To the Levein haters: Is there anything he could do to change your mind?

[Forever Hearts]

Just now, 1874robbo said:

The same question could really be asked to the Levein supporters.

is there anything that would make you change your mind as I see a lot of blind loyalty purely because of his hearts connection.

if he was a foreign manager he’d have been emptied long ago.

Great point. 

[Drumjambo]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

I think some folk will just hate him & that’ll be that. Most however will be satisfied if we start winning, climb the table and stop losing to dross (especially at home). Putting up a decent fight in Glasgow instead of capitulating and trying to “contain” them & getting to the cup semis/finals would also help his case. 

Top 4 should be almost expected for a club of our size & resource. 

 

 

 

 

 

Tell that to Man Utd 900 Million since fergie left and they drew wi Rochdale the other night.

 

No quarter given in football Maximum effort is all i want to see and ill be happy win lose or draw.

 

My opinion for what it worth last two games have been choc full of desire and dying for the badge some 50/50s the other night wi smith and whelan were "burst baw " stuff - Keep that going and we'll climb the table !! 

 

An no I don't hate and never will hate Hearts legends..........only trying to do the best for their club !!

[mitch41]

11 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

The same question could really be asked to the Levein supporters.

is there anything that would make you change your mind as I see a lot of blind loyalty purely because of his hearts connection.

if he was a foreign manager he’d have been emptied long ago.

If Jock Stein, Alex Ferguson, Walter Smith or Pepe & Jurgen had Leveins record at Hearts they 

would of been sacked long long ago. When you realise (which few don't) that Levein is out of 

his depth and he is a useless manager he has to be sacked. 

[Cruyff Turn]

18 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

Nonsense. What reason would they have to hate him if he delivered success for Hearts? 

Nonsense, really? You missed a post stating just the very thing yesterday. 

[David McCaig]

I want to see Levein stop tinkering and stop over-thinking things.

 

If 4231 is the formation that works for us, stick to it, the constant in-game tinkering between a back 3 and a back 4 is a major contributor to our defensive fallibility.

 

Once we have a formation that works, pick a team and stick to it, its madness to keep making 4 or 5 changes from game to game.

 

Levein's major problem is trying to be a smart-arse.  Just keep things simple, we have the third best squad in the country.

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Jesus, it’s “give him until Christmas” time again.

[luckydug]

35 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Plenty Levein haters on KB. Levein could win a trophy & 3rd this season and they’d hate him. 

 

For some it’s personal. For most folk it’s just about poor form and if things turnaround they’ll get back on board. 

It's definitely personal with some.

I'm guessing it goes back to his first stint when he distanced himself from the fans protests over Murrayfield by saying he wanted to concentrate on the team and said the off field matters were a distraction. 

Then him leaving for a higher paid job was turned into 'leaving us in the lurch' by some.

[Forever Hearts]

10 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Nonsense, really? You missed a post stating just the very thing yesterday. 

Again, what reason would a Hearts supporter have to hate CL if he delivered a trophy and 3rd place for Hearts?

[Cruyff Turn]

Just now, luckydug said:

It's definitely personal with some.

I'm guessing it goes back to his first stint when he distanced himself from the fans protests over Murrayfield by saying he wanted to concentrate on the team and said the off field matters were a distraction. 

Then him leaving for a higher paid job was turned into 'leaving us in the lurch' by some.

Add in 1986 at Dundee and him apparently “bottling it” and I think we’ve got a full house.

[spirt of 98]

3 hours ago, Jambos_1874 said:

As the title says. Is there no way back for him in your mind or could he yet redeem himself. I'm talking about realistically i.e. a Scottish Cup win and a European position, not winning the Champions League.

 

I'm still on the fence on whether he can turn it around but given recent results I'd give him until Christmas. Glad to see our owner isn't in the habit of hiring and firing.

Do what is expected. Finish in top 4 playing entertaining football. Anything else is a fail.  

