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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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jack D and coke
On 22/11/2021 at 16:30, jonesy said:

:thumbs_up:

 

With the obvious issues around Brexit having a negative impact for the instigating divorcee (the UK), do you worry that there would be a similar occurrence if Scotland were to leave the UK? And, if so, what buffers could be put in place by any independence coalition to ensure that this doesn't happen (or that its impact is reduced)?

Like most people im not sure how it plays out exactly but you have to hope that some pragmatism takes over if it was to happen , but I don’t worry about it. I don’t think it’s like before union when England could really screw us over the world trade has changed and ireland enjoys fantastic trade with uk you’d certainly hope that we’d all act like grown ups and have similar. I lot will depend on our EU status though. 
I won’t pretend I know what might or might not happen or even suggest what buffers could be used. I’m also open to others opinions about it. 
I haven’t whined about brexit and believe they have to deliver it after the uk as a whole voted for it end of the day - regardless of vote percentages here and there and that includes Scotland. One thing that boils my piss is the new talk of partioning Scotland after an indy vote. Why wasn’t there similar after the brexit vote? It’s constant goal post moving from the No side even to the point I see them saying what even is Scotland and it’s people now…Before the last one they were as Scottish as anyone but now we don’t really exist or something :lol: 
I have my doubts that this current SNP lot actually want or believe in it though. It’s absolutely night and day from Salmond’s SNP who seem more concerned with all this weird trans nonsense. 
Sturgeon mentions Independence around election time then does absolutely nothing to build anything to make people believe in it. If not already there she’s very close to end of shelf life imo. 
I didn’t answer this yesterday as I need to be in the mood to discuss it and I’ll be honest at this moment I CBFA. 
Just didn’t want to sling you a deefy👍🏼


 

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jack D and coke
1 minute ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

No, simply because he was/is an utter welt. :)

 

 

I remember Tripper suggesting he was a “big hitter” when he was announced :rofl: 
I wish I could find the clip of him admiring himself on a political show, was FAF. 

Always talk of this and that about how unsavoury the indyref was and the worst that happened was that knobend got hit by an egg when he was standing on a chair in Kirkcaldy shouting :lol: 
What. A. Cock. 
 

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7 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Well, if I'm correct, a "gammon" has right wing, eh tendencies, Murphy is FAR from left wing, so in this case; NUT.

 

Cannot put into words how much I detest that erse.

Perhaps Murphy's debating partner in the photo is one of the more centre-right leaning SNP supporters.

 

Keep going on the Murphy-hate, though, Konnie. It's nice to ind common ground with you at last.

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Konrad von Carstein
Just now, jonesy said:

Perhaps Murphy's debating partner in the photo is one of the more centre-right leaning SNP supporters.

 

Keep going on the Murphy-hate, though, Konnie. It's nice to ind common ground with you at last.

:wub:

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6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Like most people im not sure how it plays out exactly but you have to hope that some pragmatism takes over if it was to happen , but I don’t worry about it. I don’t think it’s like before union when England could really screw us over the world trade has changed and ireland enjoys fantastic trade with uk you’d certainly hope that we’d all act like grown ups and have similar. I lot will depend on our EU status though. 
I won’t pretend I know what might or might not happen or even suggest what buffers could be used. I’m also open to others opinions about it. 
I haven’t whined about brexit and believe they have to deliver it after the uk as a whole voted for it end of the day - regardless of vote percentages here and there and that includes Scotland. One thing that boils my piss is the new talk of partioning Scotland after an indy vote. Why wasn’t there similar after the brexit vote? It’s constant goal post moving from the No side even to the point I see them saying what even is Scotland and it’s people now…Before the last one they were as Scottish as anyone but now we don’t really exist or something :lol: 
I have my doubts that this current SNP lot actually want or believe in it though. It’s absolutely night and day from Salmond’s SNP who seem more concerned with all this weird trans nonsense. 
Sturgeon mentions Independence around election time then does absolutely nothing to build anything to make people believe in it. If not already there she’s very close to end of shelf life imo. 
I didn’t answer this yesterday as I need to be in the mood to discuss it and I’ll be honest at this moment I CBFA. 
Just didn’t want to sling you a deefy👍🏼


 

Appreciated, JD&C.

