Enzo Chiefo Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 33 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: That’s not how he played in the biggest game of his managerial career on Saturday. He described the plan as being to "frustrate Celtic" and stop them playing. Do you think he went all out to win or to sneak a goal and sit back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said: Indeed. A third manager change in 3 years would be insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Just now, Enzo Chiefo said: He described the plan as being to "frustrate Celtic" and stop them playing. Do you think he went all out to win or to sneak a goal and sit back? You clearly didn’t watch the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said: You clearly didn’t watch the game. I did but just have a different view from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: Should mcinnes go to? An even bigger budget than Killie. And no cup final. And Gerrard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: Mcinnes should surely be sacked for finishing behind them! Killie got a good manager who clicked with the club and got them overachieving for a couple of years. He’s now gone. It happens periodically in Scotland. Levein is right, we’ll be back as a regular top 4 club soon. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38117543 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44216233 Yet more talk from the club who likes to do its talking anywhere other than on the park. 3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: Indeed. A third manager change in 3 years would be insanity. 36% mate. He's lost 41% of the league games he's been manager for. Edited May 27, 2019 by Phil Dunphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 13 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: Should mcinnes go to? An even bigger budget than Killie. And no cup final. McInnes had the same cup record as us, a SF snd Final defeat by Celtic although arguably better as he beat Rangers in Glasgow en route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Phil Dunphy said: Yes. When a team shows a lack of form, resembling Hearts since November, they usually do shift the manager on. Do you even pay attention to football outside of Edinburgh? Yes I do and I see 42 teams in Scottish football alone. 92 in England. Od course I agree that teams “expected” to hit fans expectations managed by managers failing to hit those “expectations” will be moved on. There are examples out there. However Levein has not fallen below similar “expectations” in his time here. Name me a manger anywhere in the UK who has been “shifted” on after 2 top half’s of the table in 2 years with a semi final and final on their CV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said: Much bigger budget? I hear this a lot and I don’t buy it. Bigger budgets when dealing on the level we are dealing with is irrelevant. We scrape through the bargain basement. Rarely pay any sort of fee. Wages minimal. Killie working to the exact same levels. The difference between clubs like us Hibs, Killie, Aberdeen etc and then say Rangers and Celtic is night and day. We get lucky now and again when we find a gem but the vast majority of our signings are punts. The sooner we admit we are sifting through shit for a nugget the better. Absolute nonsense, have any of those teams spent money like the £500k we used for Claire and Wighton. Shit like Lafferty/Naismith/Berra? Our budget is much bigger than Kilmarnocks, whether you can accept it us neither here nor there. We also have a higher budget than Hibs, slightly behind Aberdeen but that will change next season. Maybe instead of buying 20 (113 in 5 years) players we could sign ten and get better quality, and use the youths more as they’ve been encouraging the last few weeks as the injury prone squad fell apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Vlad Magic said: Yes I do and I see 42 teams in Scottish football alone. 92 in England. Od course I agree that teams “expected” to hit fans expectations managed by managers failing to hit those “expectations” will be moved on. There are examples out there. However Levein has not fallen below similar “expectations” in his time here. Name me a manger anywhere in the UK who has been “shifted” on after 2 top half’s of the table in 2 years with a semi final and final on their CV? Cathro had one top six, he got sacked and Leveins record in the same amount of games is almost identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38117543 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44216233 Yet more talk from the club who likes to do its talking anywhere other than on the park. 36% mate. He's lost 41% of the league games he's been manager for. What % of his best players were available for those games compared to competitors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Absolute nonsense, have any of those teams spent money like the £500k we used for Claire and Wighton. Shit like Lafferty/Naismith/Berra? Our budget is much bigger than Kilmarnocks, whether you can accept it us neither here nor there. We also have a higher budget than Hibs, slightly behind Aberdeen but that will change next season. Maybe instead of buying 20 (113 in 5 years) players we could sign ten and get better quality, and use the youths more as they’ve been encouraging the last few weeks as the injury prone squad fell apart. He’s referring to managers I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, To Be Frank said: Foundations are there and I’m excited for next season. Looking forward to a fully fit Naismith, Uche and Haring back in the team and seeing how the likes of Cochrane, MacDonald, Keena, Hickey and Smith develop Absolutely this. Expecting some real quality this window to come in. Really believe Cochrane et all are all capable of playing a significant role next season which should allow us to use the saved cash in conjunction with the cup run money to bring in some more players of the Haring/Naismith category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 24 minutes ago, sadj said: Would it not be down McLeod Street It depends which direction. I was prepared to give him a Director of Academy role so, I think it should be up that bit to the Tynie Arms then Gorgie Road and up towards Riccarton. I take your point though as you're obviously heading down towards Russell Road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Vlad Magic said: Yes I do and I see 42 teams in Scottish football alone. 