Hearts Loanees 2019-20

[RenfrewHearts]

8 hours ago, buzzbomb said:

Hamilton and Smith weren’t playing. Maybe check your facts first.

 Sums the guy up. Up there with the worst posters on Kickback. 

[Mikey1874]

Connor Smith and Chris Hamilton didn't play for Cowdenbeath in the Cup. As already said. 

 

Not hard to keep track. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Bauld]

We are still 2-3 years away from seeing the first true graduates from the academy overhaul.

 

The overhaul when Levein made a start was in about 2015 I think. The players getting the true benefit from it would be the players ages 12 and younger who will grow up with it. Any older and they will have already been raised the old way to the point where it is stuck with them.

 

That first batch of players will only be getting to about 16 years old now. So it is still a long way from showing whether or not it is going to be a success.

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, Bauld said:

We are still 2-3 years away from seeing the first true graduates from the academy overhaul.

 

The overhaul when Levein made a start was in about 2015 I think. The players getting the true benefit from it would be the players ages 12 and younger who will grow up with it. Any older and they will have already been raised the old way to the point where it is stuck with them.

 

That first batch of players will only be getting to about 16 years old now. So it is still a long way from showing whether or not it is going to be a success.

I'm not convinced that the "overhaul" is making a difference. The age groups at U16, U15 and U14 aren't the strongest, with only one or two in each group looking as if they are better than most of their peers.

 

I see more promise in the younger age groups, i.e. four or five players in each squad who look decent, but it is far too early to say that "Box Soccer" is improving standards for those younger lads. Some have played little if any 11 a side games as yet.

 

The academy has invested heavily in coaching and it's not unusual to see half a dozen or more coaching staff on the touchline at some academy games. Perhaps there is a risk that the kids get mixed messages with so many people involved.

 

Ultimately, it is recruitment of the best youngsters that will pay dividends in the long run, not just coaching, so scouting needs to be given at least equal attention to that given to coaching.

 

I think that the club is content to put out the message that Hearts are investing heavily in the academy and doing things differently. I don't think that is the case, particularly with the with eight "elite" status clubs all looking to make similar improvements in standards. 

[Bauld]

17 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I'm not convinced that the "overhaul" is making a difference. The age groups at U16, U15 and U14 aren't the strongest, with only one or two in each group looking as if they are better than most of their peers.

 

I see more promise in the younger age groups, i.e. four or five players in each squad who look decent, but it is far too early to say that "Box Soccer" is improving standards for those younger lads. Some have played little if any 11 a side games as yet.

 

The academy has invested heavily in coaching and it's not unusual to see half a dozen or more coaching staff on the touchline at some academy games. Perhaps there is a risk that the kids get mixed messages with so many people involved.

 

Ultimately, it is recruitment of the best youngsters that will pay dividends in the long run, not just coaching, so scouting needs to be given at least equal attention to that given to coaching.

 

I think that the club is content to put out the message that Hearts are investing heavily in the academy and doing things differently. I don't think that is the case, particularly with the with eight "elite" status clubs all looking to make similar improvements in standards. 

 

I was told yesterday that the statistics for those who make it to professional level from youth is 1%.

 

So what your telling me is pretty normal.

[allanwilson1970]

20 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I'm not convinced that the "overhaul" is making a difference. The age groups at U16, U15 and U14 aren't the strongest, with only one or two in each group looking as if they are better than most of their peers.

 

I see more promise in the younger age groups, i.e. four or five players in each squad who look decent, but it is far too early to say that "Box Soccer" is improving standards for those younger lads. Some have played little if any 11 a side games as yet.

 

The academy has invested heavily in coaching and it's not unusual to see half a dozen or more coaching staff on the touchline at some academy games. Perhaps there is a risk that the kids get mixed messages with so many people involved.

 

Ultimately, it is recruitment of the best youngsters that will pay dividends in the long run, not just coaching, so scouting needs to be given at least equal attention to that given to coaching.

 

I think that the club is content to put out the message that Hearts are investing heavily in the academy and doing things differently. I don't think that is the case, particularly with the with eight "elite" status clubs all looking to make similar improvements in standards. 

