To the Levein haters: Is there anything he could do to change your mind?

[Jambos_1874]

As the title says. Is there no way back for him in your mind or could he yet redeem himself. I'm talking about realistically i.e. a Scottish Cup win and a European position, not winning the Champions League.

 

I'm still on the fence on whether he can turn it around but given recent results I'd give him until Christmas. Glad to see our owner isn't in the habit of hiring and firing.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Jambos_1874

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Win the League cup 

[bistokid]

Haters is such a nonsense statement. 

 

We are 8th in the league. 

He's finished 6th the last 2 seasons. 

The standard of football has been dire for almost 3 years now. 

 

Football fans everywhere want success, achievement in relation to what there teams potential allows. He's not even achieving par nevermind doing what a successful manager does which is get more from his team than he has a right to. 

 

He's been treated in some respects better than previous failed hearts managers. Beyond the fits of frustration where folk sound like it's personal, I very much doubt the vast majority that want him to leave hate him. 

 

To your last point, hires and fires suggests impulsive and rash decision making. It's going on 2.5 years of underachievement. How could that have been perceived as hire and fire? 

Edited September 27, 2019 by bistokid

[Pans Jambo]

I think some folk will just hate him & that’ll be that. Most however will be satisfied if we start winning, climb the table and stop losing to dross (especially at home). Putting up a decent fight in Glasgow instead of capitulating and trying to “contain” them & getting to the cup semis/finals would also help his case. 

Top 4 should be almost expected for a club of our size & resource. 

 

 

 

 

[kingantti1874]

I don’t hate levein. I defended him massively until March.   What do we need to do?  we do need to win the games we should be winning 9 time’s out of 10.. we need to put up a fight in every game against the old firm and nick the odd result.

 

just as importantly - we need to play in a way that makes me want to go to the football rather than scoop my eyes out with a spoon. I’m not necessarily talking about flair! But we need high energy, high excitement.. chances , movement  goals.!! 

Edited September 27, 2019 by kingantti1874

[Debut 4]

Haters?  Grow up.  

 

Guy was a favourite of mine as a player but if I get to the stage I think he’s not capable, then that’s just a fan’s point of view. 

 

If recent games are a sign it’s turning, then fantastic. But even the man himself says Hearts have a long way to go to rectify the situation 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Debut 4

[Jambos_1874]

12 minutes ago, bistokid said:

Haters is such a nonsense statement. 

 

We are 8th in the league. 

He's finished 6th the last 2 seasons. 

The standard of football has been dire for almost 3 years now. 

 

Football fans everywhere want success, achievement in relation to what there teams potential allows. He's not even achieving par nevermind doing what a successful manager does which is get more from his team than he has a right to. 

 

He's been treated in some respects better than previous failed hearts managers. Beyond the fits of frustration where folk sound like it's personal, I very much doubt the vast majority that want him to leave hate him. 

 

To your last point, hires and fires suggests impulsive and rash decision making. It's going on 2.5 years of underachievement. How could that have been perceived as hire and fire? 

 

 

Ok, "haters" is perhaps the wrong term.

I totally agree with your point though, we have underachieved relative to resources and over a sustained period of time, although there have been some mitigating circumstances. Not sure what you mean about hire and fire. I meant that at least Budge gives people time rather than impulsively hiring and firing at the rates we see in the EPL.

 

[Romulus]

I think the most concerning part of all this, is the amount of power he holds at the club. I would like to see him step down from the board of directors and as director of football and concentrate solely on management of first team matters. I don’t believe we need a director of football at a club our size. If the academy need more support then surely we can employ someone in a role to assist.

[Paisley Jambo]

Go at the end of the season returning to the DoF role. The recent times have shown that the current set up is too reliant on one man. External appointment with a couple of coaching staff moved on(Fox and Daly) to allow the new man to bring in some of his own staff.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Paisley Jambo

[Rudy T]

26 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Haters?  Grow up.  

 

Guy was a favourite of mine as a player but if I get to the stage I think he’s not capable, then that’s just a fan’s point of view. 