 

The older I get, and the more I allow my kids' future to dominate my ideas rather than my own, the more I fear Scexit would do little more than lower the standard of living for them or force them to move abroad.

 

And I suspect you're right re Sturgeon. Happy governing with the constant get out clause of 'big bad Westminster' to blame when things go mammaries skywards. Salmond had one clear aim on his political agenda, and came very close to achieving it. Everything that came after was a power struggle/smear campaign the Soviets would have been proud of.

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Konrad von Carstein
3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Unsubstantiated.

Think the whole Scottish Labour movement would disagree.

 

I think he's a good guy

 

Good for you Enzo, not like you to take an opposite view, just for effect though.

 

He's a welt but. :cowboy:

 

 

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21 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Sturgeon mentions Independence around election time then does absolutely nothing to build anything to make people believe in it. If not already there she’s very close to end of shelf life imo. 


Rightly focusing on Covid which she promised to do. Imagine the pantwetting if she started discussing Indy again just now.

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Konrad von Carstein
Just now, Alex Kintner said:


Rightly focusing on Covid which she promised to do. Imagine the pantwetting if she started discussing Indy again just now.

 

Exactamundo....well said...

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jack D and coke
7 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:


Rightly focusing on Covid which she promised to do. Imagine the pantwetting if she started discussing Indy again just now.

Pantwetting whatever she does from some quarters. 
She’s had the benefit of a messy brexit and BJ and not really exploited either imo. Johnson might be long gone when this is over and who knows when that might be too, this could go on for years. Then the U.K. might have someone decent…a Labour govt even and people sick of her? 
You can’t hang around for this long in politics I don’t think but guess we’ll see. 

Edited by jack D and coke
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2 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:


Rightly focusing on Covid which she promised to do. Imagine the pantwetting if she started discussing Indy again just now.

Eh?

Her whole press conferencing has been not to favour a coherent message on covid but an all to obvious politicising of it.

It's a bug bear of most who are were of independence persuasion.

 

Sturgeons snp are establishment politics now and covid aside they are a party whose majority see them forget why they are in power.

There is little long term cohesive policy from the snp on this.

And often just reactionary to London.

 

 

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SuperstarSteve
48 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:


Rightly focusing on Covid which she promised to do. Imagine the pantwetting if she started discussing Indy again just now.

Agreed. As you say rightly focused on covid. Any in depth Indy chat would give the opposition a chance to land a few blows also 

public backlash. Sensible Priorities. 

Edited by SuperstarSteve
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8 hours ago, Ked said:

Sturgeons snp are establishment politics now and covid aside they are a party whose majority see them forget why they are in power.


SNP delivering on their manifesto promises and making a positive difference to the lives of people. Meanwhile in Westminster there’s a government who don’t care about the voters who put them in power, especially if they live in the north of England.

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Seymour M Hersh
10 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:


SNP delivering on their manifesto promises and making a positive difference to the lives of people. Meanwhile in Westminster there’s a government who don’t care about the voters who put them in power, especially if they live in the north of England.

 

:notsure:

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9 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Pantwetting whatever she does from some quarters. 
She’s had the benefit of a messy brexit and BJ and not really exploited either imo. Johnson might be long gone when this is over and who knows when that might be too, this could go on for years. Then the U.K. might have someone decent…a Labour govt even and people sick of her? 
You can’t hang around for this long in politics I don’t think but guess we’ll see. 


I genuinely think a lot of the seethe she creates is from people who can’t accept a woman with so much power over them. 
 

In terms of longevity, who knows. She is a fantastic politician and debater tho and her honest and compassionate leadership over the past 18 months will have endeared her to many more than those who seethe.

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manaliveits105
44 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:


SNP delivering on their manifesto promises and making a positive difference to the lives of people. Meanwhile in Westminster there’s a government who don’t care about the voters who put them in power, especially if they live in the north of England.

