Biguche Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 16 minutes ago, Boris said: There is a difference between liquidation and administration. Not sure what your point is meant to be here. Fact is, we had bills that we never paid too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereford_hearts Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Just now, Biguche said: Not sure what your point is meant to be here. Fact is, we had bills that we never paid too. We reached an agreement with our creditors to pay a certain percentage. Hence administration. The Huns could not do that, hence liquidation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harko Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 minute ago, hereford_hearts said: We reached an agreement with our creditors to pay a certain percentage. Hence administration. The Huns could not do that, hence liquidation! Hence they let their club die Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Harko said: Hence they let their club die but but but they are ra peeepul and the big hooose must stay open Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biguche Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, hereford_hearts said: We reached an agreement with our creditors to pay a certain percentage. Hence administration. The Huns could not do that, hence liquidation! I know Rangers were liquidated, I didn't realise that was under debate? I said we had unpaid bills like Rangers did. Being allowed to enter an arrangement where you pay your creditors some of what you owe instead of none isn't any more moral than being unable to enter into an arrangement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biguche Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 19 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: And tax avoidance (legal) and tax evasion (illegal). However, the biggest misdemeanour in a football sense was, and remains, not declaring what they were paying players contractually. Exactly 👍. Re not declaring to the SFA, what was the advantage gained there? (Genuinely don't know). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phage Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 25 minutes ago, Biguche said: See above. And I'm not a Rangers fan I can assure you. I've just never understood the seethe towards them for going bankrupt. Looking closer to home, didn't we run up a lot of bills we couldn't pay? They cheated everyone involved in Scottish football! By avoiding paying the rightful tax due that Hearts, Hibs and *every other team* paid on players wages, they could afford international stars. Purely because of EBTs they feilded a vastly better team for decades. So everytime they won a cup, league or knocked a team out of a cup, there is a team and paying supporters that havent had a fair shot at winning the game or competition. League cup final 1996 for example. If you have spent £200-300 to watch Hearts road to the final. If you spend £100 to go to the final and watch plucky Hearts lose that game. You have been cheated! You've spent a lot of money watching a team systemically cheat for years winning the majority of trophies. So thats where the seethe comes from. Another aspect of the seethe is they stiffed the taxman for 100m+. So if you kid goes to school and the school is a little crap and needs more teachers and/or repairs... Rangers cheating not only cheated all football fans in Scotland... it also cheated society. Cant really think of anything to like about Rangers... oh we did get to see Laudrup, Gascoigne and a host of international stars. However... consider the 1998 league campaign we were 7 points behind Celtic (winners) and 5 points behind Rangers. But against (a cheating) Rangers our results were 1-3, 0-3, 2-5 defeats and a draw. A bit of if's and but's here but if that was a level playing feild that league gets a lot closer and who knows! Nobody, because Rangers cheated! Everyone that believes in fairness should seethe. *Celtic had Juninho on an EBT scheme but squared up the tax man before it became a big problem unlike Rangers.* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 29 minutes ago, Biguche said: Exactly 👍. Re not declaring to the SFA, what was the advantage gained there? (Genuinely don't know). i believe that everything was supposed to be declared to the SFA or their registrations were not valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Biguche said: Exactly 👍. Re not declaring to the SFA, what was the advantage gained there? (Genuinely don't know). No one knew they were evading tax because they hid it and they were therefore able to sign players they couldn't afford. Do you think they would have gone to such lengths to illegally hide their actions if there wasn't an advantage to be had? Edited October 12, 2019 by Smithee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 46 minutes ago, Biguche said: Exactly 👍. Re not declaring to the SFA, what was the advantage gained there? (Genuinely don't know). The reason they couldn't declare the payments in contracts was that would made all payments taxable, like wages. Which is why all contracts have to be lodged with the SFA so that no cheating occurs. They cheated and their results should have been expunged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Panzee Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 3 hours ago, rick witter said: Is it really that interesting? Too many people seem to be interested in what Rangers are up to. (Which by the way is actually being a successful FOOTBALL team on the park). We on the other hand are stumbling along from one shit show to the next and nothing is being done about it. Pathetic!! It's possible to be interested in more than one subject. The number of posts re The Rangers & finances suggest it's of interest to others. football finances are topical at the moment. Ask any Bury or Bolton fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biguche Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 25 minutes ago, Smithee said: No one knew they were evading tax because they hid it and they were therefore able to sign players they couldn't afford. Do you think they would have gone to such lengths to illegally hide their actions if there wasn't an advantage to be had? Because it's impossible to "know" something that isn't true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Biguche said: Because it's impossible to "know" something that isn't true. Sound. Anyway, **** the hun, they let their club die, never let them forget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereford_hearts Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 3 hours ago, rick witter said: Is it really that interesting? Too many people seem to be interested in what Rangers are up to. (Which by the way is actually being a successful FOOTBALL team on the park). We on the other hand are stumbling along from one shit show to the next and nothing is being done about it. Pathetic!! The only reason that sevco are successful, is that again, they are living beyond their means. They are losing 14 million pounds a