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The Sevco saga continues ...


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8 hours ago, JackLadd said:

Anyone else confused where the Sevco money is coming from? An unlisted dodgy football club with no real proper auditing is surely the perfect vehicle for laundering dirty cash into. King is a convicted criminal as we know. 

 

Rangers have sold over 45,000 season tickets.....that is probably in the region of £20m worth.

 

 

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The Future's Maroon
2 hours ago, jamboz said:

When are they due to pay SD legal bill etc? 

 

Pretty sure it was last week (16th springs to mind), don’t know if it was paid or not.

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Glamorgan Jambo
42 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

 

Rangers have sold over 45,000 season tickets.....that is probably in the region of £20m worth.

 

 

£20 million including VAT of over £3 million which they collect on behalf of HMRC. 

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10 minutes ago, Glamorgan Jambo said:

£20 million including VAT of over £3 million which they collect on behalf of HMRC. 

And some of that money is probably funding last seasons short fall too

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1 hour ago, DH1986 said:

 

Rangers have sold over 45,000 season tickets.....that is probably in the region of £20m worth.

 

 


revenue vanity, profits sanity applies perfectly to TRFC. Year after year they are making significant losses. As big a figure as it is, it is little indication of their spending power.  

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2 hours ago, DH1986 said:

 

Rangers have sold over 45,000 season tickets.....that is probably in the region of £20m worth.

 

 

 

Probably not.

Average price will be diluted by kids and OAP tickets. Any prediction would be guess work. I’d suggest average season ticket cost of £350 coming in at £15.75mill (£12.6mill after VAT). 

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2 hours ago, DH1986 said:

 

Rangers have sold over 45,000 season tickets.....that is probably in the region of £20m worth.

 

 

Wonder what their wages to income ratio is ?

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Their wage to turnover figures must be frightening.

 

Last season they spent around £25 Million on wages.

 

I'd expect that will nearly be double this season.

 

And that was while they made a £15 Million loss.  Not sure how much they will have made from the Europa league last year, but it won't be £15 Million.

 

The eggs are all in the Europa league basket again this season.

 

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Wonder what their wages to income ratio is ?

 See above.

 

Last season was 74 %

 

This year will be much higher with all the new players and new contracts for Morelos etc...

 

Can't imagine many (If any) of their first team are on less than 15K a week.

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3 hours ago, DH1986 said:

 

Rangers have sold over 45,000 season tickets.....that is probably in the region of £20m worth.

 

 

Which will be needed to pay a hefty wage bill for the season. 

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2 hours ago, Lovecraft said:

 See above.

 

Last season was 74 %

 

This year will be much higher with all the new players and new contracts for Morelos etc...

 

Can't imagine many (If any) of their first team are on less than 15K a week.

74% jesus thats not a sustainable model , there should be (if there isnt already) a wage percentage to turnover limit set for financial fair play

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21 minutes ago, Getintaethem said:

Celtic taking Forster on loan.  You get the feeling Gordon's days there are numbered.

 

Lets hope he "enjoys" a few more moments like this.

 

 

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UEFA making Rangers close a section of Ibrox will put a wee dent in their projected cash flow - but may also make some sponsors nervous about guilt by association....

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alwaysthereinspirit
On 22/08/2019 at 04:42, Mysterion said:

 

Probably not.

Average price will be diluted by kids and OAP tickets. Any prediction would be guess work. I’d suggest average season ticket cost of £350 coming in at £15.75mill (£12.6mill after VAT). 

VAT? 🤣 Good one.

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brunoatemyhamster
1 hour ago, hereford_hearts said:

I'll believe it when I see it. 

They'd need to sell Morelos, they'd need a real bid. 

Eintracht, Another team who were meant to be fighting for El Gruffalos signature, seem to have bought a striker today. 

Can't find 6 million for Kent, but have 10 million for this dude? 

At least make them believable Traynor. 

Danny Ings signed yet? 

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1 hour ago, brunoatemyhamster said:

I'll believe it when I see it. 

They'd need to sell Morelos, they'd need a real bid. 

