Fozzyonthefence Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 15 minutes ago, David McCaig said: It would be interesting to see Police Scotland seizing their computers and forensically going through the email traffic. Why would Police Scotland get involved though unless a crime has been committed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Dundee are looking for something. It’s clear to them they are being shafted and want a negotiation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horatio Caine Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said: I ripped into Kheredine earlier, probably unfairly. Possibly, but it was beautiful rhetoric! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said: I ripped into Kheredine earlier, probably unfairly. Nah, he's still a gimp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borders Jambo Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said: He is on as is Michal Stewart. Tom E is the one I trust to properly look into this. It will be interesting to hear MS's take on it although he does enjoy a soundbite and a spot of look at me I'm an intellectual whilst spouting faux outrage at times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 So can someone confirm did Dundee actually vote and then because the spfl didn't receive it are now looking at the options? If so releasing the results must be viewed as influencing their decision? Surely we'd take them to cleaners in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 (edited) Considering the near overwhelming yes by teams including those with play off chances proves that most clubs worry far more about looking down the way (despite being relatively safe) than looking upwards. Edited April 11, 2020 by DETTY29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 29 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: No one from Dundee FC has said that. You are quoting a newspaper headline. Dundee have said NOTHING since their 5pm statement. This statement. Agree, I mis-read the original stuff further up and thought it was quoting Dundee. Apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
number-16 Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 So Dundee will be pushing for 3 up (United, ICT and them), 1 down (us) and not voting yes until it's promised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David McCaig Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 11 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said: Why would Police Scotland get involved though unless a crime has been committed? That’s the point at which stage is the SPFL behaviour fraudulent... it seems like every key email is going missing and discrepancies about receipt times!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 11 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said: The ball is firmly in the court of the SPFL to talk Dundee round into voting yes. Everyone knows this is what is happening now. Dundee could clear this up in 2 minutes if they wanted to. The fact that they haven’t doesn’t only not look good for us but also the integrity of Scottish football. If Dundee are coerced into voting yes I really think I’ll be done with Scottish football completely. There really doesn’t seem any point anymore. I know how you feel, but this is probably exactly what some other club's fans are hoping will happen, and we end up like Dundee or worse. Hearts fans need to stick behind the club, and be selfish for the club. Prioritise giving Hearts the financial support that we normally share with other clubs. Defend Hearts against outside critisism, without giving up ghe right to criticise Hearts ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David McCaig Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, number-16 said: So Dundee will be pushing for 3 up (United, ICT and them), 1 down (us) and not voting yes until it's promised? That has even less chance a 16 team league of being voted through. Dundee’s best hope of promotion is to a 14 team SPL via a phenomenally weak Championship next year. Going to 14 teams via 3 promotions would be vetoed by ourselves and Rangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RENE Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 If(and it's a big IF). If Dundee vote yes and get an agreement on reconstruction we will be relegated. Then they have reconstruction talks and it's agreed 14 team league. Whats the guarantee we will be in Premiership. What's to stop them saying three from Championship be promoted as Hearts have already been relegated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, RENE said: If(and it's a big IF). If Dundee vote yes and get an agreement on reconstruction we will be relegated. Then they have reconstruction talks and it's agreed 14 team league. Whats the guarantee we will be in Premiership. What's to stop them saying three from Championship be promoted as Hearts have already been relegated. Surely reconstruction requires 11/1 vote? If Dundee vote yes, reconstruction won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, RENE said: If(and it's a big IF). If Dundee vote yes and get an agreement on reconstruction we will be relegated. Then they have reconstruction talks and it's agreed 14 team league. Whats the guarantee we will be in Premiership. What's to stop them saying three from Championship be promoted as Hearts have already been relegated. Very much doubt 11-1 vote in Premiership to vote through Reconstruction will be possible. SPFL probably know that to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgie_Rules Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 