Levein In!

[Bazzas right boot]

41 minutes ago, Rooster20 said:

Levein has many faults but the players genuinely seem to like him and want to play for him. For this reason I am prepared to give hom another season but top 4 is a MUST for next year.

 

 

This is key to my thinking atm. 

 

Many "change the manager and see who applies" type posters totally dismissing the importance of this. 

[Phil Dunphy]

13 hours ago, Vlad Magic said:

 

Only a complete idiot would fail to see the point I was making.

 

You stepped up to the plate.

 

 

 

No need for you to get upset. 

 

You asked me to make some managers and I did. Then you started moving the goalposts because your point was ****ing stupid. 

 

Stones and glass houses mate. 

 

13 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

2/9/18 after interim manager for six days. Hartley before that from Betfred onwards to end of August. Then they poached McKinnon behind Morton’s backs. 

 

Perhaps changing their manager again would’ve seen them escape relegation. Maybe not. 

 

Changing manager helped Queens survive. Not changing manager in time did not help Berwick. 

[Phil Dunphy]

40 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

This is key to my thinking atm. 

 

Many "change the manager and see who applies" type posters totally dismissing the importance of this. 

 

Top 4 was a MUST in 2017. 

 

Top 4 was a MUST in 2018. 

 

Top 4 was a MUST in 2019. 

 

Did we achieve top 4 in any of those seasons?

 

 

[JamboAl]

12 hours ago, HMFC 86 said:

 

Questions questions questions, are you JiH in disguise?

Is that a question mark I see at the end of your post????

[Gizmo]

51 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Don’t ever tell me what to do ok. I will do what a please when you when I please and there’s nothing you or any of you deluded fan boys and girls can do about it. You can now join your pals on ignore ????.

What an absolutely tragic response. 
 

[JamboAl]

58 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Don’t ever tell me what to do ok. I will do what a please when you when I please and there’s nothing you or any of you deluded fan boys and girls can do about it. You can now join your pals on ignore ????.

2

1

I'll bet that's got him worried now lol

Edited May 28, 2019 by JamboAl

[Morph]

12 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

We’ll sign 4 quality players.

We’ll sign Naisy.

We’ve got quality youths coming through. 

We won’t be as badly affected by injuries.

Current squad are more experienced and will improve. 

And....

We can’t get any worse.

 

We will be much better next season without a doubt. 

Can't get any worse but give him more time  

[Bazzas right boot]

17 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Top 4 was a MUST in 2017. 

 

Top 4 was a MUST in 2018. 

 

Top 4 was a MUST in 2019. 

 

Did we achieve top 4 in any of those seasons?

 

 

 

 

Maybe it was because we kept changing managers and rebuilt every season. 

 

Ever stopped to think about that? 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

You can't honestly believe it's that simple. 

 

 

What if every team and player does it? 

 

How does that work??

 

Simple does not quite cover it. 

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

This is key to my thinking atm. 

 

Many "change the manager and see who applies" type posters totally dismissing the importance of this. 

Did Killie expect to get Steve Clarke?

[Boab]

28 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Top 4 was a MUST in 2017. 

 

Top 4 was a MUST in 2018. 

 

Top 4 was a MUST in 2019. 

 

Did we achieve top 4 in any of those seasons?

 

 

 This is the club’s get out of jail card though. It’s the interpretation. If they say that is the TARGET, then if it’s not achieved then what ?

I would imagine there will be a similar statement to that effect at the start of the coming season.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, Boab said:

 This is the club’s get out of jail card though. It’s the interpretation. If they say that is the TARGET, then if it’s not achieved then what ?

I would imagine there will be a similar statement to that effect at the start of the coming season.

A Budge epistle with lots of misplaced ellipses and quotation marks must be imminent.

 

Meantime, it seems that mediocrity is still accepted on Kickback.

[Jambof3tornado]

If Levein was always the best man for the job why the **** did we have to suffer cathro?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, Jambof3tornado said:

If Levein was always the best man for the job why the **** did we have to suffer cathro?

