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Zlatanable

The rise and fall of The SNP.

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AlphonseCapone
9 minutes ago, Del Monty said:

Words fail me.

 

Good. 

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Zlatanable
1 minute ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

That's fine. I'm utterly comfortable with my choices. 

What level of crime would shake you out of your comfort?

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Cruyff
3 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Power is not numbers in an opinion poll.

Never has been. 

 

Which totally disproves your point. 

 

53 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

 

do you remember #45?

 

I do. The numbers haven't progressed from that, really, in 5 years.

 

 

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AlphonseCapone
5 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

What level of crime would shake you out of your comfort?

 

I don't know, it's not something I worry about given that levels of crime are currently at one of the lowest levels since the early 1970's.

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Zlatanable
1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

 

Which totally disproves your point. 

 

 

If you need that, take it, 

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Zlatanable
2 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

I don't know, it's not something I worry about given that levels of crime are currently at one of the lowest levels since the early 1970's.

so you are comfortable with the alleged sex crimes of the SNP so far.?

Edited by Zlatanable

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AlphonseCapone
Just now, Zlatanable said:

so you are comfortable with the sex crimes of the SNP so far.?

 

Can you explain what you mean? Are you accusing the SNP, a political party, of sex crimes? 

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Zlatanable
Just now, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Can you explain what you mean? Are you accusing the SNP, a political party, of sex crimes? 

The SNP have been in power since  2007.  (they said they would get rid of the council tax)

I am accusing The SNP of using people.

I am accusing The SNP of making life in Scotland worse.

 

I am making a fair and relevant point that the SNP has more than 1 sexual misconduct by senior males, on it's horizon. 

 

 

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Hunky Dory
5 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Back in 2007, it was a very different picture. 

The Holyrood result in 2011 broke the system and allowed a minority view to overshadow the people of Scotland ever since.

 

Since then,  Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon have both failed in their only objective. 

The cost of pursuing an 'the end justifies the means' campaign is returning home to roost. 

And that is before any mention of sexual/financial indiscretions, that have been reported so far.

 

Now, in 2020, it seems like The SNP are finished. 

 

 

Hey! Hey! Over here, look at me, pay me attention!

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Hunky Dory
1 hour ago, Zlatanable said:

The SNP have been in power since  2007.  (they said they would get rid of the council tax)

I am accusing The SNP of using people.

I am accusing The SNP of making life in Scotland worse.

 

I am making a fair and relevant point that the SNP has more than 1 sexual misconduct by senior males, on it's horizon. 

 

 

 

You have a peeve then create threads thinking you're some sort of savvy political sage.  You're an absolute soak.

 

First sentence is a complete giveaway regarding the council tax, it's common knowledge what happened when the SNP proposed change.

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The Mighty Thor

Wow. What a remarkable thread. 

 

Touched all the bases from SNP bad right through to SNP rapist. 

 

Telling that the new narrative of SNP voters and supporters are petty, nasty, racist extremists got an airing in the week that the Westminster government gave the dictionary definition of racist and xenophobic extremism with the new points based immigration system. (One which the Scottish government wants to opt out from)

 

Anyway one man's wishful thinking is one man's wishful thinking. 

 

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John Gentleman
4 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

The Rise and Fall of the SNP = 2007-2020 in power, but failed to convince the people that live  in Scotland, in 13 years, that Independence was worthwhile. 

As you'll see from my location, I'm a long way from all this now. But I will say this: 13 years is a mere blink of the eye in the long game of politics being played out. Scotland has previous as a sovereign nation and may well become one again. If and when, I don't know. Neither do you. Nobody does.

As Harold MacMillan once responded to a challenging question, "Events old chap. It all depends on events....".

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manaliveits105

 

 

Can you work closely and be mentored by someone for years and not know ?

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ri Alban
1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

 

 

Can you work closely and be mentored by someone for years and not know ?

What do you mean? Something like Saville and the Tory party. The Tories invented sleaze.

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gjcc
16 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

What do you mean? Something like Saville and the Tory party. The Tories invented sleaze.


Worse than that, they covered it up for political gain. 
 

