The Sevco saga continues ...

[PortyBeach]

4 hours ago, Doc Rob said:

Different situation though. We were arranging a CVA with our creditors, who were themselves in administration, and the aim is to preserve the business as an ongoing concern. Rangers were in liquidation, the aim of which is supposed to be to sell off the company’s remaining assets in the interest of the creditors. Which clearly isn’t what happened.

In an Administration Period you also need administrative staff who want to help the business survive as a going concern. 
Fortunately, we got that - plus agreeable creditors.

HMRC were probably owed too much to support a CVA for RFC.
But Rangers’ hopes of survival were seriously undermined by David King who bizarrely opposed a CVA…

 

[PortyBeach]

9 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

In an Administration Period you also need administrative staff who want to help the business survive as a going concern. 
Fortunately, we got that - plus agreeable creditors.

HMRC were probably owed too much to support a CVA for RFC.
But Rangers’ hopes of survival were seriously undermined by David King who bizarrely opposed a CVA…

 

Director Dave King calls for Rangers CVA rejection

7 June 2012

Rangers director Dave King is urging creditors to reject Charles Green's company voluntary arrangement.

South Africa-based King has also called on the club's supporters not to renew their season tickets until Green's consortium details its plans.

"I am opposing the CVA and urge all loyal fans to do the same," said the exiled Scot.

Green described King's statement as "breathtaking in its arrogance" and "destructive" to the club's interests.

[Sooks]

27 minutes ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

Fair play for doubling down, but nae need to scrape the barrel with lower level slurs.

 

My experiences? Mostly genuine fans going to games to support their team (however deluded they may be).

 

I had a few good laughs with Der Hun en-route to Ibrox recently.

 

Oh, by the way ... the worst, and most embarrassing scenes from our recent 🏆 semi-final were down to Hearts fans.

 

The angry post-match numptie arguing with a non-football car driver?

 

Utterly pathetic.

 

The 'entitled' fat-necked eejits in J1 who were aggressive to fellow Hearts supporters when politely asked to sit down?

 

We have our fair share of numpties.

My family is riddled with them . I am 45 years old . I am quite comfortable with my opinion on Huns 

 

You are a decent lad Mikey . I am perfectly happy with my views on Huns though . Thank you for caring , but I am good  

 

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Sooks

[PortyBeach]

17 minutes ago, Sooks said:

My family is riddled with them . I am 45 years old . I am quite comfortable with my opinion on Huns 

 

You are a decent lad Mikey . I am perfectly happy with my views on Huns though . Thank you for caring , but I am good  

 

 

If I may intervene here, chaps.

I respect both of you as Hearts stalwarts so please, of all things, don’t fall out over Sevco, FFS!!

[Sooks]

14 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

If I may intervene here, chaps.

I respect both of you as Hearts stalwarts so please, of all things, don’t fall out over Sevco, FFS!!

Indeed I will not . I will leave that to the Huns  

[Wee Mikey]

45 minutes ago, Sooks said:

My family is riddled with them . I am 45 years old . I am quite comfortable with my opinion on Huns 

 

You are a decent lad Mikey . I am perfectly happy with my views on Huns though . Thank you for caring , but I am good  

 

Good grief!!!

 

At only 45 years old?

 

You are gonna have many years of turmoil.

 

Bestest wishes. 😆

 

A (nother) stravaig down the valley beyond your local hot-spot of Rosslyn Chapel beckons ...

 

Wanna join us?

 

I do a good picnic.

 

😆

Edited November 21, 2023 by Wee Mikey
Cannae spell ...

[Wee Mikey]

16 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Indeed I will not . I will leave that to Der Huns  

 

FTFY ...

 

🤭

[Sooks]

7 minutes ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

FTFY ...

 

🤭

 

[Wee Mikey]

20 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

 

One day ...

[Jambo-Fox]

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

My family is riddled with them . I am 45 years old . I am quite comfortable with my opinion on Huns 

 

You are a decent lad Mikey . I am perfectly happy with my views on Huns though . Thank you for caring , but I am good  

 

 

I’m not sure if you are serious about your age. Reading your posts I assumed you were mid sixties to early seventies but I guess that shows my judgement is wrong!

