Wage cut for players and staff (Statement on 24/4)

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Apologies for a poor attempt at humour to lighten the mood.

I thought it was quite funny!

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, JamboNation said:

Why aren't we furloughing the squad then we could choose to make up any proportion of the remainder we wish ?

That’s a good point, they have the opportunity to take a 50% cut, we can’t wait forever. If we can do it legally of course.

[RonnieG]

16 minutes ago, cliffdanum said:

Yes u can..u make that role no longer required and you can re hire on different terms conditions but essentially functioning in the re-roled job...ie going from 3 shift system to 2..

Ive been involved in many redundancy situations.   In that situation i would happily take you to court unless you offered me the new role and the new shift system.   You cannot make footballers redundant unless the club is going to be redundant.

[busby1985]

16 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Another 500 odd people have died in the last 24 hours. That’s over a thousand in 48 hours. There is not a chance we are playing games of football this summer. Deferring wages is a really stupid idea.

Something that always seems to be over looked. We are going round and round in circles arguing over this daft wee bubble we call football when in the real world people are actually dying. Last night I entered the statistics as my wife’s best friends husband died of covid. Not even out his 30’s, three kids and a wife. Fit as a fiddle as well. By the time we have a vaccine or this calms down everyone will know

someone or have someone die because of this virus. The players have been very badly advised here. 

[Beast Boy]

6 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

Something that always seems to be over looked. We are going round and round in circles arguing over this daft wee bubble we call football when in the real world people are actually dying. Last night I entered the statistics as my wife’s best friends husband died of covid. Not even out his 30’s, three kids and a wife. Fit as a fiddle as well. By the time we have a vaccine or this calms down everyone will know

someone or have someone die because of this virus. The players have been very badly advised here. 

Horrifying, mate. Sorry to hear that. No age and at least four lives with a great big hole where a loved one once was. The numbers are spine-chilling. Football players and the PFA need to wake the **** up.

[Beast Boy]

29 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

How do you know he has a gambling addiction?  Millions of people have the odd bet.  It doesn’t mean they have an addiction and I’m not aware he has admitted he has a problem although I am aware he is known to frequent such establishments. 
 

I do wonder why such high profile people don’t just do it online though. Not just a dinosaur as a manager but a dinosaur gambler as well!

 

I don’t have much sympathy for gambling addicts to be honest.  Their families, yes, however.

I do have sympathy for gambling addicts. Addictions ruin lives, and are heavily linked to mental health issues, both as a cause and result of the addiction. Often different addictions is just individual manifestations  of the same mental health issues.

[busby1985]

1 minute ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Horrifying, mate. Sorry to hear that. No age and at least four lives with a great big hole where a loved one once was. The numbers are spine-chilling. Football players and the PFA need to wake the **** up.

The most dangerous myth kicking about is the one saying this virus only kills those with under lying health problems. This virus is going to effect us all. Football has to wake up, thankfully loads of people connected to football are starting to wake up. 

[DETTY29]

2 hours ago, Squirt said:

Yeah true and I get the impression Budge isn’t the type of person who would want to do that to anyone, as ruthless as she is I do genuinely believe she has morals and a heart. I was just pointing out that although the players are due criticism over this it’s not as straight forward as the guy makes £100K a year he must have at least 20 or 30 grand in the bank. The majority of these guys aren’t even in their 30s and will be living it large. Clares got 70 grand merc 4x4. Anthony McDonald doesn’t even play in the first team and has a 30 grand merc. (I watch the players drive into the car park btw before I look like a stalker!) fun fact, Levein drives a crappy old Kia Sportage. 
 

 

If an employer really wants rid of someone they’ll get rid of them, I know that from experience from both an employers point of view and the employee. This is football however which is of course a very different minefield.

I'm sure a while ago, may have been an interview with one of our young back up laddies, that many of them were kicking around in decent level BMWs but it may have been Mercedes.

 

It then transpired that the highly responsible SPFA had got a deal with the car manufacturing to get a highly discounted first year deal for all their members.  Year 2,3,4 disposable income slashed unless you were good enough to get improved contracts.

