Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Malinga the Swinga]

42 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Thank you for your positive contribution to the debate on coronavirus.

 

Can people not just try to put aside their political opinions on this?

Get what you are saying but it was a decision made by Scottish government that caused widespread deaths that they have failed to acknowledge or take responsibility for. In fact, they had a quick internal review and unsurprisingly cleared themselves by saying it made no difference. It made a big ****ing difference to those who caught Covid and died. 

Still supporters on here won't blame them though, it's brushed aside as hard decision and no more. 

Will try hard to move on though. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

That will be six to nine months to roll out effectively.

If they roll this out in 9 months, will be pleasant surprise. Reckon 18 months myself. 

[steve123]

10 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

In your opinion, what are the big differences from Tier 3 to 4 that will make a noticeable difference to the numbers?

Well all your hospitality etc is closed, but that is not really my moan it is more about the 5 tier system if the West is tier 3 then the East should be tier 2 following their plan they set out at the start.

 

I should add not being able to buy a beer in a pub etc does not really affect me to much as don't frequent them much now a days- I do feel for the businesses being effected though and the lack of transparency and changing message.

Edited November 10, 2020 by steve123

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Get what you are saying but it was a decision made by Scottish government that caused widespread deaths that they have failed to acknowledge or take responsibility for. In fact, they had a quick internal review and unsurprisingly cleared themselves by saying it made no difference. It made a big ****ing difference to those who caught Covid and died. 

Still supporters on here won't blame them though, it's brushed aside as hard decision and no more. 

Will try hard to move on though. 

 

I voted SNP in the last election (for the first time since I was a student, I think), and I personally believe that the government was at fault for moving covid-positive elderly patients back to care homes at the start of the pandemic. I also feel that they have not yet been held sufficiently to account for that decision. So don't worry, not all "SNP supporters" have assuaged them of any blame for that bad decision.

 

Hopefully, whoever made that decision will be held to account after all this is over and we get a full public enquiry into the government's handling of the pandemic. In the meantime, we need to concentrate on addressing the pandemic as it is at the moment.

[Malinga the Swinga]

8 minutes ago, theshed said:

16 day circuit breaker we were told 

5 weeks and counting 🙄

No one believed them and no one trusts them, well apart from the usual suspects. Others think they can be trusted to shut schools for 2 weeks if they shut them down, will be months before they reopen. 

[GinRummy]

4 minutes ago, steve123 said:

Well all your hospitality etc is closed, but that is not really my moan it is more about the 5 tier system if the West is Tier 3 then the East should be tier 2 following their plan they set out at the start.

 

I should add not being able to buy a beer in a pub etc does not really effect me to much as don't frequent them much now a days- I do feel for the businesses being effected though and the lack of transparency and changing message.

Their plan regardless of what anyone says, was to split a tiny country into small parts and grade regions according to infection rates then restrict on that basis. The reality is, that is impossible to do so they’ve just chucked the entire central belt on the same tier which was inevitable. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by GinRummy

[Malinga the Swinga]

23 minutes ago, FWJ said:

Although not a SNP voter (never have) I’ve been pretty supportive of the way they’ve handled this and I’ve defended the 5 tier system to English friend’s jokes that she just wanted to be different to England.  I thought it would allow a more nuanced approach.

But this is b****cks.  If they’re so keen on erring on the side of caution why aren’t Glasgow and the Lanarkshires in tier 4? 

Perth having to suffer because of its proximity to Dundee.  
Pitlochry in the same tier as Pollockshields.

 

 

You can have the 500 word condescending essay that Victorian likes to lecture us with or the short

'Because Nicola says'  version. 

They both mean the same. 

[coconut doug]

9 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Get what you are saying but it was a decision made by Scottish government that caused widespread deaths that they have failed to acknowledge or take responsibility for. In fact, they had a quick internal review and unsurprisingly cleared themselves by saying it made no difference. It made a big ****ing difference to those who caught Covid and died. 

Still supporters on here won't blame them though, it's brushed aside as hard decision and no more. 

Will try hard to move on though. 

 

How do you know? What's your level of knowledge and expertise.

