U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[Sharpie]

Trump and Sarah I agree with everything he says, both criticise anonymous leakers, and suggest they should do the honorable thing and give their name. Its strange but it doesn't seem to have the same affect when it suits them.  An anonymous leaker has provided a memo accusing Rosenstein of threatening to wear a wire, and arranging a group to enforce Article 25. Despite the anonymity Trump is prepared and is in fact going to fire Rosenstein and Sessions, and appoint someone who will then fire Mueller. So with Kavanaugh on the Court  and the D oJ Trumpified he and his family will be immunised from any prosecution.

I am reading Fear just now, what a dysfunctional collection of supposedly intelligent honorable men they are. For someone who has used profanity as a second in fact sometimes almost primary language I find it difficult to read about the most used word in the White House including the president is the word F... It seems that the primary function of all including the VP is to protect the president from himself. He is a disgusting, disordered, creature who uses his power to get away with things that he wouldn't have the balls to try if it was one on one on the street. Its hard to believe that it seems the general opinion is that if you left him alone for an extended period he would start WW3, but for selfish self interest they go along with him and protect him, I hope I see the spectacle of the fingerpointing when this whole ridiculous segment of American history explodes as it will, hopefully politically and not nuclear.

[Ulysses]

59 minutes ago, Barack said:

Had I the heavens' embroidered cloths, Enwrought with golden and silver light,

The blue and the dim and the dark cloths

Of night and light and the half light,

I would spread the cloths under your feet:

But I, being poor, have only my dreams;

I have spread my dreams under your feet;

Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.

 

I hate to admit this, but I looked up quite a lot of numbers before I posted my previous message. 

 

Soz. 

[jake]

On 22/09/2018 at 05:25, ri Alban said:

A Unionist, Tump loving Brexiteer. That's some going, FA. Your conscience must be eating you from arsehole up. 

Just as well your conscience isn't eating you from the arsehole up.

As it wouldn't take long.

 

[Governor Tarkin]

16 minutes ago, jake said:

Just as well your conscience isn't eating you from the arsehole up.

As it wouldn't take long.

 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

3 hours ago, Barack said:

Had I the heavens' embroidered cloths, Enwrought with golden and silver light,

The blue and the dim and the dark cloths

Of night and light and the half light,

I would spread the cloths under your feet:

But I, being poor, have only my dreams;

I have spread my dreams under your feet;

Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.

 

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

 

Nobel prize-winning, I'll have you know.

[I P Knightley]

2 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

It's all lovely poetry and shit but feck me if I don't get the subtlety. 

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, jake said:

Just as well your conscience isn't eating you from the arsehole up.

As it wouldn't take long.

 

Windows, jake. Mind yer feet. 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by ri Alban

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, jake said:

Just as well your conscience isn't eating you from the arsehole up.

As it wouldn't take long.

 

If I had, I'd probably be an alky or a jakey.

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

On ‎21‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 14:37, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

The New York Times is reporting that, in 2017, Rod Rosenstein proposed secretly recording Trump in an effort to invoke the 25th amendment, but that nothing ultimately came of that suggestion.  If Trump is looking for cover to have Rosenstein fired, he may see this as an opportunity.

 

Edit: Rosenstein is, not surprisingly, denying the claim.

 

 

Reports now coming in that Rosenstein has tendered his resignation. Other reporting suggesting he's on his way to the White House and expecting to be fired. This will get very interesting very quickly.

[Bridge of Djoum]

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/senate-democrats-investigate-a-new-allegation-of-sexual-misconduct-from-the-supreme-court-nominee-brett-kavanaughs-college-years-deborah-ramirez

 

2nd woman comes forward with accusations against Kavanaugh.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Barack said:

*Throw.

 

Through?     Jesus. 

 

Can you please give the real Barack his account back please. You're fooling no-one!

[redjambo]

3 minutes ago, Barack said:

Hey, it's me. I've killed that illiterate imposter.

 

All's well again. Now, about Rosenstein...

 

Good, about time.

