Annual report and financials

[Footballfirst]

The original Tynecastle Redevelopment funding plan from May 2016

 

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/club-update-from-ann-budge

 

3. Funding plan for stadium redevelopment

I am sure you all want to understand how we are planning to fund this major project. Our estimates of cost are circa £11m. Allowing for some contingency (10%), we are working to a budget of £12m. 

Our funding plan is, in summary, as follows. 

• Financial Reserves from the club: £3m
• Benefactor Contributions:              £2.5m
• Commercial Contributions:            £0.5m
• Total available today:                     £6m

 

At the 2016 AGM the breakdown was:

 

 

This moved on by the 2017 AGM to:

 

.... and at the 2018 AGM to:

 

 

I'm sure we will get a further update at the 2019 AGM on 17th December.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Footballfirst

[luckydug]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

The original budget for  "the stand" was about £9m.

Together with undefined revenue positive "stadium redevelopment" elsewhere in the ground (what are they?) it is now at least £24m.

 

Was it really that low ?

I had it in my head that 11/12 million was the estimate.

It's still quite an increase though.

I'm sure the question will crop up at the AGM and will need answered to everyone's satisfaction. 

It remains as the one big blot on the Budge administration in non football terms imo.

In my view I believe that the original costing was somewhat optimistic while we have spent money on other upgrades thanks to the benefactors donations.

We shall find out next month.

[luckydug]

Sorry didn't see FFs update before I posted.

[Beast Boy]

Received my AGM invite. Never managed to get along to one of these. 17th December. Considering going. Anyone regularly attend?

[Francis Albert]

8 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Was it really that low ?

I had it in my head that 11/12 million was the estimate.

It's still quite an increase though.

I'm sure the question will crop up at the AGM and will need answered to everyone's satisfaction. 

It remains as the one big blot on the Budge administration in non football terms imo.

In my view I believe that the original costing was somewhat optimistic while we have spent money on other upgrades thanks to the benefactors donations.

We shall find out next month.

Sorry I did get the initial cost estimate wrong

 Not 9m but 12m. But doubling is as you say a lot. I think your guess at the reasons are probably most of the explanation but there were obviously some mistakes as well. Not after a witch hunt and some of those involved have long departed the club and the project.

As you say we should find out more next month.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

The original Tynecastle Redevelopment funding plan from May 2016

 

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/club-update-from-ann-budge

 

3. Funding plan for stadium redevelopment

I am sure you all want to understand how we are planning to fund this major project. Our estimates of cost are circa £11m. Allowing for some contingency (10%), we are working to a budget of £12m. 

Our funding plan is, in summary, as follows. 

• Financial Reserves from the club: £3m
• Benefactor Contributions:              £2.5m
• Commercial Contributions:            £0.5m
• Total available today:                     £6m

 

At the 2016 AGM the breakdown was:

 

 

This moved on by the 2017 AGM to:

 

.... and at the 2018 AGM to:

 

 

I'm sure we will get a further update at the 2019 AGM on 17th December.

 

Still cost less than Ollie McBurnie. Bargain!

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

9 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Sorry I did get the initial cost estimate wrong

 Not 9m but 12m. But doubling is as you say a lot. I think your guess at the reasons are probably most of the explanation but there were obviously some mistakes as well. Not after a witch hunt and some of those involved have long departed the club and the project.

As you say we should find out more next month.

 

 

 

 

 

It’s reasonable to scrutinise it though. Our fanbase don’t seem to want to scrutinise anything, which is worrying given the ownership plans

[Beast Boy]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

It’s reasonable to scrutinise it though. Our fanbase don’t seem to want to scrutinise anything, which is worrying given the ownership plans

Disagree. Our fan base want to look for fault in everything and greet and moan relentlessly imo.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

It’s reasonable to scrutinise it though. Our fanbase don’t seem to want to scrutinise anything, which is worrying given the ownership plans

Quite. It's the same with the "I trust FoH" sheep.

 

As for Ann Budge's handling of things, it is completely right to question her handling of footballing decisions, the most important decision making at the club and to scrutinise how money is spent on capital investments. It doesn't mean she hasn't done an excellent job off the park.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

7 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Quite. It's the same with the "I trust FoH" sheep.

 

As for Ann Budge's handling of things, it is completely right to question her handling of footballing decisions, the most important decision making at the club and to scrutinise how money is spent on capital investments. It doesn't mean she hasn't done an excellent job off the park.

 

What is this new shit now FFS? What does that even mean? What have FoH done that means you don't trust them? So far they've done exactly what they are supposed to do.

 

I trust my bank manager but I also keep an eye on my bank account. I trust my mechanic but I also check my car, etc, etc. What a bunch of made-up, ignorant, paranoid nonsense gets posted on here. 