Eintracht, Another team who were meant to be fighting for El Gruffalos signature, seem to have bought a striker today. 

Can't find 6 million for Kent, but have 10 million for this dude? 

At least make them believable Traynor. 

Danny Ings signed yet? 

it is bas dost frankfurt have just bought, 7M euros. he has an almost goal per game in the league for sporting (it is something like 76 goals in 85 games)

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https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/derek-ferguson-michael-stewart-rangers-18997927

 

Stewart can be a total arse about Levein and Hearts, but you have to give him credit for telling it like it is. Won’t accept that Sevco aren’t doing everything they can to tackle sectarianism whilst they are still selling orange shirts, and quite right too. Sad to see that Derek Ferguson is still such a complete bluenose. Shown up as thick as mince in this article, too.

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ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS
2 minutes ago, chefjambo said:

Think it was gary mackay’s testemonial stag lunch where derek Ferguson sing the sash . 

 

::facepaw::

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Getintaethem

Whilst it's impossible not to feel sympathy for the Bury fans, who today saw their liquidated club expelled by the English FA, it highlights how ridiculous the stance of Reagan and Doncaster was throughout the whole Sevco saga.

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2 hours ago, Getintaethem said:

Whilst it's impossible not to feel sympathy for the Bury fans, who today saw their liquidated club expelled by the English FA, it highlights how ridiculous the stance of Reagan and Doncaster was throughout the whole Sevco saga.

 

 

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shaun.lawson
2 hours ago, Getintaethem said:

Whilst it's impossible not to feel sympathy for the Bury fans, who today saw their liquidated club expelled by the English FA, it highlights how ridiculous the stance of Reagan and Doncaster was throughout the whole Sevco saga.

 

Not remotely. Not least because Bury haven't been liquidated. They're very much still alive. It's just that they now have no league to play in until next season at least.

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shaun.lawson
On 26/08/2019 at 17:22, Doc Rob said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/derek-ferguson-michael-stewart-rangers-18997927

 

Stewart can be a total arse about Levein and Hearts, but you have to give him credit for telling it like it is. Won’t accept that Sevco aren’t doing everything they can to tackle sectarianism whilst they are still selling orange shirts, and quite right too. Sad to see that Derek Ferguson is still such a complete bluenose. Shown up as thick as mince in this article, too.

 

Yep. And going all the way back to 2000, everyone knew what the Orange Final actually meant. And it had sod all to do with their Dutch manager or Dutch players.

 

Thing is though, with all this about Rangers playing in orange - what's the difference between that and Celtic playing in green? 

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shaun.lawson
On 12/07/2019 at 20:30, Marooon! said:

 

There's one annoying doubt that lingers in my mind about the whole "new club" thing. 

 

 It was the old holding company that was liquidated and a new holding company was set up. Same thing happened with Leeds. Old holding company went bust only to be replaced by a new holding company. But Leeds are still recognised as the same club and retain their history by the authorities that matter (fifa, UEFA, FA etc, just like rangers)

 

The vermin too have just been transferred to a new company. Same club though.

 

Can someone honestly clarify why they are a new club but Leeds and vermin ain't? Or is it really just to wind them up and point scoring? 

 

Cheers. 

 

 

It's just to wind them up and points score. And I say that while not caring one bit if you're a Rangers fan or Hearts fan.

 

Leeds were allowed to stay in the same division despite the holding company going bust. Nobody thinks of them of a new club; they're still Dirty Leeds. Middlesbrough were allowed to stay in the same division in 1986 despite the gates to Ayresome Park being locked and their club being liquidated. Nobody thinks of them as a new club either.

 

Same, in Italy, with Fiorentina, Napoli and Parma. And anyone who insists that Rangers 'died' are automatically acknowledging that Hearts died in 1876, and again in 1905. Yet our badge dates back to 1874. Funny, that. 

 

Rangers were liquidated because HMRC were their largest creditor. Hearts were not liquidated because HMRC were not our largest creditor. That's it. That's all there is to it. Our fans saved the club because there was the chance to do so; their fans couldn't stop Rangers being liquidated because there was no chance to do so. Yet they still play in blue and white, they still play at Ibrox in front of about 45000 drunk, overweight Glaswegians; their fans still chant sectarian filth; and they still think they're the Queens XI. If it looks like a turkey and waddles like a turkey, it's a turkey.