 

As for Rosenstein, he's out. What happens next though? If Trump acts against Mueller then it's an admission of guilt or at least of great fear of what the inquiry may produce. If he really has nothing to fear then he should leave Mueller well alone.

 

[I P Knightley]

40 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Good, about time.

 

As for Rosenstein, he's out. What happens next though? If Trump acts against Mueller then it's an admission of guilt or at least of great fear of what the inquiry may produce. If he really has nothing to fear then he should leave Mueller well alone.

 

He would cloak it in PR of saving costs as there's no evidence to warrant further investigation.

 

We'd be slack-jawed here wondering whether anyone is ever going to take him to task (properly) for his crookedness but he'd bluster on to the next episode of foot in mouth and then the next one after that and the next one after that. Within 3 weeks, we'll have forgotten that Mueller ever existed.

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

Good, about time.

 

As for Rosenstein, he's out. What happens next though? If Trump acts against Mueller then it's an admission of guilt or at least of great fear of what the inquiry may produce. If he really has nothing to fear then he should leave Mueller well alone.

 

 

The Rosenstein situation gets murkier. Appears he's probably not out after all - at least yet.

[milky_26]

7 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

 

The Rosenstein situation gets murkier. Appears he's probably not out after all - at least yet.

does he have something on trump?

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

37 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

does he have something on trump?

 

Not if you're meaning it in the sense of blackmail, but as Robert Mueller's boss, who knows what he knows.

 

Anyway, Rosenstein is still in a job for now and is scheduled to meet with Trump on Thursday. I suspect this may be an attempt by Trump to deflect attention away from the Kavanaugh / Ford hearings that will also be taking place on Thursday.

[redjambo]

57 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

 

The Rosenstein situation gets murkier. Appears he's probably not out after all - at least yet.

 

Just back in. That's unexpected - I fully expected him to be out the door by the time I got back. Trump is perhaps under pressure from elements of the Republican Party not to be seen to be influencing due process (normally, getting rid of Rosenstein wouldn't be considered that, but given the Mueller enquiry I think that it would be in this case).

[Sharpie]

My understanding is that before the meeting with Kelly,< Rosenstein made it clear that he was not going to resign he would have to be fired. Is there a possibility that was what he told Kelly, and Kelly figured if Trump wants him fired he can do it. Woodwards book, and lots of comments previously by others is that Trump is a hard man when it comes to saying someone should be fired, but does not have the cajuanas to look them in the face and tell them himself, he is a keyboard hardman. Firing Rosenstein will if it happens open so many doors, some good some bad for the president, regardless the New York States Attorney is going after  Trump, his businesses and his family, and there is nothing at all that even as president he can do about it. They are going to get him now or later, and he can appoint all the people he likes even Kavanaugh but at the end of his presidency, whenever that is  he will be got and got good. He will go down in history as having the most chaotic and c orrupt term in office, to use his own words about everything it will be the biggest the world has ever seen.

[JackLadd]

My guess is Dump will hold fire till after midterms. Mueller will need urgent protection soon. 

[Cade]

UN General Assembly broke into general laughter today during Trumpy's speech to them.

 

The man is a complete clown. 

[peter_hmfc]

48 minutes ago, Cade said:

UN General Assembly broke into general laughter today during Trumpy's speech to them.

 

The man is a complete clown. 

 

The laughing stock of the world.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

It seems as though the NY Times has been the preferred outlet for selective leaks from the Trump admin to try to undermine Rosenstein, with the "what do you want me to do, Andy, record the President?" comment getting reported credulously by them as a serious suggestion. Notably, when Judith Miller was at the Times she was the preferred spot for the Bush admin to slide their WMD "evidence" into the media without scrutiny. The Times are ostensibly "liberal" but mostly they like sucking up to powerful people. They also reported the Rosenstein resignation -- again, pimping their slavishly won "access" and thinking themselves getting a scoop, rather than being used as a mouthpiece. I am so ####### done with that rag.