[steve123]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Their plan regardless of what anyone says, was to split a tiny country into small parts and grade regions according to infections rates and restrict on that basis. The reality is that is impossible to do so they’ve just chucked the entire central belt on the same tier which was inevitable. 

Yea I agree, but that kinda makes a mockery of their plan in the first place.

[OmiyaHearts]

9 minutes ago, steve123 said:

Well all your hospitality etc is closed, but that is not really my moan it is more about the 5 tier system if the West is Tier 3 then the East should be tier 2 following their plan they set out at the start.

 

I should add not being able to buy a beer in a pub etc does not really affect me to much as don't frequent them much now a days- I do feel for the businesses being effected though and the lack of transparency and changing message.

Hospitality is already basically closed, a few decided to open up again on Monday in Glasgow, so that's not related to the current numbers. The only places open before yesterday were takeaway food shops and cafe's - most of the cafes only doing takeaway as well. Glasgow is a ghost town, the only people you see are construction workers and the odd shopper.

 

The point I'm making is, people are quick to want Glasgow to go to Tier 4 - it basically already is. People here genuinely wouldn't know the difference if it go to Tier 4, except some hospitality workers would lose their job.

 

That's probably why they haven't increased it yet. Maybe now a few places have re-opened they may increase the tier if cases increase.

 

Why don't we all just admit that it's the schools causing it. It's so obvious.

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, steve123 said:

Yea I agree, but that kinda makes a mockery of their plan in the first place.

Yep. So in these times, just be honest, say you’ve made a mistake and that central Scotland has to make up just one area for the tier system. 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

21 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Aye all have same symptoms. Sore head, cough and pressure on the chest.

 

could be lots of things but fair enough 👍

[The Real Maroonblood]

9 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

No one believed them and no one trusts them, well apart from the usual suspects. Others think they can be trusted to shut schools for 2 weeks if they shut them down, will be months before they reopen. 

It’s alright they’ll probably open everything for f*****g Xmas because COVID-19 will call a truce.

 

[coconut doug]

4 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

No one believed them and no one trusts them, well apart from the usual suspects. Others think they can be trusted to shut schools for 2 weeks if they shut them down, will be months before they reopen. 

 

Lots of people trust and believe them outside this self flagellation circle. The polls show it and even the Tories are supportive because they know their core vote in their heartlands and care homes support the Scotgov approach too. 

 

Wasn't it just a few posts back you were screaming, yes screaming at the ineptitude of the opposition? 

 

Keeping schools open is a priority keeping the pubs open is not. What's not to understand.

[OmiyaHearts]

Just now, Brian Dundas said:

But the schools are only causing it in certain areas not everywhere? Why are Inverclyde's numbers only now going up when the schools there have been back for the same length of time as everywhere else.

I should elaborate. Schools and house parties, that's the cause, in my opinion.

 

There's nothing else that can cause it, everything is shut. 

[steve123]

6 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Hospitality is already basically closed, a few decided to open up again on Monday in Glasgow, so that's not related to the current numbers. The only places open before yesterday were takeaway food shops and cafe's - most of the cafes only doing takeaway as well. Glasgow is a ghost town, the only people you see are construction workers and the odd shopper.

 

The point I'm making is, people are quick to want Glasgow to go to Tier 4 - it basically already is. People here genuinely wouldn't know the difference if it go to Tier 4, except some hospitality workers would lose their job.

 

That's probably why they haven't increased it yet. Maybe now a few places have re-opened they may increase the tier if cases increase.

 

Why don't we all just admit that it's the schools causing it. It's so obvious.

I don't particularly want Glasgow to go into level 4 , I want them to follow the tier system they set out and stop changing their minds every 2nd week.

 

With regards schools I have some sympathy for that view apparently there were 11 schools in Fife with cases this week being investigated, I have to say selfishly with a 5 year old at school I don't much fancy them closing them again.

Edited November 10, 2020 by steve123

[steve123]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Yep. So in these times, just be honest, say you’ve made a mistake and that central Scotland has to make up just one area for the tier system. 

Yea totally, I would appreciate that honesty more.