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 hours ago, Mort said:

I think the most concerning part of all this, is the amount of power he holds at the club. I would like to see him step down from the board of directors and as director of football and concentrate solely on management of first team matters. I don’t believe we need a director of football at a club our size. If the academy need more support then surely we can employ someone in a role to assist.

Yes, I agree. He does indeed wield far too much power at the club and that is what concerns most of us. Some of his post match comments betray someone who knows his job is the safest in world football..."we'll get over this mini slump"..for example. Other snidey comments about fans would not be made by someone who operates under clear lines of demarcation and governance.  Results will dictate his future as Head Coach but AB needs to sort out the governance of the club by either bringing in a CEO or a Director of Football who Levein reports to. We needs to see that he is accountable not just hear it from AB.

[Bauldrick]

Craig could easily change my mind by keeping the winning momentum going also by getting his team to be a bit more combative when playing the old firm in Glasgow, by ceasing to sign haddies  and injury prone players, by getting rid of whoever it is who has talent-spotted the aforementioned haddies and by making Tynecastle once again a place that opponents dread coming to.

[Cruyff Turn]

Just now, Forever Hearts said:

Again, what reason would a Hearts supporter have to hate CL if he delivered a trophy and 3rd place for Hearts?

You tell me? Clearly that’s bonkers but for some, apparently not. Some folk just hate Craig Levein that much.

[rick witter]

3 hours ago, bistokid said:

Haters is such a nonsense statement. 

 

We are 8th in the league. 

He's finished 6th the last 2 seasons. 

The standard of football has been dire for almost 3 years now. 

 

Football fans everywhere want success, achievement in relation to what there teams potential allows. He's not even achieving par nevermind doing what a successful manager does which is get more from his team than he has a right to. 

 

He's been treated in some respects better than previous failed hearts managers. Beyond the fits of frustration where folk sound like it's personal, I very much doubt the vast majority that want him to leave hate him. 

 

To your last point, hires and fires suggests impulsive and rash decision making. It's going on 2.5 years of underachievement. How could that have been perceived as hire and fire? 

This post explains it all perfectly. 

Levein is an underachiever and has been doing it for 2 and a half years. He has had his chance now let’s get someone else to take us forward. 

[oh ah grantona]

3 hours ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Win the League cup 

Where I'm at going on a run that would secure 3rd place keep us in form and winning a trophy 

 

I felt we played well on Wednesday but after the first 10mins or so we didn't really hurt Aberdeen and we got desperate and got a bit of luck 

 

He needs to keep getting results simple as that 

[letsalldothebeattie]

A domestic treble

 

 

in all seriousness. Winning games, climbing the table and at least 1 more final with a cup victory at the end of it

Edited September 27, 2019 by letsalldothebeattie

[Jamhammer]

4 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

I think some folk will just hate him & that’ll be that. Most however will be satisfied if we start winning, climb the table and stop losing to dross (especially at home). Putting up a decent fight in Glasgow instead of capitulating and trying to “contain” them & getting to the cup semis/finals would also help his case. 

Top 4 should be almost expected for a club of our size & resource. 

 

 

 

 

I’m in this gang

[amadjambo]

4 hours ago, Jambos_1874 said:

As the title says. Is there no way back for him in your mind or could he yet redeem himself. I'm talking about realistically i.e. a Scottish Cup win and a European position, not winning the Champions League.

 

I'm still on the fence on whether he can turn it around but given recent results I'd give him until Christmas. Glad to see our owner isn't in the habit of hiring and firing.

Win the League Cup, get us to climb up the league and compete for 3rd, get to Hampden again in the Scottish Cup, and stop playing a back 3.

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, Drumjambo said:

 

Tell that to Man Utd 900 Million since fergie left and they drew wi Rochdale the other night.

 

No quarter given in football Maximum effort is all i want to see and ill be happy win lose or draw.

 

My opinion for what it worth last two games have been choc full of desire and dying for the badge some 50/50s the other night wi smith and whelan were "burst baw " stuff - Keep that going and we'll climb the table !! 

