Should Hearts take legal action for being expelled from the top flight?

[GinRummy]

34 minutes ago, Gambo said:

That would be a huge YES from me.

And me. **** Scottish football. Tear it to pieces and to hell with the consequences. 

[Gambo]

8 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Correct.  My loyalty is to Heart of Midlothian football club, not Scottish football.

Be interesting to see our leaders take on this, as so far she has sided on Scottish Football.

[gashauskis9]

5 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

Legal action! Legal action! Legal action!

 

over 90% want Hearts to take legal action!

Can someone outline the legal action that is proposed? On what grounds? And what the desired outcome is?

 

 I’d be happy to contribute but I’m interested to understand the detail!

 

Legal action! Legal action! Legal action!

Potential loss of income from not getting a chance to see out the season with 24 points to play for (when other options seem to have been removed from discussion).

 

Selective rule changing with play offs being scrapped, but relegation and promotion remaining in tact.  
 

We’d probably want to challenge the force majoure (so) definitions as well which are likely to protect teams going into admin from a 15 point deduction as soon as the season is called, whilst we’re ejected just because of current position.  I can see a number of teams taking advantage of this and cutting their losses whilst benefiting from OF pay days.

[David McCaig]

Just now, Gashauskis9 said:

Potential loss of income from not getting a chance to see out the season with 24 points to play for (when other options seem to have been removed from discussion).

 

Selective rule changing with play offs being scrapped, but relegation and promotion remaining in tact.  
 

We’d probably want to challenge the force majoure (so) definitions as well which are likely to protect teams going into admin from a 15 point deduction as soon as the season is called, whilst we’re ejected just because of current position.  I can see a number of teams taking advantage of this and cutting their losses whilst benefiting from OF pay days.

Or clubs starting on -15 in a season in which the SPL will probably have frozen relegation as they’ll be no Championship to promote from.

[gashauskis9]

4 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Be interesting to see our leaders take on this, as so far she has sided on Scottish Football.

This whole thing has sadly made me very cynical and I’ve mentioned before that it wouldn’t shock me if she’s got a non-Exec gig lined up with them for after she leaves Hearts.  Nice earner, no hassle.

[gashauskis9]

Just now, David McCaig said:

Or clubs starting on -15 in a season in which the SPL will probably have frozen relegation as they’ll be no Championship to promote from.

Absolutely.  Just wait for next season being only  15-20 games long with no relegation because the majority of the league think it’s unfair in the circumstances to punish teams.  The irony will be off the ****ing charts.  

[johnthomas]

4 hours ago, rogers said:

When you are dealing with a situation that, in your opinion is injurious to your organization and has no legal merit in  your opinion, and is proceeding regardless, then unleashing a nasty (strong) lawsuit against the parties has to be launched. The right solicitors will know what to say. The type that go for the jugular and don't care about anyone's hurt feelings. You don't want a bunch of real estate lawyers handling it.

The SPFL is a limited company, if it was incorporated then you could have gone after the assets of each and every member of the SPFL board.  This is no time to be nice....that's been tried.

Sounds great , any actual legal foundation to this ?

[ford donald]

9 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Be interesting to see our leaders take on this, as so far she has sided on Scottish Football.

 

If she does not fight this all the way,she should walk.

[johnthomas]

37 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

I suspect Partick don't have the funding to fight a legal case on their own, so they focused resources on keeping people in jobs and the club afloat.  I'm sure they will be up for it if there is a joint action where the financial risk is reduced.

Or , possibly , they were also advised on their chances of actually winning ?

[davemclaren]

Just now, johnthomas said:

Or , possibly , they were also advised on their chances of actually winning ?

It’s always s balance. Rich person more likely to take a chance on a weaker case. 

[David McCaig]

2 minutes ago, johnthomas said:

Or , possibly , they were also advised on their chances of actually winning ?

Or Partick foolishly placed their faith in Scottish football’s capacity to act for the greater good re reconstruction.

[ando]

If we are relegated/demoted we should ask them for a parachute payment of between 2-3 million.