[periodictabledancer]

2 hours ago, PortyBeach said:

In an Administration Period you also need administrative staff who want to help the business survive as a going concern. 
Fortunately, we got that - plus agreeable creditors.

HMRC were probably owed too much to support a CVA for RFC.
But Rangers’ hopes of survival were seriously undermined by David King who bizarrely opposed a CVA…

 

David Murray offered HMRC £10 million to walk away - they laughed in his face.

The idea of a CVA for deidco is just fanciful nonsense as HMRC was never going to agree to it given the level of criminality, the lying , the scale of the fraud , the corruption. 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

My family is riddled with them

 

 

Half mine are Hibs right enough

[Sooks]

1 hour ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

 

Half mine are Hibs right enough

Few of them too  

[Sooks]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Fox said:

I’m not sure if you are serious about your age. Reading your posts I assumed you were mid sixties to early seventies but I guess that shows my judgement is wrong!

Mid forties mate . An old soul though  

[Wee Mikey]

28 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Mid forties mate . An old soul though  

 

But young at heart?

 

 

[Sooks]

5 minutes ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

But young at heart?

 

 

First time I heard it at the family home dining table on TOTP , I liked it ……….. every single time since ………… ugh 

 

This is a decent song about how shite it is getting old though

 

 

[PortyBeach]

11 hours ago, periodictabledancer said:

David Murray offered HMRC £10 million to walk away - they laughed in his face.

The idea of a CVA for deidco is just fanciful nonsense as HMRC was never going to agree to it given the level of criminality, the lying , the scale of the fraud , the corruption. 

I think HMRC’s response was predictable but so was the request for a CVA in an effort to avoid liquidation.

But why did King oppose a CVA?

[periodictabledancer]

18 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

I think HMRC’s response was predictable but so was the request for a CVA in an effort to avoid liquidation.

But why did King oppose a CVA?

Hard to tell with King - why a S African with no money (and no means of getting any money at all out of the country ) was allegedly  interested in buying Rangers (dead or alive) is one of life's great mysteries. IIRC he was heavily involved in The Rangers - and got some/most of his shares for free or at a heavy discount so one way or another he made a ton of cash out of it. 

But then Rangers did seem to attract quite a few shady characters who thought they could make money out of it - as did happen with TheRangers and their £37 million share issue cash that had disapeared within a couple of years and the debt spiral started again.

[Sooks]

24 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

Hard to tell with King - why a S African with no money (and no means of getting any money at all out of the country ) was allegedly  interested in buying Rangers (dead or alive) is one of life's great mysteries. IIRC he was heavily involved in The Rangers - and got some/most of his shares for free or at a heavy discount so one way or another he made a ton of cash out of it. 

But then Rangers did seem to attract quite a few shady characters who thought they could make money out of it - as did happen with TheRangers and their £37 million share issue cash that had disapeared within a couple of years and the debt spiral started again.

Edit - person I mentioned was not South African 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Sooks

[PortyBeach]

5 hours ago, periodictabledancer said:

Hard to tell with King - why a S African with no money (and no means of getting any money at all out of the country ) was allegedly  interested in buying Rangers (dead or alive) is one of life's great mysteries. IIRC he was heavily involved in The Rangers - and got some/most of his shares for free or at a heavy discount so one way or another he made a ton of cash out of it. 

But then Rangers did seem to attract quite a few shady characters who thought they could make money out of it - as did happen with TheRangers and their £37 million share issue cash that had disapeared within a couple of years and the debt spiral started again.

King was/is certainly shady of character! Convicted in South Africa of 41 tax offences and was described variously as “a glib and shameless liar” and a “mendacious witness”.

Vlad Romanov summed-up RFC pretty well:

”The opinion of Heart of Midlothian FC in regards to the current situation of Scottish football is clear and robust,” said Romanov. “The football mafia represented by former owners of Rangers FC and Rupert Murdoch’s media are to blame for some of the worst problems to hit Scottish football and must not be allowed back in under any circumstances.