[Malinga the Swinga]

7 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

How do you know? What's your level of knowledge and expertise.

And on queue, one of believers turns up. No point in debating , you will never accept your party made a decision that caused deaths. 

You take loads of people from a Covid hot-spot, put them untested into an enclosed environment full of elderly and infirm, and suddenly, you have mass outbreaks of covid causing deaths. You put that down to coincidence then. 

[GinRummy]

Just now, coconut doug said:

 

Lots of people trust and believe them outside this self flagellation circle. The polls show it and even the Tories are supportive because they know their core vote in their heartlands and care homes support the Scotgov approach too. 

 

Wasn't it just a few posts back you were screaming, yes screaming at the ineptitude of the opposition? 

 

Keeping schools open is a priority keeping the pubs open is not. What's not to understand.

It must be the easiest job on the planet to do things a wee bit better than Boris and get praised for it.

[Malinga the Swinga]

4 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Lots of people trust and believe them outside this self flagellation circle. The polls show it and even the Tories are supportive because they know their core vote in their heartlands and care homes support the Scotgov approach too. 

 

Wasn't it just a few posts back you were screaming, yes screaming at the ineptitude of the opposition? 

 

Keeping schools open is a priority keeping the pubs open is not. What's not to understand.

What the **** are you talking about. I don't want schools closed and never have. 

Learn to read. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

Just now, GinRummy said:

It must be the easiest job on the planet to do things a wee bit better than Boris and get praised for it.

You don't even have to do things better, just twist whatever English do and voila, you impress the believers. 

It is the complete and only defence offered. 

[ri Alban]

Vaccine is coming and so is Santa.

[OmiyaHearts]

Just now, steve123 said:

I don't particularly want Glasgow to go into level 4 , I want them to follow there tier system they set out and stop changing their minds every 2nd week.

 

With regards schools I have some sympathy for that view apparently there were 11 schools in Fife with cases this week being investigated, I have to say selfishly with a 5 year old at school I don't much fancy them closing them again.

But why go to tier 4 just for the sake of it. Why not only do it if it will make a difference? It would be making people unemployed just for the sake of it.

 

I'm only speaking from my experience of working in Glasgow City centre through lockdown. I honestly can't see anything else that they can do to bring the numbers down, apart from kicking doors down and checking people aren't having a party - although even then, I guess it's too late.

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

You don't even have to do things better, just twist whatever English do and voila, you impress the believers. 

It is the complete and only defence offered. 

[Heartsmad1874]

5 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

And on queue, one of believers turns up. No point in debating , you will never accept your party made a decision that caused deaths. 

You take loads of people from a Covid hot-spot, put them untested into an enclosed environment full of elderly and infirm, and suddenly, you have mass outbreaks of covid causing deaths. You put that down to coincidence then. 

There was a real worrying lack of scrutiny in parliament today. Only really Willie Rennie said anything about Fife etc being lowered a tier.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

54 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

"The current rate of operational false-positive swab tests in the UK is unknown; preliminary estimates show it could be somewhere between 0·8% and 4·0%"

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30453-7/fulltext

 

So, very unlikely that they were all false positives. And do remember, lack of symptoms is not a sure sign of a false positive since many folk are asymptomatic anyway.

 

 

 

that is one estimate - I have seen others potentially much higher

 

also assuming they were tested together then their tests may lack independence so a fault in a particular batch of tests/the process could lead to the the same error occurring 

 

so ur “very unlikely” would have a red flag against it on page 1 of foundation statistics under the heading ”independence”

 

they may well not be false positives hence why I used the term “could” rather than something silly like ‘very likely”

 

 

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

Once and for all, just because I believe the Scottish government, its advisors, its performing pets like Leitch and Nicola Sturgeon have been disastrous during the pandemic, does not mean Boris J, Hancock, Hove and others have not been equally as culpable. 

You are allowed to think both governments are so out their depth it is scary. 

[ri Alban]

Feck you covid19, yer teas oot. 

[steve123]

2 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

But why go to tier 4 just for the sake of it. Why not only do it if it will make a difference? It would be making people unemployed just for the sake of it.