If I were a Dundee fan and we voted to promote United and in turn meant that Hearts joined us in the Championship next season I would be raging with the club. Dundee need some sort of carrot to tell their supporters why they are going for it, and I can’t really work out what the SPFL can offer them to persuade them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David McCaig Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, RENE said: If(and it's a big IF). If Dundee vote yes and get an agreement on reconstruction we will be relegated. Then they have reconstruction talks and it's agreed 14 team league. Whats the guarantee we will be in Premiership. What's to stop them saying three from Championship be promoted as Hearts have already been relegated. Any reconstruction would need to be prior to the league ending proposal to stand any chance of passing. So Hearts would vote on the terms of that reconstruction. Once the league has ended and clubs have their money, reconstruction will be a dead duck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 The 11-1 vote makes league reconstruction impossible as its clear that clubs like Ross County, Hamilton and St Mirren will also see it as diluting the pot. What they should see it as is a league with less fear of relegation looming over them every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, David McCaig said: Any reconstruction would need to be prior to the league ending proposal to stand any chance of passing. So Hearts would vote on the terms of that reconstruction. Once the league has ended and clubs have their money, reconstruction will be a dead duck. Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David McCaig Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said: Very much doubt 11-1 vote in Premiership to vote through Reconstruction will be possible. SPFL probably know that to be fair. I think it’s doable whilst clubs are unable to access end of season cash. It’s off the table the moment the SPFL proposal passes. We need to hope that Dundee are prepared to play the long game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerry Jambo Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Michael Stewart liked @Kheredine @Kheredine2018 Morning. Knowing what everyone else did, @DundeeFC now hold the casting @spfl vote. My info is they signed and dated a ‘no’ slip but didnt actually cast their vote. Meaning they could now change to ‘yes’. If they do, the motion to ‘call the season’ passes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Clerry Jambo said: Michael Stewart liked @Kheredine @Kheredine2018 Morning. Knowing what everyone else did, @DundeeFC now hold the casting @spfl vote. My info is they signed and dated a ‘no’ slip but didnt actually cast their vote. Meaning they could now change to ‘yes’. If they do, the motion to ‘call the season’ passes Id like to know why they did not cast their vote? Did Doncaster know it was NO and asked them to hold off for one to one discussion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RENE Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, David McCaig said: Any reconstruction would need to be prior to the league ending proposal to stand any chance of passing. So Hearts would vote on the terms of that reconstruction. Once the league has ended and clubs have their money, reconstruction will be a dead duck. Thanks guys who replied. But as soon as vote is carried the SPFL will finish season for payouts. Then there will be reconstruction talks. I know it's an 11-1 vote but if it's agreed before Dundee sign there will be reconstruction of some kind we could still be in the grubber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David McCaig Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, RENE said: Thanks guys who replied. But as soon as vote is carried the SPFL will finish season for payouts. Then there will be reconstruction talks. I know it's an 11-1 vote but if it's agreed before Dundee sign there will be reconstruction of some kind we could still be in the grubber Not if the proposal fails, the season remains suspended and no cash is paid out. If there is a 14 team SPL next season we will be in it. The only way Dundee will be in it, is if a top flight club goes bankrupt in the interim!! And reconstruction is either voted through or it isn’t? What could be agreed with Dundee prior to voting through the SPFL proposal that was legally binding that hadn’t been voted on by Hearts? Edited April 11, 2020 by David McCaig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 I genuinely think people need to forget reconstruction its just not happening. Feel free to bookmark it and tell me i was 100% wrong but there is just not a chance in hell thats getting votes. Thats one of the main reasons its not on the table with this vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, Clerry Jambo said: Michael Stewart liked @Kheredine @Kheredine2018 Morning. Knowing what everyone else did, @DundeeFC now hold the casting @spfl vote. My info is they signed and dated a ‘no’ slip but didnt actually cast their vote. Meaning they could now change to ‘yes’. If they do, the motion to ‘call the season’ passes How is that even possible to do by email Just saved it to their drafts for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, Jamboelite said: The 11-1 vote makes league reconstruction impossible as its clear that clubs like Ross County, Hamilton and St Mirren will also see it as diluting the pot. What they should see it as is a league with less fear of relegation looming over them every week. Surely 9-3 would apply (and if not then why not should be the question demanded of the governing body). 