Budge should leave at the end of the season

[OldGorgie]

21 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

 

1) I've questioned some of the business decisions she's been responsible for. Awarding the contract for the new stand to her brother-in-law.  The stand being over budget and not to what was promised. Letting Levein run the football into the ground, wasting decent amounts of money on absolute duds. And that's before you analyse the PR nightmare statements she's fired out in the past few years. She's made many high profile mistakes. Whether or not she's responsible for wealthy benefactors putting their hands in their pockets, I don't believe that's a good business model in the long term.

 

2) You responded to my original post with some hyperbolic rubbish about me wishing the club had just died. Completely missing my point and instead being a bit of an arsehole because you didn't like my alternative take. The standard of debate on Kickback is truly dreadful.

 

3) You shouldn't cry when someone makes a negative assessment of Ann Budge. Because it makes you look foolish.

Are you sure you support Hearts. Your post looks like a cut and paste job from Hibbiescum.net

[The Hogfather]

Just now, OldGorgie said:

Are you sure you support Hearts. Your post looks like a cut and paste job from Hibbiescum.net

 

I get it, criticising Ann Budge on any matter means you support Hibernian. Very clever.

 

There we go chum.

[OldGorgie]

25 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

 

I get it, criticising Ann Budge on any matter means you support Hibernian. Very clever.

 

There we go chum.

The reason I made that remark was simple. Either you are a Hobo or fail to understand the enormous difficulties in turning a company in administration (bankrupt)  to one where income is going up every year and is profitable. Oh and we have a brand new stand . No other owner achieved that. Your comments about nepotism are Ill conceived and are spiteful.

[The Hogfather]

11 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

The reason I made that remark was simple. Either you are a Hobo or fail to understand the enormous difficulties in turning a company in administration (bankrupt)  to one where income is going up every year and is profitable. Oh and we have a brand new stand . No other owner achieved that. Your comments about nepotism are Ill conceived and are spiteful.

 

Hearts posted a profit because of benefactor donations. Being aware of that doesn't make me support Hibernian. This is as far as I'm going to take this discussion with you, as any grown man who uses the term "Hobos" clearly doesn't have anything to add to any discussion. I look forward to you claiming I'm a Hibs fan, because you don't like what I'm saying.

[GinRummy]

16 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

The reason I made that remark was simple. Either you are a Hobo or fail to understand the enormous difficulties in turning a company in administration (bankrupt)  to one where income is going up every year and is profitable. Oh and we have a brand new stand . No other owner achieved that. Your comments about nepotism are Ill conceived and are spiteful.

In administration is not the same as bankrupt.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

18 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

The reason I made that remark was simple. Either you are a Hobo or fail to understand the enormous difficulties in turning a company in administration (bankrupt)  to one where income is going up every year and is profitable. Oh and we have a brand new stand . No other owner achieved that. Your comments about nepotism are Ill conceived and are spiteful.

No one would deny that the business is unrecognisable. The work done on that side has been mega.

 

But it’s a mark of our footballing ambition that it literally took until we were relegation fodder for Budge to do something about Levein. That’s how bad it needed to get.

[Sid]

2 hours ago, Nunya Business said:

 

Hearts posted a profit because of benefactor donations. Being aware of that doesn't make me support Hibernian. This is as far as I'm going to take this discussion with you, as any grown man who uses the term "Hobos" clearly doesn't have anything to add to any discussion. I look forward to you claiming I'm a Hibs fan, because you don't like what I'm saying.

you moan about people not being able to express a view on Ann on a forum.  Then when challenged on your view in a very simple and clear way, refuse to answer the question. 
would you describe that as adult or childish. 

[The Hogfather]

1 minute ago, Sid said:

you moan about people not being able to express a view on Ann on a forum.  Then when challenged on your view in a very simple and clear way, refuse to answer the question. 
would you describe that as adult or childish. 
 

you crying hobbo. 

 

It would've helped if he'd actually asked me a question.

[OldGorgie]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

In administration is not the same as bankrupt.

Administration protects companies from bankruptcy. Without the intervention of AB Hearts would have been declared bankrupt and ceased to exist. Amongst the obvious difficulties of administration is finding a bank prepared to deal with you, not having access to investment except from her own money, finding companies prepared to deal with you and extend credit lines. 