“As regards the club itself, we can only express our deepest condolences to its supporters, who have been lied to for so many years. It had to happen sooner or later. Victories were achieved not by sporting merits, but through slander, conspiracies amongst players and their poaching via third parties and by unfair pressuring of referees, who themselves are as valuable to the fabric of football as the football stars themselves.

“All of this brought hollow victories and destroyed football. We can also mention the attempts to eliminate Hearts with the help of the tax petitions, through false accusations and threats to revoke the club licence. There is a saying about digging a grave for someone – you get it for yourself. Without these people football will become cleaner and stronger. Without Murdoch the whole of society will improve, in particular sport and culture. Supporters deserve a new beginning and have to accept the fact that their club has to start from the lower league, keeping order in the SPL and without creating unfair competition with other clubs.”

 

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

6 hours ago, Sooks said:

Edit - person I mentioned was not South African 

Can't say this with absolute certainty, but wasn't King a South African citizen, though born in Scotland?

[gordon simpson]

6 hours ago, periodictabledancer said:

Hard to tell with King - why a S African with no money (and no means of getting any money at all out of the country ) was allegedly  interested in buying Rangers (dead or alive) is one of life's great mysteries. IIRC he was heavily involved in The Rangers - and got some/most of his shares for free or at a heavy discount so one way or another he made a ton of cash out of it. 

But then Rangers did seem to attract quite a few shady characters who thought they could make money out of it - as did happen with TheRangers and their £37 million share issue cash that had disapeared within a couple of years and the debt spiral started again.

long may men with no scruples keep rapeing the kings 11,and  the most brainless support in our country 

[Sooks]

21 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

Can't say this with absolute certainty, but wasn't King a South African citizen, though born in Scotland?

Yeah think so too . Definitely had citizenship . I had written a post that I deleted though . I thought that slimy prick Alisdair Johnston was from South Africa as well , but checked and it just says Scotland and America for him 

[Sooks]

1 hour ago, PortyBeach said:

King was/is certainly shady of character! Convicted in South Africa of 41 tax offences and was described variously as “a glib and shameless liar” and a “mendacious witness”.

Vlad Romanov summed-up RFC pretty well:

”The opinion of Heart of Midlothian FC in regards to the current situation of Scottish football is clear and robust,” said Romanov. “The football mafia represented by former owners of Rangers FC and Rupert Murdoch’s media are to blame for some of the worst problems to hit Scottish football and must not be allowed back in under any circumstances.

“As regards the club itself, we can only express our deepest condolences to its supporters, who have been lied to for so many years. It had to happen sooner or later. Victories were achieved not by sporting merits, but through slander, conspiracies amongst players and their poaching via third parties and by unfair pressuring of referees, who themselves are as valuable to the fabric of football as the football stars themselves.

“All of this brought hollow victories and destroyed football. We can also mention the attempts to eliminate Hearts with the help of the tax petitions, through false accusations and threats to revoke the club licence. There is a saying about digging a grave for someone – you get it for yourself. Without these people football will become cleaner and stronger. Without Murdoch the whole of society will improve, in particular sport and culture. Supporters deserve a new beginning and have to accept the fact that their club has to start from the lower league, keeping order in the SPL and without creating unfair competition with other clubs.”

 

Romanov smelt what was wrong after about five minutes and here we still are 

[Footballfirst]

King was shafted by David Murray after he invested £20m in Rangers via Murray Sports around 2000.

 

His tax problems in SA surfaced in 2002 and included reference to his investment in  Rangers as funds that should have been subject to tax in SA.

 

Murray marginalised him to some extent, while King believed he should have had greater influence in the running of the club.

[Doc Rob]

On 21/11/2023 at 18:44, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

Yeah and no, it wasn't up to our administrators, it was UBIG's liquidator and they couldn't care less, but at the end of the day we both got away with it and got our stadiums at a massive discount.

