Beast Boy]

A c**tload of money helps the medicine go down...
 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Special Officer Doofy
Oops... thought the swear filter would get that one.

[Dazo]

3 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

Have you read the document?

Not before I posted that. 

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Also (again if we win), we should sing “a spoonful of sugar” if we ever have to play Ayr United any time soon.

 

We should turn the fans bar into a dispensing pharmacy.    Big pharmacy cross lightbox outside.   

[Kidd’s Boots]

1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

SPOILER ALERT FOR THOSE DOING THEIR OWN HOMEWORK.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hearts will apply for an interdict to stop relegation

£8 Million for Hearts

£2M  for Partick

And Hearts want costs awarded too. 

There is another part to the interdict. It will prevent the SPFL impletenting any of the rules changes mentioned in the petition, and would also prevent the Board and Executive from carrying out any other changes without the courts permission. 

 

If only I knew how to add the JJ 'Pleasing' picture....

 

[merrymac]

2 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

 

A fine choice by the SPFL.

I am sure he will do well for them

[jock _turd]

Just now, Dazo said:

Not before I posted that. 

 

Cool

One thing the reading of the document crystallizes quite clearly that unless the SPFL board swing a recon if we do win those three promoted teams won't be , which is nice since they all voted against recon  

[Independence]

3 minutes ago, RobNox said:

 

The other thing that has to be considered FF is that the SPFL acts on behalf of the member clubs.

 

How many of them are currently contacting the SPFL to try and understand the financial implications of losing this case, versus the cost of reversing the decision not to revamp the leagues?  I've been saying for some time that I believe quite a lot of those clubs might now wish to 'do a Dundee' and change their mind.

 

I stand by my assertion that this will not go to court.  Apart from the concerns that other clubs might now be having, there are two overriding reasons why I believe it won't do so...

 

1. Peter

2. Lawell

 

It's in Celtic's interest to resolve this quickly, they cannot risk their ECL participation if we were to obtain an interdict that delayed our season starting.  Our case does not request that Celtic are denied being declared champions.  Lawell will have already been on the phone to Doncaster to instruct him on how to proceed.  

 

Absolutely brilliant, we must stay strong!!!

[Beast Boy]

2 minutes ago, merrymac said:

A fine choice by the SPFL.

I am sure he will do well for them

Working on behalf of the poisonous monkeys.

[Riccarton3]

26 minutes ago, Defender said:

 

Could be totally wrong here but I think 'null & void' could give grounds for mass refunds on season tickets, as, since the season technically didn't happen, then the money paid for them could be claimed back.

 

Again, don't know for sure but I think that might be part of it.

Are these ideas real? If it means I can get my memories of the season erased I will forfeit a refund

Edited June 19, 2020 by Riccarton3

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

7 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

 

 

Off topic but Paul Whitehouse is a national treasure. 😄

[RobNox]

I believe the SPFL will cave and beg us to drop our legal action, which I would agree to do on 2 conditions....

 

1. Relegate Hibs instead of us

2. Promote ICT to take their place, wee Robbo yet again getting one over the hobos

[Victorian]

Better idea.   Away section food kiosk menu.

 

Steak pie  £10

Mince pie  £10

Hotdog  £10

Crisps  £10

Bovril  £10

Medicine  FOC

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

28 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Yep.... and especially since none of the teams were "over" or "beyond"  the finishing line anyway.    No top or bottom team had earned anything.

 

Now that the TV rebates have come to light,  can anyone now explain why null & void would have resulted in anything  different or worse than the mess the SPFL have caused ?   

 

CL nomination from the SPFL = Celtic

Europa League nomination from the SPFL  - Rangers, Motherwell ( & Aberdeen ?)

TV rebate = same as current

 Promotion = nobody   (up to clubs like DU to take legal action against SPFL if they feel aggrieved (how could that succeed in law ?)

Relegation = nobody   (avoid current litigation)

2019/20 prize money = same payout based on lockdown positions (surely the SPFL could have done this by a simple resolution)

 

Am I missing something in thinking this ?

This is what N&V would have meant - according to the SPFL QC - but I think needs to be seen in the context that ND & his Board didn't want to go down this route -

 

the QC said "it would be as though the season never happened" or words to that effect. 

 

The consequences for the clubs were A RISK of having to refund ALL STs and sponsorship deals. Only a RISK.

 

The consequences for the SPFL presumably would have been the same ie A RISK that the TV money etc would have to be repayed

 

ALSO - How would Celtic claim a CL spot if there's no league winner , cos "it never happened". 

 

Promotion / relegation - how could there be - "it never happened." 

 

Hopefully that makes sense.

[merrymac]

1 minute ago, RobNox said:

I believe the SPFL will cave and beg us to drop our legal action, which I would agree to do on 2 conditions....

 

1. Relegate Hibs instead of us

2. Promote ICT to take their place, wee Robbo yet again getting one over the hobos

A fine plan, they will feel more comfortable in the Championship (they seemed to like it the last time ).

 

[NANOJAMBO]

5 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Are these ideas real? If it means I can get my memories of the season erased I will forfeit a refund

Yup. That's what the SPFL told the clubs could potentially happen. 