 

I'm only speaking from my experience of working in Glasgow City centre through lockdown. I honestly can't see anything else that they can do to bring the numbers down, apart from kicking doors down and checking people aren't having a party - although even then, I guess it's too late.

That is a fair point, every job that can be protected should be.

[Robbofan99]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

I appreciate that, but we should be concentrating on and critiquing the decisions that are made, not on who is making them, no?

Yes i suppose its classic case of " dont shoot the messenger" ? 

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

But why go to tier 4 just for the sake of it. Why not only do it if it will make a difference? It would be making people unemployed just for the sake of it.

 

I'm only speaking from my experience of working in Glasgow City centre through lockdown. I honestly can't see anything else that they can do to bring the numbers down, apart from kicking doors down and checking people aren't having a party - although even then, I guess it's too late.

Fair enough, why have tier 4 if you're afraid to use it then. Why allow Edinburgh businesses to suffer because you are frightened of separating East from West. After all, separation is SNP thing

 

[Heartsmad1874]

2 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Once and for all, just because I believe the Scottish government, its advisors, its performing pets like Leitch and Nicola Sturgeon have been disastrous during the pandemic, does not mean Boris J, Hancock, Hove and others have not been equally as culpable. 

You are allowed to think both governments are so out their depth it is scary. 

That guy from GMB this morning chasing Matt Hancock for an interview, asking for social distancing before proceeding to touch Hancock on the back was rather comical  

[Malinga the Swinga]

3 minutes ago, steve123 said:

That is a fair point, every job that can be protected should be.

Agree with that. Shame government did not think of it when it stuck Lothian in tier 3 instead of tier 2. Strange how government, not you, can think of these things when it effects Greater Glasgow now, but didn't care when it effected Lothian weeks ago. 

[redjambo]

Just now, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

that is one estimate - I have seen others potentially much higher

 

also assuming they were tested together then their tests may lack independence so a fault in a particular batch of tests/the process could lead to the the same error occurring 

 

so ur “very unlikely” would have a red flag against it on page 1 of foundation statistics under the heading ”independence”

 

they may well not be false positives hence why I used the term “could” rather than something silly like ‘very likely”

 

 

I should think that the Lancet would be treated as a more authoritative source. Even taking the highest figure quoted in the Lancet article, 4%, the probability of all four family members being false positives would indeed be "very unlikely".

 

You are simply grasping at straws in order to promote your conspiracy theories. Try touching base with reality, you'll find that it is less comfortable but, in the long run, a healthier option.

[steve123]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Agree with that. Shame government did not think of it when it stuck Lothian in tier 3 instead of tier 2. Strange how government, not you, can think of these things when it effects Greater Glasgow now, but didn't care when it effected Lothian weeks ago. 

100% agree, in my humble opinion they have alot to answer for.

[Malinga the Swinga]

4 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

That guy from GMB this morning chasing Matt Hancock for an interview, asking for social distancing before proceeding to touch Hancock on the back was rather comical  

Hancock is a total joke. That doesn't excuse performance of government up here though. 

[The Mighty Thor]

4 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Just popped into co-op at East Craigs, and it was full of pupils from Craigmount.  About 1 in 8 had a mask on in the shop and were showing no awareness of social distancing.

 

3 hours ago, JWL said:

 I was walking along Gorgie Road at lunchtime last Wednesday and there were hordes of pupils heading towards Greggs, Scotmid or wherever for lunch with barely a few masks between them and no social distancing whatsoever. Seen them all gathered outside Greggs and inside Scotmid with the same attitude.

 

Criminally unfair the treatment the hospitality sector has received during the last couple of months.

Same at Greggs in South Gyle Estate today. Probably 50-60 kids, no masks, no social distancing. 

 

 

[OmiyaHearts]

6 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Fair enough, why have tier 4 if you're afraid to use it then. Why allow Edinburgh businesses to suffer because you are frightened of separating East from West. After all, separation is SNP thing

 

They maybe assumed a lot places would stay open in tier 3, so they could close them if moved to tier 4?