Tim Fortescue:

“Anyone with any sense who was in trouble would come to the whips and tell them the truth, and say now, “I’m in a jam, can you help?” It might be debt, it might be a scandal involving small boys, or any kind of scandal which a member seemed likely to be mixed up in, they’d come and ask if we could help. And if we could, we did. We would do everything we can because we would store up brownie points. That sounds a pretty nasty reason but one of the reasons is, if we can get a chap out of trouble, he’ll do as we ask forever more.”

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jack D and coke

I think manky jaicket has joined JKB. 

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Montgomery Brewster
9 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Back in 2007, it was a very different picture. 

The Holyrood result in 2011 broke the system and allowed a minority view to overshadow the people of Scotland ever since.

 

Since then,  Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon have both failed in their only objective. 

The cost of pursuing an 'the end justifies the means' campaign is returning home to roost. 

And that is before any mention of sexual/financial indiscretions, that have been reported so far.

 

Now, in 2020, it seems like The SNP are finished. 

 

You sound like a walking copy of the Daily Mail.

 

putting party politics aside - if any of these characters have done anything illegal they will be found guilty. End of story. 
 

 

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Cade

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Victorian

Actually demented.    

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Justin Z

:lol: What an enjoyable read.

 

Can't wait for Scotland to reach its potential as an independent nation and join it as an immigrant. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

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ri Alban
6 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

:lol: What an enjoyable read.

 

Can't wait for Scotland to reach its potential as an independent nation and join it as an immigrant. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

:jjno:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:D Only joking, you're already a Scot, JZ. 👍

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Roxy Hearts
10 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Back in 2007, it was a very different picture. 

The Holyrood result in 2011 broke the system and allowed a minority view to overshadow the people of Scotland ever since.

 

Since then,  Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon have both failed in their only objective. 

The cost of pursuing an 'the end justifies the means' campaign is returning home to roost. 

And that is before any mention of sexual/financial indiscretions, that have been reported so far.

 

Now, in 2020, it seems like The SNP are finished. 

 

They are the most popular party in Europe in every aspect, UK, Scotland and councils. Your are rather deluded but why am I not surprised. 

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Roxy Hearts
8 hours ago, JustinT said:

The Snp are working within the big UK budget. Could you outline what the budget would be if going it alone? The last time the UK was considering going it alone the leader of the Snp was 'allegedly also going it alone'?

There wouldn't be a budget you stupid fool. It would be Scotland's money, all that we raise. Away back to Ibrox. 

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Phil Dunphy
8 hours ago, Cruyff said:

I'm not an SNP supporter, I think they are fecking useless beyond comprehension, in fact I hate them all, all the parties, I hate politics and politicians but I want Independence for Scotland and will keep voting SNP until that happens.  

 

8 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

FWIW, I do very much think the SNP has stagnated and their record in education and health is pretty appalling.

 

Unfortunately, they'll continue to dominate until independence happens because lots of people will vote for them until that outcome is achieved, and I need to admit that I'm one of them.

 

There's the issue infecting all of British politics. Single issue blinkers.

 

Be it Brexit or Indy2 or whatever, people can't see past that one issue and see the bigger picture. If the SNP did a better job of running this country, you'd see a much, much bigger support for Indy. As it stands, there are enough people who see through that one issue and don't vote for them because all they have is empty rhetoric.

 

"Look at the potential Scotland has".

 

Or, just a thought, you could do better for this country yourselves and more people would believe in this potential you keep speaking of.

 

3 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Wow. What a remarkable thread. 

 

Touched all the bases from SNP bad right through to SNP rapist. 

 

Telling that the new narrative of SNP voters and supporters are petty, nasty, racist extremists got an airing in the week that the Westminster government gave the dictionary definition of racist and xenophobic extremism with the new points based immigration system. (One which the Scottish government wants to opt out from)

 

Anyway one man's wishful thinking is one man's wishful thinking. 

 

 

Much like the narrative of "SNP bad = BritNat" that is constantly banded about then.

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Phil Dunphy
13 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

There wouldn't be a budget you stupid fool. It would be Scotland's money, all that we raise. Away back to Ibrox. 

 

Honestly mate, shut the **** up. There are Hearts supporters out there who don't buy into the SNP or their mantra. That doesn't make them Rangers supporters and, frankly, you're a ****ing moon howler for suggesting it.

