GinRummy Posted November 17, 2019 Just now, OldGorgie said: I’m just saying that Naismith himself puts country before club and rightly so. A few to**ers may disagree with that by Naismith thinks otherwise. Most hearts fans I know put us before Scotland I wouldn’t call them, you or Naisy names regardless of what you thought on the subject. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldGorgie Posted November 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, GinRummy said: Most hearts fans I know put us before Scotland I wouldn’t call them, you or Naisy names regardless of what you thought on the subject. You are missing the point. Virtually all players regard playing for their country far more important than their club. Playing for a club is a job. Playing for your country is an honour. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soonbe110 Posted November 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, OldGorgie said: And which league is different. There’s more foreigners in the English leagues than you can shake a stick at but their national team is doing ok because of careful planning and fan support. The problem in Scotland is there are far to many “up to their knees loyalists “. Fair enough but I disagree. Lot more young English guys playing in top two leagues in England than Scotish players in top league up here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldGorgie Posted November 17, 2019 Just now, soonbe110 said: Fair enough but I disagree. Lot more young English guys playing in top two leagues in England than Scotish players in top league up here. Let’s have some stats to back up your view Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GinRummy Posted November 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, OldGorgie said: You are missing the point. Virtually all players regard playing for their country far more important than their club. Playing for a club is a job. Playing for your country is an honour. I doubt that’s true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Riccarton3 Posted November 17, 2019 I wasn't that keen on the narrative suggesting his choice of Hearts was now seen as a wise one now he's made it to 50 caps. You'd like to think the club had more to offer than just guaranteeing his presence on the pitch when fit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weehammy Posted November 17, 2019 18 hours ago, FarmerTweedy said: Firstly, we don't raise less in tax per capita, and secondly, lots of people from Edinburgh, and elsewhere in Scotland outside of Glasgow and Dundee, want Scotland to cease being part of the UK. For the umpteenth time p**s off to the shed with this stuff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smithee Posted November 17, 2019 41 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: Fair enough but I disagree. Lot more young English guys playing in top two leagues in England than Scotish players in top league up here. There's 44 teams with money to put into their squads in the top two leagues in England to be fair though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coburg Hearts Posted November 17, 2019 9 hours ago, XB52 said: Ask the loony unionists. They see red at any mention of Scotland. Wish they would keep their bile to the shed Nice to know that in an all inclusive iScotland I would be regarded as a loony. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soonbe110 Posted November 17, 2019 23 minutes ago, Smithee said: There's 44 teams with money to put into their squads in the top two leagues in England to be fair though. Agreed, money has a lot to do with it but that’s the reality. Excluding the OF our other top league teams would probably be lower half of Championship at best, probably lower. The task of finding a national team with any chance of getting to finals in a regular basis with largely that level of player is a big ask. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldGorgie Posted November 17, 2019 21 minutes ago, Coburg Hearts said: Nice to know that in an all inclusive iScotland I would be regarded as a loony. Live with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coburg Hearts Posted November 17, 2019 Just now, OldGorgie said: Live with it. Thanks for that. Now I kinda know how the jews felt in pre-war Germany. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldGorgie Posted November 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: Agreed, money has a lot to do with it but that’s the reality. Excluding the OF our other top league teams would probably be lower half of Championship at best, probably lower. The task of finding a national team with any chance of getting to finals in a regular basis with largely that level of player is a big ask. Without the huge amount of money English football gets from Sky England would be a backwater in terms of football. As it was before Sky came along. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramrod Posted November 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Coburg Hearts said: Thanks for that. Now I kinda know how the jews felt in pre-war Germany. Ffs seriously? Have a word , drama queen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soonbe110 Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, OldGorgie said: Let’s have some stats to back up your view Just compare the current England and Scotland squads in terms of numbers and quality playing in their top leagues. England’s entire team today are pretty much regulars in the best league in the world. We had one in our team yesterday. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GinRummy Posted November 17, 2019 Just now, OldGorgie said: Without the huge amount of money English football gets from Sky England would be a backwater in terms of football. As it was before Sky came along. Didn’t Liverpool, Forrest and Ipswich win European trophies before Sky. They weren’t a backwater before Sky at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upgotheheads Posted November 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: Agreed, money has a lot to do with it but that’s the reality. Excluding the OF our other top league teams would probably be lower half of Championship at best, probably lower. The task of finding a national team with any chance of getting to finals in a regular basis with largely that level of player is a big ask. Don't exclude the OF from that calculation. There are huge clubs in England who struggle to get above that level. 