Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[redjambo]

15 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Although the headline case number is up to 928 today, it was expected because of the artificially low figure reported yesterday which was affected by a delay in reporting test results.

 

The average over the last two days was 756, which is an improvement on the corresponding days last week when the two day average was 926. 

 

Perfect explanation. Thanks, FF.

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

Thank you both for these posts to answer my questions, and a really helpful article Red 👍

 

Apologies for the delay in reply and for now setting the thread back a few days.

 

No biggie at all, Taffin. When certain posters post on here, they set the thread back centuries.

 

Glad the article was useful.

[Cade]

AstraZenica vaccine only about 10% effective against the new South Africa strain.

 

That's not good news.

[Ron Burgundy]

Good to see lockdown hasn't stopped all those footballers from getting their snazzy haircuts. Pogbas new tram lines would embarrass a 13 year old boy never mind a fully grown adult.

 

And we must not allow a deadly virus to stop production of third rate TV programmes, councils closing roads and parks for these highly essential things.

[manaliveits105]

1 hour ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

They're just doing what they've done throughout. Saying they'll do something until it's either too late, doesn't matter or someone else does it for them. 

Fortunately up here the SG have quickly clamped down with an iron fist - only flights from London Dublin Amsterdam Belfast Paris Teneriffe Istanbul and Doha today at Edinburgh it would appear on airport flight radar . No quarantining set up yet and Scottish airports say they dont have a clue yet of what is expected of them when full quarantine comes in .

[redjambo]

11 minutes ago, Cade said:

AstraZenica vaccine only about 10% effective against the new South Africa strain.

 

That's not good news.

 

Which accentuates the need to ensure that it doesn't get a hold in this country by strictly policing and isolating incoming travellers.

[Weakened Offender]

2 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Fortunately up here the SG have quickly clamped down with an iron fist - only flights from London Dublin Amsterdam Belfast Paris Teneriffe Istanbul and Doha today at Edinburgh it would appear on airport flight radar . No quarantining set up yet and Scottish airports say they dont have a clue yet of what is expected of them when full quarantine comes in .

 

See! 😀

[JudyJudyJudy]

15 minutes ago, jonesy said:

James, I think the vast majority have been interpreting the rules around the domestic sphere in a reasonable and non-aggressive approach to non-compliance. My family certainly has - including a nice wee birthday dinner for my wife last night. But other than actually getting around to opening that speakeasy I was planning in the autumn, there's not a lot the average punter can do. 

 

The problem is at the commercial and institutional level, where fear of retribution and the all-important being seen to comply is what drives behaviour at decision-maker level. Decrees handed out arbitrarily from above by people who have their personal reputations to consider (not to mention the highly-charged, highly-political context Scotland finds itself in currently) means there will be no rush to 'open up' in 2021, despite the positive effects such a move would bring for the majority of people. The longer people are used to suffering, the more they will accept it as the default position. When the shit starts to hit the fan economically and educationally in terms of the tangible negative results of lockdowns being understood by the majority of the population, the current group of chancers in charge - both at WM and HR - will have ridden off into the sunset, claiming some kind of victory over a virus that didn't even know it was being fought, leaving the next group of self-interested charlatans ready to shout that they can sort things out.

Spot on Jonesy yet again . Yes many people are currently living in la la land regarding the  impact of lockdown which they believe isn’t affecting then just YET but it will eventually . The other parts if the population are in a mess due to the effects of lockdown . My point being in my posting when is there ever going to be a time lift exert restrictions if we keep shitting ourselves if and when more variants come along. It’s worrying 

[manaliveits105]

8 minutes ago, jonesy said:

And with Doha and Istanbul being in no way hubs by which people travel from all over the globe, we should be absolutely fine.

 

It'd be interesting to see how many folk were on those flights. Are passengers subject to self-isolating procedures upon arrival yet?

 just locator forms for trace which everyone must complete at present I think before landing

[NANOJAMBO]

15 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Spot on Jonesy yet again . Yes many people are currently living in la la land regarding the  impact of lockdown which they believe isn’t affecting then just YET but it will eventually . The other parts if the population are in a mess due to the effects of lockdown . My point being in my posting when is there ever going to be a time lift exert restrictions if we keep shitting ourselves if and when more variants come along. It’s worrying 

So what are you proposing ? 