[TheBigO]

19 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

Something that always seems to be over looked. We are going round and round in circles arguing over this daft wee bubble we call football when in the real world people are actually dying. Last night I entered the statistics as my wife’s best friends husband died of covid. Not even out his 30’s, three kids and a wife. Fit as a fiddle as well. By the time we have a vaccine or this calms down everyone will know

someone or have someone die because of this virus. The players have been very badly advised here. 

So sorry to hear that mate. Awful.

 

When you think about it, mate, the basis of the anger on here is that we see it is real and we're losing jobs, money and now friends and family, as you've tragically just shared, but football and its hangers on seem to think they're above it, exempt somehow.

 

I won't take 50% off my 100/200k for a couple of months, but the rest of the world can take 20% off their 20k.

 

I want all my money and your taxes can pay our office staff to facilitate that.

 

That's the messaging we're getting, and that includes the clubs deferring wages if they do so whilst using furlough for other staff, it's an outrage.

[highlandjambo3]

9 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

I'm sure a while ago, may have been an interview with one of our young back up laddies, that many of them were kicking around in decent level BMWs but it may have been Mercedes.

 

It then transpired that the highly responsible SPFA had got a deal with the car manufacturing to get a highly discounted first year deal for all their members.  Year 2,3,4 disposable income slashed unless you were good enough to get improved contracts.

It’s quite possible that cars are leased by hearts and, dished out as part of the players contract agreement.....not itk, do hearts not have Mercedes sponsorship somewhere?

[McCrae]

49 minutes ago, JamboNation said:

Why aren't we furloughing the squad then we could choose to make up any proportion of the remainder we wish ?

The players are still working. They are still training and following instructions from the club. The club expects the players to keep fit. This makes it even harder for the club to avoid paying players the full amount due.
 

Edited April 2, 2020 by McCrae

[busby1985]

5 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

So sorry to hear that mate. Awful.

 

When you think about it, mate, the basis of the anger on here is that we see it is real and we're losing jobs, money and now friends and family, as you've tragically just shared, but football and its hangers on seem to think they're above it, exempt somehow.

 

I won't take 50% off my 100/200k for a couple of months, but the rest of the world can take 20% off their 20k.

 

I want all my money and your taxes can pay our office staff to facilitate that.

 

That's the messaging we're getting, and that includes the clubs deferring wages if they do so whilst using furlough for other staff, it's an outrage.

Yip. Players have been badly advised here, regardless of if they feel the club didn’t act in a manner they felt was correct. They have missed that after all this settles, they have to come back and play for us, something we won’t let them forget. They’ve backed themselves into a horrible corner and made them selves look incredibly selfish. 

[Squirt]

20 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

I'm sure a while ago, may have been an interview with one of our young back up laddies, that many of them were kicking around in decent level BMWs but it may have been Mercedes.

 

It then transpired that the highly responsible SPFA had got a deal with the car manufacturing to get a highly discounted first year deal for all their members.  Year 2,3,4 disposable income slashed unless you were good enough to get improved contracts.

I’ve never heard that but if that’s true that’s almost predatory when it comes to young laddies on their first decent deal. Pretty sure Hearts actually have a partnership with Mercedes so I’d be willing to bet they get good deals across the board for players, but it’ll still be a pretty penny every month! 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Squirt

[Jean Louis Valois]

7 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

So sorry to hear that mate. Awful.

 

When you think about it, mate, the basis of the anger on here is that we see it is real and we're losing jobs, money and now friends and family, as you've tragically just shared, but football and its hangers on seem to think they're above it, exempt somehow.

 

I won't take 50% off my 100/200k for a couple of months, but the rest of the world can take 20% off their 20k.

 

I want all my money and your taxes can pay our office staff to facilitate that.

 

That's the messaging we're getting, and that includes the clubs deferring wages if they do so whilst using furlough for other staff, it's an outrage.

Footballers are really showing themselves up during this. Going to find it very difficult to support any of these erseholes IF any of them ever play for us again.

[Squirt]

33 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

Something that always seems to be over looked. We are going round and round in circles arguing over this daft wee bubble we call football when in the real world people are actually dying. Last night I entered the statistics as my wife’s best friends husband died of covid. Not even out his 30’s, three kids and a wife. Fit as a fiddle as well. By the time we have a vaccine or this calms down everyone will know

someone or have someone die because of this virus. The players have been very badly advised here. 

Sorry to hear that pal. Really puts it all into perspective and I think we’ll almost all have somebody we know or love personally who is effected by it eventually.