Because it needed a lightbulb moment that took over 3 years to formulate, apparently.

[Nookie Bear]

20 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

Maybe it was because we kept changing managers and rebuilt every season. 

 

Ever stopped to think about that? 

 

 

 

We had a Director of Football whose tasks include ensuring continuity when a Head Coach leaves. 

[Bazzas right boot]

Clarke gets used a lot. 

 

5th, 4th then pissed off. 

Like Tommy Wright, but without the loyalty or ambition(depends on how you view it) 

 

Most CL out folk use Clarke as the yard stick. 

Hindsight is wonderful. 

 

I think Robbie outdone Clarke as well in his first 2.5 seasons with us, but certain posters hailing Clarke wanted Robbie gone. 

Strange. 

 

 

 

Anyway, Craig I reckon is staying. 

 

You have a choice - support the gaffer and team, moan like a bitch all pre season. 

 

 

 

 

[CAI]

1 hour ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

Clarke gets used a lot. 

 

5th, 4th then pissed off. 

Like Tommy Wright, but without the loyalty or ambition(depends on how you view it) 

 

Most CL out folk use Clarke as the yard stick. 

Hindsight is wonderful. 

 

I think Robbie outdone Clarke as well in his first 2.5 seasons with us, but certain posters hailing Clarke wanted Robbie gone. 

Strange. 

 

 

 

Anyway, Craig I reckon is staying. 

 

You have a choice - support the gaffer and team, moan like a bitch all pre season. 

 

 

 

 

 

Yea Great, we will probably start as lackluster as we ended our season. Another manager will have to pick up the pieces instead of building his own squad pre-season when AB finally gets rid of him. 

[Phil Dunphy]

2 hours ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

Maybe it was because we kept changing managers and rebuilt every season. 

 

Ever stopped to think about that? 

 

 

 

I don't remember us changing manager in 2018.

 

Do you?

[Bazzas right boot]

10 minutes ago, CAI said:

 

Yea Great, we will probably start as lackluster as we ended our season. Another manager will have to pick up the pieces instead of building his own squad pre-season when AB finally gets rid of him. 

 

 

You can but hope. 

[Who_put_the_ball_in...]

3 hours ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

This is key to my thinking atm. 

 

Many "change the manager and see who applies" type posters totally dismissing the importance of this. 

The results would suggest otherwise

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

I don't remember us changing manager in 2018.

 

Do you?

We didn't actually get a new manager but CL had a health scare and others were temporarily in charge,   That almost certainly broke continuity and it is debatable at what point he took over full duties again.  Don't you remember that or is that like the injuries - they did not happen in some people's eyes?

[bringonthesevco]

23 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

We didn't actually get a new manager but CL had a health scare and others were temporarily in charge,   That almost certainly broke continuity and it is debatable at what point he took over full duties again.  Don't you remember that or is that like the injuries - they did not happen in some people's eyes?

his healthscare didn't happen during the transfer window - so doesn't explain his complete inability to again address the lack of creativity in midfield which has been glaringly obvious for years ...

[JamboAl]

5 minutes ago, bringonthesevco said:

his healthscare didn't happen during the transfer window - so doesn't explain his complete inability to again address the lack of creativity in midfield which has been glaringly obvious for years ...

1

Money might have had something to do with it though.  How do you know he didn't try and was knocked back?

What creative MFs could he have signed and at what cost?

[Phil Dunphy]

2 hours ago, JamboAl said:

We didn't actually get a new manager but CL had a health scare and others were temporarily in charge,   That almost certainly broke continuity and it is debatable at what point he took over full duties again.  Don't you remember that or is that like the injuries - they did not happen in some people's eyes?

 

How many matches did Levein miss?

 

Was it a significant enough period that it contributed to us winning 7 games out of 27 past November?

[JamboAl]

15 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

How many matches did Levein miss?

