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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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6 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

:lol: What an enjoyable read.

 

Can't wait for Scotland to reach its potential as an independent nation and join it as an immigrant. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

:jjno:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:D Only joking, you're already a Scot, JZ. 👍

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10 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Back in 2007, it was a very different picture. 

The Holyrood result in 2011 broke the system and allowed a minority view to overshadow the people of Scotland ever since.

 

Since then,  Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon have both failed in their only objective. 

The cost of pursuing an 'the end justifies the means' campaign is returning home to roost. 

And that is before any mention of sexual/financial indiscretions, that have been reported so far.

 

Now, in 2020, it seems like The SNP are finished. 

 

They are the most popular party in Europe in every aspect, UK, Scotland and councils. Your are rather deluded but why am I not surprised. 

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8 hours ago, JustinT said:

The Snp are working within the big UK budget. Could you outline what the budget would be if going it alone? The last time the UK was considering going it alone the leader of the Snp was 'allegedly also going it alone'?

There wouldn't be a budget you stupid fool. It would be Scotland's money, all that we raise. Away back to Ibrox. 

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8 hours ago, Cruyff said:

I'm not an SNP supporter, I think they are fecking useless beyond comprehension, in fact I hate them all, all the parties, I hate politics and politicians but I want Independence for Scotland and will keep voting SNP until that happens.  

 

8 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

FWIW, I do very much think the SNP has stagnated and their record in education and health is pretty appalling.

 

Unfortunately, they'll continue to dominate until independence happens because lots of people will vote for them until that outcome is achieved, and I need to admit that I'm one of them.

 

There's the issue infecting all of British politics. Single issue blinkers.

 

Be it Brexit or Indy2 or whatever, people can't see past that one issue and see the bigger picture. If the SNP did a better job of running this country, you'd see a much, much bigger support for Indy. As it stands, there are enough people who see through that one issue and don't vote for them because all they have is empty rhetoric.

 

"Look at the potential Scotland has".

 

Or, just a thought, you could do better for this country yourselves and more people would believe in this potential you keep speaking of.

 

3 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Wow. What a remarkable thread. 

 

Touched all the bases from SNP bad right through to SNP rapist. 

 

Telling that the new narrative of SNP voters and supporters are petty, nasty, racist extremists got an airing in the week that the Westminster government gave the dictionary definition of racist and xenophobic extremism with the new points based immigration system. (One which the Scottish government wants to opt out from)

 

Anyway one man's wishful thinking is one man's wishful thinking. 

 

 

Much like the narrative of "SNP bad = BritNat" that is constantly banded about then.

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13 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

There wouldn't be a budget you stupid fool. It would be Scotland's money, all that we raise. Away back to Ibrox. 

 

Honestly mate, shut the **** up. There are Hearts supporters out there who don't buy into the SNP or their mantra. That doesn't make them Rangers supporters and, frankly, you're a ****ing moon howler for suggesting it.

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9 hours ago, Cruyff said:

You're not seeing the bigger picture here. 

Support for Independence has grown tenfold over the last 20 years.

It has no doubt, but would you agree that it's stalled over the last few years? I'd have thought that with a, relatively, close call in the indie ref and the hatred of all things torie by many in Scotland and the demise of Labour, the SNP would be much further ahead in the indie polls?

It's been a few years now they've had to build a lead and increase thier % in the leave vote, but they've not really don

 

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9 hours ago, Cruyff said:

You're not seeing the bigger picture here. 

Support for Independence has grown tenfold over the last 20 years.

It has no doubt, but would you agree that it's stalled over the last few years? I'd have thought that with a, relatively, close call in the indie ref and the hatred of all things torie by many in Scotland and the demise of Labour, the SNP would have increased thier, i admit substantial seat count, and should've been way ahead in the % of leave voters.

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The Mighty Thor
1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

 

There's the issue infecting all of British politics. Single issue blinkers.

 

Be it Brexit or Indy2 or whatever, people can't see past that one issue and see the bigger picture. If the SNP did a better job of running this country, you'd see a much, much bigger support for Indy. As it stands, there are enough people who see through that one issue and don't vote for them because all they have is empty rhetoric.

 

"Look at the potential Scotland has".

 

Or, just a thought, you could do better for this country yourselves and more people would believe in this potential you keep speaking of.

 

 

Much like the narrative of "SNP bad = BritNat" that is constantly banded about then.

Ah whataboutery! The safe haven for an argument with no foundation. 