 

It's like Levein has gone. What can I moan and slag folk off about now? Hmm. FoH, yeah they'll do. No reason. Just they'll do. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by ToqueJambo

[Guest ToqueJambo]

11 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

It’s reasonable to scrutinise it though. Our fanbase don’t seem to want to scrutinise anything, which is worrying given the ownership plans

 

Most football fans follow football for the football. Keyword: football.

[Beast Boy]

8 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

What is this new shit now FFS? What does that even mean? What have FoH done that means you don't trust them? So far they've done exactly what they are supposed to do.

 

I trust my bank manager but I also keep an eye on my bank account. I trust my mechanic but I also check my car, etc, etc. What a bunch of made-up, ignorant, paranoid nonsense gets posted on here. 

 

It's like Levein has gone. What can I moan and slag folk off about now? Hmm. FoH, yeah they'll do. No reason. Just they'll do. 

It’s only new on here. It’s been quite the thing on the other forum from pretty much the beginning. Dexter who set it up was (and presumably still is) very anti-FoH. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

9 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Most football fans follow football for the football. Keyword: football.

Most football fans don’t make monthly donations, Einstein. Or buy their club.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

3 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

It’s only new on here. It’s been quite the thing on the other forum from pretty much the beginning. Dexter who set it up was (and presumably still is) very anti-FoH. 

I’m pro FOH, hence donations, but they’ve been too far up budges arse recently 

[Beast Boy]

3 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Most football fans don’t make monthly donations, Einstein. Or buy their club.

Most football fans who do, do it to make sure they can enjoy watching the football. *insert genius’ name here*

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

Most football fans who do, do it to make sure they can enjoy watching the football. *insert genius’ name here*

Quite, hence why the sensible amongst us wanted Levein gone ages ago.

[Beast Boy]

Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Quite, hence why the sensible amongst us wanted Levein gone ages ago.

Easy game to play and win. Almost every manager gets sacked. Wanting to be first to say it is not a sign of insight, it’s just generally miserable types desperate to whine.

[EIEIO]

The new stand may well end up costing double the original estimate. Some cost increases  due to cockups,  some due to changes to the original design. 

Most fans are very happy with the stand ,albeit the 2nd floor is still to be fitted out, and we have built it without saddling ourselves with huge debts like we had during the Mercer, Robinson and Romanov regimes.

Can't see anything to be upset about obviously , it would have been better to be within budget but it's hardly comparable to the Trams.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

22 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Most football fans don’t make monthly donations, Einstein. Or buy their club.

 

How many get the opportunity? I jumped at it so I could continue to watch Hearts play football, not so I could become a forensic accountant.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

42 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

What is this new shit now FFS? What does that even mean? What have FoH done that means you don't trust them? So far they've done exactly what they are supposed to do.

 

I trust my bank manager but I also keep an eye on my bank account. I trust my mechanic but I also check my car, etc, etc. What a bunch of made-up, ignorant, paranoid nonsense gets posted on here. 

 

It's like Levein has gone. What can I moan and slag folk off about now? Hmm. FoH, yeah they'll do. No reason. Just they'll do. 

 

Jesus Christ, you are a radge! I'm talking about those who took absolutely no interest in the FoH Governance proposals or how the boardroom setups would work because "I'm in for life" and "I'm happy to hand my money over" without realising it falls on ALL of us to scrutinise FoH.

[jambopilms]

If we haven't got any debt from the new stand, why does it matter how much it cost ? And we turned a healthy profit. What is there to worry about ? 

 

[Beast Boy]

2 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

If we haven't got any debt from the new stand, why does it matter how much it cost ? And we turned a healthy profit. What is there to worry about ? 

 

It doesn’t. Not unless you are wanting to find criticism in something at any costs.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

7 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

 

Jesus Christ, you are a radge! I'm talking about those who took absolutely no interest in the FoH Governance proposals or how the boardroom setups would work because "I'm in for life" and "I'm happy to hand my money over" without realising it falls on ALL of us to scrutinise FoH.

 

Who are these people? Folk are busy and have priorities. A very small % of people are "committee people" or want to "get involved". It's up to FoH to engage with people well enough to get them involved, and for what it's worth all emails from FoH ended up in my spam folder until I noticed. If they want better engagement they'll need to keep on top of that.

 

Also, many people - I'd say most - contributed money to FoH simply to keep the club alive. I did. They see the club's still alive each day, job done. Got time to look at governance, great. Got no time but happy to give some money each month to something you love, great. Calling folk sheep, not great.

Edited November 18, 2019 by ToqueJambo

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

4 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

If we haven't got any debt from the new stand, why does it matter how much it cost ? And we turned a healthy profit. What is there to worry about ? 