The point is that the administrators are working on behalf of the business to try and save it. Liquidators are working on behalf of the creditors to try and get some of their money back. Or at least that was my understanding. In our case, we agreed a CVA which paid 10p in the pound, the club kept trading, and the creditors got some of their money back. With Rangers, the liquidators were actually obliged to seek the best deal possible for the creditors, which would include selling any remaining assets for as much as they could get. Clearly they didn’t do this, and it remains a mystery how they got away with it.

 

Yes, I don’t deny that we were lucky, in that we were a small cog in Vlad’s collapsing empire and the administrators/liquidators weren’t that fussed about us, so a CVA paying 10p in the pound was acceptable. But the two situations were not the same at all.
 

[Wee Mikey]

Shit!!!

 

I had a spare £1 then.

 

Damn and blast!

 

We could've swooped in and taken them over.

 

Could've been much fun for our mini Hun contingent?

 

Foundation Of Hun ...

 

😆

 

"After protracted takeover negotiations with David Murray, the club was bought by Scottish businessman Craig Whyte on 6 May 2011 for £1, through his company Wavetower Limited (subsequently renamed The Rangers FC Group Limited)"

 

[Footballfirst]

11 hours ago, Doc Rob said:

The point is that the administrators are working on behalf of the business to try and save it. Liquidators are working on behalf of the creditors to try and get some of their money back. Or at least that was my understanding. In our case, we agreed a CVA which paid 10p in the pound, the club kept trading, and the creditors got some of their money back. With Rangers, the liquidators were actually obliged to seek the best deal possible for the creditors, which would include selling any remaining assets for as much as they could get. Clearly they didn’t do this, and it remains a mystery how they got away with it.

Rangers Administrators (duff & Phelps) were taken to court by their Liquidators (BDO), with the judge ruling in favour of the liquidators in October 2021.  Amounts payable as per the judgement:

 

Loss of chance of sale of marketable players £977,500
Loss of chance of sale of Steven Naismith £827,000
Loss of chance of lease and sale of Ibrox Stadium £750,000
Loss of chance of sale of Murray Park £850,000
Total £3,404,500
Interest on this sum at the rate of 4% per annum from 6 February 2017.

 

While Hearts did indeed achieve a CVA, no unsecured creditor received a dividend as the secured creditors (UBIG administrators) took all the funds.

[Doc Rob]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

Rangers Administrators (duff & Phelps) were taken to court by their Liquidators (BDO), with the judge ruling in favour of the liquidators in October 2021.  Amounts payable as per the judgement:

 

Loss of chance of sale of marketable players £977,500
Loss of chance of sale of Steven Naismith £827,000
Loss of chance of lease and sale of Ibrox Stadium £750,000
Loss of chance of sale of Murray Park £850,000
Total £3,404,500
Interest on this sum at the rate of 4% per annum from 6 February 2017.

 

While Hearts did indeed achieve a CVA, no unsecured creditor received a dividend as the secured creditors (UBIG administrators) took all the funds.

 

Yes, I was aware that there was a court case. What I don't understand is how the clearly fraudulent sale of the stadium to the new club for a fraction of its value - moving it out of the reach of the creditors, in the manner of an embattled CEO selling himself his company car for a tenner - was allowed to stand.

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, Doc Rob said:

 

Yes, I was aware that there was a court case. What I don't understand is how the clearly fraudulent sale of the stadium to the new club for a fraction of its value - moving it out of the reach of the creditors, in the manner of an embattled CEO selling himself his company car for a tenner - was allowed to stand.

You need to ask why there were no higher bids for the assets.

 

It could be down to the administrators not marketing them properly, e.g. selling them on a break up basis rather than as a whole. 

 

On the other hand, there were arguments that non football use of the Ibrox site was not great value for a purchaser as similar sites were available at lower prices. Similarly with Auchenhowie because of planning constraints on building houses 

[sac]

On 21/11/2023 at 08:14, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

I don't believe any true Hearts fan doesn't refer to the Huns as Huns.

Dirty cheating Huns, if I’m not mistaken.

[Sooks]

54 minutes ago, sac said:

Dirty cheating Huns, if I’m not mistaken.

Thick dirty cheating Huns

[Bazzas right boot]

7 hours ago, sac said:

Dirty cheating Huns, if I’m not mistaken.