 

If recent games are a sign it’s turning, then fantastic. But even the man himself says Hearts have a long way to go to rectify the situation 

 

Exactly my sentiments. He turns this round and I’m happy but we’ve had a few false dawns over the last couple of years so I’m not getting carried away just yet.

 

If Leveins successful so are Hearts why would anyone hate the man for that.

 

Theres plenty with agendas but that runs far deeper than just hating Levein

Edited September 27, 2019 by Rudy T

[Haken]

24 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Haters?  Grow up.  

 

Guy was a favourite of mine as a player but if I get to the stage I think he’s not capable, then that’s just a fan’s point of view. 

 

If recent games are a sign it’s turning, then fantastic. But even the man himself says Hearts have a long way to go to rectify the situation 

Haters is ridiculous, in much the same manner as apologist or happy clapper.  Right?

 

If the team wins regularly, the noise disappears.  I imagine one or two posters will, too.

[Section Q]

Unfortunately Levein thinks Hearts is his club. The fans turned against him a long time ago with good reason. No way back for Levein. As mentioned on another thread I hope we're already looking for his successor.

[Italian Lambretta]

Wiining back to back league games would be a start.

[Jim Panzee]

I could well be wrong, but have we not had posters on here saying the hate levein? Can't stand the man etc? I'm maybe missing the point...

[Forever Hearts]

15 minutes ago, Italian Lambretta said:

Wiining back to back league games would be a start.

Steady now. 

[Shaggy2]

There was a very similar thread a few days ago called, “What would it take?” I think.

I said on there that he MUST win the next three games (ER, Wednesday and tomorrow). The nature of cup tie football means a draw can be counted as a win thanks to penalties so he’s on course for me to give him a stay of execution (just) despite being unconvincing outside of the last 25 at ER and the first 25 on Wednesday. Anything less than 3pts tomorrow and he’s back to square one, I’m afraid. Even then, we’ve got Killie and The Rangers coming up and a repeat of the pathetic efforts that we saw against these two at home last season will ramp up the pressure. 

A long, long way to go and a lot of intense pressure to be handled over the next 4 weeks.

[sam?]

1 hour ago, Jambos_1874 said:

As the title says. Is there no way back for him in your mind or could he yet redeem himself. I'm talking about realistically i.e. a Scottish Cup win and a European position, not winning the Champions League.

 

I'm still on the fence on whether he can turn it around but given recent results I'd give him until Christmas. Glad to see our owner isn't in the habit of hiring and firing.

for a kick off go to st mirren staurday and dont sit in take the game to them, we should be able to go toe to toe with anyone away from home outside OF.

 

Too many times over the last few years weve not got out of first gear until weve went behind

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

I don't think hate is too strong a word for some of the vitriol. 

 

Personally believe he has underachieved and the curve has not been upward. 

 

Keep winning and dominating games the noise goes away. It's as simple as that 

[johnthomas]

1 hour ago, Debut 4 said:

Haters?  Grow up.  

 

Guy was a favourite of mine as a player but if I get to the stage I think he’s not capable, then that’s just a fan’s point of view. 

 

If recent games are a sign it’s turning, then fantastic. But even the man himself says Hearts have a long way to go to rectify the situation 

Unfortunately hater is the correct term for many (not all) on here . Look at the , many , threads . Lots of criticism but also lots of hatred 

[Ron Burgundy]

8 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said:

There was a very similar thread a few days ago called, “What would it take?” I think.

I said on there that he MUST win the next three games (ER, Wednesday and tomorrow). The nature of cup tie football means a draw can be counted as a win thanks to penalties so he’s on course for me to give him a stay of execution (just) despite being unconvincing outside of the last 25 at ER and the first 25 on Wednesday. Anything less than 3pts tomorrow and he’s back to square one, I’m afraid. Even then, we’ve got Killie and The Rangers coming up and a repeat of the pathetic efforts that we saw against these two at home last season will ramp up the pressure. 

A long, long way to go and a lot of intense pressure to be handled over the next 4 weeks.

I agree with you on all of this.

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, bistokid said:

Haters is such a nonsense statement. 

 

We are 8th in the league. 

He's finished 6th the last 2 seasons. 

The standard of football has been dire for almost 3 years now. 