I have to agree, I have watched a lot of our u18s games this season and with the exception of a couple none of them look great. The younger ones who are generally u16 look lost playing up, the u17s in the team apart from Watson are no better than average, the u18s are not good enough, McGill probably the best and I don’t include Hickey, Smith or Stones in that. Watching this team they are nowhere near the level of the McDonalds, Hamilton, Cochrane, Irving, Smith and the rest. This surprises me as I thought we had a conveyor belt coming through or that’s what we were told to believe.  I don’t see enough of the young teams but trust FF to get it right.

[Footballfirst]

2 minutes ago, Bauld said:

I was told yesterday that the statistics for those who make it to professional level from youth is 1%.

 

So what your telling me is pretty normal.

I always question stats like that.

 

It depends on what you call "youth". Does that only refer to those kids linked to premiership clubs or extend to other SPFL, senior / junior clubs or boys clubs.

 

Does "make it to professional level" mean getting a professional contract at youth level, a first team appearance, regular appearances at a professional club, or making a full time career out the game.

 

Hearts maybe has 100 to 120 kids in the CAS age groups. I would hope that more then one out of the current group would make it to a professional level with Hearts or a club of at least similar standing.

 

 

[jr ewing]

Levein himself said 1 in 30 and he is still wrong. Better looking around the lower divisions, used to work and everyone benefits.

[Naisysback]

On 27/10/2019 at 16:18, Jambomb said:

Our youth academy is a myth! Better youngsters in admin/relegation season, totally mismanaged by CL so ended up with little cash for them.

CL made a point of telling how bad our youth was, pushing promising youngsters out without giving proper chance.

all in an attempt to prove he was right and can produce better youth. 
Other than Hickey we won’t see many of these youth players make it at hearts, and Hickey will be away anyway!

Utter rubbish. Are you saying that McDonald, Cochrane, Smith  Irving wont make it......they will, might mot be at Hearts because the style of football doesnt suit any of them but these boys are good, very good. 

 

You are dismissing them based on what....do you watch the reserves, did you watch the league cup group stages, without the young players we wouldn't be in the semis as we would be out.

 

I think the management made a huge mistake putting McDonald  out on loan. He was excellent in pre season, and on Saturday the manager says we lacked quality in the final 3rd....McDonald should have come in when Walker got injured and given a run of games...the boy creates and scores goals. Cochrane should also have been kept  he has the ability to open a game, he passes forward quickly....in fact they provide the quality the manager said we dont have.

 

Hickey is a good player but his performances in the last few games have been average at best,  maybe the whole hype thing is getting to him, happened to Harry. So if he comes out of the team does that mean he wont make it.....

[Jambomb]

4 minutes ago, Naisysback said:

Utter rubbish. Are you saying that McDonald, Cochrane, Smith  Irving wont make it......they will, might mot be at Hearts because the style of football doesnt suit any of them but these boys are good, very good. 

 

You are dismissing them based on what....do you watch the reserves, did you watch the league cup group stages, without the young players we wouldn't be in the semis as we would be out.

 

I think the management made a huge mistake putting McDonald  out on loan. He was excellent in pre season, and on Saturday the manager says we lacked quality in the final 3rd....McDonald should have come in when Walker got injured and given a run of games...the boy creates and scores goals. Cochrane should also have been kept  he has the ability to open a game, he passes forward quickly....in fact they provide the quality the manager said we dont have.

 

Hickey is a good player but his performances in the last few games have been average at best,  maybe the whole hype thing is getting to him, happened to Harry. So if he comes out of the team does that mean he wont make it.....

Key point was ‘make it at Hearts’ 

I think they could make it elsewhere but we’re not managing youth well.
 

I would much rather watch. cochrane, McDonald, smith etc... than the overpaid nobodies we’ve signed like Olli B, Damure, etc.....

it amazes me how many poor games CL have to Jake M, Sean Clare etc... but wouldnt do the same for the youth academy players, who frankly have never really let us down when played.

 

do you think though that they will go on and have better careers than Calum Patterson, Jamie Walker, Sam Nicholson - I’m not so sure!

 

My point was that the CLs heralded youth academy is not any better than previous years, but I’d much rather see them play in team that suits them.
 

 

[Naisysback]

22 minutes ago, Jambomb said:

Key point was ‘make it at Hearts’ 

I think they could make it elsewhere but we’re not managing youth well.
 

I would much rather watch. cochrane, McDonald, smith etc... than the overpaid nobodies we’ve signed like Olli B, Damure, etc.....

it amazes me how many poor games CL have to Jake M, Sean Clare etc... but wouldnt do the same for the youth academy players, who frankly have never really let us down when played.