 

However, having said all that... the winding-up and points scoring works like a dream. Resulting in paroxysms of rage from the great unwashed. It's only because of Rangers fans' hilarious reactions that it carries on even now, over 7 years on.

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Rangers FC went bust and died. What is trading out of Ibrox now is Sevco Scotland limited 2012 trading as The Rangers with league membership of the dead club transferred along with 54 titles by Doncaster including 7 won by defrauding social taxes. Even Green admitted in court he did not buy the club. 

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3 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

It's just to wind them up and points score. And I say that while not caring one bit if you're a Rangers fan or Hearts fan.

 

Leeds were allowed to stay in the same division despite the holding company going bust. Nobody thinks of them of a new club; they're still Dirty Leeds. Middlesbrough were allowed to stay in the same division in 1986 despite the gates to Ayresome Park being locked and their club being liquidated. Nobody thinks of them as a new club either.

 

Same, in Italy, with Fiorentina, Napoli and Parma. And anyone who insists that Rangers 'died' are automatically acknowledging that Hearts died in 1876, and again in 1905. Yet our badge dates back to 1874. Funny, that. 

 

Rangers were liquidated because HMRC were their largest creditor. Hearts were not liquidated because HMRC were not our largest creditor. That's it. That's all there is to it. Our fans saved the club because there was the chance to do so; their fans couldn't stop Rangers being liquidated because there was no chance to do so. Yet they still play in blue and white, they still play at Ibrox in front of about 45000 drunk, overweight Glaswegians; their fans still chant sectarian filth; and they still think they're the Queens XI. If it looks like a turkey and waddles like a turkey, it's a turkey.

 

However, having said all that... the winding-up and points scoring works like a dream. Resulting in paroxysms of rage from the great unwashed. It's only because of Rangers fans' hilarious reactions that it carries on even now, over 7 years on.

Sorry, but most of that is simply factually incorrect.

 

Leeds United were saved in the nick of time by being bought out of administration at the eleventh hour, thus avoiding liquidation.

 

Middlesborough were the last club to become insolvent before the introduction of the Insolvency Act 1986. The process they went through was the equivalent of going into administration, just like we did.

 

Neither of those two clubs' insolvencies were remotely similar to Rangers liquidation (nor any other club they claim to be comparable with), quite aside from the matters of Scots Law and the SFA/SPL/SFL.

 

Italy has openly operated a franchise system for its clubs for many years. It did not wait for the death of a club before backdating the introduction of that franchise system.

 

Rangers did not have a holding company. The football club became a company through incorporation in 1899, creating one legal entity. That entity is currently going through the liquidation process.

 

Gretna 2008 play their home matches at Raydale Park in the same colours and in front of the same supporters as their defunct predecessors, Gretna FC. Despite those similarities, they are not treated as being the same club as the one that died, nor should they.

 

The club currently playing out of Ibrox is not legally the same club as the one which was founded in 1872 and died in 2012. Our football authorities, as per the terms of the five-way agreement, have treated the new club as if it was the old one for fear of losing TV and other contracts. There is a world of difference between actually still being a club that died and merely being treated as if it was that club for the sake of financial expediency.

 

Hearts avoided the death of liquidation by the skin of our teeth. Do you seriously think the powers that be would have concocted the survival myth for us? You only have to read about the plight of Bury and Bolton fighting for their very existence to realise that the immortal metaphysical club construct invented for Rangers is unique to Rangers, even although the immortal metaphysical club concept has been laughed out of court by several judges.

 

 

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Dallas Green
7 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Yep. And going all the way back to 2000, everyone knew what the Orange Final actually meant. And it had sod all to do with their Dutch manager or Dutch players.

 

Thing is though, with all this about Rangers playing in orange - what's the difference between that and Celtic playing in green

 

Celtic always have played in Green, due to their Irish roots.

 

Rangers weren't set up by the Orange Lodge or by Dutch men. 