[highlandjambo3]

2 hours ago, RonnieG said:

No you are 100% not allowed to do that.   Someone is getting Performance Management and Redundancy mixed up.  If players are not doing their job they can be PM'd out of a job.  But its take upto 9 months and multiple warning etc to build up that evidence.  A forum just saying a player is shite is not evidence from someone being managed out of a job. 

No you are correct, you cannot replace someone who wants to stay in a job with someone else coming in to do the exact same job but, you can change the job title and add in a few more roles and responsibilities but, keep all the old stuff in there as well, effectively a new person doing a new job but covering all the previous stuff.  Happened in a large company I used to manage in who wanted to extend a £300,000,000 contract with the MOD.  A lot of auld dinosaurs fought tooth and nail with their union support as they didn’t want to change anything.  They failed.

[Drumelzier]

The tide is continuing to turn south of the border .....

 

Tax 'obscene' furloughing by football clubs - MPs

Premier League football clubs which do not cut the salaries of highly-paid players while furloughing non-playing staff must be told by the government to pay a windfall tax, says the Department of Culture, Media and Sport parliamentary committee.

DCMS committee chair Julian Knight has written to Chancellor Rishi Sunak urging for sanctions to be brought in to stop clubs pursuing what he describes as "a two-tier system".

"We are facing an obscene situation where top players who aren’t working are continuing to see hundreds of thousands of pounds roll in each week while the staff who keep the clubs going are losing wages," says Mr Knight.

Clubs have come under fire for not deferring the wages of their players, with players' union the Professional Footballers' Association facing criticism for its slow response.

Former England international Gary Lineker says he is "positive" the players will "want to do something to help".

Lineker - now a television presenter - thinks they will "respond in the right way" after agreeing on a course of action, although he thought the PFA rarely gave "great guidance or leadership". 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Are gambling addictions fair game compared to other addictions?

It seems to be if one has an incurable obsession re our former manager.

[OTT]

21 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

So sorry to hear that mate. Awful.

 

When you think about it, mate, the basis of the anger on here is that we see it is real and we're losing jobs, money and now friends and family, as you've tragically just shared, but football and its hangers on seem to think they're above it, exempt somehow.

 

I won't take 50% off my 100/200k for a couple of months, but the rest of the world can take 20% off their 20k.

 

I want all my money and your taxes can pay our office staff to facilitate that.

 

That's the messaging we're getting, and that includes the clubs deferring wages if they do so whilst using furlough for other staff, it's an outrage.

 

 

 

100% right. Loads of people are being forced into losing 20% of their wage. For many this isn't disposable income and despite government assistance will still see their standard of living drop. 

 

The selfishness from these players is breathtakingly arrogant. 

 

Shame we can't dress it up as gross misconduct and punt them tbh. 

 

[Rods]

A lot of these players only confirm what we actually think of them money grabbing shysters.

 

The first people to go should be Levien and Mcphee.

 

 

[davemclaren]

18 minutes ago, Rods said:

A lot of these players only confirm what we actually think of them money grabbing shysters.

 

The first people to go should be Levien and Mcphee.

 

 

I thought they had agreed their reductions? 😎

[Sarah O]

1 hour ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Another 500 odd people have died in the last 24 hours. That’s over a thousand in 48 hours. There is not a chance we are playing games of football this summer. Deferring wages is a really stupid idea.

 

When the players want all these backed up wages at once? 

 

Mental.

[DETTY29]

50 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

It’s quite possible that cars are leased by hearts and, dished out as part of the players contract agreement.....not itk, do hearts not have Mercedes sponsorship somewhere?

 

44 minutes ago, Squirt said:

I’ve never heard that but if that’s true that’s almost predatory when it comes to young laddies on their first decent deal. Pretty sure Hearts actually have a partnership with Mercedes so I’d be willing to bet they get good deals across the board for players, but it’ll still be a pretty penny every month! 

I'm pretty convinced it was at Players Union level.  Unions should be able to get good deals for members but these also to have a form of duty of care.

 

Encouraging teenagers to have flash cars, affordable for a year imo isn't.