[OldGorgie]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

No one would deny that the business is unrecognisable. The work done on that side has been mega.

 

But it’s a mark of our footballing ambition that it literally took until we were relegation fodder for Budge to do something about Levein. That’s how bad it needed to get.

Have you just started watching Hearts? I’ve watched them since the late 1950’s and seen far worse messes made by the clubs previous boards and owners. You should be grateful that AB saved the club, will pass ownership to the fans and still works hard for the club because she’s a Jambo.

[JamboAndrew]

2 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

Have you just started watching Hearts? I’ve watched them since the late 1950’s and seen far worse messes made by the clubs previous boards and owners. You should be grateful that AB saved the club, will pass ownership to the fans and still works hard for the club because she’s a Jambo.

 

This, 100% agree.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

Have you just started watching Hearts? I’ve watched them since the late 1950’s and seen far worse messes made by the clubs previous boards and owners. You should be grateful that AB saved the club, will pass ownership to the fans and still works hard for the club because she’s a Jambo.

I’m 40 mate, don’t bore me with tales of the war.

[OldGorgie]

4 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I’m 40 mate, don’t bore me with tales of the war.

Then don’t make comments about something you can’t comprehend. 

[Paris 84]

17 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I’m 40 mate, don’t bore me with tales of the war.

 

The war finished in 1945. What a ****in drama queen!! How do you think you’d cope watching us getting beat seven heehaw by Hibs, or relegated with no 15 point deduction against teams like Ayr United. Get a grip you’re  40 FFS, a terrible season for you is dropping points against Hibs at home. Ann Budge, is the best owner this club has ever had, bar none. 

[OldGorgie]

26 minutes ago, Paris 84 said:

 

The war finished in 1945. What a ****in drama queen!! How do you think you’d cope watching us getting beat seven heehaw by Hibs, or relegated with no 15 point deduction against teams like Ayr United. Get a grip you’re  40 FFS, a terrible season for you is dropping points against Hibs at home. Ann Budge, is the best owner this club has ever had, bar none. 

👍👍👍👍👍

[luckydug]

2 hours ago, Nunya Business said:

 

Hearts posted a profit because of benefactor donations. Being aware of that doesn't make me support Hibernian. This is as far as I'm going to take this discussion with you, as any grown man who uses the term "Hobos" clearly doesn't have anything to add to any discussion. I look forward to you claiming I'm a Hibs fan, because you don't like what I'm saying.

Without the benefactor donations we would have made a loss of 400k.

Only we wouldn't have really because some projects like the top notch pitch would have been scaled back. 

In other words we wouldn't have spent what we didn't have. 

You are entitled to your opinion of course but the bottom line is we would have been screwed without Ann Budge. 

Anyway people will have the opportunity to voice any concerns at the forthcoming AGM. 

I look forward to you putting your points across either in person or by e mail. 

 

 

 

 

[The Hogfather]

3 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Without the benefactor donations we would have made a loss of 400k.

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

[luckydug]

37 minutes ago, Paris 84 said:

 

The war finished in 1945. What a ****in drama queen!! How do you think you’d cope watching us getting beat seven heehaw by Hibs, or relegated with no 15 point deduction against teams like Ayr United. Get a grip you’re  40 FFS, a terrible season for you is dropping points against Hibs at home. Ann Budge, is the best owner this club has ever had, bar none. 

Aye and we ran the other guy who saved our bacon out of the club as well. 

Some Hearts fans are bunch of ungrateful sods. 

We don't deserve such great people as Ann Budge and Wallace Mercer. But for those two we would have been history. 

[luckydug]

3 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

Why not quote the rest of my post? 

Or does that not suit your agenda? 

[The Hogfather]

Just now, luckydug said:

Why not quote the rest of my post? 

Or does that not suit your agenda? 

 

I stopped reading after your first sentence as it backed up what I've been saying. Thanks for that.

[colinmaroon]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I’m 40 mate, don’t bore me with tales of the war.

 

But what age are you?

 

 

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I’m 40 mate, don’t bore me with tales of the war.