 

 

 

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Footballfirst
23 minutes ago, Dallas Green said:

 

Celtic always have played in Green, due to their Irish roots.

 

Rangers weren't set up by the Orange Lodge or by Dutch men. 

 

Correct, Rangers association with protestantism only started in the 1910's, more in reflection that they weren't catholics rather than a direct celebration of protestant roots. The trigger probably lay in the recruitment to the Govan shipyards, with a notable "Catholics need not apply" policy of some shipyard owners that appealed to a proportion of the local populace and spread to the football club.

 

That period coincided with Bill Struth joining Rangers, initially as an assistant manager in 1914, then as manager in 1920. It was Struth more than anyone else who was responsible for the subsequent ingrained anti catholic and pro unionist protestantism sentiments that continues to this day.  

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brunoatemyhamster
1 hour ago, Mysterion said:

Not as much about the speculative financial perils - but the fans attempt to replicate Manchester riots on the streets of Glasgow during the summer... 

 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/4649185/rangers-sandy-chugg-inter-city-firm-casuals-hooligans-glasgow/

 

 

This dudes name !

 

I had one of them in Portobello one night years ago.

 

A charity worker these days no doubt.

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7 hours ago, newbie said:

Sorry, but most of that is simply factually incorrect.

 

Leeds United were saved in the nick of time by being bought out of administration at the eleventh hour, thus avoiding liquidation.

 

Middlesborough were the last club to become insolvent before the introduction of the Insolvency Act 1986. The process they went through was the equivalent of going into administration, just like we did.

 

Neither of those two clubs' insolvencies were remotely similar to Rangers liquidation (nor any other club they claim to be comparable with), quite aside from the matters of Scots Law and the SFA/SPL/SFL.

 

Italy has openly operated a franchise system for its clubs for many years. It did not wait for the death of a club before backdating the introduction of that franchise system.

 

Rangers did not have a holding company. The football club became a company through incorporation in 1899, creating one legal entity. That entity is currently going through the liquidation process.

 

Gretna 2008 play their home matches at Raydale Park in the same colours and in front of the same supporters as their defunct predecessors, Gretna FC. Despite those similarities, they are not treated as being the same club as the one that died, nor should they.

 

The club currently playing out of Ibrox is not legally the same club as the one which was founded in 1872 and died in 2012. Our football authorities, as per the terms of the five-way agreement, have treated the new club as if it was the old one for fear of losing TV and other contracts. There is a world of difference between actually still being a club that died and merely being treated as if it was that club for the sake of financial expediency.

 

Hearts avoided the death of liquidation by the skin of our teeth. Do you seriously think the powers that be would have concocted the survival myth for us? You only have to read about the plight of Bury and Bolton fighting for their very existence to realise that the immortal metaphysical club construct invented for Rangers is unique to Rangers, even although the immortal metaphysical club concept has been laughed out of court by several judges.

 

 

 

Nice to see someone taking the time to post actual facts on Kickback, rather than just what some posters would prefer to be the case.

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1 hour ago, Mysterion said:

Not as much about the speculative financial perils - but the fans attempt to replicate Manchester riots on the streets of Glasgow during the summer... 

 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/4649185/rangers-sandy-chugg-inter-city-firm-casuals-hooligans-glasgow/

 

 

 

Just showed that pic to my pal his response was “He gives off a cerain vibe in that pic of the 4 of them together , sure i’v seen him in cheerz but no chance id go near him he looks like a pregnant camp queen” 😳

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27 minutes ago, brunoatemyhamster said:

This dudes name !

 

I had one of them in Portobello one night years ago.

 

A charity worker these days no doubt.

 

You had a chugg in Portobello or a hooligan? 

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28 minutes ago, HighTimes said:

 

Nice to see someone taking the time to post actual facts on Kickback, rather than just what some posters would prefer to be the case.

 

Agreed. Really nice post, @newbie :thumbsup:

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AllyjamboDerbyshire
7 hours ago, newbie said:

Sorry, but most of that is simply factually incorrect.

 

Leeds United were saved in the nick of time by being bought out of administration at the eleventh hour, thus avoiding liquidation.