 

Was it a significant enough period that it contributed to us winning 7 games out of 27 past November?

Enough to break continuity.  Even although he came back (earlier than Mrs B suggested) that does not mean he was working at full throttle.

I don't know how serious his heart scare was but it's not exactly a trivial or quickly fixed complaint.

Maybe you can tell us.

[Phil Dunphy]

2 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Enough to break continuity.  Even although he came back (earlier than Mrs B suggested) that does not mean he was working at full throttle.

I don't know how serious his heart scare was but it's not exactly a trivial or quickly fixed complaint.

Maybe you can tell us.

 

So because he had a heart scare in August, that accounts for us being horseshit since October?

 

It worries me that you probably think that makes sense.

 

EDIT: He missed two games. St Mirren at home, where he apparently picked the team himself and Motherwell away. Both of which, we won.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Phil Dunphy

[JamboAl]

2 hours ago, bringonthesevco said:

his healthscare didn't happen during the transfer window - so doesn't explain his complete inability to again address the lack of creativity in midfield which has been glaringly obvious for years ...

It did!

[WheatfieldWarrior]

5 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Did Killie expect to get Steve Clarke?

 

Did Hibs expect to get Terry Butcher?

[Phil Dunphy]

1 minute ago, WheatfieldWarrior said:

 

Did Hibs expect to get Terry Butcher?

 

Since they approached Inverness and asked to speak to him about the vacant managers position, I doubt it was much of a surprise to them when they appointed him.

[JamboAl]

6 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

So because he had a heart scare in August, that accounts for us being horseshit since October?

 

It worries me that you probably think that makes sense.

 

EDIT: He missed two games. St Mirren at home, where he apparently picked the team himself and Motherwell away. Both of which, we won.

I doubt if he was working at full throttle and Mrs B thought he ought not to have been at work at all.

Try having some sympathy and understanding.

[Phil Dunphy]

Just now, JamboAl said:

I doubt if he was working at full throttle and Mrs B thought he ought not to have been at work at all.

Try having some sympathy and understanding.

 

If his health is affecting his ability to do his job, then he should step down.

 

Are you saying it's continuing to cause him difficulties?

[WheatfieldWarrior]

Just now, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Since they approached Inverness and asked to speak to him about the vacant managers position, I doubt it was much of a surprise to them when they appointed him.

 

But they weren't expecting to get the shite one that they got, they were expecting to get a manager who did well in his last appointment

[JamboAl]

1 minute ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

If his health is affecting his ability to do his job, then he should step down.

 

Are you saying it's continuing to cause him difficulties?

I'm saying I don't know enough about the situation.  Do you?

However, I would be surprised if he was able to pick up the reins immediately on returning and would possibly ease him back gradually over a period.

Would you not agree?

[Prof]

7 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I doubt if he was working at full throttle and Mrs B thought he ought not to have been at work at all.

Try having some sympathy and understanding.

Absolutely, after all we have a good record now of bringing in clapped out players on long term contracts only to see them sitting on their backside doing nothing. Why not extend the same courtesy to a clapped out manager.

[Phil Dunphy]

Just now, JamboAl said:

I'm saying I don't know enough about the situation.  Do you?

However, I would be surprised if he was able to pick up the reins immediately on returning and would possibly ease him back gradually over a period.

Would you not agree?

 

Yes, I'm privy to Craig Leveins medical records because doctor patient confidentiality doesn't exist anymore  *

 

Our dogshit form actually started nearly two months after he returned to work. So if you're going to use that as an excuse for us being so criminally bad then you'll need to come up with something better.

 

*Disclaimer: It does, you don't need to Google that to check.

[AlphonseCapone]

7 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

I’m not sure how many times I have to say that watching people do anything well can help you to emulate them, that’s why football coaches do it. They do it for a reason, I’m only telling you lot what they do, I didn’t invent it but from my own experience watching professional golfers helped me play better. I didn’t become Tiger Woods but it definitely helped. When you have blistering pace and are faster than your opposite number, playing it past them and chasing it is something most do and Mulraney rarely does. Is that so hard to comprehend?