92 in England. Od course I agree that teams “expected” to hit fans expectations managed by managers failing to hit those “expectations” will be moved on. There are examples out there. However Levein has not fallen below similar “expectations” in his time here. Name me a manger anywhere in the UK who has been “shifted” on after 2 top half’s of the table in 2 years with a semi final and final on their CV? Manchester United and Jose Mourinho. Chelsea and Roberto Di Matteo. Manchester City and Manuel Pelligrini. Want me to carry on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: What % of his best players were available for those games compared to competitors? Do you think that, without Steven Naismith, we should have the quality required to beat Dundee, Hamilton and St Mirren? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Phil Dunphy said: Manchester United and Jose Mourinho. Chelsea and Roberto Di Matteo. Manchester City and Manuel Pelligrini. Want me to carry on? They had 100s of millions to spend. There is a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Just now, Enzo Chiefo said: It depends which direction. I was prepared to give him a Director of Academy role so, I think it should be up that bit to the Tynie Arms then Gorgie Road and up towards Riccarton. I take your point though as you're obviously heading down towards Russell Road. Well i’m not if he’s not in charge , DoF / Academy etc is where I think he should be for at least a couple more years then along wi AB , a director but in an honorary way. There will be plenty kicking him down the way. Hence the cheeky comment. Thought you were away off on holiday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 20 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: Should mcinnes go to? An even bigger budget than Killie. And no cup final. He’s taken them to four finals I think, he hasn’t finished 6th twice but as far as I know the Aberdeen fans want him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 minute ago, sadj said: Well i’m not if he’s not in charge , DoF / Academy etc is where I think he should be for at least a couple more years then along wi AB , a director but in an honorary way. There will be plenty kicking him down the way. Hence the cheeky comment. Thought you were away off on holiday? I am but keeping up to date with the banter ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMFC 86 Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 36 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: Moaning *******s. Folk have wanted Levein out for years for some weird reason known only to them. Weird reasons such shockingly poor football, hit or miss signings (generally miss), two sixth place finishes with the lowest goals scored in the top six and some horrendous results/performances (Livingston 5-0 anyone). It’s embarrassing you are trying to paint this as all by “Levein haters”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: He’s referring to managers I think. He mentioned punts on players and that a budget is irrelevant, most leagues in the world disprove this theory whether it’s manager or players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 47 minutes ago, Finlay James said: Celtic had everyone back defending corners at the weekend and they've just won the treble treble. I didn't notice that but I don't agree with the tactic, whoever deploys it. Pretty sure Rogers didn't defend that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said: They had 100s of millions to spend. There is a difference. Right, so instead of naming managers in the UK (like you asked), you want me to name managers who have similar budgets to ours instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Just now, Enzo Chiefo said: I am but keeping up to date with the banter ? Lol , levine oot , levein is staying , levein will get a few months No LEVINE OOT , LEVEIN IS STAYING , Levein will get a few months. The Daly and Fox talk is interesting. Thats in-keeping with what I was told, I think how well we played on Saturday may just up Craigs resolve to get over the line. Butttt...one of the things I heard also fits with him staying irrespective of Saturday. If that one transpires i will say but I’d be ok with that option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said: Do you think that, without Steven Naismith, we should have the quality required to beat Dundee, Hamilton and St Mirren? Every team in the league has lost important players during the season, the injury excuse doesn’t cut it. If they want to ask why we sign injury prone players, or why only our goalkeepers have been fit for every game these last two seasons it could be discussed (but they don’t). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Just now, sadj said: Lol , levine oot , levein is staying , levein will get a few months No LEVINE OOT , LEVEIN IS STAYING , Levein will get a few months. The Daly and Fox talk is interesting. Thats in-keeping with what I was told, I think how well we played on Saturday may just up Craigs resolve to get over the line. Butttt...one of the things I heard also fits with him staying irrespective of Saturday. If that one transpires i will say but I’d be ok with that option. Will be interesting to see what transpires over the next few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Just now, Phil Dunphy said: Right, so instead of naming managers in the UK (like you asked), you want me to name managers who have similar budgets to ours instead? We all know that the managers of the teams you listed are “expected” by their fans to challenge for the league. Try the other teams mangers in the leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Just now, Vlad Magic said: We all know that the managers of the teams you listed are “expected” by their fans to challenge for the league. Try the other teams mangers in the leagues. You asked me to name managers who got to cup finals and challenged for league titles and got "shifted on" for their troubles. So I did. Deal with it mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 