 

The business hours and covid restrictions have made it pointless for most places to bother opening.

[theshed]

21 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

I should elaborate. Schools and house parties, that's the cause, in my opinion.

 

There's nothing else that can cause it, everything is shut. 

 

If you take the numbers from schools, care homes and house Parties and compare them with numbers from pubs and restaurants it shows exactly where the problems are coming from 

[willie wallace]

Only 5 days until Imperial College's forecast about Edinburgh comes into play.

They said we would be on a par with the Highlands and Islands by Nov.15

Limited crowds at Tynie coming up soon😃

[The Mighty Thor]

Good to see the SG closely following the science and data again this week and using their nuanced and flexible tier system to ram everyone into tier 3. 

 

Thats what arbitrary decisions are all about kids. 👍

[OmiyaHearts]

2 minutes ago, theshed said:

 

If you take the numbers from schools, care homes and house Parties and compare them with numbers from pubs and restaurants it shows exactly where the problems are coming from 

I mean, the cases in pubs & restaurants in Glasgow is currently zero. What more can the industry do?😄

[Nucky Thompson]

9 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

Same at Greggs in South Gyle Estate today. Probably 50-60 kids, no masks, no social distancing. 

 

 

They've probably got a wee game going, seeing how many old buggers that they can terrify 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

10 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I should think that the Lancet would be treated as a more authoritative source. Even taking the highest figure quoted in the Lancet article, 4%, the probability of all four family members being false positives would indeed be "very unlikely".

 

You are simply grasping at straws in order to promote your conspiracy theories. Try touching base with reality, you'll find that it is less comfortable but, in the long run, a healthier option.

 

your lack of statistical knowledge is shining through brightly here

 

also note I’m putting out suggestions for discussion you are the one making the strong statements “very unlikely” etc

 

conspiracy theory - you have just satisfied the condition suggested by that Neil Oliver prof guy who’s been noting that it’s not enough just to follow guidance (which I do) but you must believe it all be a convert and a promoter -  so thanks for that affirmed exactly what he said

 

if you can find a post from me saying covid doesn’t exist or this is part of a grand reset or something (hint : there are none) fair enough otherwise consider yourself olivered 😃

 

 

if you get time or the inclination check out some of those professor yeadon interviews or the main prof of evidence based statistics at Oxford chap henesomthing - if it’s conspiracy stuff you want don’t bother - if you want a bit of balance check it out

 

may (or may not) put you in a better place overall 

 

 

 

 

[Ray Gin]

1 hour ago, stevie1874 said:

The next time the pubs or restaurants open, maybe go out of your house and give it a try. 

 

I did. Different households were all sat at the same table.

 

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Barack said:

 

Be a certain poster along the now, advocating the return of the Birch, for such sickening regard for common decency & manners.

 

Personally, the Birch isn't such a bad idea. But that's another thread.

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12341136.boys-who-came-back-for-more/

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12341136.boys-who-came-back-for-more/

Barbaric really. Same with the belt. I await the usual reply " I got the belt and it did me no harm" 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

I think the east-west thing is a bit of a distraction tbh. It’s all central Scotland. Having different tiers is problematic and maybe even, in practice, not really possible at all. Could Cumbernauld ever be in level 3 and Glasgow be in level 2 for example? Or Musselburgh in level 2 but portobello in level 3. That’s not even mentioning the day trippers sponsored by Tennents Lager 😁. The whole thing is a pile of shite imo. The size of our country and the concentration of the population in the central belt makes me wonder who dreamt all this stuff up and how far they really thought it through. 

 

Good post.

 

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

That will be six to nine months to roll out effectively.

 

Buckle up.

 

6 minutes ago, Barack said:

 

Personally, the Birch isn't such a bad idea. 

 

Agreed.

[redjambo]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

Barbaric really. Same with the belt. I await the usual reply " I got the belt and it did me no harm" 

 

Indeed. Personally, I got the belt several times and all it did was make me despise authority.

[stevie1874]

8 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

I did. Different households were all sat at the same table.

 

Was out for drinks & meals lots of times and probably only seen 2 pubs where I felt they were lax with the rules.