Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Taffin]

14 minutes ago, theshed said:

Personally I think it’s because we need more people to go back to work in offices ect as they use trains and buses then they buy coffee, sandwiches ect so spend money 

 

Wearing a mask makes people feel safer so are more likely to leave their house 

 

A mask gives you a feeling of security even though they are probably a waste of time 

 

I think what makes people sceptical about them is how much the scientists, the governments, the media and other authorities have kept changing their minds about it. You just need to look on here, some of the most ardent of the 'wear a mask' group were ridiculing them back at the start. "Silly little masks, that do nothing" etc. The effectiveness of masks hasn't changed, that's remained constant throughout, people are just easily led. Imo, it was always obvious they had some effect but not a big one.

 

I'm with you, that they're now being pushed as a tool to try and make people feel safe to go back out and start spending again.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Taffin

[Ray Gin]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

I think what makes people sceptical about them is how much the scientists, the governments, the media and other authorities have kept changing their minds about it. You just need to look on here, some of the most ardent of the 'wear a mask' group were ridiculing them back at the start. "Silly little masks, that do nothing" etc. The science and effectiveness of masks hasn't changed. Imo, it was always obvious they had some effect but not a big one.

 

 

It's almost as if this is a brand new virus that we are learning more about as time goes on. 

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

It's almost as if this is a brand new virus that we are learning more about as time goes on. 

 

Not disputing that, but masks, coronavirus and the spreading of droplets isn't brand new. It was pretty obvious, from the off, what effect masks would have and is the same reason people throughout the world wear them however it's only now that people are being told to wear them that people are suddenly preaching their virtues.

 

That's got to be down to two things imo. The desire to get people back out and spending and the previous fear that advising usage would prevent a shortage for health workers. I don't believe we've learnt anything we didn't already know about the virus that would suddenly make it apparent masks are useful when they were considered useless before. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Taffin

[Enzo Chiefo]

36 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Due to the fact there have hardly anyone dying of Covid In Scotland recently I tend to believe the official numbers to be as close to factual as possible. If there was large numbers of folk walking around asymptomatic then simply put they aren’t infecting anyone otherwise folk would be falling Ill or dying. Unless of course you believe Covid is weakening and not having the same severe affects as before

 

Anyways, people aren’t dying and aren’t reporting that they are falling ill. That’s the important FACTS here. 

These are indeed the important facts Alim

Edited July 14, 2020 by Enzo Chiefo

[kila]

I’ve had a heavy mouth breather sat behind me on a bus once and I thought the window was open at first.

When someone exhales after vaping or whatever, you can see how far they can project air from their lungs. Do the same with a face mask on and the smoke comes out slower doesn’t go anywhere near as far.

The issue over masks originally was the quantity was not there as even medical professionals were struggling to source them and there was the big PPE production drive. Then there was debates over how much the virus can be transmitted in air from someone’s breath.

 

[Nobreath]

An interesting read going back to the first few pages.

 

So many highly opinionated experts. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Nobreath

[OBE]

9 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I think what makes people sceptical about them is how much the scientists, the governments, the media and other authorities have kept changing their minds about it. You just need to look on here, some of the most ardent of the 'wear a mask' group were ridiculing them back at the start. "Silly little masks, that do nothing" etc. The effectiveness of masks hasn't changed, that's remained constant throughout, people are just easily led. Imo, it was always obvious they had some effect but not a big one.

 

I'm with you, that they're now being pushed as a tool to try and make people feel safe to go back out and start spending again.

 

Some effect, better than no effect.

 

Combined with washing, distancing and covering the holes in the face will have a greater effect. 

[Ray Gin]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Not disputing that, but masks, coronavirus and the spreading of droplets isn't brand new. It was pretty obvious, from the off, what effect masks would have and is the same reason people throughout the world wear them however it's only now that people are being told to wear them that people are suddenly preaching their virtues.

 

That's got to be down to two things imo. The desire to get people back out and spending and the previous fear that advising usage would prevent a shortage for health workers. I don't believe we've learnt anything we didn't already know about the virus that would suddenly make it apparent masks are useful when they were considered useless before. 

 

It's not only now, we've been told to wear them for almost 3 months now.

 

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, Nobreath said:

An interesting read going back to the first few pages.

 

So many highly opinionated experts. 

 

Good read, isn't it?

[Enzo Chiefo]

57 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

That's not a fact. We don't know how many have it, as many only get mild or no symptoms, whereas others don't get symptoms for up to 2 weeks after catching it. These people will not have been tested and won't show on any records. 

0.04% is based on Scot Gov best estimates. Do you not trust the experts? Or only when they deliver pessimistic news?  