29 minutes ago, busby1985 said: This. He’s somehow managed to hypnotise them into taking pride in losing to a Celtic side many openly discuss as being bang average. I have been slaughtered for it since the cup final, maybe bad timing on my part but he’s waaaaaaaaaaay beyond his sell by date. If you take our love for Hearts out the equation, it could be argued, his subs on Saturday took us out the game. Haring going off killed us, we just went straight like for like and dropped the control of the midfield. His decision to bring on Wighton is something that will never make sense to me. Take the season as a whole and I can’t believe he’s lasted as long as he has. We solved our left back problems on the last day of the season with a player that’s been at the club all season. Our goal scorer on Saturday spent the first half of the season on loan at St Mirren and only came into the team squad to cover injuries on the build up to the cup final. It’s his comments in the press that bug me the most. The worst thing about Saturday is we played a high press, something we haven’t done since the first few games of the season. Everything in between has been cautious, pedestrian nonsense. Where was the high press in November? I like Levein as a hearts man, he’s one of us, that isn’t up for discussion. He is however now causing us damage and needs to either go back upstairs or he risks severing his tie with the club completely. You’re wasting your time posting common sense. Everything will be hunky dory next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 16 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Absolute nonsense, have any of those teams spent money like the £500k we used for Claire and Wighton. Shit like Lafferty/Naismith/Berra? Our budget is much bigger than Kilmarnocks, whether you can accept it us neither here nor there. We also have a higher budget than Hibs, slightly behind Aberdeen but that will change next season. Maybe instead of buying 20 (113 in 5 years) players we could sign ten and get better quality, and use the youths more as they’ve been encouraging the last few weeks as the injury prone squad fell apart. Just checking, are you claiming that Lafferty, Naismith and Berra were shit signings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said: I didn't notice that but I don't agree with the tactic, whoever deploys it. Pretty sure Rogers didn't defend that way. Celtic did it at Tynecastle also. The difference is aside from Mulraney breaking at speed is not our forte. Actually worked better wi Callachan when he was still here. May of been headless but he ran til he dropped which gave us a better out ball. Our transition phase is poor , Adao was brought in last season to improve that and did til he got a concussion and forgot how kick a ball. Haring is an upgrade on Adao but when he’s out Bozanic / etc are so ponderous it collapses and without Naismith we have no creativity to really open defences. If that is addressed this off season we should be looking good next year. Its great having Clare , Edwards and Mulraney running at defences but if we can’t move it fast enough to let them do it at pace we are as toothless as very toothless , toothless thing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 minute ago, graygo said: Just checking, are you claiming that Lafferty, Naismith and Berra were shit signings? No he said that we were only able to sign shit players and punts, those three aren’t that are they? Its why I put a question mark instead of an exclamation mark at the end of the sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said: No he said that we were only able to sign shit players and punts, those three aren’t that are they? Its why I put a question mark instead of an exclamation mark at the end of the sentence. Cheers for the reply, makes sense now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, sadj said: Celtic did it at Tynecastle also. The difference is aside from Mulraney breaking at speed is not our forte. Actually worked better wi Callachan when he was still here. May of been headless but he ran til he dropped which gave us a better out ball. Our transition phase is poor , Adao was brought in last season to improve that and did til he got a concussion and forgot how kick a ball. Haring is an upgrade on Adao but when he’s out Bozanic / etc are so ponderous it collapses and without Naismith we have no creativity to really open defences. If that is addressed this off season we should be looking good next year. Its great having Clare , Edwards and Mulraney running at defences but if we can’t move it fast enough to let them do it at pace we are as toothless as very toothless , toothless thing.... I don’t think those really have the quality required to open defences, Mulraney and Clare have done it sporadically but crosses to Maclean against those two giant CHs were unlikely to work. Clare needs a good preseason and to up his work rate, get more upper body strength too as does Edwards.. His fitness and work rate is great but there’s a reason he hadn’t been used until we were down to the bare bones. All young and can improve with the right coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, graygo said: Cheers for the reply, makes sense now. No probs, always sounds good in my head but doesn’t always look right when it’s typed ?. Watched the game again today and I’m typing furiously on here and on Twitter with these horrible Celtic ***** and their wee cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said: I don’t think those really have the quality required to open defences, Mulraney and Clare have done it sporadically but crosses to Maclean against those two giant CHs were unlikely to work. Clare needs a good preseason and to up his work rate, get more upper body strength too as does Edwards.. His fitness and work rate is great but there’s a reason he hadn’t been used until we were down to the bare bones. All young and can improve with the right coaching. Clare and Mulraney will i think continue to improve. The crosses Mulraney was getting in on saturday were decent. Hayes was the one who made two superb clearances to take it off one of our players heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bistokid Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 