Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, Victorian said: A bit more credibility to this now so fair play. It's a tangible thing to have recruited across the house. Sarah Wollaston especially is a top performer and the best of the cross party bunch thus far. It surely had to happen. The current state of UK politics is dreadful and something drastic was needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: It surely had to happen. The current state of UK politics is dreadful and something drastic was needed. It's interesting. It could either snowball and become a party (eventually) or it may hit a glass ceiling of self interest. Evolution in progress perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I would think the pool of possible Tory defectors is pretty limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Victorian said: It's interesting. It could either snowball and become a party (eventually) or it may hit a glass ceiling of self interest. Evolution in progress perhaps. Also interesting to see how it plays out in Scotland. Ruth Davidson was mooted as being a potential leader...(says it all imo!)...but I wonder what impact they would have up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Victorian said: I would think the pool of possible Tory defectors is pretty limited. Would agree with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 The 48.1% of the electorate didn't vote for economic suicide / Brexit have not really had a proportionate voice in Parliament since the referendum. Whether the Independent Group becomes that remains to be seen, but credit to these guys for leaving the relative safety of established political parties to take what would seem on the face of it, a principled risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 27 minutes ago, Victorian said: I would think the pool of possible Tory defectors is pretty limited. Philip Lea Dominic Grieve Would be my two to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 31 minutes ago, Boris said: Also interesting to see how it plays out in Scotland. Ruth Davidson was mooted as being a potential leader...(says it all imo!)...but I wonder what impact they would have up here. If it becomes a party then eating into the SNP Westminster bloc could create a whole new parliamentary dynamic with coalition governments the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, JamboX2 said: Philip Lea Dominic Grieve Would be my two to watch. There could be 2 or 3 but it's very limited. There could be far more frim Labour. An imbalance that could prove problematic if it's public face is seen as Alt-Labour (+ friends). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Jumping the gun of course because creating the infrastructure of a party capable of contesting a nationwide election is a mammoth undertaking. This is really just them at 1% of the way there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 hours ago, XB52 said: Another Zionist quits labour, hardly surprising. Shes scum. Glad she has left...Labour will be revitalised by getting rid of the enemy within like people like her.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, Victorian said: Jumping the gun of course because creating the infrastructure of a party capable of contesting a nationwide election is a mammoth undertaking. This is really just them at 1% of the way there. ....and the Independent Group could of course, be wiped out in a snap election called in the mean time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 The Labour part of TIG only resigned in order to try to force Labour to get rid of Corbyn. 100% they'll re-enter the party if he is forced out. It's pathetic really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Deeds Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: Shes scum. Glad she has left...Labour will be revitalised by getting rid of the enemy within like people like her.... Revitalised in every way apart from the ballot box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Deeds Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Martin_T said: ....and the Independent Group could of course, be wiped out in a snap election called in the mean time. As would Labour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Geoff the Mince said: Never knew George Galloway was on Kback . she is head of the labour friends of israel (well she was until yesterday) so is a zionist; nobody can deny that surely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Mind last time there was a snap election and everybody agreed that Corbyn was unelectable and the Tories were going to carry a landslide? Mind what the result was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Cade said: Mind last time there was a snap election and everybody agreed that Corbyn was unelectable and the Tories were going to carry a landslide? Mind what the result was? We'd get another hung parliament. Corbyn isn't going to make up much ground in this state. Zero reasons to vote for May either, other than the fact that it keeps out a bellend like Corbyn. You'd like to think that the entire country would refuse to vote en masse. I'd probably go for the Green Party tbh. **** knows why but it seems better than the alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 36 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: Shes scum. Glad she has left...Labour will be revitalised by getting rid of the enemy within like people like her.... Mate, that sorta language is madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Lord BJ said: That is very interesting and