Ignorance is bliss.

[OldGorgie]

25 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Aye and we ran the other guy who saved our bacon out of the club as well. 

Some Hearts fans are bunch of ungrateful sods. 

We don't deserve such great people as Ann Budge and Wallace Mercer. But for those two we would have been history. 

The great and sadly late Wallace Mercer. He took our club back to its rightful position. A great Hearts man.

[Jarhead]

It’s a shame as there are some very very good aspects to Budge’s time but as the late Mr Mercer said “the only things fans give a toss about is having players they can support “.

 The end of her time in charge can’t come soon enough for me.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 hours ago, OldGorgie said:

Administration protects companies from bankruptcy. Without the intervention of AB Hearts would have been declared bankrupt and ceased to exist. Amongst the obvious difficulties of administration is finding a bank prepared to deal with you, not having access to investment except from her own money, finding companies prepared to deal with you and extend credit lines. 

No it doesn’t. Companies can’t go bankrupt.

[Prof]

8 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

No it doesn’t. Companies can’t go bankrupt.

Most people use the term bankruptcy instead of liquidation for companies in the UK. Despite that the terms mean the same. 

[GinRummy]

9 hours ago, Jarhead said:

It’s a shame as there are some very very good aspects to Budge’s time but as the late Mr Mercer said “the only things fans give a toss about is having players they can support “.

 The end of her time in charge can’t come soon enough for me.

 

I just don't get this. I'm the first to criticise her for her mistakes and weirdly there are some on here who think she can do no wrong.

 

The truth is, she's acted in getting rid of Levein and brought in a manager most fans wanted. Like it or not, the business side gives us the opportunity to spend cash on decent players and managers and she's done a great job on that front.

 

Why on earth would we want to get rid of her now? 

 

 

[Hearts1975]

31 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

 

I just don't get this. I'm the first to criticise her for her mistakes and weirdly there are some on here who think she can do no wrong.

 

The truth is, she's acted in getting rid of Levein and brought in a manager most fans wanted. Like it or not, the business side gives us the opportunity to spend cash on decent players and managers and she's done a great job on that front.

 

Why on earth would we want to get rid of her now? 

 

 

I slated her heavily for her procrastination to get rid of Levein earlier but she has made an appointment and brought on board a manager who is renowned for attacking spectacular play and which is a completely different concept to Leveins style 

 

For this reason alone I’m prepared to back her and give her full support moving forward as I do believe she is human and also realises that Levein was a mistake and is going all out to change our circumstances for the better. She should get another chance with this now she has thrown the dead weight from her own neck 

 

Absolutely prepared to give her another chance and I’m over the moon with her new appointment quite frankly 

[GinRummy]

12 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

I slated her heavily for her procrastination to get rid of Levein earlier but she has made an appointment and brought on board a manager who is renowned for attacking spectacular play and which is a completely different concept to Leveins style 

 

For this reason alone I’m prepared to back her and give her full support moving forward as I do believe she is human and also realises that Levein was a mistake and is going all out to change our circumstances for the better. She should get another chance with this now she has thrown the dead weight from her own neck 

 

Absolutely prepared to give her another chance and I’m over the moon with her new appointment quite frankly 

 

Well said.

[Stewart MacD]

12 hours ago, OldGorgie said:

Then don’t make comments about something you can’t comprehend. 

👏👏👏

[It should have been ten]

On 07/12/2019 at 22:38, Sid said:

You would have preferred to let our club die then. 
When Vlad left us in the shit and we went in to administration, we weren’t profitable. 
Ann and her beneficiaries stepping in were the only thing that prevented the club from dying. FOC contributions could not have saved us. 
But feel free to abuse our saviour. 

 

On 08/12/2019 at 08:13, Icon of Symmetry said:

Very well put. Started when she began launching the bigots. 
 

The Queen of Hearts will rightly be remembered as one of the most important individuals in our club’s history. A grand lady.

 

23 hours ago, DH1986 said:

Ann Budge has publically admitted that handing over the first team managerial reigns to CL was a mistake.

 

What else do people want ?
 

She is currently restructuring the footballing side of the club to ensure that no one person can have as much control as CL had.

