End of season Craig Levein poll

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, JamboAl said:

We can overlook everything if it works.

All we had was Wighton and McLean.  Who would you have had and at what cost?

 

Yeah, an old man who mostly scores against low level opposition and an imposter of a football player that’s cost us over £400k already. 

For free Danny Johnson,Sam Cosgrove,Kenny Miller (I know), Shankland £150k, off the top of my head. There are loads of players going around in our price range. I’m sure we could’ve had a choice of a few on loan too, not that I necessarily trust them to pick a good one. Here’s a hundred for this season.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/spieler/vertragslosespieler/statistik/1/plus//galerie/0?ausrichtung=Sturm&spielerposition_id=alle&land_id=alle&altersklasse=&wettbewerb_id=alle&seit=alle&yt0=Show

Edited June 7, 2019 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Jammy T said:

 

To be fair to you I think Levein actually admitted after one game we lost when we had most of our injuries that he realised after the game he probably hadn’t had enough faith in the players he had at his disposal and wrongly played more conservatively than we should have - with hindsight.

 

I’m sure someone will have it in a scrapbook.

 

He also admitted - in a different interview- that it was his responsibility during the injuries spell to find a way of getting through it but he hadn’t managed to - explaining that we had spent the whole pre-season setting up to play in the way that saw our unbeaten start and that having done that it was difficult to start playing a different way part way through a season.

He did say that but until we were getting beat from Raith Rovers he was playing 3 at the back, then moved Haring forward, a good move. Teams change the way they play all the time, we did in the final and it nearly worked. Man of many excuses.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Pasquale for King

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

He did say that but until we were getting beat from Raith Rovers he was playing 3 at the back, then moved Haring forward, a good move. Teams change the way they play all the time, we did in the final and it nearly worked. Man of many excuses.

 

It’s no mystery what happened last season.

 

We lost our cutting edge when our two most dangerous attackers got injured. At about the same time we became easier to beat after our two best defenders also got injured.

 

Add to that quite serious injuries to Haring, Morrison, Mitchell, Godhino, Cochrane, Keena, Smith... even our back up backups got injured last season.

 

There are no excuses there just facts. 

 

Should we have had players of the quality of naismith, uche, berra and souttar sitting on the bench ready to play instead. Sure would be great, but meanwhile in the real world...

Edited June 7, 2019 by Guest

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah, an old man who mostly scores against low level opposition and an imposter of a football player that’s cost us over £400k already. 

For free Danny Johnson,Sam Cosgrove,Kenny Miller (I know), Shankland £150k, off the top of my head. There are loads of players going around in our price range. I’m sure we could’ve had a choice of a few on loan too, not that I necessarily trust them to pick a good one. Here’s a hundred for this season.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/spieler/vertragslosespieler/statistik/1/plus//galerie/0?ausrichtung=Sturm&spielerposition_id=alle&land_id=alle&altersklasse=&wettbewerb_id=alle&seit=alle&yt0=Show

 

Where’s the “buy now” button? Signing players looks easy.

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It’s no mystery what happened last season.

 

We lost our cutting edge when our two most dangerous attackers got injured. At about the same time we became easier to beat after our two best defenders also got injured.

 

Add to that quite serious injuries to Haring, Morrison, Mitchell, Godhino, Cochrane, Keena, Smith... even our back up backups got injured last season.

 

There are no excuses there just facts. 

 

Should we have had players of the quality of naismith, uche, berra and souttar sitting on the bench ready to play instead. Sure would be great, but meanwhile in the real world...

Other teams had i juries to important players too, they coped better. That’s a fact.

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Where’s the “buy now” button? Signing players looks easy.

Yet unlike everyone else we can’t do it properly? 20 players, 4 quality.

[Guest]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Other teams had i juries to important players too, they coped better. That’s a fact.

 

Christ on a bike. No other team had so many injuries to so many key players, never mind backups, at the same time! Whats wrong with you?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yet unlike everyone else we can’t do it properly? 20 players, 4 quality.

 

Ffs. In your opinion. Never known a Hearts fan so down on his own team. Bizarre to be so dedicated to talking down your own club. Like taking the piss out a of a friend all the time - who does that? Weirdo, or should I say atypical football “supporter”.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Guest

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Christ on a bike. No other team had so many injuries to so many key players, never mind backups, at the same time! Whats wrong with you?

Yes they did, it’s been discussed to death I’m afraid and you’re wrong. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yes they did, it’s been discussed to death I’m afraid and you’re wrong. 