again quite daming statements. The fact that mp’s from both sides are flipping is a good thing imo. Though it does seem all that unites them is their desire for ‘people’s vote’ and annoyance at current position of Westminster. Will be interesting to see how many more move. Rumoured more labour mp’s to follow. I think the new chances of a party are limited. However, their is a real desire for change in public and maybe they can take advantage of it. I’m sure I was reading about a new party forming in a European country and managed to win majority in their parliament at I think their first attempt. Maybe they can do something similar? Having more than 2 parties that could form a government would be a massive improvement. Would look like a good move for the Tories as it did when SDP spilt in 1980s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said: Mate, that sorta language is madness. People are honestly losing it. I've been following Shan dot Liarson on Twitter for the last week. The boy's an attention seeking weirdo and one of many people who need help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, Cade said: Mind last time there was a snap election and everybody agreed that Corbyn was unelectable and the Tories were going to carry a landslide? Mind what the result was? Corbyn with fairer coverage for policies went from 20% behind Tories to 2% short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: It surely had to happen. The current state of UK politics is dreadful and something drastic was needed. This isn't drastic, it's SDP 2 and will simply result in greater overcrowding in the centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said: This isn't drastic, it's SDP 2 and will simply result in greater overcrowding in the centre. The centre is pretty much empty though, in terms of the power in Labour/Conservative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Geoff the Mince said: Why would you believe the one BBC guy about Douma over the 100s who said it was a chemical attack ? This is where we would be digressing but your question is totally valid given the background of fake news. Perhaps this guy should be taken seriously though as he is the Syria producer and he was actually there and investigated the circumstances around the events with what appears to be a great deal of rigour. His findings also confirm what other independently minded journalists who were also there, reported i.e Fisk Bartlett and Beeley to name a few. Even Christopher Hitchins was so unconvinced of the the BBC/mainstream narrative that he decided to read the chemical weapons inspectorate report and he concluded that the mainstream interpretation was misleading i.e. that there was no evidence of chemical attack in Douma and that where in one case at least, chemical attacks had occurred it was more likely that they had been deployed by the rebels. It is not the number of people subscribing to one view that gives it credibility it is the quality of the evidence. These people were on the ground, at the time ,generally the BBC were not but they did send us reports from Beirut which is not that far away and comment and analysis from the Syrian observatory on human rights which operates from a private house in England and is operated by a man who had not been in Syria for more than 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 14 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said: Mate, that sorta language is madness. You do know there is a video of one of the " hateful 8" now 11 of talking with Israeli officials and being offered over a Million pounds to discredit Labour and JC ??? Maybe you missed that report since its highly unlikely the BBC would report it. Her name is Joan Ryan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, JamboX2 said: Is it not more because his view adheres to your view rather than whether he is right or not? It's not state funded like RT. It is funded by the licence fee and has freedom to spend its money independently under the Royal Charter. Corbyn's view is similar to mine but i formed my view on the evidence i could find. Confirmation bias perhaps but nevertheless i believe the view i hold to be the most plausible and if Corbyn holds a similar view for whatever reason then fair enough. The BBC is effectively state funded albiet in a different way to RT. The threat to remove the licence fee by Tories over the years might just have affected it's objectivity. They certainly lack it where Corbyn is concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 56 minutes ago, Martin_T said: ....and the Independent Group could of course, be wiped out in a snap election called in the mean time. They would all campaign as independent candidates. Some might hold their seats. Others might not. Tend to think the Tory ones would find it harder against a more concrete Tory Party voting dogma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) How does a Group with 11 members get 14% of all the votes and the 91 seats in Parliament that extrapolates out to? Opinion polls mean shite all. (as we've seen in the last two major referenda and general elections) Edited February 20, 2019 by Cade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 14% would not normally be high enough to win many seats, if any at all. The next election would see many sitting ex-Lab / ex-Con MPs standing as IG. A disproportionate vote share for these MPs is most likely. But new candidates would find it difficult until the overall vote intention share rises to about 20-22% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, Victorian