1st place gets proprtionally much more than the rest of the clubs, so an amount from first could be used to bump up 13th & 14th with a smaller figure being taken from the other clubs. Its a small sacrifice for them to make Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RENE Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, David McCaig said: Not if the proposal fails, the season remains suspended and no cash is paid out. If there is a 14 team SPL next season we will be in it. The only way Dundee will be in it, is if a top flight club goes bankrupt in the interim!! Hi DJ. I'm saying if Dundee get an agreement for reconstruction and vote yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David McCaig Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Just now, OTT said: Surely 9-3 would apply (and if not then why not should be the question demanded of the governing body). 1st place gets proprtionally much more than the rest of the clubs, so an amount from first could be used to bump up 13th & 14th with a smaller figure being taken from the other clubs. Its a small sacrifice for them to make The league pays out from 1-42, there is no reason why the pot has to be diluted in anyway. If clubs vote down reconstruction the league and end of season money remains frozen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 2 hours ago, manaliveits105 said: Our legal team must under freedom of information (open and transparent and all that)request copy of how vote was sent what it was and time sent from each club and also request same info from SPFL and compare I think a Scottish Government Enquiry in due course would be appropriate over this Complete farce which as involves millions of pounds and people’s livelihoods could end up criminal matter Mrs Budge is on record as saying she will not fight relegation. If that is what the football community decides we should be relegated we will handle relegation, or some pish like that. Of course she may have toughened her stance after yesterday's shenanigans. I'm wondering if Mrs Budge is looking for a place on the SPFL board after she has handed over to FOH. Just a thought🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David McCaig Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, RENE said: Hi DJ. I'm saying if Dundee get an agreement for reconstruction and vote yes. How have they got agreement on reconstruction prior to casting their vote? To get this Hearts would be a voting member of the SPL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David McCaig Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, luckydug said: Mrs Budge is on record as saying she will not fight relegation. If that is what the football community decides we should be relegated we will handle relegation, or some pish like that. Of course she may have toughened her stance after yesterday's shenanigans. I'm wondering if Mrs Budge is looking for a place on the SPFL board after she has handed over to FOH. Just a thought🤔 I’m certain that the clubs affected will fight this all the way now. There is no question that the SPFL have acted inappropriately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flem Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, Jamboelite said: I genuinely think people need to forget reconstruction its just not happening. Feel free to bookmark it and tell me i was 100% wrong but there is just not a chance in hell thats getting votes. Thats one of the main reasons its not on the table with this vote. Correct IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His name is Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 I haven't been keeping up with this debacle. Am I right in thinking, Dundee now hold the casting vote? They vote for the deal, we go down? They vote against the deal, its back to the drawing board? Is that where we're at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David McCaig Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Just now, His name is said: I haven't been keeping up with this debacle. Am I right in thinking, Dundee now hold the casting vote? They vote for the deal, we go down? They vote against the deal, its back to the drawing board? Is that where we're at? In a nutshell yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 My only thought is Dundee are looking for a 16 team top flight and want it on the table. They clearly don’t realise that the OF feeder teams will never vote for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, His name is said: I haven't been keeping up with this debacle. Am I right in thinking, Dundee now hold the casting vote? They vote for the deal, we go down? They vote against the deal, its back to the drawing board? Is that where we're at? In a nutshell yes. With a lot of shenanigans in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rods said: My only thought is Dundee are looking for a 16 team top flight and want it on the table. They clearly don’t realise that the OF feeder teams will never vote for that. The suggestion was they don't want titles to be given. I saw some articles on what they were saying but can't find them just now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerry Jambo Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 22 minutes ago, Jamboelite said: The 11-1 vote makes league reconstruction impossible as its clear that clubs like Ross County, Hamilton and St Mirren will also see it as diluting the pot. What they should see it as is a league with less fear of relegation looming over them every week. Yip, let’s be honest