The Scottish Government are the worst performing administration anywhere in living memory - a dictatorship failing on every crucial aspect for the Scottish people but lauded by Braveheart imbeciles 

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13 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

The Scottish Government are the worst performing administration anywhere in living memory - a dictatorship failing on every crucial aspect for the Scottish people but lauded by Braveheart imbeciles 

EmbarrassedCooperativeGallowaycow-max-1m

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The Real Maroonblood
23 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

The Scottish Government are the worst performing administration anywhere in living memory - a dictatorship failing on every crucial aspect for the Scottish people but lauded by Braveheart imbeciles 

:rofl:

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51 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

The Scottish Government are the worst performing administration anywhere in living memory - a dictatorship failing on every crucial aspect for the Scottish people but lauded by Braveheart imbeciles 

 

SSa8uhe.gif

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55 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

The Scottish Government are the worst performing administration anywhere in living memory - a dictatorship failing on every crucial aspect for the Scottish people but lauded by Braveheart imbeciles 


The voters disagree👍🏻

81127679.jpg

 

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Jeffros Furios

Drug deaths,  poverty, foodbanks , Salmond inquiry etc ..is not delivering a better life for Scots .

The idiots who voted Labour for decades now vote SNP and will she ever deliver a 2nd referendum ?

At least Alba have a plan to gain Independence whilst Sturgeon seems more interested  in power .

She gets an easy ride due to the worst bunch of Tories ever and a hopeless Labour .

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:


Absolutely. Manifesto promises actually being delivered. What a crazy notion! 🤪

 

So I believe these are the top priorities, how are they coming along?

Top priorities

  • Hold a second referendum on Scottish independence
  • Build 100,000 new homes by 2032, with at least 70% of these being for social rent
  • Launch a National Care Service
  • Oppose nuclear weapons
  • Bring ScotRail into public ownership
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Jeffros Furios

100s of free meals delivered in Sighthill and Broomhouse which is increasing every year yet the Scot Gov and SNP leading Edin Council are delivering ... absolutely disgusting .

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The Real Maroonblood
7 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

100s of free meals delivered in Sighthill and Broomhouse which is increasing every year yet the Scot Gov and SNP leading Edin Council are delivering ... absolutely disgusting .

Edinburgh Clowncil are delivering bicycle lanes.

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2 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:


I genuinely think a lot of the seethe she creates is from people who can’t accept a woman with so much power over them. 
 

In terms of longevity, who knows. She is a fantastic politician and debater tho and her honest and compassionate leadership over the past 18 months will have endeared her to many more than those who seethe.

See when folk trot that line out, AK, it makes them look a wee bit ignorant. :( 

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9 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

So I believe these are the top priorities, how are they coming along?

Top priorities

  • Hold a second referendum on Scottish independence
  • Build 100,000 new homes by 2032, with at least 70% of these being for social rent
  • Launch a National Care Service
  • Oppose nuclear weapons
  • Bring ScotRail into public ownership


Six months in I’d probably say progress on longer term manifesto promises would be fairly minimal, especially when attention is rightly focused on the pandemic right now. Saying that the multi-agency steering group has been set up for National Care Service and a consultation launched.

 

Interesting you chose to not mention the shorter term manifesto commitments they’ve already delivered on in six months:

health (dental charges for young people removed, staff pay rise above inflation, fast track cancer centres opened) the economy (digital business fund, green workforce academy, Young Person guarantee)


That’s only two areas and doesn't even touch upon other manifesto promises delivered already on education, family life and the community.

 

Having a very young family I’m delighted ScotGov has promised and delivered 1140 hours of free high-quality childcare and was also very grateful to receive the baby boxes. I’m happy ScotGov have such a huge focus on inclusion and equality in education all the way from 3 to 18 and glad my children will be schooled here and not south of the border. 

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19 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

100s of free meals delivered in Sighthill and Broomhouse which is increasing every year yet the Scot Gov and SNP leading Edin Council are delivering ... absolutely disgusting .