[oi oi]

Unfortunately the power to put us down is within the SPFL Articles of Association and the Rules and Regulations, deeming any action pointless. Both of which we had signed up to. A legal case would be without merit.

 

While the entire process stinks, what they have done is within their gift.

[braveheart]

16 minutes ago, oi oi said:

Unfortunately the power to put us down is within the SPFL Articles of Association and the Rules and Regulations, deeming any action pointless. Both of which we had signed up to. A legal case would be without merit.

 

While the entire process stinks, what they have done is within their gift.

Not that I,m disagreeing with you but is there a part that you could copy and paste.

[Gambo]

23 minutes ago, oi oi said:

Unfortunately the power to put us down is within the SPFL Articles of Association and the Rules and Regulations, deeming any action pointless. Both of which we had signed up to. A legal case would be without merit.

 

While the entire process stinks, what they have done is within their gift.

If they went about it correctly.

 

Lost votes.

What was actually being voted on, and clubs being told that was only way clubs could get money.

Etc

Etc

Etc

 

[johnthomas]

1 hour ago, David McCaig said:

Or Partick foolishly placed their faith in Scottish football’s capacity to act for the greater good re reconstruction.

Think they had accepted relegation (?) long before that 

[Chuck Berry]

1 hour ago, johnthomas said:

Or , possibly , they were also advised on their chances of actually winning ?

 

I think their legal counsel believes they have a strong case should they proceed.

[ExPatTam]

7 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

I think their legal counsel believes they have a strong case should they proceed.

 

A strong case to make lots of $$$$’s. 

[JamboCraig]

Is there a crowdfunding page set up? If not someone should do it pronto. I would but I’m not entirely sure how to go about it.

[OTT]

So looking to be about 94% of Hearts fans (if this poll is representative of the fan base) want to see legal action. 

 

Budge absolutely cannot roll over on this one. 

[davemclaren]

15 minutes ago, JamboCraig said:

Is there a crowdfunding page set up? If not someone should do it pronto. I would but I’m not entirely sure how to go about it.

Best wait to see what happens over the next few days I think.  Also, crowdfunding may not be the best platform to use. 

[ford donald]

14 minutes ago, OTT said:

So looking to be about 94% of Hearts fans (if this poll is representative of the fan base) want to see legal action. 

 

Budge absolutely cannot roll over on this one. 

 

Worrying over 6% want to do nothing.

[Mad Dog Logan]

1 minute ago, ford donald said:

 

Worrying over 6% want to do nothing.

Hibs fans/trolls.

[sinks]

1 hour ago, oi oi said:

Unfortunately the power to put us down is within the SPFL Articles of Association and the Rules and Regulations, deeming any action pointless. Both of which we had signed up to. A legal case would be without merit.

 

While the entire process stinks, what they have done is within their gift.

Also within their articles there is a section on play offs

[highlandjambo3]

390 so far willing to chip in (I’d go £100), am sure some minted Jambos would go more........that’s a fair wedge and it will grow......come on let’s do it hearts.

[David McCaig]

12 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Best wait to see what happens over the next few days I think.  Also, crowdfunding may not be the best platform to use. 

True, we already have a mechanism in place with Foundation of Hearts

[davemclaren]

Just now, David McCaig said:

True, we already have a mechanism in place with Foundation of Hearts

Correct. 

[jbee647]

2 hours ago, ford donald said:

 

If she does not fight this all the way,she should walk.

I genuinely don’t believe AB has the appetite for this 

Can Hearts fans raise an action themselves, maybe even divert FOH funds to finance this

[22inarow]

My message to AB would be to ask fans to donate to a legal fighting fund now, TODAY and publicise the amounts pledged/donated to make it plain to the SPFL that we, the fans and the club are not going to go quietly. I'm certain that an impressive amount would be raised in a very short time and will give these blazers pause for thought before they make any final decision to expel us.

If we win the case and are awarded costs from them or the blazers blink first and 'amend' their plans to expel us, we can give the funds to FOH.

[Jambo-Fox]

43 minutes ago, ford donald said:

 

Worrying over 6% want to do nothing.