 

Give the woman a break and cut her a bit slack.....she’s righting the wrongs and she’s earned the opportunity to do so:without being told to gtf by some angry little pricks on here.

 

 

 

21 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

What absolute crap you come out with. 

 

17 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

This. It’s so obvious who the Budge out crowd is and what their motives are. They’ve just been handed ammunition by the poor team performances unfortunately.

 

16 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

I’m suspicious of people who choose not to see which group has been behind the very personal abuse of Neilson, Levein and Budge. One reason I never joined in the Levein bashing despite agreeing in general he did a bad job after all our injuries is that the bigots used that as cover to ramp up their Budge abuse.

 

12 hours ago, OldGorgie said:

Have you just started watching Hearts? I’ve watched them since the late 1950’s and seen far worse messes made by the clubs previous boards and owners. You should be grateful that AB saved the club, will pass ownership to the fans and still works hard for the club because she’s a Jambo.

 

12 hours ago, Paris 84 said:

 

The war finished in 1945. What a ****in drama queen!! How do you think you’d cope watching us getting beat seven heehaw by Hibs, or relegated with no 15 point deduction against teams like Ayr United. Get a grip you’re  40 FFS, a terrible season for you is dropping points against Hibs at home. Ann Budge, is the best owner this club has ever had, bar none. 

 

11 hours ago, OldGorgie said:

The great and sadly late Wallace Mercer. He took our club back to its rightful position. A great Hearts man.

These posts are bang on! Well said 👏🏼

[Stewart MacD]

👏👏👏

[super_vlad]

Simply No, 

[Forever Hearts]

18 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

JJ had an easier route in 98.

Difference is he won it. 

[Taffin]

15 hours ago, OldGorgie said:

The reason I made that remark was simple. Either you are a Hobo or fail to understand the enormous difficulties in turning a company in administration (bankrupt)  to one where income is going up every year and is profitable. Oh and we have a brand new stand . No other owner achieved that. Your comments about nepotism are Ill conceived and are spiteful.

 

I'm delighted Ann has managed to get Stendel in. I don't know much about him but he represents a new direction and a fresh start. With that in mind the whole club has started afresh for me and everything else is water under the bridge. Let's pull together and be positive.

 

 

Then I read posts like the above and remember why I quite enjoyed being critical...because being a 'hobo' (grow up) or too dumb to see the bigger picture and yet being proven right was quite satisfying.

[Nookie Bear]

18 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

Difference is he won it. 

 

Ssshhh...you're ruining the Levein revisionist vibe

[Taffin]

2 hours ago, Prof said:

Most people use the term bankruptcy instead of liquidation for companies in the UK. Despite that the terms mean the same. 

 

It would be wise to use the correct terminology when talking down to others about their lack of understanding from your soapbox though. Wouldn't you agree?

 

I appreciate it wasn't you who said it btw.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Taffin

[bistokid]

Stendel can change the complexion completely if he has us moving in the right direction quickly.  However, he has a task on his hands. What we can say is that he is the type of appointment the vast majority of fans wanted and he was an ambitious appointment, someone whose stock in England is still on the rise despite his sacking.  She also failed to act to a point of gross negligence so the jury's out.  

 

Regardless, there needs to be a football figurehead that isn't Levein. Depending on the quality of the  sporting director that may improve that and mean Budge could continue in her current role. 

 

 

[Thomaso]

On 08/12/2019 at 15:54, GinRummy said:

Falkirk a harder semi than Inverness. Sure they were top league at the time as well.

And when JJ got us to the Final we beat a Rangers team full of internationalists and some of their greatest ever players.

[Thomaso]

6 hours ago, Forever Hearts said:

Difference is he won it. 

BOOM!! 👍

[Guest ToqueJambo]

7 hours ago, Forever Hearts said:

Difference is he won it. 

 

That wasn't the discussion though. The discussion was the route to the final.

[Adam_the_legend]

9 hours ago, GinRummy said:

 

I just don't get this. I'm the first to criticise her for her mistakes and weirdly there are some on here who think she can do no wrong.