If we are reliant on Edwards, Clare and Mulraney next season as starters we'll be lucky to make 6th place next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Morph said: What about the risk of losing the fans turning up? Some are already saying they're not bothering because he's in charge and won't be buying season tickets until he's gone. At the moment they are only saying that. Talk is cheap. Let’s see the numbers come August and September before making rash predictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 35 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said: A bang average Celtic team that are the most successful in Scottish Football history? Think about what you are saying. They have won everything for years and needed a dodgy pen and a defensive mistake to beat us. It was a fantastic effort and it’s beyond idiotic to suggest otherwise. You won't convince him if he's quoting Man City and Liverpool as examples to beat Levein with. Considering the brutal injuries decimated a team that was flying at the top of the league and the manager had a ****ing heart attack during the season and we still ran Celtic very close in a Cup Final that most of the cheerleaders in the press believed was simply a matter of Celtic turning up and swatting us away as an irrelevance, then to me he has earned another crack at it. There are things that irk - a lack of guile and drive in the team too often, losing our fortress Tynecastle to some shitty teams hurts too. But overall I don't think any club board would fire someone for 6th place plus a Scottish Cup Final so we all might as well get behind him and the team anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said: 6th two seasons running, the foundations are anything but stable with a squad full of injury prone imposters who only show up when they feel like it. Berra - one injury in two seasons, Souter - 2 injuries in two seasons, Smith - one injury in two seasons, Naismith - one injury since joining us (accept he has had previous) , Uche - one injury in one season, Haring - one injury in one season. Difficult to argue your point re injury-prone I think. Our problem was that they all happened at nearly the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, sadj said: Clare and Mulraney will i think continue to improve. The crosses Mulraney was getting in on saturday were decent. Hayes was the one who made two superb clearances to take it off one of our players heads. Yes he did and Mulraney put in roughly 6-8 crosses and barely found a Hearts player once because he doesn’t look up before he sends it in. A few pieces of footage showing Bale kicking it and chasing it past a fullback wouldn’t do him any harm either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Yes he did and Mulraney put in roughly 6-8 crosses and barely found a Hearts player once because he doesn’t look up before he sends it in. A few pieces of footage showing Bale kicking it and chasing it past a fullback wouldn’t do him any harm either. Bale....... ????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said: Did you watch us scrap around for a couple of years in the 80s before Doddie hit on the right formula. Imagine we’d got rid of him. Doddle is the perfect example. Didn’t get us out of Div 2 in first season, promoted as runners-up in second season, then had a 5th and a 7th in the top league whilst building a squad. We all know what happened next. A lot of folks on here would have punted him after year1, or maybe year 2, definitely after years 3 and 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Olly Lee's left boot said: Bale....... ????????? And Liverpool and Man City. I'm beginning to understand why some fans wanted a manager battling for second place binned such is the standards they expect us to attain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 26 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said: You asked me to name managers who got to cup finals and challenged for league titles and got "shifted on" for their troubles. So I did. Deal with it mate. You know fine well where I was going with it. Using your logic hundreds of managers all over the country would be being hounded out by fans for not hitting targets created by said fans. Back in the real world that is not happening because fans know that expectations need balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Gizmo said: And Liverpool and Man City. I'm beginning to understand why some fans wanted a manager battling for second place binned such is the standards they expect us to attain. The games up the pole with these guys. Lost all concept of reality. They need to to think is it Scottish football they think is crap and dislike or just Hearts. Why stop there. Make Uche watch Kane. Clare watch messi Souttar watch Goodwin. Lee to watch Ronaldo. Jobs a good one. Edited May 27, 2019 by Olly Lee's left boot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said: You know fine well where I was going with it. Using your logic hundreds of managers all over the country would be being hounded out by fans for not hitting targets created by said fans. Back in the real world that is not happening because fans know that expectations need balance. You asked me a question and I answered it. Next time structure the question to fit your agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 57 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said: I did but just have a different view from you. Come on, Enzo, we were the better team. Especially the first half. With a wee rub of the green, we'd be still celebrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: Doddle is the perfect example. Didn’t get us out of Div 2 in first season, promoted as runners-up in second season, then had a 5th and a 7th in the top league whilst building a squad. We all know what happened next. A lot of folks on here would have punted him after year1, or maybe year 2, definitely after years 3 and 4. Used this when Robbie was hounded. Robbie was well ahead of where Doddie was at the same time. Fans wanted him gone. Some folk have fair concerns. More and more tho, if it's not Personal, the posters are just idiots with no patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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