[Weakened Offender]

4 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

So to be clear - do we lift that lockdown 100% right now? Or is it when everyone over 50 is vaccinated?

 

You do realise that you are asking someone who has went from washing their messages at the start of the pandemic to demanding pubs be kept open whilst schools are closed to accusing people of following the guidance during a global public health crisis of living in la-la-land?

[Weakened Offender]

3 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Not sure on James' position

 

😁😁😁😁😁😁😁

[Back to 2005]

Is there any argument in favour of lockdown when our death rate is one of the worst? 3rd in the world I think. 

[sadj]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

No biggie at all, Taffin. When certain posters post on here, they set the thread back centuries.

 

Glad the article was useful.

 

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

 

Thank you both for these posts to answer my questions, and a really helpful article Red 👍

 

Apologies for the delay in reply and for now setting the thread back a few days.

Beat me to it Red 🤣

 

No problem Taffin , I know my knowledge is limited but hopefully it helped

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, jonesy said:

A real lockdown, policed street by street and punished by nothing but jail time, would probably work. Thankfully the government have never even considered such a move.

 

Otherwise, UK society is far too fragmented, diverse and aware of its rights to do it properly. 

 

 

 

Short, sharp and effective lockdown would have seen people desperate to come out of it as soon as it had delivered the desired effect.

 

Slow, grinding down of people's sprits with a prolonged lockdown and restrictive measure will have result in a populace stripped of their vigour and instead either happy to get whatever crumbs are thrown their way, or a sort of Stockholm syndrome of wanting to keep restrictions.

 

The cynic in me thinks they chose this approach with their eyes wide open.

 

Edit to expand: I'd have hated a strict lockdown but I could have packaged it up in my head as a 3/6 month thing. The rolling reasons for restrictions to stay is much harder to process. Death by a thousand cuts, for me, is a worse fate I think. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Taffin

[sadj]

32 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

 just locator forms for trace which everyone must complete at present I think before landing

 

30 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Now with there being so few flights coming in you would think that they would be able to monitor those required to quarantine more effectively than before and help to ensure compliance. It would at least be a start.

My neighbours son came into Heathrow the through work and was contacted by NHS England to “please self isolate for 10 days” That was Thursday. So far there has been nothing further from them or checks from anyone else to see if he is self isolating. 

[sadj]

7 minutes ago, jonesy said:

A real lockdown, policed street by street and punished by nothing but jail time, would probably work. Thankfully the government have never even considered such a move.

 

Otherwise, UK society is far too fragmented, diverse and aware of its rights to do it properly. 

 

 

You missed out on for the most part ignorant bar social media posts from random people with no clue and too self absorbed to give a shit about others.... Not just a UK society issue though😉

[Back to 2005]

11 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Short, sharp and effective lockdown would have seen people desperate to come out of it as soon as it had delivered the desired effect.

 

Slow, grinding down of people's sprits with a prolonged lockdown and restrictive measure will have result in a populace stripped of their vigour and instead either happy to get whatever crumbs are thrown their way, or a sort of Stockholm syndrome of wanting to keep restrictions.

 

The cynic in me thinks they chose this approach with their eyes wide open.

They employ behavioural scientists for a reason.

[redjambo]

Scottish numbers: 8 February 2021

Summary

• 928 new cases of COVID-19 reported [+344 - see FF's post above for note]
• 16,583 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results – 6.6% of these were positive [+7,104; -0.3%]
• 5 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive (noting that Register Offices are now generally closed at weekends) [-2]
• 108 people are in intensive care with recently confirmed COVID-19 [=]
• 1,672 people are in hospital with recently confirmed COVID-19 [-38]
• 866,823 people have received the first dose of the Covid vaccination and 10,690 have received their second dose [+27,557; +108]

[JudyJudyJudy]

30 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

So what are you proposing ? 