I suppose the WM government and their forced austerity and cuts have absolutely nothing to do with that 🙄

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12 hours ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Murphy was and continues to be an utter welt...

Oh he was and is vile. I recall the day I saw him and Eddie Izzard walking along Princes Street during the Indy campaign. They looked like a comedy double act. Site for sore eyes. 

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

The Scottish Government are the worst performing administration anywhere in living memory - a dictatorship failing on every crucial aspect for the Scottish people but lauded by Braveheart imbeciles 

Its astonishing the amount of failures they have in every area of Governance. 

31 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Drug deaths,  poverty, foodbanks , Salmond inquiry etc ..is not delivering a better life for Scots .

The idiots who voted Labour for decades now vote SNP and will she ever deliver a 2nd referendum ?

At least Alba have a plan to gain Independence whilst Sturgeon seems more interested  in power .

She gets an easy ride due to the worst bunch of Tories ever and a hopeless Labour .

 

 

She will keep Covid going as long as she needs to to avoid the Indy 2 question and date. There is no way that the next vote will be a Yes.  No way .  The country is worse is every conceivable way from 2014 so people will rightly just stick with the status quo and put up with the British Govt and their financial bribes . 

6 minutes ago, jonesy said:

See when folk trot that line out, AK, it makes them look a wee bit ignorant. :( 

I know,. Its a boring old chesnut since  some  women have been dominating politics for a long time now. Thatcher was the trailblazer so its not something unique.  

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jack D and coke
12 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Its astonishing the amount of failures they have in every area of Governance. 

 

Whilst I agree they’re not on top of everything if it’s an astonishing anount of failures I assume you’ll have a very extensive list you could share? Then we can compare it to say the British govts record? 

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13 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Whilst I agree they’re not on top of everything if it’s an astonishing anount of failures I assume you’ll have a very extensive list you could share? Then we can compare it to say the British govts record? 

Oh im too busy at work just now to list them :) 

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jack D and coke
5 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Oh im too busy at work just now to list them :) 

:lol: Well later then pal. I’m looking forward to this astonishing list👍🏼

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1 hour ago, jonesy said:

See when folk trot that line out, AK, it makes them look a wee bit ignorant. :( 


I disagree. I see it in my area of work all the time. Some guys just can’t handle a woman being in charge. I suspect some of the abuse towards Ann Budge was also exacerbated by the fact she is a woman. It’s a sad reality but one that’s hopefully getting better.

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3 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:


I disagree. I see it in my area of work all the time. Some guys just can’t handle a woman being in charge. I suspect some of the abuse towards Ann Budge was also exacerbated by the fact she is a woman. It’s a sad reality but one that’s hopefully getting better.

Dunno, Al. Seems an easy brush to paint with unless you know the people and their attitudes in general. I don't doubt there is some element of misogyny in some of the comments, but look at the abuse folk dole out to Boris Johnson, Jeremy Corbyn, Donald Trump and Joe Biden or Robbie Neilson, Craig Levein, Wallace Mercer (lots of revisionism on forums like this about how folk felt about him, especially towards the end) and Chris Robinson by way of comparison.

 

Being a woman shouldn't make people immune from criticism, and criticising a woman shouldn't make people misogynists by default (appreciate that's not as strong a claim that you were making, but it ventures dangerously towards that territory, IMO). :) 

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6 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Dunno, Al. Seems an easy brush to paint with unless you know the people and their attitudes in general. I don't doubt there is some element of misogyny in some of the comments, but look at the abuse folk dole out to Boris Johnson, Jeremy Corbyn, Donald Trump and Joe Biden or Robbie Neilson, Craig Levein, Wallace Mercer (lots of revisionism on forums like this about how folk felt about him, especially towards the end) and Chris Robinson by way of comparison.

 

Being a woman shouldn't make people immune from criticism, and criticising a woman shouldn't make people misogynists by default (appreciate that's not as strong a claim that you were making, but it ventures dangerously towards that territory, IMO). :) 


We’re pretty much in agreement. NS would get abuse and criticism regardless, I just feel it is amplified a bit because she’s a woman. If we could traverse the political multiverse where she’s born Nicholas Sturgeon the ire and seethe would be less imo.