 

None of Aberdeen, Hibs, Killie and Rangers had their 4 best, most influential and irreplaceable players (including 3 captains no less - the captain, backuo and backuo to the backup) out at the same ****ing time.

 

Do one Hibby troll (just my opinion).

Edited June 7, 2019 by Guest

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Ffs. In your opinion. Never known a Hearts fan so down on his own team. Bizarre to be so dedicated to talking down your own club. Like taking the piss out a of a friend all the time - who does that? Weirdo.

Truth hurts eh. Not all the time, been on other threads being extremely positive etc but on this one surprisingly enough seeing as I want Levein out I’m negative. Although saying that I’ve been talking about how well we can do next session and how we should play, in my opinion. As for said before, put me on ignore.

[Pasquale for King]

25 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

None of Aberdeen, Hibs, Killie and Rangers had their 4 best, most influential and irreplaceable players (including 3 captains no less - the captain, backuo and backuo to the backup) out at the same ****ing time.

 

Do one Hibby troll (just my opinion).

You said ANY TEAM. Celtic had Édouard, Brown, Lustig, Simunovic, Griffiths and Tierney out as well as countless others. They were missing 14 players when we played them on the last day of the season.Aberdeen had GMS, McGinn, Devlin out. Rangers had Murphy, Dorrans and Morelia suspended for 15 games last season. We had of our most important players out for 6 weeks from the semi final to the 22nd of December. As for being a Hibee troll GFY.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Pasquale for King

[Bridge of Djoum]

5 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Berra may not start next season and Uche will be fit and raring to go.

 

inchis right: we should be hitting the ground running.

Agreed. 

 

 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yes they did. Celtic had Édouard, Brown, Lustig, Simunovic, Griffiths and Tierney out as well as countless others. They were missing 14 players when we played them on the last day of the season.Aberdeen had GMS, McGinn, Devlin out. Rangers had Murphy, Dorrans and Morelia suspended for 15 games last season. We had of our most important players out for 6 weeks from the semi final to the 22nd of December.

 

OK, let's not compare our resources to Celtic's thanks, or Rangers for that matter but even including Rangers. Since when were Murphy, Dorrans and Morelia (never heard of him) major players for them? 

 

So we're looking at our rivals for 2nd/Europe. Since when was Devlin a major player for Aberdeen, so they had two. How long were GMS (frequently injured anyhow) and McGinn (not the force he was by the way) out and was it at the same time.

 

And Hibs? And Killie?

 

You're on the wind-up. For a start none of Hibs, Killie and Aberdeen even have a player of the calibre of Naismith, or Berra and Souttar in defence for that matter, on their books at all! He was the signing of the season last season.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Guest

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

OK, let's not compare our resources to Celtic's thanks, or Rangers for that matter but even including Rangers. Since when were Murphy, Dorrans and Morelia (never heard of him) major players for them? 

 

So we're looking at our rivals for 2nd/Europe. Since when was Devlin a major player for Aberdeen, so they had two. How long were they out and was it at the same time.

 

And Hibs? And Killie?

 

You're on the wind-up. For a start none of Hibs, Killie and Aberdeen even have a player of the calibre of Naismith, or Berra and Souttar in defence for that matter, on their books at all! He was the signing of the season last season.

Devlin will play tomorrow ahead of Souttar. GMS McGinn not as important as Berra and Souttar? Hibs had Whittaker, Gray, Hanlon and Macgregor our at the same time, then lost Ambrose and Boyle. Killie lost Stewart,Brophy, Frizzell and Scott Boyd in a squad of 22.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Devlin will play tomorrow ahead of Souttar. GMS McGinn not as important as Berra and Souttar? Hibs had Whittaker, Gray, Hanlon and Macgregor our at the same time, then lost Ambrose and Boyle. Killie lost Stewart,Brophy, Frizzell and Scott Boyd in a squad of 22.

 

Devlin has 20 games for Aberdeen and was at Hamilton a year or so ago! How on earth does that make him a key player? It's like saying Halkett is a key player for us. Souttar before injury was the best young footballing CD in the country, including McKenna.

 

None of the players listed are as important, expensive and irreplaceable as Naismith, Uche, Berra and Souttar. Not one. And all of those players were not all out at the same timer as long. You're utterly deluded in your hatred of Levein.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Guest

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

None of the players listed are as important, expensive and irreplaceable as Naismith, Uche, Berra and Souttar. Not one. And all of those players were not all out at the same timer as long. You're utterly deluded in your hatred of Levein.