Open up. Keep the vaccines going for all the groups . But if people want to shield or stay at home give them the support to do so.  Unfortunately theres always going to be new strains etc so need to live with that.  https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-south-africa-halts-rollout-of-astrazeneca-jab-due-to-limited-protection-12211970?fbclid=IwAR3HbN_heZj9NcOGwveFShC7-XTsc3fd_YYRX-tzTgt3MZxUsua8YmvShxU

 

A response to this article.  

"Two very interesting things about this report:

Firstly South African labs did their own independent research on the efficacy of the "vaccines" and found it to be way lower than the Press Release had claimed. Many scientists complained that the wild claims of 95% effective had come with no details of the trials and should not have been taken on face value, but the UK Govt told them to shut up and stop being killjoys! South Africa seems to have vindicated those voices of concern.

And once again, you walked into the latest game of the Govt - get vaccinated and we'll let you out of the prison we've created around you - just for them to change the rules! Now you'll need a third vaccination! That's three times a pharma company gets to put their product into you without you being sick!

For goodness sake stop being these peoples' punch bag.

[JudyJudyJudy]

31 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

You do realise that you are asking someone who has went from washing their messages at the start of the pandemic to demanding pubs be kept open whilst schools are closed to accusing people of following the guidance during a global public health crisis of living in la-la-land?

Fake news " mate",.  Never once said schools should be closed. In fact always argued for schools to be open due to their low transmissions levels similar to pubs and restaurants really. Yeah Ive moved on from the brain washing last March and April. Most people with a brain have. 

[Ray Gin]

 

29 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Is there any argument in favour of lockdown when our death rate is one of the worst? 3rd in the world I think. 

 

Is there any argument against lockdown when our death rate is one of the worst?

 

You think opening up and letting everyone catch it will drive the numbers down?

 

We've locked down and things are massively improving compared to where we were in mid December. No lockdown and it would have been catastrophic.

 

 

 

[the general]

40 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

 just locator forms for trace which everyone must complete at present I think before landing

 

When I came back from Lisbon they did not check that you had filled one in and even if you did fill one in you could just write any old  info you wanted .... phone number address etc.

Thats why hotel quarantine is so important

[Adam_the_legend]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

AstraZenica vaccine only about 10% effective against the new South Africa strain.

 

That's not good news.

Scaremongering nonsense headline by the Guardian

 

 

[DETTY29]

On 07/02/2021 at 14:07, DETTY29 said:

Good day on the vaccination front yesterday.

 

52839 first doses.

 

As at 8:30am on Sunday 7 February:

• 839,266 people have received the first dose of the Covid vaccination and 10,582 have received their second dose
• 29,863 care home residents (99.5% of residents in older adult care homes and 93% of residents in all care homes)
• 40,295 care home staff (90% of staff in older adult care homes and 77% of staff in all care homes)
• 235,089 people aged 80 or over living in the community (94%) – this excludes care home residents who are reported separately
• 273,086 frontline health and social care workers exceeding the initial target of 230,000 staff provided by Health Boards
• 121,447 people aged 75-79 living in the community (64%) – this excludes care home residents who are reported separately
• 72,734 people aged 70-74 living in the community (26%) – this excludes care home residents who are reported separately

 

27557 first doses yesterday compared to 9628 last Sunday.

 

All these jumps in last week don't just happen over course of a few days planning and frankly some politicians should hang heads in shame on the rhetoric they alluded to last week.  Yes, question why a bit more mass vaccing wasn't put into plans but stop this signficantly behind schedule, missing targets* compare v. months old aspirational statements, immediate army impact.

 

* Not sure why we still have leadership politicians saying ALL being vaccinated or not talking about 1st v. 2nd vaccinations.  Just setting up for opposition criticism despite them knowing full well that ALL can't be realistically achieved and you aren't vaccinated in full till 2nd jag, if at all ever.

 

 

 

As at 8:30am on Monday 8 February:

• 866,823 people have received the first dose of the Covid vaccination and 10,690 have received their second dose
•  
• 29,865 care home residents (99.6% of residents in older adult care homes and 93% of residents in all care homes)
• 40,458 care home staff (90% of staff in older adult care homes and 78% of staff in all care homes)
• 236,763 people aged 80 or over living in the community (95%) – this excludes care home residents who are reported separately
• 275,631 frontline health and social care workers exceeding the initial target of 230,000 staff provided by Health Boards.
• 128,072 people aged 75-79 living in the community (67%) – this excludes care home residents who are reported separately
• 80,654 people aged 70-74 living in the community (29%) – this excludes care home residents who are reported separately.  