 

The thread is a car crash with two fatalities. Let it be.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Honestly mate, shut the **** up. There are Hearts supporters out there who don't buy into the SNP or their mantra. That doesn't make them Rangers supporters and, frankly, you're a ****ing moon howler for suggesting it.

Get lost. No time for uncle Tom's like you. You've no faith in the people of Scotland so go and do one and up your game. 

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2 hours ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

 

There's the issue infecting all of British politics. Single issue blinkers.

 

Be it Brexit or Indy2 or whatever, people can't see past that one issue and see the bigger picture. If the SNP did a better job of running this country, you'd see a much, much bigger support for Indy. As it stands, there are enough people who see through that one issue and don't vote for them because all they have is empty rhetoric.

 

"Look at the potential Scotland has".

 

Or, just a thought, you could do better for this country yourselves and more people would believe in this potential you keep speaking of.

 

 

Much like the narrative of "SNP bad = BritNat" that is constantly banded about then.

You're N. Irish are you not? 

 

Im not blinkered about anything. I might hate politics and economics etc.. That doesn't mean i don't know the ins and outs of it. 

 

I'll vote for the most likely party that can get Scotland independence because I don't believe the UK works, I don't believe the system to be democratic, I don't want to be ruled by England and I believe Scotlands best potential is served as an Independent Sovereign Nation. 

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1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said:

It has no doubt, but would you agree that it's stalled over the last few years? I'd have thought that with a, relatively, close call in the indie ref and the hatred of all things torie by many in Scotland and the demise of Labour, the SNP would be much further ahead in the indie polls?

It's been a few years now they've had to build a lead and increase thier % in the leave vote, but they've not really don

 

I don't believe that you'll ever get a poll showing support continuously for Indy at say 55%. 

 

I posted 17 years worth of polling on Devolution. 

Support Independence has higher numbers than Devolution had and Devolution happened.. 

 

The demographics are in Pro Independences favour. Just like they are in N. Ireland. The UK is finished. 

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jack D and coke
3 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

You're N. Irish are you not? 

 

Im not blinkered about anything. I might hate politics and economics etc.. That doesn't mean i don't know the ins and outs of it. 

 

I'll vote for the most likely party that can get Scotland independence because I don't believe the UK works, I don't believe the system to be democratic, I don't want to be ruled by England and I believe Scotlands best potential is served as an Independent Sovereign Nation. 

But if independent how would Scotland ever be able to declare war on someone? Bet you didn’t think of that. 

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Just now, jack D and coke said:

But if independent how would Scotland ever be able to declare war on someone? Bet you didn’t think of that. 

I don't get it. 

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2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I don't believe that you'll ever get a poll showing support continuously for Indy at say 55%. 

 

I posted 17 years worth of polling on Devolution. 

Support Independence has higher numbers than Devolution had and Devolution happened.. 

 

The demographics are in Pro Independences favour. Just like they are in N. Ireland. The UK is finished. 

If you don't get a sustained voting intention of above the 55% as you say, will the SNP want a referendum? 

I obviously disagree with your last paragraph!

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AlphonseCapone
2 hours ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

 

There's the issue infecting all of British politics. Single issue blinkers.

 

Be it Brexit or Indy2 or whatever, people can't see past that one issue and see the bigger picture. If the SNP did a better job of running this country, you'd see a much, much bigger support for Indy. As it stands, there are enough people who see through that one issue and don't vote for them because all they have is empty rhetoric.

 

"Look at the potential Scotland has".

 

Or, just a thought, you could do better for this country yourselves and more people would believe in this potential you keep speaking of.

 

But these aren't simple single issues, they go straight to the heart of our democracy and specifically where that power sits. There is no bigger issue. It's not like being obsessed by immigration for example. Both Brexit and Independence are fundamental issues that determine who decides on every other single issue. 

 

Thought experiment for you. You're from Northern Ireland. If Sinn Féin (forgetting any IRA history) or a completely different party if the example is too loaded using them, had policies that matched your views perfectly, but they also were 100% in support of a united Ireland, would you vote for them? (And I used Sinn Féin rather than the SDLP so we are talking about voting for a party who could have enough votes to actually be in Government, so your vote really means something). 

 

Hand on heart, truthful answer. There is obviously no right or wrong response. Would that single issue of Irish reunification be enough to stop you voting for them? 

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19 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

They are in tatters although a mixture of idiocy and arrogance means they don't know it. 

We are not talking about that hole, Westminster and the morons that infest it. 

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33 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

If you don't get a sustained voting intention of above the 55% as you say, will the SNP want a referendum? 