[Ray Gin]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

0.04% is based on Scot Gov best estimates. Do you not trust the experts? Or only when they deliver pessimistic news?  

 

An estimate is not a fact.

 

 

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

It's not only now, we've been told to wear them for almost 3 months now.

 

 

No, we haven't. England hasn't even been told to yet, but will be shortly. 

[Ray Gin]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

No, we haven't. England hasn't even been told to yet, but will be shortly. 

 

Yes we were. 28 April was when Sturgeon first said that people should wear face coverings in shops and on public transport.

 

They've only just been made mandatory, because enough people weren't listening. The advice was there months ago though.

 

[Ray Gin]

5 minutes ago, jonesy said:

 

Re your final paragraph. 
 

If authorities had come out at the beginning and said “We’d love you all to wear masks, it’s obvious that they help stop transmission BUT we need medical staff to get them first” rather than “there’s no evidence...” then they’d be bringing in these new laws from a position of trust. Instead, they either lied or ran with information that was easily disproved just a month or so later, meaning  many people now don’t trust them. 

 

Given that the public ran out and started panic buying bog roll and pasta, do you really think they wouldn't have done the same with masks if they were told they were beneficial from the get go?

 

I don't necessarily believe that we knew how beneficial they were though back then. It wasn't obvious how much it was being transmitted through airborne particles rather than on surfaces.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Ray Gin

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, OBE said:

 

Some effect, better than no effect.

 

Combined with washing, distancing and covering the holes in the face will have a greater effect. 

 

Some effect but also potentially negative effects too. Again, the concerns raised about masks are still valid too (touching it and rearranging increasing infection, environmental concerns, civil liberty concerns) in the same way the virtues were also always true. For me, masks are in the balance...I'm not certain the benefits outweigh the negatives. I'm still firmly of the opinion that the best way to prevent spread is distancing, in fact I'd go as far as to say it's foolproof. Don't want to catch a virus? Don't go near other people.

[kila]

5 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Re your final paragraph. 
 

If authorities had come out at the beginning and said “We’d love you all to wear masks, it’s obvious that they help stop transmission BUT we need medical staff to get them first” rather than “there’s no evidence...” then they’d be bringing in these new laws from a position of trust. Instead, they either lied or ran with information that was easily disproved just a month or so later, meaning  many people now don’t trust them. 

 

We went into lockdown though, and supermarket numbers were restricted. So lack of masks for the general public was less of an issue.

 

As Ray pointed out, the SG have recommended mask use for a while now. It's become mandatory so the country can start opening up again.

 

I mean are some folk really suggesting that we don't bother with any of these precautions and just get on with it and see what happens?

 

[Taffin]

4 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Yes we were. 28 April was when Sturgeon first said that people should wear face coverings in shops and on public transport.

 

They've only just been made mandatory, because enough people weren't listening. The advice was there months ago though.

 

 

Mandatory = told to

Should = advised to

 

We isn't Scotland, there's a big world outside of it.

[Governor Tarkin]

3 minutes ago, kila said:

 

I mean are some folk really suggesting that we don't bother with any of these precautions and just get on with it and see what happens?

 

 

Haven't seen much of that chat tbh.

[Taffin]

12 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Mandatory = told to

Should = advised to

 

We isn't Scotland, there's a big world outside of it.

 

Ran out of time to edit:

 

That's also less than 2 months, about 6/7 weeks. A fair bit different to "almost 3 months". That's the part I don't really get. I'm being pretty safe about all of this when I'm out and about and not doing certain things because I view it as too much of a risk but the sensationalism to make it seem worse or skew the narrative is abundant. I actually looked up cancer deaths last night after our discussion, Covid-19s death rate (numbers by time) is nowhere near that of cancer, not even remotely close. Over 25,000 people a day die from cancer, Covid-19 never at any stage got remotely close to that. In the same way people shouldn't play down the risk, it isn't helpful to ham it up either imo.

 

 

[davemclaren]

45 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

How's that, Dave?

Because it reminds me of school and criminal gangs and tends to be used by people who think that their rule/law breaches are ok and that others should accept their moral paradigm  as well. It’s an interesting moral dilemma as to when something is deemed worth reporting by some and not by others.
 

it’s most interesting at the margin, where people have different views on acceptability, like when a neighbour reported me for having a skip in my garden for a few days without permission or when I told a mate once I would phone the cops if he drove home after having  3 or 4 pints. 
 