Edited February 8, 2021 by DETTY29

[kila]

Hopefully the South African variant is still suppressed somewhat by the Oxford vaccine and so still limits hospitalisations. The fewer people who get really sick the less chance of new variants I think?

 

I'm still optimistic for this year. It'll not be normality yet, but we'll taste it in the summer and autumn will be all about the 'top up' dose. Then next year it'll be blended in with the flu vaccine programme - imagine a scenario where it is just the one jag for them both?

 

 

[redjambo]

The latest 7-day stats. A slight uptick in the national case rate due to yesterday's reporting issue, but otherwise still heading in the right direction.

 

		Pre-	7-day per-100,000 cases
Council Area	Tier	Lockdown	Today	Yesterday			6 Feb	5 Feb	4 Feb	3 Feb	2 Feb	...	20 Dec
Scotland			113	111	+2		119	121	125	126	132	...	98
Falkirk	4	2	227	239	-12		243	226	218	194	178	...	60
Clackmannanshire	4	3	213	210	+3		186	179	171	171	177	...	148
North Lanarkshire	4	3	179	171	+8		181	183	192	202	216	...	119
West Dunbartonshire	4	3	171	168	+3		180	180	170	175	166	...	120
Glasgow City	4	3	166	159	+7		176	183	190	190	199	...	129
Renfrewshire	4	3	160	156	+4		166	173	179	173	174	...	116
Stirling	4	3	149	139	+10		139	134	136	132	138	...	70
South Lanarkshire	4	3	148	156	-8		161	162	176	178	187	...	120
East Ayrshire	4	3	145	139	+6		157	152	155	162	169	...	153
North Ayrshire	4	3	134	122	+12		153	157	169	170	180	...	175
East Renfrewshire	4	3	130	134	-4		144	149	154	169	185	...	101
Angus	4	2	120	118	+2		121	111	108	101	120	...	37
East Dunbartonshire	4	3	117	122	-5		129	140	155	164	173	...	70
Na h-Eileanan Siar	4	1	112	97	+15		97	86	82	97	97	...	22
South Ayrshire	4	3	108	103	+5		106	112	123	123	128	...	98
West Lothian	4	3	108	107	+1		126	130	138	134	145	...	83
Dundee City	4	3	105	121	-16		131	127	126	125	124	...	113
Inverclyde	4	2	103	114	-11		130	140	140	134	147	...	59
Argyll & Bute	4/3	2	102	95	+7		97	98	89	84	80	...	29
East Lothian	4	3	99	86	+13		92	86	91	81	78	...	148
Midlothian	4	3	88	90	-2		85	100	105	101	117	...	136
Dumfries & Galloway	4	1	85	80	+5		92	101	103	111	133	...	32
Moray	4	1	82	72	+10		82	81	83	95	90	...	13
Edinburgh City	4	3	66	66	0		67	62	66	68	71	...	109
Perth and Kinross	4	3	65	61	+4		79	91	99	104	109	...	126
Highland	4/3	1	62	51	+11		59	59	59	64	64	...	17
Fife	4	3	61	66	-5		70	70	78	81	84	...	97
Aberdeen City	4	3	57	58	-1		52	55	58	66	74	...	163
Furrybootshire	4	3	56	57	-1		55	64	62	58	67	...	88
Scottish Borders	4	1	52	58	-6		63	66	76	69	77	...	85
Orkney Islands	3	1	4	4	0		4	4	4	9	9	...	0
Shetland Islands	3	1	4	4	0		0	0	0	0	0	...	0
7-day averages
Tests			18450	17583	+867		18252	18840	19038	18793	19328	...	16839
Positivity rate %			5.7	5.9	-0.2		6.1	6.0	6.2	6.3	6.5	...	5.2
Hospital (non-ICU)			1668	1703	-35		1731	1760	1780	1802	1821	...	975
ICU			122	127	-5		132	136	139	141	143	...	50
Deaths			47	47	0		47	49	50	54	55	...	25
All Vaccinations			41981	39412	+2569		35122	32742	N/A	27062	25023
1st Dose			41575	39014	+2561		34737	32394	N/A	26753	24697
2nd Dose			406	398	+8		385	348	N/A	309	326