 

On Kavanaugh, the inimitable Marcy Wheeler had this just now:

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1044604488919785472

 

EDIT: Dang it, things like this used to embed. Okay, text from @emptywheel 

 

Quote

The guy who helped impeach Bill Clinton for a (consensual) blowjob just claimed he couldn't have sexually assaulted anyone because he didn't have vaginal intercourse. (link: https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/09/25/brett-kavanaugh-it-depends-on-what-the-meaning-of-the-phrase-sexual-assault-is/) emptywheel.net/2018/09/25/bre…

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by Ugly American

[Watt-Zeefuik]

3 minutes ago, Barack said:

 

His "brush it off" reaction was impressive. The mask didn't slip.

He's not one of the most successful con men ever for nothing.

[Mark M]

Yup, that would be the same UN that passed x20 resolutions at the only democracy in the Middle East as they did against Assad during the span of Syrian civil war. All whilst appointing the head of the Human Rights Council (who ranted constantly about Trump) from a country (Jordan) that tried to use its power to institute blasphemy laws there and until recently didn't outlaw honour killings in its own back yard. Oh, and the UN also saw it fit to have Saudi chair said council.

 

Yup the UN aren't a walking, talking cabal of despotism and corruption at all. Trump couldn't hold a candle in this respect to half of those jeering him.

 

P.S I seem to not recall much hilarity for Obama when he addressed this upstanding lot and declared, 'the future must not belong to those that slander the Prophet'. It's a serious business this instituting of Al Qaeda's blasphemy standards after all.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Mark M

[Watt-Zeefuik]

7 minutes ago, Barack said:

I'm sure the definition of sexual assault varies in definition from state, to state over there? But:

 

 "In most states sexual assault occurs when there is lack of consent from one of the individuals involved. Consent must take place between two adults who are not incapacitated and can change during any time during the sexual act." 

 

I would hope the esteemed Judge, would be aware of the definition in Connecticut, where he attended Yale.

 

In fact, after looking up a helpful actual definition of that State's laws on sexual assault, I'm almost certain he does. Hence his repeated usage of the phrase.

 

The thing is, though, that the essence of the Clinton impeachment was that he, in answering questions about what was ostensibly an investigation into a real estate deal and a suicide, said under oath that he did not have sex with Monica Lewinsky. His defense was that a blow job wasn't sex.

 

Kavenaugh was on the team that aggressively prosecuted him for that, to the point of farcically impeaching a sitting President over that single bit of testimony. He is now personally using it as a defense.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

20 minutes ago, Mark M said:

Yup, that would be the same UN that passed x20 resolutions at the only democracy in the Middle East as they did against Assad during the span of Syrian civil war. All whilst appointing the head of the Human Rights Council (who ranted constantly about Trump) from a country (Jordan) that tried to use its power to institute blasphemy laws there and until recently didn't outlaw honour killings in its own back yard. Oh, and the UN also saw it fit to have Saudi chair said council.

 

Yup the UN aren't a walking, talking cabal of despotism and corruption at all. Trump couldn't hold a candle in this respect to half of those jeering him.

 

P.S I seem to not recall much hilarity for Obama when he addressed this upstanding lot and declared, 'the future must not belong to those that slander the Prophet'. It's a serious business this instituting of Al Qaeda's blasphemy standards after all.

We've got a live one!

[Watt-Zeefuik]

3 minutes ago, Barack said:

I'm sure the contradiction & hypocrisy, will be further picked up on over there. And in the hearing.

 

On the state laws. The definitions on sexual assault, are remarkably similar in wording in Maryland, where he went to Georgetown, as in Connecticut.

 

Handy.

 

If only I could be sure of that. We've entered some kind of weird bizarro world where independently and institutionally established facts make no difference and the President (among others) make things up without consequence. Hell, Mitch McConnell is bitching about bipartisan norms being violated in the rush to confirm Kavanaugh. This is the same guy that blocked Merrick Garland's nomination for almost a year so they could steal the nomination for Gorsuch. Grassley is grousing about lack of decorum on the committee, after shouting down requests for more than 10 hours to review hundreds of thousands of documents. Tom Cotton is complaining that judges shouldn't get delays -- he's the one who held up a nomination in a snit about Obama until the nominee literally died awaiting confirmation.