 

Football fans everywhere want success, achievement in relation to what there teams potential allows. He's not even achieving par nevermind doing what a successful manager does which is get more from his team than he has a right to. 

 

He's been treated in some respects better than previous failed hearts managers. Beyond the fits of frustration where folk sound like it's personal, I very much doubt the vast majority that want him to leave hate him. 

 

To your last point, hires and fires suggests impulsive and rash decision making. It's going on 2.5 years of underachievement. How could that have been perceived as hire and fire? 

Agreed. 

[Leveins Battalion]

I love Craig Levein,absolutely love him but the football his teams have served up for too long has been abysmal.Can he redeem himself?Of course he can,do I want him to be a success?100% but you can only support somebody so much.

 

If we don’t improve big time he has to go!

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Paisley Jambo said:

Go at the end of the season returning to the DoF role. The recent times have shown that the current set up is too reliant on one man. External appointment with a couple of coaching staff moved on(Fox and Daly) to allow the new man to bring in some of his own staff.

How would him moving back to DoF really change ya being reliant on one man though, especially if he chooses his replacement. I think a clean break is required, but if Budge is making those decisions it’s unlikely as who would she ask to get in a new DoF and Head Coach. Definitely need new first team coaches though.

[GinRummy]

Difficult question to answer. I want hearts to have a good league and cup campaign, simple as that. I just don’t think CL in charge gives us the best shout. 

 

Not sitting in and showing rangers too much respect would be a start. 

[cosanostra]

Unless he wins a trophy or finishes 3rd or above, he must go.

He's had enough chances and there have been enough excuses for our awful football and poor league form.

 

[Beast Boy]

Hate is probably too strong a word, but I’ve read posts on here where posters have described former players and managers’ dislike for the man. I forget the exact terms used. 

[Hearts1975]

1 hour ago, Jambos_1874 said:

As the title says. Is there no way back for him in your mind or could he yet redeem himself. I'm talking about realistically i.e. a Scottish Cup win and a European position, not winning the Champions League.

 

I'm still on the fence on whether he can turn it around but given recent results I'd give him until Christmas. Glad to see our owner isn't in the habit of hiring and firing.

It’s a non sensical post for a start.

you will probably find that most folk that don’t want Levein to continue in post don’t hate him at all. 

 

He played for the club and if it wasn’t for injury, as a player, he could have went on to be one of the classiest Scotland CB’s of the modern era.

 

he wants the best for HOMFC no question and I can see how much the club means to him - no question 

 

As a Manager he has his imperfections. Just because someone bleeds maroon doesn’t mean that you have to bury your head in the sand and agree all is fine when it isn’t fine. Look at Lockie FFS, he bleeds maroon but AB/CL got rid of him no hesitation 

 

now I don’t have a problem with them doing that but at the same point if they step into the firing line then they and anyone else who does isn’t above criticism when things aren’t going well 

 

but it’s this line thrown around constantly that if u don’t want levein in post you must hate him and I am sick of hearing it 

 

how can u hate an ex player who played and managed us regardless of how you rate him performance wise ? 

 

Honestly, nothing directed at you personally but it feels like you are trying to create some far reaching divide with comments like that. I have heard folk criticising him, including me, but I have never ever read someone come on and say they hate him. If they did that’s absolute pish patter 

 

hate is an extreme expression. You can hate racists/homophobes/bigots and peadophiles etc but why on earth do you think anyone would feel like that toward Craig Levein just because they think we could get a better 1st team coach in place ?

 

Utter bollocks in my humble opinion 

 

 

[Agentjambo]

3rd and a cup win.

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

20 minutes ago, cosanostra said:

Unless he wins a trophy or finishes 3rd or above, he must go.

He's had enough chances and there have been enough excuses for our awful football and poor league form.

 

Absolutely.

[Mikey1874]

Breaking News

 

Q12 in HMSA Craig suggests going back to DoF if team "stabilised" this season. 