 

An no I don't hate and never will hate Hearts legends..........only trying to do the best for their club !!

Cant really compare our situation with the richest club on the planet though.

 

I said to my mate at 2-1 to Aberdeen at 90 mins that although I'm not happy to lose, I'm happy with the effort and some good football was played.

 

I agree, that level of effort will have us going up the table. 

 

Fannying about at the Glasgow clubs when we should be in their faces is what pisses folk off. Containing them and losing 3 zip is worse than having a real go at them and losing 3 zip. Our record through there is abysmal. 

[CloustonHMFC]

Keep getting results and most will happy. There will forever be a section of our support who blindly hate him though.  

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, bighalders said:

I'm not a levein hater. Totally respect the guy. Great player too.  Not good enough to be a Hearts manager though as borne out by our 6th  6th in last two previous seasons so there is nothing he should be able to do going forward as he should not be at the club

You don't need to answer the question then - it was addressed to Levein haters.

[Debut 4]

4 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

You don't need to answer the question then - it was addressed to Levein haters.

Hard to tell if it’s a generalisation also aimed at people who thought he’d had his time and should step down, but I appreciate the Op was maybe being more specific in his target. 

[loveofthegame]

I don't "hate" Craig Levein. Quite the opposite. I'm sorry if not being happy with our appalling form in the last year doesn't sit well with the OP.

 

And the answer to the question is so bleeding obvious it doesn't really need said - WIN MORE GAMES OF FOOTBALL.

[JamboAl]

3 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Hard to tell if it’s a generalisation also aimed at people who thought he’d had his time and should step down, but I appreciate the Op was maybe being more specific in his target. 

It was specific.

[Debut 4]

Just now, JamboAl said:

It was specific.

Thanks for clarifying. 

[JamboAl]

1 minute ago, loveofthegame said:

I don't "hate" Craig Levein. Quite the opposite. I'm sorry if not being happy with our appalling form in the last year doesn't sit well with the OP.

 

And the answer to the question is so bleeding obvious it doesn't really need said - WIN MORE GAMES OF FOOTBALL.

But he didn't ask about the appalling form and haters was not in quotation marks.

[Armageddon]

3 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

“Haters” is not the right word to use 

 

To be fair to the OP its a term that's been banded about for a very long time on here.

 

Hearts legend, I really like him and would rather be with him than without him ... i do wonder if it's Stockholm syndrome though!

[Jodami]

The haters language is the kind of nonsense the government is spouting just now, the polarisation of discussion cheapens it immensely. If there are so many haters why have the support been so patient, the protest and fans booing have been in the wake of incredibly poor performances and results. Our fans are actually particularly supportive but many are understandably unhappy. The last two games the team has shown spirit and fight but any indication of better football is confined to the first half against Aberdeen.

 

I don't see any way back for him and it's the last year of Levein's contract as manager so we should be identifying potential successors just now. The poor performance of the team rules out any internal applicants which means we should be doing our homework on how much the preferred candidates will cost and how likely they are to take the job. A rethink of the top of the structure on the footballing side should also be considered. I can understand if we struggled on with him this season as the club is close to being transferred to us and expensive changes could have an impact on this. The most important thing is getting the next appointment right and fully backing the new management team. This may be next season but it is inevitable it will happen.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Jodami

[jock _turd]

See I am not a CL hater, far from, it but I have had to question what he is doing regarding the football department. It has been good to see a couple of wins under the belt football is such a confidence based game that these wins can only be good for that aspect of the players performance. I still remain to be convinced that in some was we have become a good team though our general play is still humpty. If we could go on a run of say seven or eight wins from ten games I would say we have turned a corner. However I just do not think that is going to happen I think the rest of the season is going to be one long struggle.

Edited September 27, 2019 by jock _turd

[DalryJambo]

2 hours ago, Forever Hearts said:

Great point. 

 

I’m a CL supporter, but for me the next 6 months is crunch time.  He now has his own squad and the quality/depth is there. I think the team needs time to gel, but if it’s still bad through December/January then I think he’s had a fair crack at it and if he’s not delivering then it’s time to part company.