Anyway I digress. 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

https://news.sky.com/story/second-coronavirus-spike-this-winter-could-be-more-serious-than-the-first-top-scientists-warn-12027912

[Jambo 4 Ever]

16 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Ran out of time to edit:

 

That's also less than 2 months, about 6/7 weeks. A fair bit different to "almost 3 months". That's the part I don't really get. I'm being pretty safe about all of this when I'm out and about and not doing certain things because I view it as too much of a risk but the sensationalism to make it seem worse or skew the narrative is abundant. I actually looked up cancer deaths last night after our discussion, Covid-19s death rate (numbers by time) is nowhere near that of cancer, not even remotely close. Over 25,000 people a day die from cancer, Covid-19 never at any stage got remotely close to that. In the same way people shouldn't play down the risk, it isn't helpful to ham it up either imo.

 

 

Difference is you can’t catch cancer from someone else 

[The Real Maroonblood]

13 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Ran out of time to edit:

 

That's also less than 2 months, about 6/7 weeks. A fair bit different to "almost 3 months". That's the part I don't really get. I'm being pretty safe about all of this when I'm out and about and not doing certain things because I view it as too much of a risk but the sensationalism to make it seem worse or skew the narrative is abundant. I actually looked up cancer deaths last night after our discussion, Covid-19s death rate (numbers by time) is nowhere near that of cancer, not even remotely close. Over 25,000 people a day die from cancer, Covid-19 never at any stage got remotely close to that. In the same way people shouldn't play down the risk, it isn't helpful to ham it up either imo.

 

 

25,000 Cancer deaths a day?

Whereabout?

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

Because it reminds me of school and criminal gangs and tends to be used by people who think that their rule/law breaches are ok and that others should accept their moral paradigm  as well. It’s an interesting moral dilemma as to when something is deemed worth reporting by some and not by others.
 

it’s most interesting at the margin, where people have different views on acceptability, like when a neighbour reported me for having a skip in my garden for a few days without permission or when I told a mate once I would phone the cops if he drove home after having  3 or 4 pints. 
 

Anyway I digress. 

 

Fair enough. I probably agree with most of your first paragraph. Never had any sort of respect for that sort.

 

On your second, I didn't know you needed permission to have a skip on your own property. I'd have been round at the offending neighbours door, tbh. 

I've had skips in mine on and off for the last month, and ton bags / pallets of materials dropped off kerbside.

 

Absolutely no time for curtain twitching, snitchey neighbours when folk are just trying to get on with their lives at a temporary and incredibly minor inconvenience to others. I've worked hard to build up a good relationship with the folk round about. It has involved a fair measure of compromise or give and take but I can't undrstand those that refuse to get on board with that.

 

I'd also be cool about threatening to stick a mate in who was ready to drive home drunk.

 

[kila]

17 minutes ago, Taffin said:

Ran out of time to edit:

 

That's also less than 2 months, about 6/7 weeks. A fair bit different to "almost 3 months". That's the part I don't really get. I'm being pretty safe about all of this when I'm out and about and not doing certain things because I view it as too much of a risk but the sensationalism to make it seem worse or skew the narrative is abundant. I actually looked up cancer deaths last night after our discussion, Covid-19s death rate (numbers by time) is nowhere near that of cancer, not even remotely close. Over 25,000 people a day die from cancer, Covid-19 never at any stage got remotely close to that. In the same way people shouldn't play down the risk, it isn't helpful to ham it up either imo.

 

Cancer patients don't clog up ICU in mass quantities, nor cause parts of hospitals to shutdown due to contagion causing services to become limited/cancelled etc.

 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

3 minutes ago, Natural Orders said:

https://news.sky.com/story/second-coronavirus-spike-this-winter-could-be-more-serious-than-the-first-top-scientists-warn-12027912

 

Oh no. Whatever will we do?

[Jambo 4 Ever]

Just now, kila said:

 

Cancer patients don't clog up ICU in mass quantities, nor cause parts of hospitals to shutdown due to contagion causing services to become limited/cancelled etc.

 

 

this 

[Governor Tarkin]

7 minutes ago, Natural Orders said:

Difference is you can’t catch cancer from someone else 

 

I reckon I could catch some kind of eye cancer from reading your posts tbh.

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, Natural Orders said:

Difference is you can’t catch cancer from someone else 

 

How enlightening...that's not really the point here though. I'm not too interested in comparisons between causes of death, I was just surprised when Ray stated that it had nowhere near the death rate of Covid-19 last night and curiosity got the better of me so I looked it up later on.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

7 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Oh no. Whatever will we do?

What a mature response 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

2 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I reckon I could catch some kind of eye cancer from reading your posts tbh.

Don’t be such a twit 

[been here before]

4 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Oh no. Whatever will we do?

 

Im moving to Hamilton this winter where I believe the power generated from the big big brainy heids means its usually a balmy 20 odd degrees even during the most bitter of Scottish winters.

[Taffin]

8 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

25,000 Cancer deaths a day?