 

It seems the only way to hold hypocrisy to account these days is for all of us tor repeat it ad nauseum to keep it from slipping down the memory hole. What a ridiculous time to be alive.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Barack said:

 

His "brush it off" reaction was impressive. The mask didn't slip.

 

But the voice did, if you get the chance listen to that part again.

[Francis Albert]

14 hours ago, peter_hmfc said:

 

The laughing stock of the world.

While his initial remark caused laughter his response of "I wasn't expecting that. But that's OK" brought much more laughter, and a round of applause to boot.

So you could just as well say , perhaps even more accurately, "the world laughs with him".

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

While his initial remark caused laughter his response of "I wasn't expecting that. But that's OK" brought much more laughter, and a round of applause to boot.

So you could just as well say , perhaps even more accurately, "the world laughs with him".

They laughed right at him, right at the blatant lie he told, openly showing their lack of respect for him as a man. There followed an awkward tension, then a release as he made light of the moment. The only good thing a Trumpet could say is that at least he didn't take the huff. But they laughed right at him, something I don't remember ever happening to an American president on the world stage. 

[Francis Albert]

22 minutes ago, Smithee said:

They laughed right at him, right at the blatant lie he told, openly showing their lack of respect for him as a man. There followed an awkward tension, then a release as he made light of the moment. The only good thing a Trumpet could say is that at least he didn't take the huff. But they laughed right at him, something I don't remember ever happening to an American president on the world stage. 

It was a politicians brag about his achievements ... albeit at the extreme end of the almost universal habit of politicians to do that. I am sure he and many of his supporters sincerely believe that the tax bill and establishing a conservative Supreme Court that will outlive his  and a few future presidencies are huge achievements, exceeding many of those of previous administrations.

I doubt if his opinion on his achievements rates as "blatant lie" but if it does it doesn't come in the top 100 blatant lies told to the UN General Assembly. Most of which probably applauded and cheered by much of the audience.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Francis Albert

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

It was a politicians brag about his achievements ... albeit at the extreme end of the almost universal habit of politicians to do that. I am sure he and many of his supporters sincerely believe that the tax bill and the establishing a conservative Supreme Court that will outlive his  and a few future presidencies are huge achievements, exceeding many of those of previous administrations.

I doubt it if his opinion on his achievements rates as "blatant lie" but if it does it doesn't come in the top 100 blatant lies told to the UN General Assembly. Most of which probably applauded and cheered by much of the audience.

 

The American president lacks credibility to such an extent that he's openly laughed at on the world stage. That isn't something you can get away from with a bit of spin. 

[Francis Albert]

Maybe people don't realise how much the UN is hated by much of middle America. Bad enough these folks in Washington telling us what we can and can't do, , but a bunch of foreigners from despotic states lecturing the US and passing endless motions condemning this and that American policy?

The General Assembly laughing at him will have won Trump quite a few votes.

Wouldn't be surprised if the tape featured in his campaign rallies.

 

 

[RobboM]

8 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Maybe people don't realise how much the UN is hated by much of middle America. Bad enough these folks in Washington telling us what we can and can't do, , but a bunch of foreigners from despotic states lecturing the US and passing endless motions condemning this and that American policy?

The General Assembly laughing at him will have won Trump quite a few votes.

Wouldn't be surprised if the tape featured in his campaign rallies.

 

 

Keep it up Smithers! ?

[Francis Albert]

37 minutes ago, RobboM said:

Keep it up Smithers! ?

Misssing the point. They won't need to pretend ... mayben turn up the volume of the laughter.

[Justin Z]

K, Smithers

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

Or Mary, quite contrary.

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Misssing the point. They won't need to pretend ... mayben turn up the volume of the laughter.

We already know Trump could fart in a can and a percentage of Americans would applaud wildly, the point being made here is about the unprecedented levels of open contempt even the western world has for the us president.