 

do you think though that they will go on and have better careers than Calum Patterson, Jamie Walker, Sam Nicholson - I’m not so sure!

 

My point was that the CLs heralded youth academy is not any better than previous years, but I’d much rather see them play in team that suits them.
 

 

I actually do think they will have better careers because I think they are better players.  In the league cup McDonald was outstanding against Cowdenbeath,  the managers comments afterwards were, he needs to learn to defend better....that is the problem. James Forrest couldnt tackle a dinner, plays every week, scores and creates, Kent at Rangers...the creativity of these players is being suppressed badly so if they go elsewhere they could be given the chance to flourish.

 

Sam Nicholson went to America at a very very young age, Walker went lower leagues in England  and couldnt get a game, Patterson is now a big target man for Cardiff....so from the 3 Patterson could be classed as a success, the other 2.....hhmmm.

 

The players CL has brought in are in the majority poor, the young players when they played performed 90% of the time. These boys were praised to the hilt and then replaced by bang average older players and thats the crux of it.  Do they have the ability to go to a High level, 100%, are they at the right club to do that 100% not....at the moment.

[JamboAl]

Is this a thread about the merits, or otherwise, of the Academy or is it about the progress of our (mainly) young players currently out on loan?

[pattythejambo]

39 minutes ago, Naisysback said:

Utter rubbish. Are you saying that McDonald, Cochrane, Smith  Irving wont make it......they will, might mot be at Hearts because the style of football doesnt suit any of them but these boys are good, very good. 

 

You are dismissing them based on what....do you watch the reserves, did you watch the league cup group stages, without the young players we wouldn't be in the semis as we would be out.

 

I think the management made a huge mistake putting McDonald  out on loan. He was excellent in pre season, and on Saturday the manager says we lacked quality in the final 3rd....McDonald should have come in when Walker got injured and given a run of games...the boy creates and scores goals. Cochrane should also have been kept  he has the ability to open a game, he passes forward quickly....in fact they provide the quality the manager said we dont have.

 

Hickey is a good player but his performances in the last few games have been average at best,  maybe the whole hype thing is getting to him, happened to Harry. So if he comes out of the team does that mean he wont make it.....

 

Style of play doesn’t suit them !

 

did a kid not say that a couple of months ago as the reason he left the club and there were some on here wishing him a

“snapped leg”and saying he was talking rubbish now we are realising he might have been right and it is looking like we are wasting the talent we were all so excited about due to style of play.

 

[Naisysback]

3 minutes ago, pattythejambo said:

 

Style of play doesn’t suit them !

 

did a kid not say that a couple of months ago as the reason he left the club and there were some on here wishing him a

“snapped leg”and saying he was talking rubbish now we are realising he might have been right and it is looking like we are wasting the talent we were all so excited about due to style of play.

 

Most of the good young players we have came through the SFA Performance Schools. They were taught how to play with both feet,movement, control, touch,passing....the tactical side of the game is where the clubs came in.  We now have players who struggle with the basics yet we still wont put the young talent in and ket them flourish, working well for Lampard at Chelsea!!!

 

Other than Naismith, there ismt a single forward thinking player who could be classed as a success, who excites the fans.....dont create enough, dont score enough yet same players play every week.....same players, same tactic equals same result....thats why we are where we are.....

[NB GIN]

On 27/10/2019 at 16:18, Jambomb said:

Our youth academy is a myth! Better youngsters in admin/relegation season, totally mismanaged by CL so ended up with little cash for them.

CL made a point of telling how bad our youth was, pushing promising youngsters out without giving proper chance.

all in an attempt to prove he was right and can produce better youth. 
Other than Hickey we won’t see many of these youth players make it at hearts, and Hickey will be away anyway!

Levein is a total imposter in every way he is taking the Michael out of this club 

Did I hear right he is on 250,000 per year ? 

[Lfhearts]

Nailed it Naisyback. Come on academy lovers let's have it.

[Footballfirst]

5 minutes ago, NB GIN said:

Levein is a total imposter in every way he is taking the Michael out of this club 

Did I hear right he is on 250,000 per year ? 

 

You heard wrong.

[NB GIN]

Just now, Footballfirst said:

 

You heard wrong.

I hope so what is he on ? 

[John mcCartney]

enough to make one weep with that git in charge sucking the fecking life out of Harr`y and Ant`s footballing lives.
Il bet they have prob said some home truths when in the same room as Lescream,and hes noted it all down at some point.