Edited April 2, 2020 by DETTY29

[Victorian]

Thousands of people dead

Doctors and nurses dead 

Doctors and nurses still risking their lives

Millions of people out of jobs

Millions of people facing financial ruin

Club staff losing some wages

Government paying those wages

Government forced to destroy economy

Club owners striving to keep clubs alive

 

But some players insist on keeping everything.

 

 

[Diadora Van Basten]

Tottenham furloughing 500 non Playing staff while paying obscene amounts to players doesn’t sit well with me.

 

I read Simon Jordan’s autobiography and he talked about how Daniel Levy kept increasing his offer by £1000 implements. Real Madrid also spoke about how difficult it was to deal with Tottenham over the Gareth Bale deal. It is therefore likely that Tottenham are taking advantage of the situation to take as much free money as possible. I think if they were paying staff off it would not be as many as 500.

 

I am also aware of some small businesses putting family members onto their February payrolls so they can furlough them. 
 

When people say capitalism is for c**** it’s hard to argue.

[jock _turd]

14 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Thousands of people dead

Doctors and nurses dead 

Doctors and nurses still risking their lives

Millions of people out of jobs

Millions of people facing financial ruin

Club staff losing some wages

Government paying those wages

Government forced to destroy economy

Club owners striving to keep clubs alive

 

But some players insist on keeping everything.

 

 

 

I don't know if this is the right thing to say, but in my heart, when all this shit is over I really would like to see football go backwards rather than start right where we are now. I would really like to see football go right back to the where it was in the 50's and 60's . I really would love if the whole football on the tele lark jumped up and bit the mega clubs right on the arse... or maybe even nip their testicles  and absolutely humbled them back to earth. Unlikely to happen but football and football players are taking a rise out of the fans at the present moment  IMO.

[Homme]

I love Hearts but I ****ing hate football at times. 

 

Stayed away from the Terrace recently because its just not important in the grand scheme - not football, not Hearts. 

 

IMO I think we have done the right thing but could have handled it a lot more delicately. 

 

The club have my full support. 

[sac]

13 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

I don't know if this is the right thing to say, but in my heart, when all this shit is over I really would like to see football go backwards rather than start right where we are now. I would really like to see football go right back to the where it was in the 50's and 60's . I really would love if the whole football on the tele lark jumped up and bit the mega clubs right on the arse... or maybe even nip their testicles  and absolutely humbled them back to earth. Unlikely to happen but football and football players are taking a rise out of the fans at the present moment  IMO.

can only see that happening if people turn their back on Sky & BT & drain it of the huge amount of money that pours into the game & is responsible for creating all these overpaid greedy barstewards.

Wage caps would be a start but can’t see that happening either.

[redalir]

Can anyone get the clip from the daily Coronavirus update, where Matt Hancock was asked about Premier League players getting full pay, when other staff  members were being furloughed?

 

It would be good for our players (and PFA Scotland) to see the clip .

Edited April 2, 2020 by redalir

[Beni]

5 minutes ago, redalir said:

Can anyone get the clip from the daily Coronavirus update, where Matt Hancock was asked about Premier League players getting full pay, when other staff  members were being furloughed?

 

It would be good for our players (and PFA Scotland) to see the clip .

 

 

[CornhillHearts]

Atletico Madrid players taking a 70% cut

[CornhillHearts]

[redalir]

6 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

 

Thank you - I think it is worth sharing

[Carl Fredrickson]

43 minutes ago, sac said:

can only see that happening if people turn their back on Sky & BT & drain it of the huge amount of money that pours into the game & is responsible for creating all these overpaid greedy barstewards.

Wage caps would be a start but can’t see that happening either.

 

This is my view too. Cancel SKY/BT Sport subscriptions and the knock on effect will hit the EPL clubs and players. 

[Rods]

2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

I thought they had agreed their reductions? 😎

 

 

Must have missed that 

[busby1985]

I can’t wait to hear what Boyd, McManus, Leckie and the likes have to say about the government

now asking premier league players in England to take pay cuts. 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Rods said:

 

 

Must have missed that 

Very early on in this thread iirc. 

[davemclaren]

Just now, busby1985 said:

I can’t wait to hear what Boyd, McManus, Leckie and the likes have to say about the government

now asking premier league players in England to take pay cuts. 

Nothing I imagine. 

[washniklaw]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52142267

 

PFA Scotland have to be very careful how they play this.  There is real frustration out there verging on anger towards the attitude of footballers.