 

Smelly, dirty, cheating, zombie,*******ing ***** face huns

 

[jbee647]

13 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

You need to ask why there were no higher bids for the assets.

 

It could be down to the administrators not marketing them properly, e.g. selling them on a break up basis rather than as a whole. 

 

On the other hand, there were arguments that non football use of the Ibrox site was not great value for a purchaser as similar sites were available at lower prices. Similarly with Auchenhowie because of planning constraints on building houses 

Whenever they go to buy a player particularly from Scottish clubs there never ever seems to be a counter offer from elsewhere, there never seems to be anyone else in competition for the players signature, John Souttar is a case in point, watch in January if they go for Shankland, don’t be surprised by the lack of a bidding war, or alternate competition for his signature 

 

 

 

 

 

[PortyBeach]

17 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

You need to ask why there were no higher bids for the assets.

 

It could be down to the administrators not marketing them properly, e.g. selling them on a break up basis rather than as a whole. 

 

On the other hand, there were arguments that non football use of the Ibrox site was not great value for a purchaser as similar sites were available at lower prices. Similarly with Auchenhowie because of planning constraints on building houses 

Why no higher bids emerged is indeed intriguing.

But if Green’s consortium was determined to operate a Rangers #2 from Ibrox, you might have thought that - if the stadium was valued at £100M+ - the liquidators might just have negotiated a more realistic price?

[Bazzas right boot]

5 hours ago, jbee647 said:

Whenever they go to buy a player particularly from Scottish clubs there never ever seems to be a counter offer from elsewhere, there never seems to be anyone else in competition for the players signature, John Souttar is a case in point, watch in January if they go for Shankland, don’t be surprised by the lack of a bidding war, or alternate competition for his signature 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A few Englush clubs were interested in Souttar.

 

[Sir PH]

5 hours ago, jbee647 said:

Whenever they go to buy a player particularly from Scottish clubs there never ever seems to be a counter offer from elsewhere, there never seems to be anyone else in competition for the players signature, John Souttar is a case in point, watch in January if they go for Shankland, don’t be surprised by the lack of a bidding war, or alternate competition for his signature 

 

 

 

 

 

What does this post actually mean? 

 

And there were other clubs sniffing about Souttar, Blackburn Rovers for one. 

[jbee647]

5 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

A few Englush clubs were interested in Souttar.

 

Yes interested, but no one actually came forward with a bid, it’s a thing I’ve noticed not necessarily with regards to Hearts , but Rangers have regularly managed to get players very cheaply or free, Aribo, Bassey, Cantwell and Tom Lawrence are all cases in point.

I have this concern that Shankland will be sold on the cheap because Rangers will be the only offer on the table.

 

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

Yes interested, but no one actually came forward with a bid, it’s a thing I’ve noticed not necessarily with regards to Hearts , but Rangers have regularly managed to get players very cheaply or free, Aribo, Bassey, Cantwell and Tom Lawrence are all cases in point.

I have this concern that Shankland will be sold on the cheap because Rangers will be the only offer on the table.

 

 

Or the best offer.

[jbee647]

1 minute ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Or the best offer.

Haha I know I’m not explaining this very well

What I’m probably implying is that I don’t trust Rangers, they are not adverse to pulling a few strokes, especially when finance is involved.

Rangers will not pay Hearts or for that matter any other Scottish club what a home based player is worth, we might very well get a higher offer elsewhere for Shankland, but don’t be surprised if he said he will only sign for Rangers.

 

[Sir PH]

22 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

Yes interested, but no one actually came forward with a bid, it’s a thing I’ve noticed not necessarily with regards to Hearts , but Rangers have regularly managed to get players very cheaply or free, Aribo, Bassey, Cantwell and Tom Lawrence are all cases in point.

I have this concern that Shankland will be sold on the cheap because Rangers will be the only offer on the table.

 

This still doesn't make sense. Are you blaming Rangers for doing what every other club does - trying to sign players for as cheap as they possibly can? What is your actual point?

[The Real Maroonblood]

31 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

Haha I know I’m not explaining this very well

What I’m probably implying is that I don’t trust Rangers, they are not adverse to pulling a few strokes, especially when finance is involved.