[Victorian]

Phase 1 of the vaccination roll-out was 100% purposed at providing as much health protection as possible to the maximum number of people as possible.  Hence the longer spaced dosage schedule.  No part of this phase is concerned with reducing / changing / ending the epidemic.  It is to prevent deaths and ease pressure on hospitals.  Phase 2 is when jabs are put into people for the main purpose of reducing the epidemic but there were uncertainties and there are more uncertainties now.  The effectiveness of the vaccine to reduce the epidemic is heavily influenced by the virus sterilising properties of the vaccine.  The vaccine may be much less effective at reducing transmission of the South African variant and future variants.  This latest uncertainty tends to make it crucial to know how and under what circumstances the South African variant would or could become the dominant strain in this country.  If it never becomes dominant then the theorised low performance of virus sterilisation from the vaccine becomes less important.  If it quickly becomes dominant then that may be a concern if it causes an effect ahead of the next generation of the vaccine being rolled out in the Autumn.  Question is... will the South African variant find it easier to become the dominant strain in competition with the Kent variant under no suppression or under certain suppression?  One for the genuine experts to discover.  Virologists and epidemiologists.  

 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Victorian

[manaliveits105]

jeez a lot of plus figures today - disappointing 

[The Real Maroonblood]

13 minutes ago, redjambo said:

The latest 7-day stats. A slight uptick in the national case rate due to yesterday's reporting issue, but otherwise still heading in the right direction.

 

		Pre-	7-day per-100,000 cases
Council Area	Tier	Lockdown	Today	Yesterday			6 Feb	5 Feb	4 Feb	3 Feb	2 Feb	...	20 Dec
Scotland			113	111	+2		119	121	125	126	132	...	98
Falkirk	4	2	227	239	-12		243	226	218	194	178	...	60
Clackmannanshire	4	3	213	210	+3		186	179	171	171	177	...	148
North Lanarkshire	4	3	179	171	+8		181	183	192	202	216	...	119
West Dunbartonshire	4	3	171	168	+3		180	180	170	175	166	...	120
Glasgow City	4	3	166	159	+7		176	183	190	190	199	...	129
Renfrewshire	4	3	160	156	+4		166	173	179	173	174	...	116
Stirling	4	3	149	139	+10		139	134	136	132	138	...	70
South Lanarkshire	4	3	148	156	-8		161	162	176	178	187	...	120
East Ayrshire	4	3	145	139	+6		157	152	155	162	169	...	153
North Ayrshire	4	3	134	122	+12		153	157	169	170	180	...	175
East Renfrewshire	4	3	130	134	-4		144	149	154	169	185	...	101
Angus	4	2	120	118	+2		121	111	108	101	120	...	37
East Dunbartonshire	4	3	117	122	-5		129	140	155	164	173	...	70
Na h-Eileanan Siar	4	1	112	97	+15		97	86	82	97	97	...	22
South Ayrshire	4	3	108	103	+5		106	112	123	123	128	...	98
West Lothian	4	3	108	107	+1		126	130	138	134	145	...	83
Dundee City	4	3	105	121	-16		131	127	126	125	124	...	113
Inverclyde	4	2	103	114	-11		130	140	140	134	147	...	59
Argyll & Bute	4/3	2	102	95	+7		97	98	89	84	80	...	29
East Lothian	4	3	99	86	+13		92	86	91	81	78	...	148
Midlothian	4	3	88	90	-2		85	100	105	101	117	...	136
Dumfries & Galloway	4	1	85	80	+5		92	101	103	111	133	...	32
Moray	4	1	82	72	+10		82	81	83	95	90	...	13
Edinburgh City	4	3	66	66	0		67	62	66	68	71	...	109
Perth and Kinross	4	3	65	61	+4		79	91	99	104	109	...	126
Highland	4/3	1	62	51	+11		59	59	59	64	64	...	17
Fife	4	3	61	66	-5		70	70	78	81	84	...	97
Aberdeen City	4	3	57	58	-1		52	55	58	66	74	...	163
Furrybootshire	4	3	56	57	-1		55	64	62	58	67	...	88
Scottish Borders	4	1	52	58	-6		63	66	76	69	77	...	85
Orkney Islands	3	1	4	4	0		4	4	4	9	9	...	0
Shetland Islands	3	1	4	4	0		0	0	0	0	0	...	0
7-day averages
Tests			18450	17583	+867		18252	18840	19038	18793	19328	...	16839
Positivity rate %			5.7	5.9	-0.2		6.1	6.0	6.2	6.3	6.5	...	5.2
Hospital (non-ICU)			1668	1703	-35		1731	1760	1780	1802	1821	...	975
ICU			122	127	-5		132	136	139	141	143	...	50
Deaths			47	47	0		47	49	50	54	55	...	25
All Vaccinations			41981	39412	+2569		35122	32742	N/A	27062	25023
1st Dose			41575	39014	+2561		34737	32394	N/A	26753	24697
2nd Dose			406	398	+8		385	348	N/A	309	326