year, which is being covered up by director loans being converted into shares. Eventually the cash will run out, and they will be back in the pooh. They are putting all of their eggs into getting into the champions League basket, and we all know how well that went last time. They are spending more on wages, than our turnover for a year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Biguche said: Because it's impossible to "know" something that isn't true. Except it was true and found to be so by the courts. However, even if EBTs were legal, it was still moot. They were playing their players payments that were not part of their contracts, i.e. under the counter, and that is illegal in football's rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biguche Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 34 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: The reason they couldn't declare the payments in contracts was that would made all payments taxable, like wages. Which is why all contracts have to be lodged with the SFA so that no cheating occurs. They cheated and their results should have been expunged. Ok, so they didn't declare it because they didn't consider it to be earnings. Which was the basis of their argument with HMRC. Just had a quick Google and Rangers won the case at FTT then won the appeal too. It was only at the final stage that a court decided the scheme didn't work. My point being it was a technical argument, it didn't go their way and so they paid the price. I think there's a perception that they were involved in evading tax which just isn't true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Fox Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Biguche said: Exactly 👍. Re not declaring to the SFA, what was the advantage gained there? (Genuinely don't know). So that the payments were hidden!! Therefore the authorities did not know about them!! Therefore they thought that no action would be taken!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Just now, Biguche said: Ok, so they didn't declare it because they didn't consider it to be earnings. Which was the basis of their argument with HMRC. Just had a quick Google and Rangers won the case at FTT then won the appeal too. It was only at the final stage that a court decided the scheme didn't work. My point being it was a technical argument, it didn't go their way and so they paid the price. I think there's a perception that they were involved in evading tax which just isn't true Technical argument? I don't think you understand how tax law works. They were found guilty of evading tax. When found guilty, HMRC normally ask for a payment schedule to meet the restitution or, in extremis, people go to jail (see Lester Piggott). Ye olde Rangers could not pay that and therefore ended up liquidated. Anyway, your dismissal of the contracts lets you down. THAT was the key issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said: So that the payments were hidden!! Therefore the authorities did not know about them!! Therefore they thought that no action would be taken!! And that by not paying tax, they could pay an effective higher wage than their competitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biguche Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Just now, Geoff Kilpatrick said: Technical argument? I don't think you understand how tax law works. They were found guilty of evading tax. When found guilty, HMRC normally ask for a payment schedule to meet the restitution or, in extremis, people go to jail (see Lester Piggott). Ye olde Rangers could not pay that and therefore ended up liquidated. Anyway, your dismissal of the contracts lets you down. THAT was the key issue. With respect, I think it's you who doesn't understand. You are categorically wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Fox Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Biguche said: Ok, so they didn't declare it because they didn't consider it to be earnings. Which was the basis of their argument with HMRC. Just had a quick Google and Rangers won the case at FTT then won the appeal too. It was only at the final stage that a court decided the scheme didn't work. My point being it was a technical argument, it didn't go their way and so they paid the price. I think there's a perception that they were involved in evading tax which just isn't true If it was not tax evasion why are the individuals that ‘benefited’ from evading paying tax having to pay it now?? Rangers (as were) were crooked and alas their reincarnation was supported by the football authorities who are from a similar ilk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Biguche said: With respect, I think it's you who doesn't understand. You are categorically wrong. In what sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Imagine trying to defend your dead club on another team's fan forum Exciting life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biguche Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Just now, Geoff Kilpatrick said: In what sense? You don't seem to understand the difference between tax avoidance schemes and tax evasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Fox Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Biguche said: You don't seem to understand the difference between tax avoidance schemes and tax evasion. The Rangers scheme was tax evasion ... that’s illegal!! Get over it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Just now, Biguche said: You don't seem to understand the difference between tax avoidance schemes and tax evasion. I know perfectly well the difference between the two. Example: Pension contribution = tax avoidance because you obtain tax relief on that contribution. The government allows that and indeed encourages that. Paying someone cash in hand for doing some work to your house = tax evasion by the labourer. In this case, a discretionary trust making discretionary non-scheduled payments = tax avoidance. A discretionary trust making payments that represent a substitute for wages = tax evasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Fox Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: I know perfectly well the difference between the two. Example: Pension contribution = tax avoidance because you obtain tax relief on that contribution. The government allows that and indeed encourages that. Paying someone cash in hand for doing some work to your house = tax evasion by the labourer*** In this case, a discretionary trust making discretionary non-scheduled payments = tax avoidance. A discretionary trust making payments that represent a substitute for wages = tax evasion. *** assumes the labourer does not declare on their tax return Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biguche Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Just now, Jambo-Fox said: The Rangers scheme was tax evasion ... that’s illegal!! Get over it! 