[Gmcjambo]

1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Poor old Les has put his foot in it : further down Hearts QC points out Les has said that the SPFL "have their legal opinion" (or similar) - in which case the SPFL should have no problem responding within 7 days !! 😆

That's awesome!    Using their own words as weapons,   that's brilliant - and there have been more since this document was submitted.   Not had a chance to read it yet,  but looking forward to doing so soon!    It does seem we have some VERY strong arguments.      I'm still completely baffled and gobsmacked that this risk wasn't taken more seriously by member clubs as 14/10/10/10 was simply a very small price to pay to do the right thing.    This is all completely unnecessary. 

[Riccarton3]

I believe we will not get our day in court. There is No way these cowards will appear. They have a pond they swim in that is overgrown and needs a good dredging. To come to a court would mean emerging into the light. Bottom feeders like it in the dark.

[RobNox]

1 minute ago, Gmcjambo said:

That's awesome!    Using their own words as weapons,   that's brilliant - and there have been more since this document was submitted.   Not had a chance to read it yet,  but looking forward to doing so soon!    It does seem we have some VERY strong arguments.      I'm still completely baffled and gobsmacked that this risk wasn't taken more seriously by member clubs as 14/10/10/10 was simply a very small price to pay to do the right thing.    This is all completely unnecessary. 

 

I couldn't agree more.  If they were at all competent the SPFL Board would have made it clear that all members of the Board should refrain from making any public comments on the whole issue, as these could come back to bite them in the event that legal action was taken, and we warned the SPFL from the outset that we would resort to legal action if all else failed.

[Fozzyonthefence]

12 minutes ago, HMFC01 said:

Hmm, if that's true my suspicion about our 4mil comp' doubling to 8m could've been regarding that it might take us 2 seasons to get back to the prem'.

 

Of course it's only a suspicion, there are a lot of factors to mount in the damages, so I could be jumping the gun here.

How could they say no promotion after an agreed “full” season of 27 games when they’ve had promotion and relegation  this season after only 29 and 30 games which equates to only 75% and 79% of the season being played?  It doesn’t make sense and is surely a restriction of trade?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 minutes ago, Gmcjambo said:

That's awesome!    Using their own words as weapons,   that's brilliant - and there have been more since this document was submitted.   Not had a chance to read it yet,  but looking forward to doing so soon!    It does seem we have some VERY strong arguments.      I'm still completely baffled and gobsmacked that this risk wasn't taken more seriously by member clubs as 14/10/10/10 was simply a very small price to pay to do the right thing.    This is all completely unnecessary. 

I also think the actions of the fake champions will help us. The judge will look at this and say to the SPFL "Why haven't you adjusted the leagues to solve your problem?". The SPFL will argue its members didn't vote for it. The judge will then say that's fine, then apply your own rules as per the petitioner's case. Boom!

[parwj]

4 hours ago, Carl Fredrickson said:

This is better than any TV show. I have spent hours every day for the last how many weeks on this thread. Highs lows, tears, laughter and just about time for shock and awe (as hearts and minds didnt have any impact). 

 

I have no cares for other teams other than the four affected by the farcical vote on Good Friday. Utd, Raith and Cove can get to feck. 

 

The SPFL have to act on reconstruction otherwise there will be at least two lots of court cases to be heard. An absolute shambles of an organisation with no leadership or organisation. 

This is me ! Shouting at radios , tv’s , podcasts don’t know why but I’ll be listening to the cheeks on sportsound tomorrow too! I really should say to myself get a life, but to me, Hearts saved my mental health in 2006, yep it was Mad Vlad but it kept me going that season,  I’ve been low last year through losing both parents, again Hearts and going to the football with my son kept me going. Win this or lose, Forever Hearts, to me, it’s more than a club .

HEARTS HEARTS GLORIOUS HEARTS 

[Clerry Jambo]

This all feels in terms of our support mobilising as big as the administration saga. Let’s hope for a similar result 

[Mikey1874]

That could be 6 years in the Championship for Dundee United. 

[Uberjambo]

My soon to be new screensaver.

 

[Heartsmad1874]

18 minutes ago, Kidd’s Boots said:

There is another part to the interdict. It will prevent the SPFL impletenting any of the rules changes mentioned in the petition, and would also prevent the Board and Executive from carrying out any other changes without the courts permission. 

 

If only I knew how to add the JJ 'Pleasing' picture....

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

7 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

I believe we will not get our day in court. There is No way these cowards will appear. They have a pond they swim in that is overgrown and needs a good dredging. To come to a court would mean emerging into the light. Bottom feeders like it in the dark.

The only thing that matters is winning. Whether it's in or out of court , no one will care. 

 

But this is NDs "Farry moment".

He won't treat AB like this again. If he survives. 

[rory78]

44 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

I’m there too. 

Out of court settlement??who's paying the SPFL have less than you and me in the piggy bank

[David Black]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Fairly sure I know what team he’ll support then. 

Mmmmm ?

Edited June 19, 2020 by David Black

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, rory78 said:

Out of court settlement??who's paying the SPFL have less than you and me in the piggy bank

Sky.