👍

[Malinga the Swinga]

Still believe that we are going about this wrong way round. Protecting folk aged 70, 80, 90 and above to allow them to live a few more months while younger generations see their jobs, careers and futures torn to ribbons without any concern as to how this will all be paid back in long run. 

Should have vaccinated those working, students and front line staff way before the oldies, but we made decision and future generations will suffer because of it. 

Those with their pensions protected certainly won't want to be inconvenienced by reducing their income but will be happy to see others work on, way beyond when they themselves retired, but that is what happens when country run by old folk. 

Speaking as someone approaching 60, I find my parents generation to be one of the most selfish groups, who having created the environment that brought Climate change, now are happy to sit back and watch others suffer again to benefit them. 

[Taffin]

17 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Yer even more cynical than me, Taff! I think they believed they had more or less solved things over the summer.

 

The Aussies and Kiwis are looking good at the moment, but they do appear to be living in a kind of constant fear of importing the virus again (although it'd hard for them to become any more insular, anyway... 😛 ). However, am not there, so no idea what it's like in reality. Just going by how their reaction to isolated cases are being reported. 

 

I'm now at ease with the idea that 2021 and up until 2022's Spring will see restrictions on freedom of movement and gatherings. UK society is not going to be the same on the other side. Whether that's been part of the design is a discussion that could be had on here, but the certain offenders are likely to come bouncing in with their usual posts to ensure any sensible discussion is kicked off course  

 

 

 

 

 

It is cynicism, but it's also driven by my inability to accept that their response could be so incompetent.

 

They've neither protected freedoms, nor have they delivered a strong performance in managing the crisis. That surely can't just be down to incompetence? 

 

The messaging around the importance of the vaccine being our saviour and then rolling back to say the vaccine isn't enough etc just feels too orchestrated. Give us hope, and then crush it. It's straight out of the population control playbook. Why? I've no idea, maybe just opportunism to deconstruct society so they can rebuild it in their image. Afterall, that's the aim of a politician really, make change to society in alignment to their beliefs.

 

It just feels like a re-setting of what our existence is to me. A path to becoming the humans in Wall-E 😂😂 

 

I'm sure some will love it, and more power to them, it's not for me though. 

[Victorian]

20 minutes ago, kila said:

Hopefully the South African variant is still suppressed somewhat by the Oxford vaccine and so still limits hospitalisations. The fewer people who get really sick the less chance of new variants I think?

 

I'm still optimistic for this year. It'll not be normality yet, but we'll taste it in the summer and autumn will be all about the 'top up' dose. Then next year it'll be blended in with the flu vaccine programme - imagine a scenario where it is just the one jag for them both?

 

 

 

It will.  It will still greatly reduce severe disease.  The latest news is that it probably has a reduced efficacy against mild illness.  Any further variants will mainly be driven by epidemiology.  Volume of virus.  Ease of spread.  Dominance of strains.  

 

Unfortunately the only thing of much certainty right now is short to medium term uncertainty.  Hopefully the answers still allow restrictions to be eased.