 

Nothing in theory, provided the resources allocated to the stand from the benefactors were only for that purpose. Otherwise, that is a lot of waste that could have been better used, in theory.

[XB52]

2 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Nothing in theory, provided the resources allocated to the stand from the benefactors were only for that purpose. Otherwise, that is a lot of waste that could have been better used, in theory.

As was stated before, the benefactors were approached to help with the new stand and he/she/they contributed for the stand.

[Jambo-Fox]

I’ve never been to an AGM and don’t intend to start now .... my vote(s) will be cast in advance!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, XB52 said:

As was stated before, the benefactors were approached to help with the new stand and he/she/they contributed for the stand.

Quite. Who's arguing?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, XB52 said:

As was stated before, the benefactors were approached to help with the new stand and he/she/they contributed for the stand.

 

I wish we could just say "loaded Jambos" instead of benefactors. Seems more accurate. They're not doing it for business or charity reasons after all.

[Beast Boy]

We have wasted the benefactor contributions that could have bought players. Damn you Budge! I wish you’d never come onboard and saved us, if you hadn’t been here think of all that benefactor money we would have had to spend on the first team.  

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Who are these people? Folk are busy and have priorities. A very small % of people are "committee people" or want to "get involved". It's up to FoH to engage with people well enough to get them involved, and for what it's worth all emails from FoH ended up in my spam folder until I noticed. If they want better engagement they'll need to keep on top of that.

 

Also, many people - I'd say most - contributed money to FoH simply to keep the club alive. I did. They see the club's still alive each day, job done. Got time to look at governance, great. Got no time but happy to give some money each month to something you love, great. Calling folk sheep, not great.

I'm sorry you took offence at being called a "sheep" but you should be relieved that those who were not sheep called bullshit on the original proposals.

[Beast Boy]

4 minutes ago, XB52 said:

As was stated before, the benefactors were approached to help with the new stand and he/she/they contributed for the stand.

But think about what we could have done with the money they specifically donated to the stand project?  

[Guest ToqueJambo]

12 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I'm sorry you took offence at being called a "sheep" but you should be relieved that those who were not sheep called bullshit on the original proposals.

 

I took part in the discussion and emailed FoH about the proposals and was happy with the changes. Specifically I wanted lapsed members to have some voting rights. I was quite active on the thread discussing it. I tried to be constructive instead of abusing people though. You should give it a go!

Edited November 18, 2019 by ToqueJambo

[Jambo-Fox]

51 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I wish we could just say "loaded Jambos" instead of benefactors. Seems more accurate. They're not doing it for business or charity reasons after all.

Why?

 

They might not actually be ‘loaded’, rather just spending what they can on Hearts!

 

 

One could say that members of the FoH are loaded, I’m more inclined to believe they are just spending what

they can on Hearts!

Edited November 18, 2019 by Jambo-Fox

[Guest ToqueJambo]

20 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Just bear in mind that when you mention "abusive", it wasn't me who jumped in with both feet asking "what is this shit?".

 

Pretty normal reaction to someone trying to find fault with something as good and successful as FoH.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Pretty normal reaction to someone trying to find fault with something as good and successful as FoH.

 

There are many faults with FoH as, shock horror, nothing is perfect in life. Despite these, the good outweighs the bad by a significant margin.

[XB52]

1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Quite. Who's arguing?

You. You said the money could have been used for other things, I just pointed the fact that the money was solely for use in the stand. Quite simple really

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

42 minutes ago, XB52 said:

You. You said the money could have been used for other things, I just pointed the fact that the money was solely for use in the stand. Quite simple really

Actually, I didn't. Perhaps you should read it again.

 

 

[scott herbertson]

Pretty amazing that we have a thread with people being highly critical of the management of our business when we have just announced a huge profit while over at Easter road they are quite happy that their AGM is mysteriously delayed, possibly until January. Imagine if the delay was ours what people would be saying on here!

[Sid]

We have unbelievable facilities for a club dying when she took it over.
we owe it all to Ann

So what if we paid over the odds for the taps. 
she (and benefactors) fricken paid for them. Not me or you. 
If FOC did it 

1.  It would not have happened. It was a capital sum up front needed to save us and No-one came forward with the cash. 
2. We would have been £22m in debt coming out of the back of it. What’s our debt come May? 
WTF are you all moaning about. 

 

[Francis Albert]

19 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

Pretty amazing that we have a thread with people being highly critical of the management of our business when we have just announced a huge profit while over at Easter road they are quite happy that their AGM is mysteriously delayed, possibly until January. Imagine if the delay was ours what people would be saying on here!

Huge profit? Missed that.

Hope Hibs are in deepest shit but I don't see why that should prevent reasonable scrutiny of our finances. I don't see many if any being "highly critical".