 

It's the fact you think the club or players don't already do this. I'm sure Mulraney watches MOTD, the champions league etc, as well as himself when the players watch the games back and highlight what could be done better. It's only going to take him so far though because he doesn't and never will have Gareth Bale's ability, or even close to it. He could spend an entire year watching Bale play football and it won't make that much of a difference. 

[JamboAl]

4 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Yes, I'm privy to Craig Leveins medical records because doctor patient confidentiality doesn't exist anymore  *

 

Our dogshit form actually started nearly two months after he returned to work. So if you're going to use that as an excuse for us being so criminally bad then you'll need to come up with something better.

 

*Disclaimer: It does, you don't need to Google that to check.

I haven't used it as an excuse because I do not know - and nor do you.

I merely cited his health as a possible reason for a break in continuity

.Criminally bad?  You aren't half a drama queen.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by JamboAl

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

It's the fact you think the club or players don't already do this. I'm sure Mulraney watches MOTD, the champions league etc, as well as himself when the players watch the games back and highlight what could be done better. It's only going to take him so far though because he doesn't and never will have Gareth Bale's ability, or even close to it. He could spend an entire year watching Bale play football and it won't make that much of a difference. 

How many times do I have to say that I KNOW they do it? I picked Bale especially as it’s something he does and I KNOW they haven’t shown him clips of him specifically, he obviously has seen Bale do it but doesn’t think he can or have the confidence to do so. He can kick it and chase it, I don’t expect him to hit fantastic free kicks or score overhead kicks. Just the simple things that he can learn, as most do in any walk of life.

[Phil Dunphy]

8 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I haven't used it as an excuse because I do not know - and nor do you.

I merely cited his health as a possible reason for a break in continuity

.Criminally bad?  You aren't half a drama queen.

 

 

 

25 points from a possible 84 since the win at Dundee. Less of the drama queen nonsense.

 

You're posting enough if it without that type of patter.

[Gavman81]

I was one of his harshest critics during last six months but factoring in the cup form, first three months of the season and player feedback I think he could turn it round - but it needs to be quick with almost no room for signing errors, injuries used as an excuse and we need to hit ground running when season kicks off. 

[Kiwidoug]

1 hour ago, Gavman81 said:

I was one of his harshest critics during last six months but factoring in the cup form, first three months of the season and player feedback I think he could turn it round - but it needs to be quick with almost no room for signing errors, injuries used as an excuse and we need to hit ground running when season kicks off. 

That's me as well.  He's staying and I'm 100% behind him.  He has to get it right though.  Repeated lacklustre performances just wont cut it.

 

He will know that.

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

25 points from a possible 84 since the win at Dundee. Less of the drama queen nonsense.

 

You're posting enough if it without that type of patter.

 

Criminally bad = drama Queen.

Must have done very well before the injuries set in.

[Phil Dunphy]

3 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Criminally bad = drama Queen.

Must have done very well before the injuries set in.

 

I'd rather be a drama queen than a loser.

 

 

[JamboAl]

1 minute ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

I'd rather be a drama queen than a loser.

 

 

It's good you think you have a choice.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, CAI said:

 

Yea Great, we will probably start as lackluster as we ended our season. Another manager will have to pick up the pieces instead of building his own squad pre-season when AB finally gets rid of him. 

 

Except that's not what happened at the start of last season after an even more lacklustre finish. So, there's that...

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

I'd rather be a drama queen than a loser.

 

 

 

Don't put yourself down, man. You can be both. You can do it - Hearts are relying on the positive vibes and revolutionary ideas you and the rest of the constant moaners bring to the club.

[merseyjambo]

On 27/05/2019 at 17:11, ToqueJambo said:

 

Not real supporters. I suspect there’s a generational divide here - certainly with jambos I know. People who lived through the 80s watching Hearts can put up with lean spells and maybe cope with crushing disappointment better than younger fans. We also know that managers can come good after a couple of seasons.