 

Middlesborough were the last club to become insolvent before the introduction of the Insolvency Act 1986. The process they went through was the equivalent of going into administration, just like we did.

 

Neither of those two clubs' insolvencies were remotely similar to Rangers liquidation (nor any other club they claim to be comparable with), quite aside from the matters of Scots Law and the SFA/SPL/SFL.

 

Italy has openly operated a franchise system for its clubs for many years. It did not wait for the death of a club before backdating the introduction of that franchise system.

 

Rangers did not have a holding company. The football club became a company through incorporation in 1899, creating one legal entity. That entity is currently going through the liquidation process.

 

Gretna 2008 play their home matches at Raydale Park in the same colours and in front of the same supporters as their defunct predecessors, Gretna FC. Despite those similarities, they are not treated as being the same club as the one that died, nor should they.

 

The club currently playing out of Ibrox is not legally the same club as the one which was founded in 1872 and died in 2012. Our football authorities, as per the terms of the five-way agreement, have treated the new club as if it was the old one for fear of losing TV and other contracts. There is a world of difference between actually still being a club that died and merely being treated as if it was that club for the sake of financial expediency.

 

Hearts avoided the death of liquidation by the skin of our teeth. Do you seriously think the powers that be would have concocted the survival myth for us? You only have to read about the plight of Bury and Bolton fighting for their very existence to realise that the immortal metaphysical club construct invented for Rangers is unique to Rangers, even although the immortal metaphysical club concept has been laughed out of court by several judges.

 

 

Excellent post, precise and to the point. It would grace any of the top newspapers (but finding one interested in telling the truth would be difficult if not impossible) or, heaven forbid, an article from one of the BBC 'sports journalists'.

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Just now, BelgeJambo said:

I wonder if Jake Hastie knew he would be loaned out to Rotherham when he signed for Sevco?

 

 

He’s been miles off it since he signed for them, boys bang average. Only two weeks ago he stopped being made to train with the youths. 

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On 28/08/2019 at 15:48, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

Excellent post, precise and to the point. It would grace any of the top newspapers (but finding one interested in telling the truth would be difficult if not impossible) or, heaven forbid, an article from one of the BBC 'sports journalists'.

 

Dearie me, it's nonsense. You simply can't say stuff like "Rangers did not have a holding company. The football club became a company through incorporation in 1899, creating one legal entity. That entity is currently going through the liquidation process..."

 

....and then on the other hand claim Leeds were saved despite their 1920-incorporated club/company going the way of the dodo 

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/football/leeds-united/leeds-united-latest/liquidators-finally-draw-a-line-under-leeds-united-s-2007-administration-with-less-than-750-000-paid-to-unsecured-creditors-1-9673129

 

"Liquidators appointed after Leeds United entered administration almost 12 years ago have finally dissolved the original company which owned the club - with less than £750,000 paid to unsecured creditors.

Leeds United Association Football Club Limited, the firm established when the club were formed in 1920, was formally liquidated last month after KPMG filed its last report with Companies House."

 

I'm all for winding up the huns but let's not delude ourselves. They weren't the first club to pull off the newco debt dumping trick, and they won't be the last. See Bolton Wanderers "escape from liquidation" for the latest example. If you think that's a rescue of the debt-laden corporate entity you're deluding yourself. It'll be dropped like a stone for the fresh, debt-free Newco.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Stephen_East said:

 

Dearie me, it's nonsense. You simply can't say stuff like "Rangers did not have a holding company. The football club became a company through incorporation in 1899, creating one legal entity. That entity is currently going through the liquidation process..."

 

....and then on the other hand claim Leeds were saved despite their 1920-incorporated club/company going the way of the dodo 

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/football/leeds-united/leeds-united-latest/liquidators-finally-draw-a-line-under-leeds-united-s-2007-administration-with-less-than-750-000-paid-to-unsecured-creditors-1-9673129

 

"Liquidators appointed after Leeds United entered administration almost 12 years ago have finally dissolved the original company which owned the club - with less than £750,000 paid to unsecured creditors.