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Dawnrazor
9 hours ago, Cruyff said:

You're not seeing the bigger picture here. 

Support for Independence has grown tenfold over the last 20 years.

It has no doubt, but would you agree that it's stalled over the last few years? I'd have thought that with a, relatively, close call in the indie ref and the hatred of all things torie by many in Scotland and the demise of Labour, the SNP would be much further ahead in the indie polls?

It's been a few years now they've had to build a lead and increase thier % in the leave vote, but they've not really don

 

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Dawnrazor
9 hours ago, Cruyff said:

You're not seeing the bigger picture here. 

Support for Independence has grown tenfold over the last 20 years.

It has no doubt, but would you agree that it's stalled over the last few years? I'd have thought that with a, relatively, close call in the indie ref and the hatred of all things torie by many in Scotland and the demise of Labour, the SNP would have increased thier, i admit substantial seat count, and should've been way ahead in the % of leave voters.

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The Mighty Thor
1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

 

There's the issue infecting all of British politics. Single issue blinkers.

 

Be it Brexit or Indy2 or whatever, people can't see past that one issue and see the bigger picture. If the SNP did a better job of running this country, you'd see a much, much bigger support for Indy. As it stands, there are enough people who see through that one issue and don't vote for them because all they have is empty rhetoric.

 

"Look at the potential Scotland has".

 

Or, just a thought, you could do better for this country yourselves and more people would believe in this potential you keep speaking of.

 

 

Much like the narrative of "SNP bad = BritNat" that is constantly banded about then.

Ah whataboutery! The safe haven for an argument with no foundation. 

 

The thread is a car crash with two fatalities. Let it be.

 

 

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Roxy Hearts
1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Honestly mate, shut the **** up. There are Hearts supporters out there who don't buy into the SNP or their mantra. That doesn't make them Rangers supporters and, frankly, you're a ****ing moon howler for suggesting it.

Get lost. No time for uncle Tom's like you. You've no faith in the people of Scotland so go and do one and up your game. 

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jambogaza

Wishful thinking. 

 

All current polls point to a pro independence majority. I'll trust them over the bizarre OP, thanks. 

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Cruyff
2 hours ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

 

There's the issue infecting all of British politics. Single issue blinkers.

 

Be it Brexit or Indy2 or whatever, people can't see past that one issue and see the bigger picture. If the SNP did a better job of running this country, you'd see a much, much bigger support for Indy. As it stands, there are enough people who see through that one issue and don't vote for them because all they have is empty rhetoric.

 

"Look at the potential Scotland has".

 

Or, just a thought, you could do better for this country yourselves and more people would believe in this potential you keep speaking of.

 

 

Much like the narrative of "SNP bad = BritNat" that is constantly banded about then.

You're N. Irish are you not? 

 

Im not blinkered about anything. I might hate politics and economics etc.. That doesn't mean i don't know the ins and outs of it. 

 

I'll vote for the most likely party that can get Scotland independence because I don't believe the UK works, I don't believe the system to be democratic, I don't want to be ruled by England and I believe Scotlands best potential is served as an Independent Sovereign Nation. 

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Cruyff
1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said:

It has no doubt, but would you agree that it's stalled over the last few years? I'd have thought that with a, relatively, close call in the indie ref and the hatred of all things torie by many in Scotland and the demise of Labour, the SNP would be much further ahead in the indie polls?

It's been a few years now they've had to build a lead and increase thier % in the leave vote, but they've not really don

 

I don't believe that you'll ever get a poll showing support continuously for Indy at say 55%. 

 

I posted 17 years worth of polling on Devolution. 

Support Independence has higher numbers than Devolution had and Devolution happened.. 

 

The demographics are in Pro Independences favour. Just like they are in N. Ireland. The UK is finished. 

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jack D and coke
3 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

You're N. Irish are you not? 

 

Im not blinkered about anything. I might hate politics and economics etc.. That doesn't mean i don't know the ins and outs of it. 

 

I'll vote for the most likely party that can get Scotland independence because I don't believe the UK works, I don't believe the system to be democratic, I don't want to be ruled by England and I believe Scotlands best potential is served as an Independent Sovereign Nation. 

But if independent how would Scotland ever be able to declare war on someone? Bet you didn’t think of that. 