I obviously disagree with your last paragraph!

I don't think you'll ever get a sustained 55% for Indy or the Status Quo in the polls. 

I think the highest you'd ever see is 47%-49%-52% because there will always be a +/- 3% margin of error and at least 5-10% undecided. 

 

As with Devolution, there was twice a majority for it in the polls over a 17 year period, the highest at 52%. Right up until 1995 it was only in the mid 40%. In the end, it was 74.9% in favour during the 97 referendum. 

 

We haven't yet felt the effects that Brexit might have on Scotland. We haven't seen what tricks the UK government might play in riding roughshod over Devolution. This Tory Government has already pulled out the EVEL card on matters that affect Scotland. It's yet to play out. These things will have an affect on people's attitudes. 

 

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10 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

The SNP have been in power since  2007.  (they said they would get rid of the council tax)

I am accusing The SNP of using people.

I am accusing The SNP of making life in Scotland worse.

 

I am making a fair and relevant point that the SNP has more than 1 sexual misconduct by senior males, on it's horizon. 

 

 


Dearie me. 

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2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Ah whataboutery! The safe haven for an argument with no foundation. 

 

The thread is a car crash with two fatalities. Let it be.

 

 

 

Whataboutery would be deflecting the issue. I'm happy to admit that not all Scottish Nationalists are anti-English xenophobes and racists. All I'm doing is highlighting that hyperbolic rhetoric is prevalent on both sides.

 

2 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Get lost. No time for uncle Tom's like you. You've no faith in the people of Scotland so go and do one and up your game. 

 

If idiots like you have no time for the likes of me, then I'll take great happiness in that. Only an absolute cretin would believe that all genuine Hearts supporters support independence, while the pro-Union lot must all support Rangers. Scotland being left to the likes of you gives me the utmost fear. Because you're a gibbering fool.

 

52 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

You're N. Irish are you not? 

 

Im not blinkered about anything. I might hate politics and economics etc.. That doesn't mean i don't know the ins and outs of it. 

 

I'll vote for the most likely party that can get Scotland independence because I don't believe the UK works, I don't believe the system to be democratic, I don't want to be ruled by England and I believe Scotlands best potential is served as an Independent Sovereign Nation. 

 

Being Northern Irish is pretty irrelevant when I live, work and was schooled in Scotland. 

 

I'm not saying you don't know anything about politics, I'm saying people voting for a party based on a single policy even when their record on the things they want you to judge them on is pretty shambolic. I oppose another independence referendum, but I don't vote Conservative because they're the most vocal opposition. Because they've a terrible record of running the UK.

 

35 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

But these aren't simple single issues, they go straight to the heart of our democracy and specifically where that power sits. There is no bigger issue. It's not like being obsessed by immigration for example. Both Brexit and Independence are fundamental issues that determine who decides on every other single issue. 

 

Thought experiment for you. You're from Northern Ireland. If Sinn Féin (forgetting any IRA history) or a completely different party if the example is too loaded using them, had policies that matched your views perfectly, but they also were 100% in support of a united Ireland, would you vote for them? (And I used Sinn Féin rather than the SDLP so we are talking about voting for a party who could have enough votes to actually be in Government, so your vote really means something). 

 

Hand on heart, truthful answer. There is obviously no right or wrong response. Would that single issue of Irish reunification be enough to stop you voting for them? 

 

The two scenarios aren't comparable. Your country exists, you're asking if I'd ever vote for mine to cease to exist, which is an obvious no.

 

People often forget that the differences between Northern Ireland and the Republic are larger than that of England and Scotland.

 

Edited by Phil Dunphy
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11 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Of course you don't.

 

Here's some historic polling for you on Independence and Devolution pre Devo. 

 

Looks familiar. 

 

Screenshot_20200222-023321.thumb.png.e07d460f46ccdb926b3f16820845b1cd.png

Screenshot_20200222-023336.thumb.png.86d091a4b4b93bf4583622a754b651e1.png

Screenshot_20200222-023357.thumb.png.e7eb399637d08795f3d8198f49d74f04.png

Screenshot_20200222-023411.thumb.png.97b0abcc01dbcfd4b7c70443c21f2fd5.png

 

Just to confirm, a whole 9% said they would vote for independence under the current circumstances. Looks like Scottish independence is just around the corner!

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2 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Being Northern Irish is pretty irrelevant when I live, work and was schooled in Scotland. 

 

I'm not saying you don't know anything about politics, I'm saying people voting for a party based on a single policy even when their record on the things they want you to judge them on is pretty shambolic. I oppose another independence referendum, but I don't vote Conservative because they're the most vocal opposition. Because they've a terrible record of running the UK.