Whereabout?

 

I don't know about the wider universe, but in this instance I'm referring to earth.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

How enlightening...that's not really the point here though. I'm not too interested in comparisons between causes of death, I was just surprised when Ray stated that it had nowhere near the death rate of Covid-19 last night and curiosity got the better of me so I looked it up later on.

Where was your source about 25,000 cancer deaths a day?

[Walter Bishop]

43 minutes ago, kila said:

 

We went into lockdown though, and supermarket numbers were restricted. So lack of masks for the general public was less of an issue.

 

As Ray pointed out, the SG have recommended mask use for a while now. It's become mandatory so the country can start opening up again.

 

I mean are some folk really suggesting that we don't bother with any of these precautions and just get on with it and see what happens?

 

Like Sweden. What a disaster that turned out to be. 

[Taffin]

9 minutes ago, kila said:

 

Cancer patients don't clog up ICU in mass quantities, nor cause parts of hospitals to shutdown due to contagion causing services to become limited/cancelled etc.

 

 

 

Erm, I know. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

15 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

An estimate is not a fact.

 

 

As close as you'll get. I assume that you will only post links to fact based articles in future? No more estimates, predictions, possibilities,  probabilities, scaremongering?

[Walter Bishop]

Just now, The Real Maroonblood said:

Where was your source about 25,000 cancer deaths a day?

https://www.worldometers.info/

 

 

[Taffin]

4 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Where was your source about 25,000 cancer deaths a day?

 

Cancer research website of deaths per annum/365

 

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health-professional/cancer-statistics/worldwide-cancer

 

Edit: admittedly that's 2018, but worldometer suggests it won't be a millions miles out this year.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Taffin

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said:

https://www.worldometers.info/

 

 

👍

[Ray Gin]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

As close as you'll get. I assume that you will only post links to fact based articles in future? No more estimates, predictions, possibilities,  probabilities, scaremongering?

 

I certainly won't post them and claim that they are facts.

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

Cancer research website of deaths per annum/365

 

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health-professional/cancer-statistics/worldwide-cancer

👍

[AlimOzturk]

1 minute ago, Natural Orders said:

What a mature response 

You going calling folk twits is right enough. There is something very weird and strange about you. 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, Natural Orders said:

Don’t be such a twit 

 

Burried my mum's sister two weeks ago. Cancer.

Lost a good mate and PHM last thursday. Cancer.

The Mrs folks next door neighbour has had her treatment postponed due to covid. She and her family are shitting themselves.

My brother had his post chemo check ups delayed due to covid and he we were all shitting ourselves.

 

I'm not playing down the seriousness of the situation we are in but since this began I've seen off three friends and relatives on account of various cancers and have yet to meet one single person who's knowingly had covid.

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

👍

 

I'll be honest, it shocked me. I knew it would be high, but I didn't expect anything like that. If one good things come of all of this from a personal perspective, I'd like to think it's made me much more aware of the hardship so many people around the world face everyday, every year. What I can do to help? I'm yet to work that part out

[Walter Bishop]

3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I'll be honest, it shocked me. I knew it would be high, but I didn't expect anything like that. If one good things come of all of this from a personal perspective, I'd like to think it's made me much more aware of the hardship so many people around the world face everyday, every year. What I can do to help? I'm yet to work that part out

 

 

 

Professor Karol Sikora

 

@ProfKarolSikora

·

27m

 

Roughly every four minutes someone dies from cancer in the UK. The virus is still a huge issue, but we really need to shift the focus. History will not judge us kindly when there are tens of thousands of excess cancer deaths during this period. Staggering more isn't being done.

[AlimOzturk]

10 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

As close as you'll get. I assume that you will only post links to fact based articles in future? No more estimates, predictions, possibilities,  probabilities, scaremongering?

He is just being difficult because he can’t argue against the numbers. Fair enough, I maybe shouldn’t have used the word fact. Maybe I should have used “as close to the numbers as humanly possible” or something of the like. Of course it is possible to known 100% but the numbers of people dying must mean they are incredibly close. 
 

However, the amount of folk walking around asymptomatic must be massively low because nobody is reporting being ill or are dying from it. Those are fact but Ray Gin will ignore it because the word positive isn’t in his vocabulary. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by AlimOzturk

[The Real Maroonblood]

19 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Oh no. Whatever will we do?

We’re doomed.

[Samuel Camazzola]

2 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

We’re doomed.

Not if you wear your manky well-fingered mask. 👍 

[Cade]

What more can be done?

We've had to get doctors and nurses out of retirement and put final year medical students on the front lines just to prevent a total collapse of the system.

There are no more staff to be had.

They're all fighting Covid-19.