 

It's never happened before, the man's a buffoon. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

While his initial remark caused laughter his response of "I wasn't expecting that. But that's OK" brought much more laughter, and a round of applause to boot.

So you could just as well say , perhaps even more accurately, "the world laughs with him".

[Francis Albert]

55 minutes ago, Smithee said:

We already know Trump could fart in a can and a percentage of Americans would applaud wildly, the point being made here is about the unprecedented levels of open contempt even the western world has for the us president.

 

It's never happened before, the man's a buffoon. 

 

Unfortunately that percentage of Americans elected him. And whatever the anti-Trump bubble that delights in his humiliation on the world stage thinks, that percentage of Americans will largely be even more inclined to vote for him because the General Assembly of the United Nations laughs at him.

 

Harsh reality and not very funny (certainly not ROFL funny) but that is the case.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2018 by Francis Albert

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

 

Unfortunately that percentage of Americans elected him. And whatever the anti-Trump bubble that delights in his humiliation on the world stage thinks, that percentage of Americans will largely be even more inclined to vote for him because the General Assembly of the United Nations laughs at him.

 

Harsh reality and not very funny but that is the case.

 

 

Yeah. We know. 

 

The point's STILL about how much respect he's managed to lose for himself, his office, and the electorate that voted for him in the eyes of the world outside america.

 

But I'll stop explaining now, I know you get it, even if you refuse to acknowledge it 

[Unknown user]

29 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

[Sharpie]

3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Maybe people don't realise how much the UN is hated by much of middle America. Bad enough these folks in Washington telling us what we can and can't do, , but a bunch of foreigners from despotic states lecturing the US and passing endless motions condemning this and that American policy?

The General Assembly laughing at him will have won Trump quite a few votes.

Wouldn't be surprised if the tape featured in his campaign rallies.

 

 

I am actually at my lowest ebb about Donald Trump. You regularly refer to other presidents when defending Trump, well I will also. My first memory is of  a kind old man in a wheelchair, who was meeting with Churchill to defeat nazism. I remember another older man who sanctioned use of the first atom bomb to finish the war and get all the boys from the southside area of Edinburgh home from Burma etc. I remember well the tragedy of John Kennedy, the disgrace of Nixon, the whole Vietnam debacle, presidents blamed, and rightly so.  Mebbe I am getting old and the thinking machine is getting worn out but I have never seen a president as so absolutely disfunctional as Donald Trump.

I have watched him, and stupidly spent $25.00 on Fear. Not stupid because the book was bad, but stupid because I was sure when I bought this would not contain good news. For once in my life I was absolutely correct, to read about the incompetence of the man, the lack of trust his staff have in him and the descriptions of his mental, analytic, preparedness for the job are to say the least mind boggling. Words such as moron, liar, idiot, are commonly used when referring to him, a word frequently used in other publications is corrupt.He uses or is prepared to use every power the position offers to conceal his corruption, including if necessary  the power to pardon, appointing people into positions who can/will protect him and his family.

Currently he is putting forward a defence for a Supreme Court nominee who is accused of sexual assault. Trump blatantly offers his respect for the man says the woman is a liar, and gives his personal backing to the appointee. Is this because Trump has been accused of similar sexual interference of women, proudly boasted on TV how he did so because it wa a right offered to male stars in Hollywood. Does the appointment have anything to do with the fact that the candidate has stated in the past that the president should not be subject to subpoeana, investigation or indictment as a sitting president.

As if the above are not enough to cause concern about the state of the world, this described liar, moron, incompetent goes into the august body of world leaders, the United Nations and in his first sentence is mockingly laughed at by the audience, he covers it up with a comment, which was reasonably effective,  then goes on to show he basically disgrees with everything the organisation stands for. He praises the leader of North Korea, a despot who murders his people, and who reports would indicate to everyone but Trump that he is not indeed conforming to the arrangement made in Singapore. However he does see fit regularly now to criticise and ostracise Canada and its Prime Minister. 

Why would I try to think of insulting names for him, his White House staff have covered the full lexicon.

e

[Francis Albert]

17 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Yeah. We know. 