an overwhelming majority voted on this pish for financial reasons and looking after themselves, reconstruction won’t happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 (edited) When the leagues increased from 10 to 12 in 2000, St Mirren as League 1 champions were automatically promoted. Aberdeen, Dunfermline and Falkirk were to play off but as Falkirk's ground was not suitable, Aberdeen stayed and Dunfermline (in second place) went up. Under the current end Championship, 1 and 2 motion, there will be no play offs ergo there is a risk of similar if reconstruction meaning:- A. Hearts stay plus Dundee and Inverness or B. Hearts relegated and 3 come up adding in Dundee Considering SFA still wanting SC to complete too and we are in it, play offs really arent possible. If the key driver is club cash survival then back to drawing board. The 'we will consider reconstruction at some point' in future especially with an 11.1 veto doesn't fly unless the restructure proposal is put to clubs at same time. We will consider reconstruction. Come on. A no vote being received late is neither consider as a no, nor an abstention, but firstly a review as to whether it can be turned round to 75% of members who voted, which can't happen to now, aah ok, how can we put pressure on the team that voted no late to change its mind. Jesus Christ wouldn't have bothered with resurrection this weekend if he was a Scottish football fan. Edited April 11, 2020 by DETTY29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His name is Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, David McCaig said: In a nutshell yes 5 minutes ago, luckydug said: In a nutshell yes. With a lot of shenanigans in between. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychedelicropcircle Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 26 minutes ago, Gorgie_Rules said: If I were a Dundee fan and we voted to promote United and in turn meant that Hearts joined us in the Championship next season I would be raging with the club. Dundee need some sort of carrot to tell their supporters why they are going for it, and I can’t really work out what celtic can offer them to persuade them. FTFY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 14 minutes ago, Jamboelite said: I genuinely think people need to forget reconstruction its just not happening. Feel free to bookmark it and tell me i was 100% wrong but there is just not a chance in hell thats getting votes. Thats one of the main reasons its not on the table with this vote. I'm tend to agree. Not on proposals. 11.1 voting. The antics of the SPFL leadership last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Ridiculous we are sitting here waiting on Dundee deciding if Celtic win the league and Hearts are relegated. Just let that sink in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 3 hours ago, manaliveits105 said: Our legal team must under freedom of information (open and transparent and all that)request copy of how vote was sent what it was and time sent from each club and also request same info from SPFL and compare I think a Scottish Government Enquiry in due course would be appropriate over this Complete farce which as involves millions of pounds and people’s livelihoods could end up criminal matter FOI only applies to public body. There's no way besides court action we could force them to release that information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, Shanks said: Ridiculous we are sitting here waiting on Dundee deciding if Celtic win the league and Hearts are relegated. Just let that sink in. And they've got 27 days to be wooed before they have to commit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David McCaig Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, DETTY29 said: I'm tend to agree. Not on proposals. 11.1 voting. The antics of the SPFL leadership last night. The current circumstances are the only chance it does have of getting through... Although Rangers a guaranteed no, so effectively an 11-0 required from remaining clubs!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Right here is everything wrong with the Scottish game. If Celtic were second, they wouldn't vote for this. If Rangers were first, they would. If we'd beaten St Mirrens and they were bottom, they wouldn't be voting for this. Chances are (as much as I'd love to think otherwise), we would. The member clubs shouldn't be deciding this. Basically it doesn't effect 90% of the teams in the system so they're voting for easiest way for themselves. I'm all right Jack. Our governing bodies should be saying they're going to protect ALL our clubs. Missing out on promotion is a very different thing to being relegated. Top of the agenda should be how we avoid that. And if we can do so whilst allowing promotion, all the better. Some clubs would miss out, but only that, miss out. Belgium did it without all this crap and backstabbing. Strong leadership to look after their members. Our game, its governors, its clubs, all its stakeholders, is nothing short of depressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolkeith Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, AlphonseCapone said: FOI only applies to public body. There's no way besides court action we could force them to release that information. As part of the organisation would you not be able to see them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Smithee said: And they've got 27 days to be wooed before they have to commit They've played a blinder to be fair to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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