 

I’ve been going since the mid 70s and I’ve seen some dross from managers that are worse than CL and kept going but more often than not, guys like Tony Ford didn’t last long. 

 

On 27/05/2019 at 17:07, ToqueJambo said:

 

I’m all ears if theres a good candidate out there and I’m sure Budge is too. If Robbo wanted to come I’d be good with that. I liked the sound of Dougie Freedman and if Michael ONeil left NI I’d be all over that, or maybe an up and coming German coach, but non of the names being put up strike me as less risky than giving Levein another year.

 

I’ll throw 3 in straight away. 2 I’m fairly certain that wouldn’t be expensive, 1 might be but think he’d be a bloody good manager. Grant McCann from Doncaster or Michael Flynn at Newport. Both play good football on limited budgets and are ready to take the next step up. If we could afford him, I’d take Kenny Jackett in a heartbeat. 

 

On 27/05/2019 at 17:13, ToqueJambo said:

 

Did you watch us scrap around for a couple of years in the 80s before Doddie hit on the right formula. Imagine we’d got rid of him.

 

Doddie hit the right formula in his first full season and we should have gone back up straight away. We blew it in the last few games but there were enough signs in there to show we’d get it right the following season. That staying down oddly enough probably helped us as it gave the kids like Robbo, Mackay and Bowman a chance to mature a bit more and made them ready for the Premier League when we did go up. Mercer saw that we were almost right so there is no way he’d have sacked Doddie.

 

The difference between his first couple of seasons and the almost 2 under CL is night and day. Doddie  had us going places, CL has us stagnating. The only reason that we are having this discussion is because we got to a cup final thanks to the easiest cup run imaginable. If we’d got papped out in the quarters the same way as we had the season before at Motherwell, the clamour for him to go would be greater.

 

CL as a player while I was in my youth/teens was one of my all time favourites in a maroon jersey. His partnership with Sandy Jardine is still in my opinion, the best centre back pairing I’ve seen at Tynecastle. I’d have loved it if he’d won the cup on Saturday as it would have compensated for the unfortunate injuries he’d suffered in his career and without doubt he’d have played at the top level.

 

His stewardship of the club at present is stalling. Successive mid table finishes playing poor football is not encouraging. His inability to change things to break teams down or try to settle at 1-0 is his trademark. Putting on a display for a maximum of 6-10 games a season is unacceptable, and I’m possibly being generous there (Celtic x 2, Aberdeen x 1, Motherwell in cup, St Mirren x 1, Killie x 2). He was able to put up a show against Lennon on Saturday because Lennon is a piss poor manager and will be found out next season (5/2 Rangers is extremely generous IMO). Lennon is tactically limited. Same teams on Saturday with Brenda in charge and outcome would have been way different. We’d have been embarrassed. He can’t be measured on 2 or 3 games against Celtic or Hibs but the real measure is how he performs against the teams that come, sit in, defend and try to break them down. There is where he constantly fails to deliver. Look at our results over last couple of seasons against them. Losing against St Mirren, failing to break down Livi on 3 occasions this season, shocking performances against Dundee and Hamilton at home. 

 

That LC group will come down to game at Tynecastle v United. If we fail to get out, does that make his position more untenable. Cathro was punted for fairly indifferent league form and failure to get out group stage of LC, would CL be any different???

Edited May 28, 2019 by merseyjambo

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, merseyjambo said:

 

I’ve been going since the mid 70s and I’ve seen some dross from managers that are worse than CL and kept going but more often than not, guys like Tony Ford didn’t last long. 

 

 

I’ll throw 3 in straight away. 2 I’m fairly certain that wouldn’t be expensive, 1 might be but think he’d be a bloody good manager. Grant McCann from Doncaster or Michael Flynn at Newport. Both play good football on limited budgets and are ready to take the next step up. If we could afford him, I’d take Kenny Jackett in a heartbeat. 