1 minute ago, Coburg Hearts said: Thanks for that. Now I kinda know how the jews felt in pre-war Germany. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soonbe110 Posted November 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, OldGorgie said: Without the huge amount of money English football gets from Sky England would be a backwater in terms of football. As it was before Sky came along. Agreed, but it isn’t. And I doubt that the money situation will change significantly in our lifetimes. I think the real point in the debate is that Scotland teams until the start of this century over-achieved significantly considering population, funding, facilities etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldGorgie Posted November 17, 2019 Just now, Coburg Hearts said: Thanks for that. Now I kinda know how the jews felt in pre-war Germany. What a pathetic and deranged comment. Nobody is suggesting you have to wear badges showing you are a unionist, or placing you in a Ghetto or concentration camp. I never cease to be amazed at the absolute drivel that comes from Unionists when they are put on the spot. What next only Kaflicks vote Labour? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alwaysthereinspirit Posted November 17, 2019 Iceland has a population less than Edinburgh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldGorgie Posted November 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: Just compare the current England and Scotland squads in terms of numbers and quality playing in their top leagues. England’s entire team today are pretty much regulars in the best league in the world. We had one in our team yesterday. I asked for stats not anecdotes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soonbe110 Posted November 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, OldGorgie said: Without the huge amount of money English football gets from Sky England would be a backwater in terms of football. As it was before Sky came along. Did we have Sky in 1966? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramrod Posted November 17, 2019 Wonder if Naisy might retire from the international scene after the play offs now he's in the hall of fame . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mikey1874 Posted November 17, 2019 Shankland replaced by Brophy. Naismith could start v Kazakhstan. Especially if Clarke sees him as a key player. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upgotheheads Posted November 17, 2019 Just now, Mikey1874 said: Shankland replaced by Brophy. Naismith could start v Kazakhstan. Especially if Clarke sees him as a key player. I'm sure he does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soonbe110 Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, OldGorgie said: I asked for stats not anecdotes I’m not going to waste my time based on your other comments. It’s as clear as the nose on your face. Fact - today 11 England starters play regularly in best league in world, only 1 Scotland starter yesterday good enough to play regularly in that league. Says it all in terms of the gulf. Edited November 17, 2019 by soonbe110 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BarneyBattles Posted November 17, 2019 1 minute ago, soonbe110 said: Agreed, but it isn’t. And I doubt that the money situation will change significantly in our lifetimes. I think the real point in the debate is that Scotland teams until the start of this century over-achieved significantly considering population, funding, facilities etc. We qualified because the pool of players we had to choose from was much better. Think about the mid 80s. For strikers alone we could choose from Nicholas, mccoist, Robbo, Johnston, McClair, Dodds, Archibald (a bit earlier admittedly) and probably more I’ve forgotten about. Our centre halves were genuinely world class (Hansen, Miller, and date I say it CL could have been too) and we had an abundance of talent on the wings, at full back and in midfield. Goram whether you like him or not was world class too. All these players, and hundreds more did nothing but kick a ball as kids, as did everyone else. They weren’t coached, they learned the game by themselves by playing it constantly as kids, that’s why we had so many good players for such a small country, there was **** all else to do! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Gio Posted November 17, 2019 Vote Naismith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcjambo Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) Is Naismith injured? Edited November 17, 2019 by tcjambo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soonbe110 Posted November 17, 2019 2 hours ago, OldGorgie said: And which league is different. There’s more foreigners in the English leagues than you can shake a stick at but their national team is doing ok because of careful planning and fan support. The problem in Scotland is there are far to many “up to their knees loyalists “. Could be, but I think the real issue is that kids don’t play football anymore, at least not as many kids as in the past, and as a result the population numbers play out more strongly. The English national team is doing really well because of clubs academies, loan system and the fact that they now have EPL managers that are willing to give young players a chance eg Klopp, Guardiola, Lampard, Emery, Olle, whereas in the past the Allardyces, etc only wanted to play experienced pro’s im not sure what role ‘up to their knees loyalists’ play in the Scottish football demise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barack Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) Riiiight. "Personal circumstances." Hope Naismith's suffering the same thing on Tuesday... (Think I got away with that...) Edited November 17, 2019 by