We lost all four of those players at the same time for four weeks, that’s a fact now go away and do some homework. 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

Perhaps we could have taken that kind of risk earlier in the season.  Hickey played two games before the final also.  He added to it of course but it was in main how we set up that gave us such joy in while against Celtic in the final.  Unfortunately despite not having Naisy, we set up alternatively for half the season before the final and it was piss poor.  Craig has the massive chance, probably the final chance of his managerial career to build on the final now though and Al, there’s no excuses left. 

2

Did you suggest that at the time?

Injuries were not an excuse except in your mind.  They were a reason

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

We lost all four of those players at the same time for four weeks, that’s a fact now go away and do some homework. 

 

Our entire first choice CD and first choice strike force were out for a lot longer than 4 weeks FFS! No other team had their two first choice Cds and strikers out at the same time. You mentioned Celtic. Who was their backup for Griffiths and Eduard? No-one and they didn't need one because they weren't both out at the same time. 

 

Would Aberdeen have been 4th without Cosgrove's goals? Or Hibs 5th without Mallan's set pieces? Or Rangers without Morellos goals? Wise-up. No other teams lost their best players - not just best players but best combinations of players and most influential players - captains no less.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Guest

[Bridge of Djoum]

PFK having a mare here. 

[TyphoonJambo]

7 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Our entire first choice CD and first choice strike force were out for a lot longer than 4 weeks FFS! No other team had their two first choice Cds and strikers out at the same time. You mentioned Celtic. Who was their backup for Griffiths and Eduard? No-one and they didn't need one because they weren't both out at the same time. 

 

Would Aberdeen have been 4th without Cosgrove's goals? Or Hibs 5th without Mallan's set pieces? Or Rangers without Morellos goals? Wise-up. No other teams lost their best players - not just best players but best combinations of players and most influential players - captains no less.

great post

[Vlad Magic]

There is a distinct whiff of the Sergeys on the forum at present.

 

Place needs a right good clean.

 

 

[JamboAl]

34 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

You said ANY TEAM. Celtic had Édouard, Brown, Lustig, Simunovic, Griffiths and Tierney out as well as countless others. They were missing 14 players when we played them on the last day of the season.Aberdeen had GMS, McGinn, Devlin out. Rangers had Murphy, Dorrans and Morelia suspended for 15 games last season. We had of our most important players out for 6 weeks from the semi final to the 22nd of December. As for being a Hibee troll GFY.

3

This must be one of the reasons we are failing.  We only have 11 players in our recognised 1st XI while Celtic have at least 14.

[Bridge of Djoum]

''Missing 14 players''.

 

All injured, aye? All key players, aye? All regular starters, aye?

 

 

Missing and rested are completely different arguments.

[Bridge of Djoum]

3 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

This must be one of the reasons we are failing.  We only have 11 players in our recognised 1st XI while Celtic have at least 14.

Will the SFA never tire of helping those ********?

 

14v11. Chance ye goat?

[JamboGraham]

I appreciate there that there are a lot of views on the impact of the injuries last season and for what its worth I really believe that we should have responded better. That said though up to the split Hearts players (who played got first team game time in the season) were unavailable for selection in 141 matches, Hibs were 128 matches, Aberdeen 71 and Killie just 15.

 

Another interesting factor is that half of our missed matches total was clocked by 7 players who played in every other league match they were available for (up to the split).

 

Its not an excuse but I do think it presents some level of explanation as to why Kilmarnock were able to perform just quite as well as they did compared to Aberdeen. I think it also goes part of the way to explaining why us and Hibs ended up with such disappointing season end figures.

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by JamboGraham

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

''Missing 14 players''.

 

All injured, aye? All key players, aye? All regular starters, aye?

 

 

Missing and rested are completely different arguments.

 

He even included players who left. So I guess we can include Lafferty in our list.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Will the SFA never tire of helping those ********?

 

14v11. Chance ye goat?

 

15. Don't forget the ref.

[Bridge of Djoum]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

He even included players who left. So I guess we can include Lafferty in our list.

What about George Cowie?

[Jammy T]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

He did say that but until we were getting beat from Raith Rovers he was playing 3 at the back, then moved Haring forward, a good move. Teams change the way they play all the time, we did in the final and it nearly worked. Man of many excuses.

 

To be fair for the final we spent 5 weeks working towards that one game - so in that time you can change it.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

What about George Cowie?

 

Permtastic.