 

The truth is, she's acted in getting rid of Levein and brought in a manager most fans wanted. Like it or not, the business side gives us the opportunity to spend cash on decent players and managers and she's done a great job on that front.

 

Why on earth would we want to get rid of her now? 

 

 

I’m happy with DS too but I think taken as a whole her football decisions have been poor. I’d like to see an experienced football administrator come in as chief exec. Could always keep AB on as chairwoman but day to day ops need someone with a bit more footballing nous. 

[Forever Hearts]

22 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

That wasn't the discussion though. The discussion was the route to the final.

And I added it to the discussion. 

[GinRummy]

20 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

I’m happy with DS too but I think taken as a whole her football decisions have been poor. I’d like to see an experienced football administrator come in as chief exec. Could always keep AB on as chairwoman but day to day ops need someone with a bit more footballing nous. 

Yeah, her footballing decisions have been poor. I think once she gets the SD she won’t have to make many. I’m not desperate to keep her but just feel it’s too late to bother getting rid of her. 

[Adam_the_legend]

Just now, GinRummy said:

Yeah, her footballing decisions have been poor. I think once she gets the SD she won’t have to make many. I’m not desperate to keep her but just feel it’s too late to bother getting rid of her. 

The OP stipulated end of season did they not? It just makes sense time wise, FOH take ownership and bring in their own person. I also feel a bit sorry for her, she should be enjoying her yacht in the med, she’s worked hard for it, rather than having all of the stress that comes with running Hearts. 

[luckydug]

1 hour ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

And when JJ got us to the Final we beat a Rangers team full of internationalists and some of their greatest ever players.

But for Paul Gascoigne we would have won TWO cup finals in a row against one of the strongest Rangers teams in post war Scottish football. 

 

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

The OP stipulated end of season did they not? It just makes sense time wise, FOH take ownership and bring in their own person. I also feel a bit sorry for her, she should be enjoying her yacht in the med, she’s worked hard for it, rather than having all of the stress that comes with running Hearts. 

Aye, maybe. I suppose a part of me is concerned about who might be next. Fear of the unknown a wee bit.

[Beast Boy]

Just now, GinRummy said:

Aye, maybe. I suppose a part of me is concerned about who might be next. Fear of the unknown a wee bit.

Rightly so, too. By changing the set-up to having a sporting director and a manager who are answerable to her and the board, she has made it simpler. Either people perform in their role, or they don’t. That will suit her, as she isn’t reliant on someone controlling everything, and then her being left with the task of potentially getting rid of him for failures wearing one hat, whilst he’s been performing well in his other hat. Good sensible and positive move imo.

 

it means Budge can get in with doing what she has done brilliantly... doubling the size of the business arm of the club.

**** getting rid of her and rolling the dice where we might end up with someone who’s incompetent at the business side of things. Nah... please stay Ann.

 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

Rightly so, too. By changing the set-up to having a sporting director and a manager who are answerable to her and the board, she has made it simpler. Either people perform in their role, or they don’t. That will suit her, as she isn’t reliant on someone controlling everything, and then her being left with the task of potentially getting rid of him for failures wearing one hat, whilst he’s been performing well in his other hat. Good sensible and positive move imo.

 

it means Budge can get in with doing what she has done brilliantly... doubling the size of the business arm of the club.

**** getting rid of her and rolling the dice where we might end up with someone who’s incompetent at the business side of things. Nah... please stay Ann.

 

Pretty much aye. As you’re aware I’ve been critical of her at times but unless there’s a clear option of somebody better I’m in the stay camp.

[Beast Boy]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Pretty much aye. As you’re aware I’ve been critical of her at times but unless there’s a clear option of somebody better I’m in the stay camp.

Exactly. I’ll never be onboard with this idea that you launch someone who has many roles and responsibilities for not doing a great job on one of them, when they are doing a brilliant job with the rest. Totally stupid attitude to take and one that I’m surprised so many Hearts supporters seem to support, considering some of the incompetence we have suffered in the past.

 

Even though football is our business and that is what matters most as a supporter, it’s worth bearing in mind that mistakes and failures at managerial and coaching level don’t tend to threaten our entire existence, whilst incompetence at boardroom level can.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Icon of Symmetry