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Cruyff
Just now, jack D and coke said:

But if independent how would Scotland ever be able to declare war on someone? Bet you didn’t think of that. 

I don't get it. 

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ri Alban
1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

I don't get it. 

It's :sarcasm:

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Dawnrazor
2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I don't believe that you'll ever get a poll showing support continuously for Indy at say 55%. 

 

I posted 17 years worth of polling on Devolution. 

Support Independence has higher numbers than Devolution had and Devolution happened.. 

 

The demographics are in Pro Independences favour. Just like they are in N. Ireland. The UK is finished. 

If you don't get a sustained voting intention of above the 55% as you say, will the SNP want a referendum? 

I obviously disagree with your last paragraph!

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jack D and coke
5 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I don't get it. 

Sorry man being a bit sarcy. Not at you👍🏼

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JackLadd

They are in tatters although a mixture of idiocy and arrogance means they don't know it. 

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AlphonseCapone
2 hours ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

 

There's the issue infecting all of British politics. Single issue blinkers.

 

Be it Brexit or Indy2 or whatever, people can't see past that one issue and see the bigger picture. If the SNP did a better job of running this country, you'd see a much, much bigger support for Indy. As it stands, there are enough people who see through that one issue and don't vote for them because all they have is empty rhetoric.

 

"Look at the potential Scotland has".

 

Or, just a thought, you could do better for this country yourselves and more people would believe in this potential you keep speaking of.

 

But these aren't simple single issues, they go straight to the heart of our democracy and specifically where that power sits. There is no bigger issue. It's not like being obsessed by immigration for example. Both Brexit and Independence are fundamental issues that determine who decides on every other single issue. 

 

Thought experiment for you. You're from Northern Ireland. If Sinn Féin (forgetting any IRA history) or a completely different party if the example is too loaded using them, had policies that matched your views perfectly, but they also were 100% in support of a united Ireland, would you vote for them? (And I used Sinn Féin rather than the SDLP so we are talking about voting for a party who could have enough votes to actually be in Government, so your vote really means something). 

 

Hand on heart, truthful answer. There is obviously no right or wrong response. Would that single issue of Irish reunification be enough to stop you voting for them? 

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Cruyff
15 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Sorry man being a bit sarcy. Not at you👍🏼

Got you now. LOL 

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Roxy Hearts
19 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

They are in tatters although a mixture of idiocy and arrogance means they don't know it. 

We are not talking about that hole, Westminster and the morons that infest it. 

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Cruyff
33 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

If you don't get a sustained voting intention of above the 55% as you say, will the SNP want a referendum? 

I obviously disagree with your last paragraph!

I don't think you'll ever get a sustained 55% for Indy or the Status Quo in the polls. 

I think the highest you'd ever see is 47%-49%-52% because there will always be a +/- 3% margin of error and at least 5-10% undecided. 

 

As with Devolution, there was twice a majority for it in the polls over a 17 year period, the highest at 52%. Right up until 1995 it was only in the mid 40%. In the end, it was 74.9% in favour during the 97 referendum. 

 

We haven't yet felt the effects that Brexit might have on Scotland. We haven't seen what tricks the UK government might play in riding roughshod over Devolution. This Tory Government has already pulled out the EVEL card on matters that affect Scotland. It's yet to play out. These things will have an affect on people's attitudes. 

 

Edited by Cruyff

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Beast Boy
10 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

The SNP have been in power since  2007.  (they said they would get rid of the council tax)

I am accusing The SNP of using people.

I am accusing The SNP of making life in Scotland worse.

 

I am making a fair and relevant point that the SNP has more than 1 sexual misconduct by senior males, on it's horizon. 

 

 


Dearie me. 

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Phil Dunphy
2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Ah whataboutery! The safe haven for an argument with no foundation. 

 

The thread is a car crash with two fatalities. Let it be.

 

 

 

Whataboutery would be deflecting the issue. I'm happy to admit that not all Scottish Nationalists are anti-English xenophobes and racists. All I'm doing is highlighting that hyperbolic rhetoric is prevalent on both sides.

 

2 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Get lost. No time for uncle Tom's like you. You've no faith in the people of Scotland so go and do one and up your game. 