Barack Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soonbe110 Posted November 17, 2019 53 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said: We qualified because the pool of players we had to choose from was much better. Think about the mid 80s. For strikers alone we could choose from Nicholas, mccoist, Robbo, Johnston, McClair, Dodds, Archibald (a bit earlier admittedly) and probably more I’ve forgotten about. Our centre halves were genuinely world class (Hansen, Miller, and date I say it CL could have been too) and we had an abundance of talent on the wings, at full back and in midfield. Goram whether you like him or not was world class too. All these players, and hundreds more did nothing but kick a ball as kids, as did everyone else. They weren’t coached, they learned the game by themselves by playing it constantly as kids, that’s why we had so many good players for such a small country, there was **** all else to do! Exactly. We over -achieved. Significantly more world class players than we should have had. Every boy was in the park after school playing football. Today they are practically empty. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Weakened Offender Posted November 17, 2019 40 minutes ago, tcjambo said: Virtually no-one in Scotland speaks anything but English as their first language. Are you sure about that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mikey1874 Posted November 17, 2019 38 minutes ago, tcjambo said: Is Naismith injured? No Shankland is injured Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick witter Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, OldGorgie said: No but England had home advantage and a dodgy ref and linesman. Remember what Baxter, Law did to them in 67,. What have they done since then. They got to the World Cup semi final FFS!! They have just romped their qualifying group with a +30 odd goal difference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lfhearts Posted November 17, 2019 Did Naisy tell you he was not injured or is it another Mikey assumption? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramrod Posted November 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, rick witter said: They got to the World Cup semi final FFS!! They have just romped their qualifying group with a +30 odd goal difference. Thinking of backing them to win next years Euros , they look impressive tbf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barack Posted November 17, 2019 1 minute ago, ramrod said: Thinking of backing them to win next years Euros , they look impressive tbf Their defensive 3rd is dog's dirt. Even their media admit that much. Save your money, ramathorne. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick witter Posted November 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, ramrod said: Thinking of backing them to win next years Euros , they look impressive tbf I agree I think they are fantastic to watch. Obviously they will come up against better sides but I think the will make at least the semis of the euros and have a great chance of winning it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beast Boy Posted November 17, 2019 Thankfully there are better teams out there, so I don’t worry about England winning anything. France and Belgium are too good for them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramrod Posted November 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Barack said: Their defensive 3rd is dog's dirt. Even their media admit that much. Save your money, ramathorne. True that and the mental side of things always seems to be a problem, Belgium could be a decent shout @7's Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barack Posted November 17, 2019 Just now, ramrod said: True that and the mental side of things always seems to be a problem, Belgium could be a decent shout @7's Belgium are 7's? With who? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramrod Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Barack said: Belgium are 7's? With who? Betway, Bet 888 and Skybet plenty of 13/2 around including my app Wm Hill Edited November 17, 2019 by ramrod Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soonbe110 Posted November 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, Barack said: Their defensive 3rd is dog's dirt. Even their media admit that much. Save your money, ramathorne. If they find a defence before next summer they will skoosh it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cosanostra Posted November 18, 2019 No more spamming this thread or any other on the Terrace with political debate please. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
busby1985 Posted November 18, 2019 Hearts over Scotland, all the time, every time. That shouldn’t even be a debate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldGorgie Posted November 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, busby1985 said: Hearts over Scotland, all the time, every time. That shouldn’t even be a debate. Fairly obvious that the players who get picked from Hearts don’t take that view. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Independence Posted November 18, 2019 17 hours ago, OldGorgie said: I’m just saying that Naismith himself puts country before club and rightly so. A few to**ers may disagree with that but Naismith thinks otherwise. He doesn't though. Both are intertwined. The club pays the wages, playing for your country brings the icing. Too many people 'overthinking' this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Independence Posted November 18, 2019 22 minutes ago, busby1985 said: Hearts over Scotland, all the time, every time. That shouldn’t even be a debate. Deary me. As I have previously stated both are intertwined. Why is this so hard for people to understand? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldGorgie Posted November 18, 2019 36 minutes ago, Independence said: Deary me. As I have previously stated both are intertwined. Why is this so hard for people to understand? Because the “ up to their knees lot” are incapable of rational thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