[Pasquale for King]

56 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

 

To be fair for the final we spent 5 weeks working towards that one game - so in that time you can change it.

Yeah and we spent five months changing formations and teams and still could barely win a game.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

7 hours ago, Ugly American said:

 

Okay, maybe I missed it and you've already responded, but here's the argument in very simple form.

 

- We dropped 5 points total before Halloween.

- We played better than the champs in the cup final

- The reason we fell off our form is because we had injuries to five very difficult to replace players

- We will be more resilient next season because the young players will be a year older and we will be signing to spot-fill in the summer rather than to nearly replace a team wholesale, as we were the previous summer

- Regardless, any league run would require getting lucky with injuries, obviously.

 

Additionally:

 

- Celtic are pulling back on spending and have Lennon, a much weaker manager than Rodgers, at the helm

- Rangers have shown little sign of -2being willing to splash the cash to try to close the gap

 

When I say we have a chance I mean there's maybe a 15-20% chance to win the league, which is higher than normal.

15-20% chance? Do you see the bookies offering odds of somewhere between 5/1 and 10/1 on us winning the league?

 

The bookies are rarely wrong.

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, JamboGraham said:

I appreciate there that there are a lot of views on the impact of the injuries last season and for what its worth I really believe that we should have responded better. That said though up to the split Hearts players (who played got first team game time in the season) were unavailable for selection in 141 matches, Hibs were 128 matches, Aberdeen 71 and Killie just 15.

 

Another interesting factor is that half of our missed matches total was clocked by 7 players who played in every other league match they were available for (up to the split).

 

Its not an excuse but I do think it presents some level of explanation as to why Kilmarnock were able to perform just quite as well as they did compared to Aberdeen. I think it also goes part of the way to explaining why us and Hibs ended up with such disappointing season end figures.

 

 

 

It’s a good point, Killie lost 4 important players in the 2nd half of the season out of a squad of 22.  We then could go on a discuss why every outfield player we’ve had in the last two seasons have missed games at some point.

[Bridge of Djoum]

Any chance now that Mr Levein is all but confirmed as manager next season we can just all accept it and get behind him and the team? Threads pretty much done, purpose served. Opinion is split, as we knew it would be. ***** bumping their gums about last season are getting tiresome. 

 

Even I'm 50/50 about him staying, but if he is he has my full backing. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Our entire first choice CD and first choice strike force were out for a lot longer than 4 weeks FFS! No other team had their two first choice Cds and strikers out at the same time. You mentioned Celtic. Who was their backup for Griffiths and Eduard? No-one and they didn't need one because they weren't both out at the same time. 

 

Would Aberdeen have been 4th without Cosgrove's goals? Or Hibs 5th without Mallan's set pieces? Or Rangers without Morellos goals? Wise-up. No other teams lost their best players - not just best players but best combinations of players and most influential players - captains no less.

From when Naismith went down at  Murrayfield on 28/10 until Berra started against Rangers on December 2nd was the exact amount of time we were without all four, 36 days in total. Griffiths and Édouard were both our at the same time.

[JamboGraham]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

It’s a good point, Killie lost 4 important players in the 2nd half of the season out of a squad of 22.  We then could go on a discuss why every outfield player we’ve had in the last two seasons have missed games at some point.

 

Not sure how squad is defined but up to the split Killie gave first team game time to 29 players. In the same period Aberdeen used 26, we used 31 and Hibs 35 players.

 

For the 2nd half of the season Killie had players unavailable for 26 matches due to injury, we were 70 in the same period.

 

Assume you must be including Birmingham recalling Stewart in your count of 4? With Boyd (10 matches), Jones (6 matches) and Brophy (5 matches) being the others?

 

 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah and we spent five months changing formations and teams and still could barely win a game.

With 14 1st team players injured Celtic would probably have tried even more formations and they won the league.

[Pasquale for King]

39 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Not sure how squad is defined but up to the split Killie gave first team game time to 29 players. In the same period Aberdeen used 26, we used 31 and Hibs 35 players.

 

For the 2nd half of the season Killie had players unavailable for 26 matches due to injury, we were 70 in the same period.

 

Assume you must be including Birmingham recalling Stewart in your count of 4? With Boyd (10 matches), Jones (6 matches) and Brophy (5 matches) being the others?

 

 

Some guy called Adam Frizzell too, just going by what I could find on the Internet. Stewart was a big loss but Mulumba helped.

[Pasquale for King]

48 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

With 14 1st team players injured Celtic would probably have tried even more formations and they won the league.