 

If idiots like you have no time for the likes of me, then I'll take great happiness in that. Only an absolute cretin would believe that all genuine Hearts supporters support independence, while the pro-Union lot must all support Rangers. Scotland being left to the likes of you gives me the utmost fear. Because you're a gibbering fool.

 

52 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

You're N. Irish are you not? 

 

Im not blinkered about anything. I might hate politics and economics etc.. That doesn't mean i don't know the ins and outs of it. 

 

I'll vote for the most likely party that can get Scotland independence because I don't believe the UK works, I don't believe the system to be democratic, I don't want to be ruled by England and I believe Scotlands best potential is served as an Independent Sovereign Nation. 

 

Being Northern Irish is pretty irrelevant when I live, work and was schooled in Scotland. 

 

I'm not saying you don't know anything about politics, I'm saying people voting for a party based on a single policy even when their record on the things they want you to judge them on is pretty shambolic. I oppose another independence referendum, but I don't vote Conservative because they're the most vocal opposition. Because they've a terrible record of running the UK.

 

35 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

But these aren't simple single issues, they go straight to the heart of our democracy and specifically where that power sits. There is no bigger issue. It's not like being obsessed by immigration for example. Both Brexit and Independence are fundamental issues that determine who decides on every other single issue. 

 

Thought experiment for you. You're from Northern Ireland. If Sinn Féin (forgetting any IRA history) or a completely different party if the example is too loaded using them, had policies that matched your views perfectly, but they also were 100% in support of a united Ireland, would you vote for them? (And I used Sinn Féin rather than the SDLP so we are talking about voting for a party who could have enough votes to actually be in Government, so your vote really means something). 

 

Hand on heart, truthful answer. There is obviously no right or wrong response. Would that single issue of Irish reunification be enough to stop you voting for them? 

 

The two scenarios aren't comparable. Your country exists, you're asking if I'd ever vote for mine to cease to exist, which is an obvious no.

 

People often forget that the differences between Northern Ireland and the Republic are larger than that of England and Scotland.

 

Edited by Phil Dunphy

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IronJambo
11 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Of course you don't.

 

Here's some historic polling for you on Independence and Devolution pre Devo. 

 

Looks familiar. 

 

Screenshot_20200222-023321.thumb.png.e07d460f46ccdb926b3f16820845b1cd.png

Screenshot_20200222-023336.thumb.png.86d091a4b4b93bf4583622a754b651e1.png

Screenshot_20200222-023357.thumb.png.e7eb399637d08795f3d8198f49d74f04.png

Screenshot_20200222-023411.thumb.png.97b0abcc01dbcfd4b7c70443c21f2fd5.png

 

Just to confirm, a whole 9% said they would vote for independence under the current circumstances. Looks like Scottish independence is just around the corner!

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Cruyff
2 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Being Northern Irish is pretty irrelevant when I live, work and was schooled in Scotland. 

 

I'm not saying you don't know anything about politics, I'm saying people voting for a party based on a single policy even when their record on the things they want you to judge them on is pretty shambolic. I oppose another independence referendum, but I don't vote Conservative because they're the most vocal opposition. Because they've a terrible record of running the UK.

In normal circumstances I'd totally agree. 

 

If Scotland were an Independent Country and the SNP were in power, there is no chance in a million years that I would vote for them. I'd be far more inclined to vote on matters of policy and their record in government. 

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Cruyff
1 minute ago, IronJambo said:

Just to confirm, a whole 9% said they would vote for independence under the current circumstances. Looks like Scottish independence is just around the corner!

In April 1995. 

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Phil Dunphy
1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

In normal circumstances I'd totally agree. 

 

If Scotland were an Independent Country and the SNP were in power, there is no chance in a million years that I would vote for them. I'd be far more inclined to vote on matters of policy and their record in government. 

 

People will vote for what they believe in, it's how democracy works. But it feels like a lot more people are voting with their hearts than their heads and that worries me.

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IronJambo
2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

In April 1995. 

So you're saying that the poll you posted has no relevance to today? Odd you would post it to demonstrate anything in that case.

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XB52
11 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

So you're saying that the poll you posted has no relevance to today? Odd you would post it to demonstrate anything in that case.

Maybe read why he posted it first. Or just go SNP bad like the 2 loonies on here

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