 

The point's STILL about how much respect he's managed to lose for himself, his office, and the electorate that voted for him in the eyes of the world outside america.

 

But I'll stop explaining now, I know you get it, even if you refuse to acknowledge it 

I get it. I acknowledge it. Its just that if getting rid of Trump is the objective (and I am sure that most of us share that objective or desire) it is largely beside the point.

 

The world outside America will not get rid of Trump.

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I get it. I acknowledge it. Its just that if getting rid of Trump is the objective (and I am sure that most of us share that objective or desire) it is largely beside the point.

 

The world outside America will not get rid of Trump.

I have no objective, it's outwith my power, I'm just saying how incredible it is. And it really is. 

[Francis Albert]

7 minutes ago, bobsharp said:

I am actually at my lowest ebb about Donald Trump. You regularly refer to other presidents when defending Trump, well I will also. My first memory is of  a kind old man in a wheelchair, who was meeting with Churchill to defeat nazism. I remember another older man who sanctioned use of the first atom bomb to finish the war and get all the boys from the southside area of Edinburgh home from Burma etc. I remember well the tragedy of John Kennedy, the disgrace of Nixon, the whole Vietnam debacle, presidents blamed, and rightly so.  Mebbe I am getting old and the thinking machine is getting worn out but I have never seen a president as so absolutely disfunctional as Donald Trump.

I have watched him, and stupidly spent $25.00 on Fear. Not stupid because the book was bad, but stupid because I was sure when I bought this would not contain good news. For once in my life I was absolutely correct, to read about the incompetence of the man, the lack of trust his staff have in him and the descriptions of his mental, analytic, preparedness for the job are to say the least mind boggling. Words such as moron, liar, idiot, are commonly used when referring to him, a word frequently used in other publications is corrupt.He uses or is prepared to use every power the position offers to conceal his corruption, including if necessary  the power to pardon, appointing people into positions who can/will protect him and his family.

Currently he is putting forward a defence for a Supreme Court nominee who is accused of sexual assault. Trump blatantly offers his respect for the man says the woman is a liar, and gives his personal backing to the appointee. Is this because Trump has been accused of similar sexual interference of women, proudly boasted on TV how he did so because it wa a right offered to male stars in Hollywood. Does the appointment have anything to do with the fact that the candidate has stated in the past that the president should not be subject to subpoeana, investigation or indictment as a sitting president.

As if the above are not enough to cause concern about the state of the world, this described liar, moron, incompetent goes into the august body of world leaders, the United Nations and in his first sentence is mockingly laughed at by the audience, he covers it up with a comment, which was reasonably effective,  then goes on to show he basically disgrees with everything the organisation stands for. He praises the leader of North Korea, a despot who murders his people, and who reports would indicate to everyone but Trump that he is not indeed conforming to the arrangement made in Singapore. However he does see fit regularly now to criticise and ostracise Canada and its Prime Minister. 

Why would I try to think of insulting names for him, his White House staff have covered the full lexicon.

e

Where have I defended Trump? Criticising some of his more ineffective and counterproductive critics (among whom I should say I am emphatically not including you) is not the same as defending him.

[Francis Albert]

Just now, Smithee said:

I have no objective, it's outwith my power, I'm just saying how incredible it is. And it really is. 

OK I meant the objective which we would all support.Even if it is outwith our power.

I don't think the contempt of much of the world is in the least incredible.

 

[Sharpie]

5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

OK I meant the objective which we would all support.Even if it is outwith our power.

I don't think the contempt of much of the world is in the least incredible.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Where have I defended Trump? Criticising some of his more ineffective and counterproductive critics (among whom I should say I am emphatically not including you) is not the same as defending him.

 

I guess it has a lot to do with what the writer feels he is writing, and what the reader feels he is reading.

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, bobsharp said:

 

 

I guess it has a lot to do with what the writer feels he is writing, and what the reader feels he is reading.

And I would of course say it has a lot to do with what the writer writes and what the reader reads into what he writes.