In normal circumstances I'd totally agree. 

 

If Scotland were an Independent Country and the SNP were in power, there is no chance in a million years that I would vote for them. I'd be far more inclined to vote on matters of policy and their record in government. 

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1 minute ago, IronJambo said:

Just to confirm, a whole 9% said they would vote for independence under the current circumstances. Looks like Scottish independence is just around the corner!

In April 1995. 

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1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

In normal circumstances I'd totally agree. 

 

If Scotland were an Independent Country and the SNP were in power, there is no chance in a million years that I would vote for them. I'd be far more inclined to vote on matters of policy and their record in government. 

 

People will vote for what they believe in, it's how democracy works. But it feels like a lot more people are voting with their hearts than their heads and that worries me.

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2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

In April 1995. 

So you're saying that the poll you posted has no relevance to today? Odd you would post it to demonstrate anything in that case.

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11 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

So you're saying that the poll you posted has no relevance to today? Odd you would post it to demonstrate anything in that case.

Maybe read why he posted it first. Or just go SNP bad like the 2 loonies on here

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3 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Maybe read why he posted it first. Or just go SNP bad like the 2 loonies on here

I read it. He's basically said it was irrelevant. 

 

Edit: that aside, it doesn't really demonstrate a lot. The figures are very muchy muchy with the odd spike.

Edited by IronJambo
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29 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

People will vote for what they believe in, it's how democracy works. But it feels like a lot more people are voting with their hearts than their heads and that worries me.

I've thought about quite a bit over the last 15-16 years, there is no other viable option. For me the status quo and Devolution has not solved any of the issues. 

 

26 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

So you're saying that the poll you posted has no relevance to today? Odd you would post it to demonstrate anything in that case.

:vrface:

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13 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

I read it. He's basically said it was irrelevant. 

 

Edit: that aside, it doesn't really demonstrate a lot. The figures are very muchy muchy with the odd spike.

Dj2OT-TXsAAPGFX.jpg.c3150dbce8fc86a55034da8e30fd27c2.jpg

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4 hours ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

 

There's the issue infecting all of British politics. Single issue blinkers.

 

Be it Brexit or Indy2 or whatever, people can't see past that one issue and see the bigger picture. If the SNP did a better job of running this country, you'd see a much, much bigger support for Indy. As it stands, there are enough people who see through that one issue and don't vote for them because all they have is empty rhetoric.

 

"Look at the potential Scotland has".

 

Or, just a thought, you could do better for this country yourselves and more people would believe in this potential you keep speaking of.

 

 

Much like the narrative of "SNP bad = BritNat" that is constantly banded about then.


Do you realize “do a better job of running the country” sounds hollow and empty? Nothing more that a lazy unionist soundbite snagged straight out of the telegraph.

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Last few polls on Indy over 50%

returning 80% of MPs

EU pretty much saying if we want it we're in. 

 

Can I assume that this is denial then?

 

Fact is that despite being in power since 2007 SNP have grown in strength. This is a nonsense line being peddled by a British backed media. I suppose Cummings plan for keeping us is to tell us how the SNP are fading despite all evidence to the contrary. 


Ridiculous. 

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7 minutes ago, OTT said:

EU pretty much saying if we want it we're in. 

 

That isn't remotely true, is it.  Other than having a pop at the UK government for Brexit negotiations by buttering up Scotland and humoring the SNP, they aren't giving you any promises or guarantees.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eu-would-be-tough-on-membership-after-scottish-independence-martin-schulz-says-t5ntpc89x

 

The pathetic stunt the SNP played by paying someone to beam onto their building won't have helped their cause either.

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1 hour ago, Hunky Dory said:


Do you realize “do a better job of running the country” sounds hollow and empty? Nothing more that a lazy unionist soundbite snagged straight out of the telegraph.


I don’t read the Telegraph. Or the Daily Mail. Or Express. Or any of the red tops. Or the National. 
 

But thanks for trying to patronise me. I’ll ignore you, along with the rest of your ilk though. Cheerio. 
 

1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Not all Hearts fans are unionists ya jungle dweller, of course they're not! Away sort out your own region's problems. 


Telling me to go back where I came from, eh? Is that civic Nationalism I detect? :laugh:

 

You're a ****ing embarrassment. Even by the low standards you clearly set yourself, you’re a complete welt. 