 

 

Doddie hit the right formula in his first full season and we should have gone back up straight away. We blew it in the last few games but there were enough signs in there to show we’d get it right the following season. That staying down oddly enough probably helped us as it gave the kids like Robbo, Mackay and Bowman a chance to mature a bit more and made them ready for the Premier League when we did go up. Mercer saw that we were almost right so there is no way he’d have sacked Doddie.

 

The difference between his first couple of seasons and the almost 2 under CL is night and day. Doddie  had us going places, CL has us stagnating. The only reason that we are having this discussion is because we got to a cup final thanks to the easiest cup run imaginable. If we’d got papped out in the quarters the same way as we had the season before at Motherwell, the clamour for him to go would be greater.

 

CL as a player while I was in my youth/teens was one of my all time favourites in a maroon jersey. His partnership with Sandy Jardine is still in my opinion, the best centre back pairing I’ve seen at Tynecastle. I’d have loved it if he’d won the cup on Saturday as it would have compensated for the unfortunate injuries he’d suffered in his career and without doubt he’d have played at the top level.

 

His stewardship of the club at present is stalling. Successive mid table finishes playing poor football is not encouraging. His inability to change things to break teams down or try to settle at 1-0 is his trademark. Putting on a display for a maximum of 6-10 games a season is unacceptable, and I’m possibly being generous there (Celtic x 2, Aberdeen x 1, Motherwell in cup, St Mirren x 1, Killie x 2). He was able to put up a show against Lennon on Saturday because Lennon is a piss poor manager and will be found out next season (5/2 Rangers is extremely generous IMO). Lennon is tactically limited. Same teams on Saturday with Brenda in charge and outcome would have been way different. We’d have been embarrassed. He can’t be measured on 2 or 3 games against Celtic or Hibs but the real measure is how he performs against the teams that come, sit in, defend and try to break them down. There is where he constantly fails to deliver. Look at our results over last couple of seasons against them. Losing against St Mirren, failing to break down Livi on 3 occasions this season, shocking performances against Dundee and Hamilton at home. 

 

That LC group will come down to game at Tynecastle v United. If we fail to get out, does that make his position more untenable. Cathro was punted for fairly indifferent league form and failure to get out group stage of LC, would CL be any different???

 

Cathro was sacked because it became very clear he is not a head coach. His career from now on will probably reflect that.

 

Identifying a LC game now - in May! - as a must-win game for Levein is just barmy. Don’t you get tired of all these apparent must-win games?

 

He was given a 3 year contract instead of the 1 or 2 year, that to me would have been sensible, because Budge wants to rebuild the club in a stable and sustainable way.

 

Sorry to disappoint you but the Dundee Utd LC tie is not a must win in terms of Levein’s position.

 

Did you also miss the start to last season? Why on earth don’t you think we could do that again?

 

As for the manager names, what style of play do they go for? Whats their recruitment like? Do they bring youngsters through? Are they willing to work as part of a bigger football team?

Edited May 28, 2019 by Guest

[Bazzas right boot]

3 hours ago, Gavman81 said:

I was one of his harshest critics during last six months but factoring in the cup form, first three months of the season and player feedback I think he could turn it round - but it needs to be quick with almost no room for signing errors, injuries used as an excuse and we need to hit ground running when season kicks off. 

 

1 hour ago, Kiwidoug said:

That's me as well.  He's staying and I'm 100% behind him.  He has to get it right though.  Repeated lacklustre performances just wont cut it.

 

He will know that.

 

 

Sensible. 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

I'd rather be a drama queen than a loser.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

It's good you think you have a choice.

 

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Don't put yourself down, man. You can be both. You can do it - Hearts are relying on the positive vibes and revolutionary ideas you and the rest of the constant moaners bring to the club.

 

 

Poster gets in battle of wits and is out gunned-again. 

 

Great stuff.