 

Time for humility! 

[maroonsgotop]

3 hours ago, McCrae said:

The players are still working. They are still training and following instructions from the club. The club expects the players to keep fit. This makes it even harder for the club to avoid paying players the full amount due.
 

not fully working as they are not playing football matches so shouldn't be getting paid in full

[JamboAl1965]

looks like the our club have called this right both economically and in the gauging the mood of the fans to this. A lot of Scottish club players, current and ex I think are badly misjudging this 

[CF11JamTart]

18 minutes ago, JamboAl1965 said:

looks like the our club have called this right both economically and in the gauging the mood of the fans to this. A lot of Scottish club players, current and ex I think are badly misjudging this 

 

And it feels like this is an existential threat to many football clubs in general.

 

Not just any one club in particular. At the end of this, there may be even less money for the remaining clubs to spend on wages. 

 

Players  need to be careful about playing hardball.  Some of "collective reasonableness" from them is necessary to minimise the damage, and make sure that there are clubs in existence in 6, 9, 12 months time to employ them.

 

As for me, i have never felt less of a connection with a bunch of Hearts players, and I'm almost at the end of my tether with football in general.

 

Have I missed it? Surprisingly, not remotely. Although it was great to watch the highlights of 5-1 on BBC iPlayer. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by CF11JamTart
Typo

[jamie1874]

2 hours ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

I am also aware of some small businesses putting family members onto their February payrolls so they can furlough them. 

 

When people say capitalism is for c**** it’s hard to argue.

Interesting how the hell they are doing that.

 

need to be employed and on payroll on 28th Feb.

 

Government Announced the furlough scheme  on 21st March, so how they are managing to back date to show evidence of being an employee pre 28/2 is going to be some amount of fudging, if they are, hopefully HMRC come calling when through this and review the businesses that apply for JRS 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Fully support Ann Article 12ing our entire squad to save the club. 
 

Keep Naismith, Hickey, Smith. Bin the entire rest of the squad. Ok Bozzy you get a year for that goal even though you’re overall pish but that’s it, the rest of you, binned. 
 

2 birds with 1 stone Save the club + empty waste of space players who can’t get themselves motivated to kick a ****ing ball unless they’re playing Hibs or Rangers, they pocket £thousands per week and Hearts are 4 points adrift at the bottom. Get the clowns emptied and safeguard the club. 

[jamboinglasgow]

I think the PFA Scotland should have come out with they negotiating the level of cuts rather than put their cards on just deferring. If the players had said they felt 50% cut of wages for an indefiniate was too severe, they could have argued say a 75% cut and probably have more sympathy. We are seeing a backlash against football which will soon make PFA Scotland rethink their approach.

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, busby1985 said:

I can’t wait to hear what Boyd, McManus, Leckie and the likes have to say about the government

now asking premier league players in England to take pay cuts. 

 

Raab, usually pretty bland was very direct and strong in saying that. 

[JamboAl]

9 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Raab, usually pretty bland was very direct and strong in saying that. 

Matt Hancock?

[Squirt]

3 hours ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

Tottenham furloughing 500 non Playing staff while paying obscene amounts to players doesn’t sit well with me.

 

I read Simon Jordan’s autobiography and he talked about how Daniel Levy kept increasing his offer by £1000 implements. Real Madrid also spoke about how difficult it was to deal with Tottenham over the Gareth Bale deal. It is therefore likely that Tottenham are taking advantage of the situation to take as much free money as possible. I think if they were paying staff off it would not be as many as 500.

 

I am also aware of some small businesses putting family members onto their February payrolls so they can furlough them. 
 

When people say capitalism is for c**** it’s hard to argue.

 

What? Sorry mate but I can't understand that at all.

[SectionDJambo]

2 hours ago, busby1985 said:

I can’t wait to hear what Boyd, McManus, Leckie and the likes have to say about the government

now asking premier league players in England to take pay cuts. 

Pesky public, who don’t live in an ex football player bubble, interfering in the righteous activity of making sure their football mates screw as much money as possible, whilst others take the hit.

[McCrae]

2 hours ago, maroonsgotop said:

not fully working as they are not playing football matches so shouldn't be getting paid in full

players obviously won’t qualify for bonus or appearance money, but they will qualify for basic salary. They don’t need to play games to get this.