[Eddie]

How we started and played in that first half on wed is very encouraging. Got to admit injuries, plus lack of confidence big Uche prime example of that. Keep that up, get some key players back and we’ll be fine. Think he’s gonna turn it around 

[1971fozzy]

“Haters” is not the right word to use 

[Archie White]

I don't hate Levein, but I love the Club and the team. If he has proved anything over the past 2 years as manager it is that he is not good enough in this role for the Club or the team. I don't think anyone can deny that now with his record over the last 24 months. As has been said before, any other club would have sacked him by now with our appalling League form. Unfortunately, despite this it looks as if we are lumbered with him till the season end at least. Despite our results in the last 2 games I struggle to see us making any further headway in the Cup and although we may push for a 4th place finish at season's end is that really success? He still needs to go in my opinion.

[Victorian]

Firstly it's about winning games,   which leads to a better league position and advancement in cups.    What we've seen before though is that,   when the results do become better,   the emphasis shifts towards style of play,   attacking football,   scoring more goals,   etc.

 

The really important thing is results.    Style of football is desirable but secondary.     But it is quickly promoted to primary when it suits.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Victorian

[The Gorgie]

Win games it's fairly simple, don't expect us to go on a celtic 69 unbeaten run but going 13 league games without a win is not our standard.

[Diego10]

40 minutes ago, cosanostra said:

Unless he wins a trophy or finishes 3rd or above, he must go.

He's had enough chances and there have been enough excuses for our awful football and poor league form.

 

What if he gets to two cup finals we lose to Celtic and we finish 4th?  

 

I think he's extremely lucky to still be in a job, but views are always coloured by results.  

 

Tomorrow's game is huge for him, and a tough one.  On paper we should be winning, but the squad is stretched and coming off the back of two very intense games with little recovery time.  If he can get a win there then next week against Killie it'll look a much better position.  He's not got the credit in the bank to throw in a performance like our last trip to Paisley, no matter the mitigation.

 

There are undoubtedly people who want him gone regardless of what he does from here though.

[cosanostra]

3 minutes ago, Diego10 said:

What if he gets to two cup finals we lose to Celtic and we finish 4th?  

 

I think he's extremely lucky to still be in a job, but views are always coloured by results.  

 

Tomorrow's game is huge for him, and a tough one.  On paper we should be winning, but the squad is stretched and coming off the back of two very intense games with little recovery time.  If he can get a win there then next week against Killie it'll look a much better position.  He's not got the credit in the bank to throw in a performance like our last trip to Paisley, no matter the mitigation.

 

There are undoubtedly people who want him gone regardless of what he does from here though.

 

Can't really argue with any of that and to your question, that would be a decent season so I'd probably give him another year if he wanted it.

I can see him retreating back to the safety of the DoF job at the end of this season.

[Governor Tarkin]

We need more Levein haters imo.

 

[NaturalOrder74]

Positives are I don’t think he could do any more in the cups we’re pretty much progressing past any opponent until we come up against old firm and that’s getting us to semi finals and finals don’t think we can ask for more with this, also would like to point out we’re winning derbies again and we were struggling before he was back in charge 

 

Cons would be league form is and last two years has been pretty mince, even with the excuses of injuries last season and picking up the mess from Cathro the year before he’s difficult to defend finishing 6th two years in a row isn’t great. Would also like to say a lot of the time the football has been pretty awful but hard the performances have been there at times 

 

he’s hardly gonna get sacked after winning a derby and getting into the semi final was hard to defend last year when he had an easy cup run but this year he’s put out Motherwell and Aberdeen so far and that’s two difficult games we’re gonna have to ride it out regardless so may as well support him and hope for success 

[Jambos_1874]

45 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

It’s a non sensical post for a start.

you will probably find that most folk that don’t want Levein to continue in post don’t hate him at all. 

 

He played for the club and if it wasn’t for injury, as a player, he could have went on to be one of the classiest Scotland CB’s of the modern era.

 

he wants the best for HOMFC no question and I can see how much the club means to him - no question 

 

As a Manager he has his imperfections. Just because someone bleeds maroon doesn’t mean that you have to bury your head in the sand and agree all is fine when it isn’t fine. Look at Lockie FFS, he bleeds maroon but AB/CL got rid of him no hesitation 

 

now I don’t have a problem with them doing that but at the same point if they step into the firing line then they and anyone else who does isn’t above criticism when things aren’t going well 

 

but it’s this line thrown around constantly that if u don’t want levein in post you must hate him and I am sick of hearing it 

 

how can u hate an ex player who played and managed us regardless of how you rate him performance wise ? 