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Still believe that we are going about this wrong way round. Protecting folk aged 70, 80, 90 and above to allow them to live a few more months while younger generations see their jobs, careers and futures torn to ribbons without any concern as to how this will all be paid back in long run. 

Should have vaccinated those working, students and front line staff way before the oldies, but we made decision and future generations will suffer because of it. 

Those with their pensions protected certainly won't want to be inconvenienced by reducing their income but will be happy to see others work on, way beyond when they themselves retired, but that is what happens when country run by old folk. 

Speaking as someone approaching 60, I find my parents generation to be one of the most selfish groups, who having created the environment that brought Climate change, now are happy to sit back and watch others suffer again to benefit them. 

👍😃

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Still believe that we are going about this wrong way round. Protecting folk aged 70, 80, 90 and above to allow them to live a few more months while younger generations see their jobs, careers and futures torn to ribbons without any concern as to how this will all be paid back in long run. 

Should have vaccinated those working, students and front line staff way before the oldies, but we made decision and future generations will suffer because of it. 

Those with their pensions protected certainly won't want to be inconvenienced by reducing their income but will be happy to see others work on, way beyond when they themselves retired, but that is what happens when country run by old folk. 

Speaking as someone approaching 60, I find my parents generation to be one of the most selfish groups, who having created the environment that brought Climate change, now are happy to sit back and watch others suffer again to benefit them. 

 

No they had to prevent severe disease first.  If only to end the saturation level of covid in the hospitals.  The NHS has a mammoth task ahead to catch up on all the non covid workload and the hospitals need to be rid of covid to enable as much to be done as possible.

 

The second phase is about epidemiology + the economy.  Your points become valid in determining how the vaccines stocks are used to return society,  education and the economy to something near normal.  

 

Going forward I think it will be treated like two separate public health programmes.  One to protect the people most likely to end up in hospital and the other to maintain normal life.  

[Adam_the_legend]

12 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Still believe that we are going about this wrong way round. Protecting folk aged 70, 80, 90 and above to allow them to live a few more months while younger generations see their jobs, careers and futures torn to ribbons without any concern as to how this will all be paid back in long run. 

Should have vaccinated those working, students and front line staff way before the oldies, but we made decision and future generations will suffer because of it. 

Those with their pensions protected certainly won't want to be inconvenienced by reducing their income but will be happy to see others work on, way beyond when they themselves retired, but that is what happens when country run by old folk. 

Speaking as someone approaching 60, I find my parents generation to be one of the most selfish groups, who having created the environment that brought Climate change, now are happy to sit back and watch others suffer again to benefit them. 

I disagree with this. The main reason we are suffering from all these restrictions and lockdowns is due to hospitalisations and deaths. Vaccinating younger people means death rates continue as the people most likely to die are not protected. Get those death numbers down and there really is no excuse to keep us all in lockdown any more.  Vaccinating the oldies first SHOULD mean a quicker return to normality🤞🏻 

[The Real Maroonblood]

8 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

I disagree with this. The main reason we are suffering from all these restrictions and lockdowns is due to hospitalisations and deaths. Vaccinating younger people means death rates continue as the people most likely to die are not protected. Get those death numbers down and there really is no excuse to keep us all in lockdown any more.  Vaccinating the oldies first SHOULD mean a quicker return to normality🤞🏻 

Fair comment.

[Ray Gin]

57 minutes ago, jonesy said:

I thought December/January was catastrophic? 

 

Not nearly as bad as it would have been with no lockdown.

 

[Dagger Is Back]

33 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

No they had to prevent severe disease first.  If only to end the saturation level of covid in the hospitals.  The NHS has a mammoth task ahead to catch up on all the non covid workload and the hospitals need to be rid of covid to enable as much to be done as possible.

 

The second phase is about epidemiology + the economy.  Your points become valid in determining how the vaccines stocks are used to return society,  education and the economy to something near normal.  

 

Going forward I think it will be treated like two separate public health programmes.  One to protect the people most likely to end up in hospital and the other to maintain normal life.  