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, NB GIN said:

I hope so what is he on ? 

£141k in 2017/18.  We will have to wait until the accounts come out next month to find out what he earned last season.

[pattythejambo]

12 minutes ago, Naisysback said:

Most of the good young players we have came through the SFA Performance Schools. They were taught how to play with both feet,movement, control, touch,passing....the tactical side of the game is where the clubs came in.  We now have players who struggle with the basics yet we still wont put the young talent in and ket them flourish, working well for Lampard at Chelsea!!!

 

Other than Naismith, there ismt a single forward thinking player who could be classed as a success, who excites the fans.....dont create enough, dont score enough yet same players play every week.....same players, same tactic equals same result....thats why we are where we are.....

 

Spot on but from my memory both Harry and Anthony we’re forward thinking players until the manager got his hands on them,  we all know when you step up you need to add to your game, but don’t stifle the thing that got them there in the first place.

[Footballfirst]

I believe that the reserves have a bounce game against Motherwell tomorrow at Riccarton, k.o. at 1:30pm.

 

We may see a few of the loanees play along with some of the crocks.

[Pasquale for King]

On 27/10/2019 at 16:18, Jambomb said:

Our youth academy is a myth! Better youngsters in admin/relegation season, totally mismanaged by CL so ended up with little cash for them.

CL made a point of telling how bad our youth was, pushing promising youngsters out without giving proper chance.

all in an attempt to prove he was right and can produce better youth. 
Other than Hickey we won’t see many of these youth players make it at hearts, and Hickey will be away anyway!

Another Levein lie/myth.
A third of any fee going to Celtic too, if he’s sold in January to an English club he will be classed as a home grown player.

[Pasquale for King]

49 minutes ago, Naisysback said:

Most of the good young players we have came through the SFA Performance Schools. They were taught how to play with both feet,movement, control, touch,passing....the tactical side of the game is where the clubs came in.  We now have players who struggle with the basics yet we still wont put the young talent in and ket them flourish, working well for Lampard at Chelsea!!!

 

Other than Naismith, there ismt a single forward thinking player who could be classed as a success, who excites the fans.....dont create enough, dont score enough yet same players play every week.....same players, same tactic equals same result....thats why we are where we are.....

Great post.

[RobboM]

Latest update on Hearts loanees and what an underwhelming read it is
https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/loan-watch-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19

Of 13 loan players, 2 not involved in their respective squads (presumably through injury?)
Only Chris Hamilton and Connor Smith at Cowdenbeath and Dean Ritchie at Lowland League Cumbernauld Colts started their matches, all on the losing side.

Olly Lee sub played 23 minutes for Gillingham who lost

Rory Currie sub played 11 minutes for Forfar Ath who lost

Bobby Burns (Newcastle Jets), Harry Cochrane (Dunfermline Athletic), Lewis Moore (Falkirk), Kelby Mason (Annan Athletic) and Dan Baur (Bonnyrigg Rose) were unused substitutes and Leroy Makavora(Spartans) unused sub on Saturday but played midweek.

[Lfhearts]

A load of subs there, oh well no use for recall in relegation battle that lot, onto Plan B.......

[Mikey1874]

Leeroy Makovora was suspended on Saturday. Could play in Cup game but has another 2 match league ban now after second red card, both a bit innocuous being 2nd yellows for a dive which everyone at ground thought was a penalty and then arguing with opposition players after full time whistle. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Mikey1874

[RobboM]

Very thin pickings again for the Hearts Loanees this past weekend

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/loan-watch-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20

[soonbe110]

On 28/10/2019 at 20:40, Pasquale for King said:

Another Levein lie/myth.
A third of any fee going to Celtic too, if he’s sold in January to an English club he will be classed as a home grown player.

Will def be sold in Jan. probably loaned back though. Good business. Leon Watson already looking like a great replacement next summer. 

[Mikey1874]

Daniel Baur played for Bonnyrigg last night it was reported. 

 

Connor Smith plays for Cowdenbeath. 

 

Not playing today are Cochrane, McDonald, Hamilton, Currie, Makovora. 

[gashauskis9]

16 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Daniel Baur played for Bonnyrigg last night it was reported. 

 

Connor Smith plays for Cowdenbeath. 

 

Not playing today are Cochrane, McDonald, Hamilton, Currie, Makovora. 