[Beast Boy]

24 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

Pretty amazing that we have a thread with people being highly critical of the management of our business when we have just announced a huge profit while over at Easter road they are quite happy that their AGM is mysteriously delayed, possibly until January. Imagine if the delay was ours what people would be saying on here!

We would have people claiming she was “killing our club”, “stealing their club”, someone who “knows nothing about football”, a “greedy granny”, and overseeing a “shambles”.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

30 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Huge profit? Missed that.

Hope Hibs are in deepest shit but I don't see why that should prevent reasonable scrutiny of our finances. I don't see many if any being "highly critical".

This

[Beast Boy]

Dearie me...

[JamboAl]

3 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Who are these people? Folk are busy and have priorities. A very small % of people are "committee people" or want to "get involved". It's up to FoH to engage with people well enough to get them involved, and for what it's worth all emails from FoH ended up in my spam folder until I noticed. If they want better engagement they'll need to keep on top of that.

 

Also, many people - I'd say most - contributed money to FoH simply to keep the club alive. I did. They see the club's still alive each day, job done. Got time to look at governance, great. Got no time but happy to give some money each month to something you love, great. Calling folk sheep, not great.

You are quite right Torque but in addition some people are aware of their limitations.  Without meaning to disrespect anyone, there are many who simply don't understand the machinations of organisations like FoH and are quite happy to pay their money and leave it to others who do understand.  IMO it is commendable that they "do their bit" by financial contribution and put their trust in others to do a good job.

[Coburg Hearts]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

You are quite right Torque but in addition some people are aware of their limitations.  Without meaning to disrespect anyone, there are many who simply don't understand the machinations of organisations like FoH and are quite happy to pay their money and leave it to others who do understand.  IMO it is commendable that they "do their bit" by financial contribution and put their trust in others to do a good job.

You can count me in as one of those who is happy to donate and leave the governance  stuff to those who have the knowledge of such things.

You might pull the wool over my eyes but I'm definitely not a sheep.

[Marooned Abroad]

8 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Who are these people? Folk are busy and have priorities. A very small % of people are "committee people" or want to "get involved". It's up to FoH to engage with people well enough to get them involved, and for what it's worth all emails from FoH ended up in my spam folder until I noticed. If they want better engagement they'll need to keep on top of that.

 

Also, many people - I'd say most - contributed money to FoH simply to keep the club alive. I did. They see the club's still alive each day, job done. Got time to look at governance, great. Got no time but happy to give some money each month to something you love, great. Calling folk sheep, not great.

Well said, sir! My view entirely.

[XB52]

8 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Actually, I didn't. Perhaps you should read it again.

You said

Nothing in theory, provided the resources allocated to the stand from the benefactors were only for that purpose. Otherwise, that is a lot of waste that could have been better used, in theory.

 

So I pointed out there was no waste as the money was supplied solely for the stand. For some strange reason you are trying to stir the shit on FOH and our benefactors. No idea why but you carry on if it makes you feel better

[GinRummy]

8 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Huge profit? Missed that.

Hope Hibs are in deepest shit but I don't see why that should prevent reasonable scrutiny of our finances. I don't see many if any being "highly critical".

 

Maybe not a huge profit but surely all a football club looks for is a small(ish) profit. If we were sitting on huge profits everyone would be screaming for more investment in players which would then reduce the profit anyway.

[Marooned Abroad]

Dear Member Update on election of directors On 18 October, the board invited eligible members of the Foundation to come forward as candidates for election as directors. The period for nomination of candidates closed on 8 November, and we can advise that no candidates came forward. In those circumstances, there will be no election contest in the lead-up to the AGM.  Resolutions to re-appoint the two current directors who are retiring by rotation – Stuart Wallace and Alastair Bruce – will be proposed at the meeting. The AGM will take place in the Gorgie Suite on 17 December at 6pm, and the formal papers will be issued later this month.  They will include a proxy form, so that members who are unable to attend the meeting in person can still vote on the resolutions.

Copyright © 2019 Foundation of Hearts. All rights reserved. Our mailing address is: Foundation of Hearts Limited, c/o Heart of Midlothian Football Club, Tynecastle Park, Gorgie Road, EDINBURGH   TO ALL THE WHINGERS ON THIS THREAD   YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE TO STAND UP AND BE COUNTED.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, XB52 said:

You said

Nothing in theory, provided the resources allocated to the stand from the benefactors were only for that purpose. Otherwise, that is a lot of waste that could have been better used, in theory.

 

So I pointed out there was no waste as the money was supplied solely for the stand. For some strange reason you are trying to stir the shit on FOH and our benefactors. No idea why but you carry on if it makes you feel better

You obviously have a comprehension issue. I made no claims on why the benefactors contributed, which is why I wrote my post the way I did. No shit stirring here but keep looking for imaginary opponents to fight.