[davie1980]

Not a Levein hater, been as patient as pretty much any fan.

I only reached the point I suggested he should go a couple weeks back when we officially sat bottom of the league after a year of consistently dismal performance.

 

Winning at Easter road and beating the 3rd best team in the league to progress in the cup is a vast improvement in form but it is simply two results. If I am going to revise my opinion that he is no longer the right man for the job he simply needs to maintain the improved form.

 

I'm sure I saw a table that had us bottom of the league, when you accounted for the last years results.

We had 2 points after 5 games. That is nowhere near good enough.

 

We have 5 points from 6 games, that still isn't good enough, we should be taking roughly double that on average. You just have to look at Motherwell on 10 points and 4th place to see what we should be doing. If we can start collecting results at that kind of rate, we'll climb the table and be in competition for 3rd/4th by the end of the season.

I don't expect to get past Rangers in the LC or beat Celtic in the final so any progress there would go a long way to restoring faith.

 

It's that simple, get better results. A lot of people talk about where a club like Hearts should be. But sometimes you are up and sometimes you're down. What isn't acceptable is when we have actually invested in the squad, had a stable management team for a couple years and have a playing side which on paper is as good as any outwith the OF. That team should not be bottom half.

 

We will get Souttar, Haring, Naismith and Walker back fairly soon. There can't be anymore excuses, that team should be challenging Aberdeen.

 

[FruitJuice]

59 minutes ago, DarioHMFC said:

Keep getting results and most will happy. There will forever be a section of our support who blindly hate him though.  

Why would fans blindly hate him? Hating how the team have been performing for three years isn't the same as hating him.  So why would fans blindly hate him? It's an accusation without any foundation.  I couldn't give a shite what he does in his private life, only concerned about how the teams doing.  Do you think if we were winning things or doing relatively well, some fans would still want him sacked.  This hating accusations no longer works  

[CloustonHMFC]

4 minutes ago, FruitJuice said:

Why would fans blindly hate him? Hating how the team have been performing for three years isn't the same as hating him.  So why would fans blindly hate him? It's an accusation without any foundation.  I couldn't give a shite what he does in his private life, only concerned about how the teams doing.  Do you think if we were winning things or doing relatively well, some fans would still want him sacked.  This hating accusations no longer works  

I take it you’re not on social media then? There is, 100%, fans who do hate Levein and would continue to do so regardless as to where we are. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

4 hours ago, cosanostra said:

Unless he wins a trophy or finishes 3rd or above, he must go.

He's had enough chances and there have been enough excuses for our awful football and poor league form.

 

This

[FruitJuice]

22 minutes ago, DarioHMFC said:

I take it you’re not on social media then? There is, 100%, fans who do hate Levein and would continue to do so regardless as to where we are. 

Have they said they hate him or just hating how the team are doing?  What reasons have they given? There is no way anyone would want him gone if we were doing well.  That includes those you claim who just hate him.  I'd like to see examples of these social media posts that hate him for non football reasons. 

[JamboAl]

47 minutes ago, davie1980 said:

Not a Levein hater, been as patient as pretty much any fan.

I only reached the point I suggested he should go a couple weeks back when we officially sat bottom of the league after a year of consistently dismal performance.

 

Winning at Easter road and beating the 3rd best team in the league to progress in the cup is a vast improvement in form but it is simply two results. If I am going to revise my opinion that he is no longer the right man for the job he simply needs to maintain the improved form.

 

I'm sure I saw a table that had us bottom of the league, when you accounted for the last years results.

We had 2 points after 5 games. That is nowhere near good enough.

 

We have 5 points from 6 games, that still isn't good enough, we should be taking roughly double that on average. You just have to look at Motherwell on 10 points and 4th place to see what we should be doing. If we can start collecting results at that kind of rate, we'll climb the table and be in competition for 3rd/4th by the end of the season.