Rangers will not pay Hearts or for that matter any other Scottish club what a home based player is worth, we might very well get a higher offer elsewhere for Shankland, but don’t be surprised if he said he will only sign for Rangers.

 

Just say the Huns are scum.

That would suffice. 

[Bazzas right boot]

42 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

Haha I know I’m not explaining this very well

What I’m probably implying is that I don’t trust Rangers, they are not adverse to pulling a few strokes, especially when finance is involved.

Rangers will not pay Hearts or for that matter any other Scottish club what a home based player is worth, we might very well get a higher offer elsewhere for Shankland, but don’t be surprised if he said he will only sign for Rangers.

 

 

We so the same tbh, look at us with Shankland and even utd with Souttar and Neilson. every £ is a prisoner.

 

Personally,  I think his lack of pace is a huge issue when you talk about championship level or above and that is why he'll have limited offers.

 

For Rangers he could rotate with a another striker and do a great job in the league.

He'd also be handy off the bench if he's not a regular in Europe.

Hate to say it but he's a perfect 2nd striker for Rangers. Kris Boyd springs to mind

 

The Saudi league could also be a curve ball.

 

 

 

 

[Jim Panzee]

4 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

We so the same tbh, look at us with Shankland and even utd with Souttar and Neilson. every £ is a prisoner.

 

Personally,  I think his lack of pace is a huge issue when you talk about championship level or above and that is why he'll have limited offers.

 

For Rangers he could rotate with a another striker and do a great job in the league.

He'd also be handy off the bench if he's not a regular in Europe.

Hate to say it but he's a perfect 2nd striker for Rangers. Kris Boyd springs to mind

 

The Saudi league could also be a curve ball.

 

 

 

 

suspect the rangers would be willing to offer us £500k for shanks, £12k - £15k a week for him over 3 yrs to come off the bench when needed and get goals in tight games to turn draws into wins.

[Bazzas right boot]

2 hours ago, Jim Panzee said:

suspect the rangers would be willing to offer us £500k for shanks, £12k - £15k a week for him over 3 yrs to come off the bench when needed and get goals in tight games to turn draws into wins.

 

Yip.

It's abput what I'd offer if I was the Huns.

 

 

[PortyBeach]

56 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Yip.

It's abput what I'd offer if I was the Huns.

 

 

I think Shanks will have an eye on cementing his Scotland position and might therefore reckon the stability of staying at Tynecastle until the season ends would better allow him to do that as he’d be playing regular first-team football and scoring goals on a regular basis. 
He might have a different view about staying with Hearts over the summer, but I think he might just want to defer that conversation until then.

It might be interesting if Celtic were to compete for his services and provide that competition that some posters feel tends to be absent when TRFC are involved.

In that event, Shanks might well prove to be mature enough to make a decision with his head rather than his heart?

I’m hoping he goes nowhere, of course…

[Sir PH]

52 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

I think Shanks will have an eye on cementing his Scotland position and might therefore reckon the stability of staying at Tynecastle until the season ends would better allow him to do that as he’d be playing regular first-team football and scoring goals on a regular basis. 
He might have a different view about staying with Hearts over the summer, but I think he might just want to defer that conversation until then.

It might be interesting if Celtic were to compete for his services and provide that competition that some posters feel tends to be absent when TRFC are involved.

In that event, Shanks might well prove to be mature enough to make a decision with his head rather than his heart?

I’m hoping he goes nowhere, of course…

Would you sign for Hibs before Hearts? 

[whodanny]

7 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

Would you sign for Hibs before Hearts? 

I wouldn't sign for ANY club before The Hearts, especially not your beloved deidco. But that's not the point is it ? 

[upgotheheads]

I wonder how much Shanks is on? Let's say 7K. double it and offer him a further 2 years on his contract. We would get the outlay back in spades.

[Doctor FinnBarr]

25 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

I wonder how much Shanks is on? Let's say 7K. double it and offer him a further 2 years on his contract. We would get the outlay back in spades.

 

Yip