😂 Cringing for you mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Just now, Jambo-Fox said: *** assumes the labourer does not declare on their tax return Fair point well made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Fox Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Just now, Biguche said: 😂 Cringing for you mate Run along now ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, Biguche said: You don't seem to understand the difference between tax avoidance schemes and tax evasion. It is you who doesn't understand. EBT's, per se, were not illegal. However, a person's income is subject to tax. You pay as you earn and if your employer doesn't declare exactly how much you are earning then that constitutes tax evasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busby8 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Biguche said: Because it's impossible to "know" something that isn't true. But I Know ............. that you appear to be a well reasoned sensible chap 👍 Edited October 12, 2019 by Busby8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, Biguche said: 😂 Cringing for you mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biguche Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said: It is you who doesn't understand. EBT's, per se, were not illegal. However, a person's income is subject to tax. You pay as you earn and if your employer doesn't declare exactly how much you are earning then that constitutes tax evasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haringshairband Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 This forum is Hoaching with Huns at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biguche Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, Smithee said: Not relevant to me mate but they appear to be doing ok for themselves all things considered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick witter Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 42 minutes ago, Smithee said: Sound. Anyway, **** the hun, they let their club die, never let them forget. Yawn 😴😴😴 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, rick witter said: Yawn 😴😴😴 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Biguche said: Ok, so they didn't declare it because they didn't consider it to be earnings. Which was the basis of their argument with HMRC. Just had a quick Google and Rangers won the case at FTT then won the appeal too. It was only at the final stage that a court decided the scheme didn't work. My point being it was a technical argument, it didn't go their way and so they paid the price. I think there's a perception that they were involved in evading tax which just isn't true To this day I cannot understand how Rangers won any of these two. It is a well established law that anything that comes to you by way of your employment is almost certainly a taxable emolument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Tamland Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Biguche has played a blinder here, absolute top trolling by a hun slaver and ably assisted by the other 'peepul' hanging about here. As much as it may hurt your arsehole - YOU LET YOUR CLUB DIE. That's not even an argument it is fact, you and all the other bigoted arseholes chose not to pump in millions, you chose to LET YOUR CLUB DIE instead. Us Hearts fans on the other hand saved our club but YOU LET YOUR CLUB DIE If people like Shit Twitter find this thread boring then why do you read it and post on it? I find that a real mystery. There's plenty interesting stuff on here that highlights the corruption in our game, how poor our sporting governing body is, how Sevco get treated differently and the financial battles they have in court are a good read too, FF's insight is always interesting too. Some of the Glib and shameless liars statements are a laugh as well. Boring this thread isn't, ra peepul coming on to another teams forum trying to convince us Hearts fans that your club never died is tragic, what sort of soulless life do you people live? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FruitJuice Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 41 minutes ago, rick witter said: Yawn 😴😴😴 Would you get tired of reminding hibs fan about 5-1 and why would a hearts fan get tired off ridiculing a rival club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brux Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 56 minutes ago, Biguche said: What's going on with his hair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Tamland Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, redjambo said: Take a step back from the computer. Now take a deep breath. You are on a football forum on the internet, pretending to be a supporter of another team just to get your kicks. How has your life come to this? Is this where you wanted to be when you were a young guy with all those hopes for the future? The thing is, it's so obvious to the rest of us - you're fooling absolutely no-one except yourself (and so is Biguche, your fellow Hun on here ;)). So, come on, write your witty Hun-loving or Celtic-hating retort and then sit back and ask yourself if this is really you being the best, better than all the rest, or just being a twat. Outstanding reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereford_hearts Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 25 minutes ago, EarnockJambo said: Maybe there should be a separate thread about how both you and biguche let your club die? 👏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marooon! Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Just now, hereford_hearts said: 👏 Instead of clapping like a demented sea lion why don't you answer my question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccarton3 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Rangers, always the victim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAndrew Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Rangers and Celtic. Both the same to me. They are the arsecheeks. One and the same. Both shitestained. Sense of entitlement ridden horrible wee clubs with a big support of halfwits that allow them to be big fish in a small pond. If Celtic disappear, and rangers disappear again, the world would be a better place. Plastic clubs with plastic fans who have to keep telling themselves they are the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick witter Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 3 hours ago, FruitJuice said: Would you get tired of reminding hibs fan about 5-1 and why would a hearts fan get tired off ridiculing a rival club? Of course I wouldn’t get tired of the 5-1 but I will leave the Let your club die, never won a trophy blah blah blah to the children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick witter Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said: Hope as well then you have no time for any of your family or anything else. You need to maintain that 100% focus on Hearts being shite to bring about any change. Otherwise you are not a true Hearts fan. Those of us who do have time for other things are relying on you. How is that even close to what he said??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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