I don't expect to get past Rangers in the LC or beat Celtic in the final so any progress there would go a long way to restoring faith.

 

It's that simple, get better results. A lot of people talk about where a club like Hearts should be. But sometimes you are up and sometimes you're down. What isn't acceptable is when we have actually invested in the squad, had a stable management team for a couple years and have a playing side which on paper is as good as any outwith the OF. That team should not be bottom half.

 

We will get Souttar, Haring, Naismith and Walker back fairly soon. There can't be anymore excuses, that team should be challenging Aberdeen.

 

Do you not think that missing these 4 influential players at the same time might have been a reason (not excuse) for not faring better than 5 points from 6 games?  Even the availabilty of Morrison changed the derby game, an option not previously available.

We were top of the league last year at this time before multiple longish-term injuries (to key players) struck.

If you agree with that, you are in effect saying that you like Levein when injures don't bite but hate him when they do.

Edited September 27, 2019 by JamboAl

[troy]

Don’t hate him ,but to answer your question NO 

[jake]

Dont hate him.

I've wanted him out from March though.

If he keeps winning I'd be delighted for him and us

If he manages to turn his round though then he must give up his DOF role.

He has far too much power at the club.

 

[It should have been ten]

3 hours ago, Drumjambo said:

 

Tell that to Man Utd 900 Million since fergie left and they drew wi Rochdale the other night.

 

No quarter given in football Maximum effort is all i want to see and ill be happy win lose or draw.

 

My opinion for what it worth last two games have been choc full of desire and dying for the badge some 50/50s the other night wi smith and whelan were "burst baw " stuff - Keep that going and we'll climb the table !! 

 

An no I don't hate and never will hate Hearts legends..........only trying to do the best for their club !!

 

[Gambo]

Never hated Levein, don't like his style of football.

 

Not many (but one or two will) can deny he deserved the sack for the appalling run of form we were on. That will never change.

 

Play better football, win more games, and hopefully a trophy and I will be delighted for Levein as any Hearts fan would. 

 

It really is simple.

[FruitJuice]

How he approaches the semi final will let us know if he will ever change his ways.  If it's the same approach as every other time he plays one of the old firm in Glasgow, then nothing changes and id want him gone.  Still thin we have a better chance of success with someone else.  It's down to him to shut the cynics up.  He can only do this with a fresh approach to these games.  His usual way hasn't delivered a single thing.  

[mitch41]

3 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Jesus, it’s “give him until Christmas” time again.

Give him till players come back from injury.

Give him till the Semi Final.

Give him till Xmas.

Give him till the transfer window. 

And it goes on and on for the few who will never understand what good management is.

90% plus know his tenure should be up because we have witnessed too many mistakes and 

a lack of building a team that can play good attacking football that will win games. Far better 

managers than Levein have been sacked for a lot less than the shambles of a team we've 

had to watch.

[davie1980]

38 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Do you not think that missing these 4 influential players at the same time might have been a reason (not excuse) for not faring better than 5 points from 6 games?  Even the availabilty of Morrison changed the derby game, an option not previously available.

We were top of the league last year at this time before multiple longish-term injuries (to key players) struck.

If you agree with that, you are in effect saying that you like Levein when injures don't bite but hate him when they do.

 

Well I'm not saying I hate Levein at any time. I've been a fan, supported him when others have demanded he leave, showed patience. But after a long barren run last season (including the end of the season when we got key players back from injury) and then to be bottom of the league, rock solid bottom with 2 points?

I didn't hate him, I thought enough was enough and we needed a change.

2 results hasn't suddenly changed my mind but if he can build on it......

 

We do have good players out but we still have a strong squad of players and the first 3 home fixtures of Ross County, Hamilton and Motherwell aline should have seen us pick up more than 2 points.

 

 

The injury crisis last term was horrendous. Players just as influential as the current list but they were all focussed at centre half and striker positions, we were struggling to fill positions, bringing in emergency loans, sending those emergency loans back injured and bringing in more.