You show an ignorance there, Celtic played one formation in the majority of Rodgers games, 433 and 4231 under Lennon. They succeeded, we didn’t.

 https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-squad-revealed-james-forrest-13957904

[Bridge of Djoum]

11 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

You show an ignorance there, Celtic played one formation in the majority of Rodgers games, 433 and 4231 under Lennon. They succeeded, we didn’t.

 https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-squad-revealed-james-forrest-13957904

Nothing to do with the significant gulf in player quality and finances.

 

You've had bad days on here.. this is right up there.

[Pasquale for King]

15 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Nothing to do with the significant gulf in player quality and finances.

 

You've had bad days on here.. this is right up there.

You would know about that right enough, the point was you geniuses said they didn’t have them. He also was talking about successful formations. Their resources played a part, did I say they didn’t. Probably shouldn’t have even looked at what you said, lesson learnt.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Not sure how squad is defined but up to the split Killie gave first team game time to 29 players. In the same period Aberdeen used 26, we used 31 and Hibs 35 players.

 

For the 2nd half of the season Killie had players unavailable for 26 matches due to injury, we were 70 in the same period.

 

Assume you must be including Birmingham recalling Stewart in your count of 4? With Boyd (10 matches), Jones (6 matches) and Brophy (5 matches) being the others?

 

 

14 of the 30 players Killie used played less than ten games, quite a few due to injury it seems. Where are you getting the stats from, it looks like a good source.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

6 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

15-20% chance? Do you see the bookies offering odds of somewhere between 5/1 and 10/1 on us winning the league?

 

The bookies are rarely wrong.

 

Bookies don't set the line for where they think the odds are. They set the line to balance the action for and against.

 

Out of the 25-some bookies oddschecker.com tracks, only three have set a line yet. All three have Hearts at 100/1 but that's currently with Naismith un-signed and no additions in the offseason yet, and neither Celtic nor Rangers have yet sold any of their high priced assets. Almost no one is going to pick up that bet right now so might as well have long odds on it to try to generate some action.

 

If we have a good close season I expect our odds to move closer to Aberdeen's. 

[Nookie Bear]

8 hours ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Any chance now that Mr Levein is all but confirmed as manager next season we can just all accept it and get behind him and the team? Threads pretty much done, purpose served. Opinion is split, as we knew it would be. ***** bumping their gums about last season are getting tiresome. 

 

Even I'm 50/50 about him staying, but if he is he has my full backing. 

 

I have accepted he will be here for at least one more season. Not my choice but I’m not calling the shots. 

 

Which is why we need to focus on what we can achieve and I have set my case as to why we should be aiming high. Personally I don’t think 4th is anywhere like ambitious enough. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 hours ago, Ugly American said:

 

Bookies don't set the line for where they think the odds are. They set the line to balance the action for and against.

 

Out of the 25-some bookies oddschecker.com tracks, only three have set a line yet. All three have Hearts at 100/1 but that's currently with Naismith un-signed and no additions in the offseason yet, and neither Celtic nor Rangers have yet sold any of their high priced assets. Almost no one is going to pick up that bet right now so might as well have long odds on it to try to generate some action.

 

If we have a good close season I expect our odds to move closer to Aberdeen's. 

Of course. I'll leave you to keep thinking that.

[Bull's-eye]

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

I have accepted he will be here for at least one more season. Not my choice but I’m not calling the shots. 

 

Which is why we need to focus on what we can achieve and I have set my case as to why we should be aiming high. Personally I don’t think 4th is anywhere like ambitious enough. 

 

So you don't want Mr Levein in charge but you do want to sit on your high Horse demanding a title chase.

 

?????   

[Sid]

21 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Of course. I'll leave you to keep thinking that.

 

Geoff

Think you are wanted on the Season Tickets sales thread. 

[Nookie Bear]

17 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said:

 

So you don't want Mr Levein in charge but you do want to sit on your high Horse demanding a title chase.

 

?????   

 

Correct-omundo. 

 

My opinion counts for nothing. Ann believes he is the right man. 

 

We were immense before the injuries so I expect a good campaign, if we can steer clear of the major injuries to key players. 

 

I am surprised more people are not buying into this tbh

[JamboAl]

8 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

You show an ignorance there, Celtic played one formation in the majority of Rodgers games, 433 and 4231 under Lennon. They succeeded, we didn’t.

 https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-squad-revealed-james-forrest-13957904

You show an ignorance with 14 players in a first XI.

Joke of the year!