Have any of these players played in the Scottish Cup this season?

Edited January 4, 2020 by Gashauskis9

[Mikey1874]

9 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Have any of these players played in the Scottish Cup this season?

 

Cochrane, McDonald, Hamilton, Smith haven't played.

 

Not sure about the others. 

[gashauskis9]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Cochrane, McDonald, Hamilton, Smith haven't played.

 

Not sure about the others. 

Good stuff.  Would quite like to see McDonald and Smith (and possibly Cochrane) involved against Airdrie.

[Flimsy]

29 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Daniel Baur played for Bonnyrigg last night it was reported. 

 

Connor Smith plays for Cowdenbeath. 

 

Not playing today are Cochrane, McDonald, Hamilton, Currie, Makovora. 

Does anyone know if any of the latter five players have been recalled to Hearts?

[Lfhearts]

I would not bother with any of them meantime, Connor Smith has scored.

[Mikey1874]

Connor Smith has scored for Cowdenbeath btw.

[gashauskis9]

15 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Connor Smith has scored for Cowdenbeath btw.

And big Nads sent off!

[upgotheheads]

neither Cochrane or McDonald involved for Dunfermline today, is that because their loans are finished?

[comradejambo]

Got a text from a mate who is a Clyde fan. Petkov is being recalled from his loan. Seems he might be given a chance to show what he’s made of. His last game for Clyde will be today! 

Edited January 4, 2020 by comradejambo

[upgotheheads]

30 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Connor Smith has scored for Cowdenbeath btw.

 

15 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

And big Nads sent off!

 

Smith from a Frazer Mullen assist.

[Zaba]

Connor Smith now sent off.

[Mikey1874]

13 minutes ago, Zaba said:

Connor Smith now sent off.

 

No, wasn't sent off.

 

Man of the match though. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Mikey1874

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, upgotheheads said:

neither Cochrane or McDonald involved for Dunfermline today, is that because their loans are finished?

Don’t think either of them getting much game time for the Pars so if they can’t hack it in that league I can’t see them getting many games with us.  
 

I heard that both are being recalled by Hearts next week though.

[Zaba]

48 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

No, wasn't sent off.

 

Man of the match though. 

Apologies, just checked and you are correct.

 

It definitely came up on the BBC vidiprinter though. Obviously a mistake.

 

Got high hopes for this lad.

[JamboAl]

9 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Don’t think either of them getting much game time for the Pars so if they can’t hack it in that league I can’t see them getting many games with us.  
 

I heard that both are being recalled by Hearts next week though.

I thought all youth loanees were being recalled during the for DS to assess them.

Edited January 4, 2020 by JamboAl

[jamboinglasgow]

9 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Don’t think either of them getting much game time for the Pars so if they can’t hack it in that league I can’t see them getting many games with us.  
 

I heard that both are being recalled by Hearts next week though.

 

Cochrane had been starting regularly recently and McDonald has been injured for most of his spell, had just come back a few weeks back.

[Mikey1874]

21 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Don’t think either of them getting much game time for the Pars so if they can’t hack it in that league I can’t see them getting many games with us.  
 

I heard that both are being recalled by Hearts next week though.

 

Dunfermline have just signed a young Scotland U19 international midfielder Nathan Ross on loan from Aberdeen. Played today. 

[upgotheheads]

2 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Don’t think either of them getting much game time for the Pars so if they can’t hack it in that league I can’t see them getting many games with us.  
 

I heard that both are being recalled by Hearts next week though.

 

Might be that Dunfermline want to concentrate on players that they know will stay with them for the season.

[Tommy Brown]

3 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Cochrane had been starting regularly recently and McDonald has been injured for most of his spell, had just come back a few weeks back.

 

Cochrane has started one game recently (v Dundee) and was hooked  at 1-4 after 47 minutes.

They went down to 10 men and got back to 3-4 without him.

 

he is generally unused sub.

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

Cochrane has started one game recently (v Dundee) and was hooked  at 1-4 after 47 minutes.

They went down to 10 men and got back to 3-4 without him.

 

he is generally unused sub.

He’s still not bulked out apparently and too easily bullied.  Nothing’s changed from what I’m hearing at Pars.

 

McDonald, on the other hand has been injured most of the time.  He was actually already injured when he arrived at Dunfermline but our medical staff didn’t realise but their’s picked up on it.  Anyone surprised by that?