We haven't had that magnitude of challenge facing us this term.

 

Are the missing players a reasonable reason to be dropping points? Perhaps.

No team in the league could lose players of that quality and not suffer

But we're not talking drawing the odd game here and there, we are talking a dismal run of form, form that is well below where we should be performing.

 

[Bull's-eye]

Haters is the correct terminology, we all know it is and we all know who these posters are.

 

Happy Clappers is just as correct. I am one.

 

End of the day, does it really matter as the manager is going to get all the time needed to get it right?

[wavydavy]

8 hours ago, bistokid said:

Haters is such a nonsense statement. 

 

We are 8th in the league. 

He's finished 6th the last 2 seasons. 

The standard of football has been dire for almost 3 years now. 

 

Football fans everywhere want success, achievement in relation to what there teams potential allows. He's not even achieving par nevermind doing what a successful manager does which is get more from his team than he has a right to. 

 

He's been treated in some respects better than previous failed hearts managers. Beyond the fits of frustration where folk sound like it's personal, I very much doubt the vast majority that want him to leave hate him. 

 

To your last point, hires and fires suggests impulsive and rash decision making. It's going on 2.5 years of underachievement. How could that have been perceived as hire and fire? 

 

Well said and I couldn't agree more.

[Hearts1975]

5 hours ago, Jambos_1874 said:

 

I am not trying to "create divide" and don't like the suggestion that there is some kind of sinister motive. Simple post asking a general question - apologies . Mods, please change the thread title to "To those who have lost faith with Levein" so as to avoid people drawing incorrect conclusions/being offended.

Ok, I read your further posts after I had already posted this and when u referenced what u meant 

apologies for jumping in 

[JamboAl]

8 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Well said and I couldn't agree more.

Did you ever get round to saying whether you wanted Hibs to win just to get rid of him?

The OP's question was

what would it take to change your mind?

[busby1985]

Continue to win or at the very least, put up a fight. Find a settled side. Find a settled formation. Address the player fitness. 

[JohnB]

4 hours ago, Bauldrick said:

Craig could easily change my mind by keeping the winning momentum going also by getting his team to be a bit more combative when playing the old firm in Glasgow, by ceasing to sign haddies  and injury prone players, by getting rid of whoever it is who has talent-spotted the aforementioned haddies and by making Tynecastle once again a place that opponents dread coming to.

Well, that's a fairly clear choice - he either sacks himself or John Murray - or then again, both of them.

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, davie1980 said:

 

Well I'm not saying I hate Levein at any time. I've been a fan, supported him when others have demanded he leave, showed patience. But after a long barren run last season (including the end of the season when we got key players back from injury) and then to be bottom of the league, rock solid bottom with 2 points?

I didn't hate him, I thought enough was enough and we needed a change.

2 results hasn't suddenly changed my mind but if he can build on it......

 

We do have good players out but we still have a strong squad of players and the first 3 home fixtures of Ross County, Hamilton and Motherwell aline should have seen us pick up more than 2 points.

 

 

The injury crisis last term was horrendous. Players just as influential as the current list but they were all focussed at centre half and striker positions, we were struggling to fill positions, bringing in emergency loans, sending those emergency loans back injured and bringing in more.

We haven't had that magnitude of challenge facing us this term.

 

Are the missing players a reasonable reason to be dropping points? Perhaps.

No team in the league could lose players of that quality and not suffer

But we're not talking drawing the odd game here and there, we are talking a dismal run of form, form that is well below where we should be performing.

 

I get the impression you are contradicting yourself.

You say no team in the league can lose players of that quality and not suffer but acknowledge perhaps it is a reasonable reason.

You say this season is not as bad as last season for injuries but complain about the dismal run.  Surely it must have been a more reasonable reason last season.

I may add that players coming back from injury may be physically fit but not match fit after a long spell out and the only way they'll get that is by playing games.  Berra hasn't quite achieved that while Uche looks as though he's just about there now.

Edited September 27, 2019 by JamboAl