Edited by Phil Dunphy
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1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

That isn't remotely true, is it.  Other than having a pop at the UK government for Brexit negotiations by buttering up Scotland and humoring the SNP, they aren't giving you any promises or guarantees.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eu-would-be-tough-on-membership-after-scottish-independence-martin-schulz-says-t5ntpc89x

 

The pathetic stunt the SNP played by paying someone to beam onto their building won't have helped their cause either.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/02/donald-tusk-eu-would-be-enthusiastic-if-scotland-applied-to-rejoin

 

'Tusk: EU would be enthusiastic if Scotland applied to rejoin'.

 

Its absolutely ridiculous to try and argue otherwise whilst prominent EU officials are stopping short of saying its a certainty. This is as good an answer you are ever going to get around such circumstances. 

 

If we get independence and apply for EU membership we will get it. Ludicrous fear-mongering to suggest otherwise. 

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manaliveits105

Out of today’s EEN 

1 patient waits 5 hours for ambulance questions asked of snp

2 Cancer hospital put back another 5 years questions asked of snp

3 Poor exam results questions asked of snp

one nights paper ffs

they are a shambles 

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1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:


I don’t read the Telegraph. Or the Daily Mail. Or Express. Or any of the red tops. Or the National. 
 

But thanks for trying to patronise me. I’ll ignore you, along with the rest of your ilk though. Cheerio. 
 


Telling me to go back where I came from, eh? Is that civic Nationalism I detect? :laugh:

 

You're a ****ing embarrassment. Even by the low standards you clearly set yourself, you’re a complete welt. 

I'm glad I annoy you. I'm happy for anyone to live in Scotland but it's a bit rich commenting on our civic nationalism when there are larger problems elsewhere. Maybe Ireland will be united after all. 

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1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:


I don’t read the Telegraph. Or the Daily Mail. Or Express. Or any of the red tops. Or the National. 
 

But thanks for trying to patronise me. I’ll ignore you, along with the rest of your ilk though. Cheerio. 
 


Telling me to go back where I came from, eh? Is that civic Nationalism I detect? :laugh:

 

You're a ****ing embarrassment. Even by the low standards you clearly set yourself, you’re a complete welt. 


The true face of unionism. Bitter, angry, no substance, incapable of debate, and never presenting a positive case.

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2 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I'm glad I annoy you. I'm happy for anyone to live in Scotland but it's a bit rich commenting on our civic nationalism when there are larger problems elsewhere. Maybe Ireland will be united after all. 

So, the same single issue fanatics support separating Scotland , uniting Ireland and joining the EU. Off the scale bizarre with a common anti- English thread running through it. I've got news for you...we are not, by your, or Sturgeon's definition, an equal partner in the UK. Nor are we entitled to be. We are 8% of the population and we have a per capita share of power in Westminster but receive £2k per head extra in public spending. That maybe doesn't resonate among the core support in Dundee or Glasgow but if they want to have a go at a pilot exercise in full fiscal autonomy in those 2 cities then I'm all for it.

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3 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:


The true face of unionism. Bitter, angry, no substance, incapable of debate, and never presenting a positive case.

To fair that can be pointed at both sides of the indie 'debate" on here.

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2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

So, the same single issue fanatics support separating Scotland , uniting Ireland and joining the EU. Off the scale bizarre with a common anti- English thread running through it. I've got news for you...we are not, by your, or Sturgeon's definition, an equal partner in the UK. Nor are we entitled to be. We are 8% of the population and we have a per capita share of power in Westminster but receive £2k per head extra in public spending. That maybe doesn't resonate among the core support in Dundee or Glasgow but if they want to have a go at a pilot exercise in full fiscal autonomy in those 2 cities then I'm all for it.

What a lot of utter garbage. 2 trillion English debt......... 

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4 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

What a lot of utter garbage. 2 trillion English debt......... 

English debt???  Really? Covered by English tax payers , true, but generated disproprionately by Scotland. You don't wslk away from that without becoming a pariah state.

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7 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Out of today’s EEN 

1 patient waits 5 hours for ambulance questions asked of snp


I saw that sensationalist piece. Bloke triaged by call handlers, put down on the priority list as nothing imminently wrong with him other than pain exacerbated by a previous condition.

Uproar as he was only given a trolley in A&E and not a bed (A&E is all trolleys, not beds).
The bloke had to wait hours in A&E but was mentioned to have not broken any bones or any lasting physical concerns, so he’d obviously been assessed, potentially even an x-Ray. Hardly as if he’d just been left waiting untreated.

Wife took him home, and he got a script for pain relief from his GP. 

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