 

By no means should criticism of a woman be misogyny by default. That’s only where the criticism is because they’re a woman. 

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1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:


We’re pretty much in agreement. NS would get abuse and criticism regardless, I just feel it is amplified a bit because she’s a woman. If we could traverse the political multiverse where she’s born Nicholas Sturgeon the ire and seethe would be less imo.

 

By no means should criticism of a woman be misogyny by default. That’s only where the criticism is because they’re a woman. 

Cool.

 

It possibly is amplified by some knuckle draggers, but then we also live in an age where it's perfectly acceptable - in super-woke academia - to decry how male, pale and stale boards, committees and panels are. There's plenty of officially sanctioned misandry doing the rounds these days :( 

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Seymour M Hersh
3 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:


Absolutely. Manifesto promises actually being delivered. What a crazy notion! 🤪

 

I'd be interested to see you list the pledges "actually" being delivered. 

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Jeffros Furios
2 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:


I suppose the WM government and their forced austerity and cuts have absolutely nothing to do with that 🙄

Which makes the SNP led  council spending millions on cycle lanes even more ridiculous, 

Cycle lanes take priority over people starving  , the money is there spend it where its needed most .

It's a disgrace and you know it .

 

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1 hour ago, jonesy said:

Cool.

 

It possibly is amplified by some knuckle draggers, but then we also live in an age where it's perfectly acceptable - in super-woke academia - to decry how male, pale and stale boards, committees and panels are. There's plenty of officially sanctioned misandry doing the rounds these days :( 


Yep, also agree. I’ve been told a couple of times in my job by women that “I couldn’t possibly understand because I’m a man” 🤷🏻‍♂️

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12 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:


Yep, also agree. I’ve been told a couple of times in my job by women that “I couldn’t possibly understand because I’m a man” 🤷🏻‍♂️

Should've asked them to man up.

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3 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:


Six months in I’d probably say progress on longer term manifesto promises would be fairly minimal, especially when attention is rightly focused on the pandemic right now. Saying that the multi-agency steering group has been set up for National Care Service and a consultation launched.

 

Interesting you chose to not mention the shorter term manifesto commitments they’ve already delivered on in six months:

health (dental charges for young people removed, staff pay rise above inflation, fast track cancer centres opened) the economy (digital business fund, green workforce academy, Young Person guarantee)


That’s only two areas and doesn't even touch upon other manifesto promises delivered already on education, family life and the community.

 

Having a very young family I’m delighted ScotGov has promised and delivered 1140 hours of free high-quality childcare and was also very grateful to receive the baby boxes. I’m happy ScotGov have such a huge focus on inclusion and equality in education all the way from 3 to 18 and glad my children will be schooled here and not south of the border. 

 

Alex, I'm honestly oblivious to exactly what the SNP manifesto says, I just grabbed something from the BBC website that summarised the priorities. In terms of these though from what I gather ScotRail will be handed back next easter time so tick, she has already come out in favour of exiting Faslane/trident so tick (not sure she can deliver an exit but then again she didn't promise an exit, only that she'd oppose) and she has punted on the referendum till post COVID so let's see. From your comments she has kicked off the National Care stuff so all in all your earlier comment about delivering on manifesto pledges is fair at least for the priorities.

Edited by Japan Jambo
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3 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:


I suppose the WM government and their forced austerity and cuts have absolutely nothing to do with that 🙄

 

Can always put up taxes locally. If you want to be independent you ought to stop hiding behind them and blaming them for everything. You either believe the electorate are prepared to pay for it or you don't. 

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The Mighty Thor
27 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Can always put up taxes locally. If you want to be independent you ought to stop hiding behind them and blaming them for everything. You either believe the electorate are prepared to pay for it or you don't. 

True to a point as there are limited powers of tax raising as some matters are still reserved. 

 

The only time that one would ever be able to judge properly and fairly is when the Scottish Government (of whichever scarf colour) has control of all the fiscal levers.

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