I think that’s where we will be. Yes we are all angry, the SPFL have failed in numerous ways, peer group clubs have treated us with contempt. Loads of emotion but I’ve not seen a compelling basis for legal action, nor the chance of success, nor what it will deliver.

 

Lets see how things evolve before throwing loads of money at this.

 

And hope for some much needed wins in the last 8 games!

Edited May 9, 2020 by Jambo-Fox

[kila]

Leslie Deans reckons legal action could be in the region £250k - £500k

 

 

[kila]

Leslie Deans also says he'd throw a 4 figure sum into the hat to get the ball rolling

 

Foundation of Hearts need to step and coordinate this as there is clearly enough appetite for a fight from fans

[stirlo]

In a nutshell, the reality is we're going to be relegated and I don't see that changing. But it sounds like there would be strong grounds to claim compensation from the SPFL.

 

 

[Official_AB]

The reality is we need to fight this along with the other clubs! Lets get a just giving page setup! 
 

surely between all the teams that have said there’s an injustice we can get enough for Legal costs: 

Hearts 

Rangers 

Falkirk 

Stranraer 

Kelty 

Brora Rangers 

Partick Thistle 

Stenhousemuir 

 

the list will continue to grow 

 

get it organised 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Assuming we'd be suing for compensation for demotion rather than to be reinstated before the start of the next season (which might happen anyhow if a team goes bust because of this), how about this for a solution....

 

If everyone agrees Hearts were in real danger relegation then you have to also admit Hamilton, St Mirren and Ross Country were too. One of them was destined for a play-off at minimum.

 

All three of them will benefit financially from their vote to demote Hearts, which is also estimated cost Hearts £3m at least. I reckon between them - prize money next season, TV money and crowds/income - they will collectively profit from at least £3m from the vote to demote Hearts early.

 

So why not push for compensation up to £3m to Hearts to be ring fenced from next year's Premiership prize money pot as a "COVID parachute payment". It's up to the Premiership teams to vote whether Hamilton, County and St Mirren should bear all of those costs or if it should come from the whole pot.

 

The same thing can be applied to the other leagues to compensate Thistle and Stranraer.

 

This seems to be a fair way to fix an unfair situation where some clubs are actually benefiting financially from this crisis, and theSPFL vote was setup in such a way that they were able to vote to demote their relegation rival and save themselves, plus to benefit financially themselves as well.

Edited May 9, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[ford donald]

18 minutes ago, stirlo said:

In a nutshell, the reality is we're going to be relegated and I don't see that changing. But it sounds like there would be strong grounds to claim compensation from the SPFL.

 

 

 

24 points to play for,more like being ejected rather than relegated!

[Rods]

Got to feel that the clubs that have lost out due to this need to get together and claim for compensation. I have lost total faith in Budge but I get the feeling she always realised this was not going to work but went along to tick boxes before going for compensation. 
 

As usual I may be just a tad optimistic 

[jr ewing]

Is the case winnable? Perry Mason still around?

[Jambo-Fox]

16 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

Assuming we'd be suing for compensation for demotion rather than to be reinstated before the start of the next season (which might happen anyhow if a team goes bust because of this), how about this for a solution....

 

If everyone agrees Hearts were in real danger relegation then you have to also admit Hamilton, St Mirren and Ross Country were too. One of them was destined for a play-off at minimum.

 

All three of them will benefit financially from their vote to demote Hearts, which is also estimated cost Hearts £3m at least. I reckon between them - prize money next season, TV money and crowds/income - they will collectively profit from at least £3m from the vote to demote Hearts early.

 

So why not push for compensation up to £3m to Hearts to be ring fenced from next year's Premiership prize money pot as a "COVID parachute payment". It's up to the Premiership teams to vote whether Hamilton, County and St Mirren should bear all of those costs or if it should come from the whole pot.

 

The same thing can be applied to the other leagues to compensate Thistle and Stranraer.

 

This seems to be a fair way to fix an unfair situation where some clubs are actually benefiting financially from this crisis, and theSPFL vote was setup in such a way that they were able to vote to demote their relegation rival and save themselves, plus to benefit financially themselves as well.