Leeds United Association Football Club Limited, the firm established when the club were formed in 1920, was formally liquidated last month after KPMG filed its last report with Companies House."

 

I'm all for winding up the huns but let's not delude ourselves. They weren't the first club to pull off the newco debt dumping trick, and they won't be the last. See Bolton Wanderers "escape from liquidation" for the latest example. If you think that's a rescue of the debt-laden corporate entity you're deluding yourself. It'll be dropped like a stone for the fresh, debt-free Newco.

 

 

 

 

Your club DIED, get over it. 

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52 minutes ago, Stephen_East said:

 

Dearie me, it's nonsense. You simply can't say stuff like "Rangers did not have a holding company. The football club became a company through incorporation in 1899, creating one legal entity. That entity is currently going through the liquidation process..."

 

....and then on the other hand claim Leeds were saved despite their 1920-incorporated club/company going the way of the dodo 

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/football/leeds-united/leeds-united-latest/liquidators-finally-draw-a-line-under-leeds-united-s-2007-administration-with-less-than-750-000-paid-to-unsecured-creditors-1-9673129

 

"Liquidators appointed after Leeds United entered administration almost 12 years ago have finally dissolved the original company which owned the club - with less than £750,000 paid to unsecured creditors.

Leeds United Association Football Club Limited, the firm established when the club were formed in 1920, was formally liquidated last month after KPMG filed its last report with Companies House."

 

I'm all for winding up the huns but let's not delude ourselves. They weren't the first club to pull off the newco debt dumping trick, and they won't be the last. See Bolton Wanderers "escape from liquidation" for the latest example. If you think that's a rescue of the debt-laden corporate entity you're deluding yourself. It'll be dropped like a stone for the fresh, debt-free Newco.

 

 

You simply have no understanding of the legal position here.

 

I assume you support Sevco and used to support a defunct team called Rangers. The only thing about those 2 institutions that are the same is that I despise them both and always will.

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Spitonastranger
2 hours ago, Stephen_East said:

 

Dearie me, it's nonsense. You simply can't say stuff like "Rangers did not have a holding company. The football club became a company through incorporation in 1899, creating one legal entity. That entity is currently going through the liquidation process..."

 

....and then on the other hand claim Leeds were saved despite their 1920-incorporated club/company going the way of the dodo 

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/football/leeds-united/leeds-united-latest/liquidators-finally-draw-a-line-under-leeds-united-s-2007-administration-with-less-than-750-000-paid-to-unsecured-creditors-1-9673129

 

"Liquidators appointed after Leeds United entered administration almost 12 years ago have finally dissolved the original company which owned the club - with less than £750,000 paid to unsecured creditors.

Leeds United Association Football Club Limited, the firm established when the club were formed in 1920, was formally liquidated last month after KPMG filed its last report with Companies House."

 

I'm all for winding up the huns but let's not delude ourselves. They weren't the first club to pull off the newco debt dumping trick, and they won't be the last. See Bolton Wanderers "escape from liquidation" for the latest example. If you think that's a rescue of the debt-laden corporate entity you're deluding yourself. It'll be dropped like a stone for the fresh, debt-free Newco.

 

 

You let your club die and you know it

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1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

Fantastic financial health to have £7 million plus wages for another player. 

 

There is no way they are paying that up front, prob arguing about the payment plan and installments

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Footballfirst
3 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

 

There is no way they are paying that up front, prob arguing about the payment plan and installments

 

Rangers looking to make a deal with Liverpool over Kent, still hoping to get him on loan until January with an obligation to buy, the other option they're trying to push is for Liverpool to accept £2m up front with the other £5m over the next two summer windows with a 25% sell-on
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2 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

 

There is no way they are paying that up front, prob arguing about the payment plan and installments

Phonecall to liverpool

 

£50 a month out of kent’s wage to cover it until we go bust then we will pay you a percentage because Dave can’t get the Park’s to pony up more money. Otherwise should we get to the champions league we will pay you half then and £50 a month after that out of kents wages. Well when i say out of kents wages I mean out of what we are supposed to pay the tax man 🙄

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  • cosanostra changed the title to Sevco are as stupid as we thought

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