 

Honestly, nothing directed at you personally but it feels like you are trying to create some far reaching divide with comments like that. I have heard folk criticising him, including me, but I have never ever read someone come on and say they hate him. If they did that’s absolute pish patter 

 

hate is an extreme expression. You can hate racists/homophobes/bigots and peadophiles etc but why on earth do you think anyone would feel like that toward Craig Levein just because they think we could get a better 1st team coach in place ?

 

Utter bollocks in my humble opinion 

 

 

 

I am not trying to "create divide" and don't like the suggestion that there is some kind of sinister motive. Simple post asking a general question - apologies . Mods, please change the thread title to "To those who have lost faith with Levein" so as to avoid people drawing incorrect conclusions/being offended.

[graygo]

9 minutes ago, NaturalOrder74 said:

Positives are I don’t think he could do any more in the cups we’re pretty much progressing past any opponent until we come up against old firm and that’s getting us to semi finals and finals don’t think we can ask for more with this, also would like to point out we’re winning derbies again and we were struggling before he was back in charge 

 

Cons would be league form is and last two years has been pretty mince, even with the excuses of injuries last season and picking up the mess from Cathro the year before he’s difficult to defend finishing 6th two years in a row isn’t great. Would also like to say a lot of the time the football has been pretty awful but hard the performances have been there at times 

 

he’s hardly gonna get sacked after winning a derby and getting into the semi final was hard to defend last year when he had an easy cup run but this year he’s put out Motherwell and Aberdeen so far and that’s two difficult games we’re gonna have to ride it out regardless so may as well support him and hope for success 

 

Bang on the cash with that post.

[tcjambo]

Of course some people on here hate him. The vitriol has been disgusting at times. That having been said the majority have has cause to be concerned and sometimes cannot resist expressing themselves more forcefully than is strictly necessary. 

 

Hopefully we have a successful season and then people will allow him to retreat into the background having given us a springboard to push on.

[It should have been ten]

3 hours ago, bistokid said:

Haters is such a nonsense statement. 

 

 

Not really when it’s clear some on here actually do hate the man. Absolute weirdos 

[It should have been ten]

1 hour ago, Leveins Battalion said:

I love Craig Levein,absolutely love him but the football his teams have served up for too long has been abysmal.Can he redeem himself?Of course he can,do I want him to be a success?100% but you can only support somebody so much.

 

If we don’t improve big time he has to go!

 

[Cruyff Turn]

Plenty Levein haters on KB. Levein could win a trophy & 3rd this season and they’d hate him. 

 

For some it’s personal. For most folk it’s just about poor form and if things turnaround they’ll get back on board. 

[NB GIN]

Anyone that believes he is the man to move us forward needs help. 

 

 

[1874robbo]

3 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

I don’t hate levein. I defended him massively until March.   What do we need to do?  we do need to win the games we should be winning 9 time’s out of 10.. we need to put up a fight in every game against the old firm and nick the odd result.

 

just as importantly - we need to play in a way that makes me want to go to the football rather than scoop my eyes out with a spoon. I’m not necessarily talking about flair! But we need high energy, high excitement.. chances , movement  goals.!! 

This for me too.

[bighalders]

I'm not a levein hater. Totally respect the guy. Great player too.  Not good enough to be a Hearts manager though as borne out by our 6th  6th in last two previous seasons so there is nothing he should be able to do going forward as he should not be at the club

[Forever Hearts]

10 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Plenty Levein haters on KB. Levein could win a trophy & 3rd this season and they’d hate him.

 

For some it’s personal. For most folk it’s just about poor form and if things turnaround they’ll get back on board. 

Nonsense. What reason would they have to hate him if he delivered success for Hearts? 

[1874robbo]

The same question could really be asked to the Levein supporters.

is there anything that would make you change your mind as I see a lot of blind loyalty purely because of his hearts connection.

if he was a foreign manager he’d have been emptied long ago.