 

And everyone else pays indirectly.

 

Poor St Bribery.

[SUTOL]

40 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Iain Clark

https://gilsongray.co.uk/our-people/iain-clark/

 

Or maybe an Edinburgh based partner, who is into football. https://gilsongray.co.uk/our-people/alex-garioch/

 

Or, the head of litigation, another female to join Ann and Jacqui https://gilsongray.co.uk/our-people/rosie-walker/

 

 

 

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 minute ago, rory78 said:

Out of court settlement??who's paying the SPFL have less than you and me in the piggy bank

They have £25m coming from Sky. 

[Jambo66]

11 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

This is what N&V would have meant - according to the SPFL QC - but I think needs to be seen in the context that ND & his Board didn't want to go down this route -

 

the QC said "it would be as though the season never happened" or words to that effect. 

 

The consequences for the clubs were A RISK of having to refund ALL STs and sponsorship deals. Only a RISK.

 

The consequences for the SPFL presumably would have been the same ie A RISK that the TV money etc would have to be repayed

 

ALSO - How would Celtic claim a CL spot if there's no league winner , cos "it never happened". 

 

Promotion / relegation - how could there be - "it never happened." 

 

Hopefully that makes sense.

It does. However, I think the refund claims for season tickets has been overstated for a couple of reasons. Firstly, the vast majority of supporters are just that - supporters and would be unlikely to make a claim. Even if they did, I think it is a weak argument to say that because the season was deemed not to have taken place, the games we attended actually didn't take place. We all had the benefit 😁 of attending games we believed mattered at the time. In other words, a little like the now debunked notion that Sky etc would claim back all of their money, that wouldn't stand up to scrutiny.

The other point is that I don't think there is anything to stop the SFA (for I think it is down to them) nominating Celtic as our UCL representatives.

[rory78]

12 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

How could they say no promotion after an agreed “full” season of 27 games when they’ve had promotion and relegation  this season after only 29 and 30 games which equates to only 75% and 79% of the season being played?  It doesn’t make sense and is surely a restriction of trade?

Pie in the sky nonsense why bother playing next season if that's the case

[tightrope]

Just like to Say, I am really proud to be associated with Hearts and all of you guys at this moment in time. Regardless of the outcome we are a class above. Do unto others etc. You can't buy class guys, that's why we, as an Edinburgh team will always be able to claim the moral high ground. I mean, really, there biggest achievement was having allegedly hard casuals in the eighties. FFS they Bragg about soccer hooligans cause there teams always been shit. Even their hooligans are shit now. Anyhow, keep your murderers, your meth, your smack and your shoplifting. You will always be shit, green shit. We are Hearts We are proud. The day you die will be joyfull. How nice it would be if we brought it about. FTH. Gorgie Rules. ❤️

[RobNox]

1 minute ago, rory78 said:

Out of court settlement??who's paying the SPFL have less than you and me in the piggy bank

 

It won't be an out of court financial settlement, it will be an agreement to rescind the decision to relegate clubs before the season had been completed.  I don't believe they will attempt to defend this decision in court, there is far more to lose for member clubs if the decision was to go our way than there is to simply reverse the decision and have another go at reconstruction.

[merrymac]

2 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

Or maybe an Edinburgh based partner, who is into football. https://gilsongray.co.uk/our-people/alex-garioch/

 

Or, the head of litigation, another female to join Ann and Jacqui https://gilsongray.co.uk/our-people/rosie-walker/

 

 

 

Come on @Cruyff  thats two votes for Mr Garioch. 

Lets have your best shot.

( Sorry mate @SUTOL earlier running joust regarding who the main man might be)

[Victorian]

Just now, RobNox said:

 

It won't be an out of court financial settlement, it will be an agreement to rescind the decision to relegate clubs before the season had been completed.  I don't believe they will attempt to defend this decision in court, there is far more to lose for member clubs if the decision was to go our way than there is to simply reverse the decision and have another go at reconstruction.

 

Mostly with this.   Can't see a financial settlement now.     Which is a shame as that was my preference.     

[rory78]

4 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

They have £25m coming from Sky. 

Wouldn't be settling for much less than we asked but also reinstated to top flight 

[highlandjambo3]

2 hours ago, 22games nro said:

yep that’s the money shot 

 

 

There is a lot of legal jargon to sift through and, tbh, I just skim through and occasionally stop at any nuggets I find.  When I read this one even a simpleton like me understands that paragraph...my response...............

SEMI 🤟

[Guest ToqueJambo]

These should definitely be our new mascots for the new season

 

 

[rory78]

2 minutes ago, RobNox said:

 

It won't be an out of court financial settlement, it will be an agreement to rescind the decision to relegate clubs before the season had been completed.  I don't believe they will attempt to defend this decision in court, there is far more to lose for member clubs if the decision was to go our way than there is to simply reverse the decision and have another go at reconstruction.

👍

[Kiwidoug]

SPFL will argue that they consulted widely and often and only took the actions their member clubs agreed to.  That is in part true but it doesn't address fairness nor does it deal with compensation which is the bit they will be most concerned with.

 

We're all biased here but I would far rather be in our position than theirs.