This is a good proposal and in a normal world would most likely be accepted.

However;

1. In Scottish Football ‘fairness’ is an alien concept!

2. ‘Fair minded’ people in Scottish Football are in the small minority!

 

So while your proposal is honourable the people who would deal with and approve it are not!

[Gambo]

37 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

Assuming we'd be suing for compensation for demotion rather than to be reinstated before the start of the next season (which might happen anyhow if a team goes bust because of this), how about this for a solution....

 

If everyone agrees Hearts were in real danger relegation then you have to also admit Hamilton, St Mirren and Ross Country were too. One of them was destined for a play-off at minimum.

 

All three of them will benefit financially from their vote to demote Hearts, which is also estimated cost Hearts £3m at least. I reckon between them - prize money next season, TV money and crowds/income - they will collectively profit from at least £3m from the vote to demote Hearts early.

 

So why not push for compensation up to £3m to Hearts to be ring fenced from next year's Premiership prize money pot as a "COVID parachute payment". It's up to the Premiership teams to vote whether Hamilton, County and St Mirren should bear all of those costs or if it should come from the whole pot.

 

The same thing can be applied to the other leagues to compensate Thistle and Stranraer.

 

This seems to be a fair way to fix an unfair situation where some clubs are actually benefiting financially from this crisis, and theSPFL vote was setup in such a way that they were able to vote to demote their relegation rival and save themselves, plus to benefit financially themselves as well.

All the way upto Hibs were in danger of relegation.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

27 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Is the case winnable? Perry Mason still around?

I reckon I could win it, don't think you need Perry Mason. 

 

Today has been a disaster for the SPFL. 

 

Fighting multiple fires,  I hope at the EGM someone takes responsibility for backing the non league teams 

[Turkishcap]

Having listened to the chairmen of Kelty and Brora there is enough to get Tuesdays vote for an inquiry and again having heard Leslie Dean 1,000 times YES to legal.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, Gambo said:

All the way upto Hibs were in danger of relegation.

yes, so the fairest thing would be for all premiership clubs, or all spfl clubs, to take out an appropriate amount from next seasons tv and prize money and give it to the three teams that were demoted. Those are teams that will financially suffer the most.

 

Teams like Caley, dundee and ayr also have a case for claiming their chance of promotion via playoff was taken away. However  the consequences of not getting promoted or not getting into europe (or even not winning a title) are not as financially crippling as getting relegated.

[CJGJ]

7 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

yes, so the fairest thing would be for all premiership clubs, or all spfl clubs, to take out an appropriate amount from next seasons tv and prize money and give it to the three teams that were demoted. Those are teams that will financially suffer the most.

 

Teams like Caley, dundee and ayr also have a case for claiming their chance of promotion via playoff was taken away. However  the consequences of not getting promoted or not getting into europe (or even not winning a title) are not as financially crippling as getting relegated.

Well Dundee and Ayr United can do one for a start

[Official_AB]

Fans of other teams willing to donate money for hearts legal case!!  
 

lets do it! This needs progressed 

[GinRummy]

48 minutes ago, Turkishcap said:

Having listened to the chairmen of Kelty and Brora there is enough to get Tuesdays vote for an inquiry and again having heard Leslie Dean 1,000 times YES to legal.

Tuesday has no chance imo. Clubs will vote in their own interest. We could get more divisiveness and bad feeling out of it though. 

[Independence]

4 hours ago, ford donald said:

 

Worrying over 6% want to do nothing.

H1B5. KB is infested with them just now! Strange when you remember how many times we beat them last season.........and every season. Always the 'wee team'. 

[brunoatemyhamster]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/sport/germany-s-restart-shows-french-league-could-still-conclude--says-lyon-boss-12711772

 

 

We should have a go. 

[JyTees]

Who the fk voted no? Interlopers?

Edited May 9, 2020 by JyTees

[Zico]

34 minutes ago, JyTees said:

Who the fk voted no? Interlopers?

H1B5 ***** and daft *****. 

 

Hope you and the family are safe and well.