 

I agree with you 100%. It's also about those who work with the NHS and the immense pressure that they've be under physically and mentally. It's been a difficult balance but overall I think we've got this part right.

[Brighton Jambo]

I’ve not been on this thread in a while.  It’s safe to say the same disagreements on lockdown seem to be raging.

 

I really hope each party lays out a clear route out of the restrictions and what the plans are for hospitality and other key areas ahead of the Scottish elections so people can make a choice on the approach they want.  
 

Twitter chatter (so probably nonsense) is that the Scottish Conservatives are going to lay out an alternative to sturgeons expected road map that will promise to get back to normality sooner including prioritising hospitality and sporting events etc.  Also promising to match UK government approach to borders which will mean people in Scotland can have a foreign holiday this year.  
 

Be interesting to see where that leaves Scottish Labour.  

[Weakened Offender]

2 hours ago, Back to 2005 said:

Is there any argument in favour of lockdown when our death rate is one of the worst? 3rd in the world I think. 

 

FFS 😁

[Back to 2005]

1 hour ago, Ray Gin said:

 

 

Is there any argument against lockdown when our death rate is one of the worst?

 

You think opening up and letting everyone catch it will drive the numbers down?

 

We've locked down and things are massively improving compared to where we were in mid December. No lockdown and it would have been catastrophic.

 

 

 

Same is happening all over the world no matter what the severity of the lockdown. I appreciate Sweden is the elephant in the room but...

Sorry but saying things would have been worse does not cut it any more. How many have died because of the lockdowns? 

[Back to 2005]

20 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

FFS 😁

Good to see your posts are still up to their usual level....

[Brighton Jambo]

13 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

I'm not sure that a tactic of voting for us and you get the same as the Conservatives does south is going to be very successful. They will still get the Pro-Union vote they have picked up recently but it will not attract Labour or Liberal voters. I also doubt Ross is going to appeal to conservative voters in Scotland more than Ruth Davidson.

 

Do you really think "we'll be a week ahead on removing restrictions" is going to alter the course of a Scottish election?

It’s not my idea I was just reporting what I have been seeing.  
 

I think the Scottish Conservatives are going to get hammered at the Scottish elections so they might was well throw a Hail Mary.  If they could set out a vision that gave Scottish people holidays and a promise of more normality sooner including for example hospitality opening and being able to see more friends and family  sooner then it may tempt some desperate people.

 

Will it stop the SNP winning, not a chance, will it throw a cat amongst the pigeons maybe. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Brighton Jambo

[Ray Gin]

1 minute ago, Back to 2005 said:

Same is happening all over the world no matter what the severity of the lockdown. I appreciate Sweden is the elephant in the room but...

Sorry but saying things would have been worse does not cut it any more. How many have died because of the lockdowns? 

 

Sweden is the elephant in the room? Their strategy went tits up and was abandoned. Their cases went through the roof and lockdown was imposed last month.

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Still believe that we are going about this wrong way round. Protecting folk aged 70, 80, 90 and above to allow them to live a few more months while younger generations see their jobs, careers and futures torn to ribbons without any concern as to how this will all be paid back in long run. 

Should have vaccinated those working, students and front line staff way before the oldies, but we made decision and future generations will suffer because of it. 

Those with their pensions protected certainly won't want to be inconvenienced by reducing their income but will be happy to see others work on, way beyond when they themselves retired, but that is what happens when country run by old folk. 

Speaking as someone approaching 60, I find my parents generation to be one of the most selfish groups, who having created the environment that brought Climate change, now are happy to sit back and watch others suffer again to benefit them. 

The people approaching 60 should be included. 

They're a waste of space. 

[Weakened Offender]

3 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Good to see your posts are still up to their usual level....

 

****ing cheek of you! 😁

 

People still die in car crashes, should we all stop wearing seat belts? 

[Weakened Offender]

2 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

The people approaching 60 should be included. 

They're a waste of space. 

 

😁

[Weakened Offender]

6 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

I appreciate Sweden is the elephant in the room but...

 

........ 😬

[The Real Maroonblood]

Just now, Lord BJ said:

I don’t think we will go back into the tier system, when they ease restrictions. Think they will have a different route map out this time. 

I tend to agree.