said: 14% would not normally be high enough to win many seats, if any at all. The next election would see many sitting ex-Lab / ex-Con MPs standing as IG. A disproportionate vote share for these MPs is most likely. But new candidates would find it difficult until the overall vote intention share rises to about 20-22% The only way this can work if for enough MPs with solid voter bases in their constituencies joining the breakaway. They'll be relying on people voting for people rather than parties - although given the shambles that both major parties are now, it's not so unrealistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Watching the live broadcast and im surprised im tending to agree with a lot of what they are saying. Clearly stating May has been held to ransom by the right and they dont want to be part of it. I know principles and politicians dont go together but least they are making a statement. Now they need to outline a manifesto and let the voters decide. Thats democracy . Probably still veering to Toryish policies and ideology but i did admire Allens statement about the current Govt welfare agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: Watching the live broadcast and im surprised im tending to agree with a lot of what they are saying. Clearly stating May has been held to ransom by the right and they dont want to be part of it. I know principles and politicians dont go together but least they are making a statement. Now they need to outline a manifesto and let the voters decide. Thats democracy . Probably still veering to Toryish policies and ideology but i did admire Allens statement about the current Govt welfare agenda. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: This. and? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: and? I'm saying I agree with you. A lot of what they said makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Their resignation letter is absolutely spot. As I said earlier, just who is exactly has been representing and acting in the interests of the 48.1% of voters (minus @Francis Albert of course) who voted for the UK to stay in the EU? 16 million odd people ignored and dis-respected. When one party lurches to the right and the other to the left in what is essentially a two party system, we desperately need representation for those who don't hold extreme views either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: I'm saying I agree with you. A lot of what they said makes sense. Ok sorry i didn't understand the " this " comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, Martin_T said: Their resignation letter is absolutely spot. As I said earlier, just who is exactly has been representing and acting in the interests of the 48.1% of voters (minus @Francis Albert of course) who voted for the UK to stay in the EU? 16 million odd people ignored and dis-respected. When one party lurches to the right and the other to the left in what is essentially a two party system, we desperately need representation for those who don't hold extreme views either way. Bascially, a hell of a lot of people in the UK think May and Corbyn are ***** and dislike what they stand for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, JamesM48 said: You do know there is a video of one of the " hateful 8" now 11 of talking with Israeli officials and being offered over a Million pounds to discredit Labour and JC ??? Maybe you missed that report since its highly unlikely the BBC would report it. Her name is Joan Ryan. Is this what your refer to; https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israeli-diplomat-worked-inside-labour-discredit-crazy-corbyn She wasn't offered a million pound to discredit Labour and Corbyn from my reading. It seems more like you're mixing several aspects of the story up. I'll admit I've not watched the full video though, only read the article as I'm in work. Anyway, I don't want to get into a debate over this sort of thing. My original point is using language like scum and enemy etc is a worry trend I see these days and contributes to the really polarised world we are living in. All imo. Edited February 20, 2019 by AlphonseCapone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, Lord BJ said: That’s the thing it’s difficult to tell how this plays out. Let’s remember they’re not even a political party. So the question is very hypothetical. However, take a single poll, as it’s all we have. 21% would be between IG and Lib Dem’s. So maybe their is a demand for this if seen as credible alternate to big two. Lots could happen that that strengthens their position quickly. I don’t think the Lib Dem’s joining them in some shape of form is beyond possibility. They’ll be even further marginalised and might believe in working together. It seems very likely that more mp’s will flip. The more who flip, will give them a platform to build from. Particulary if there are some high profile moves. Enough tory mp’s flip and there is no majority for any leaving strategy, they could become influential enough to get an amendment for a second vote for TM deal or remain. Whilst, the current parties and particulary their leaders are seen as toxic by a lot of voters. They could take advantage of that also. Not saying it will happen but it’s not inconceivable they could change stuff, I think the primary driver for all this, despite cries of traitors etc, is they all want to stop brexit. The rest will be figured out down the line. I wish them every luck in the world with that goal. The Liberal Dems would do anything to get any crumb of power so expect an announcement fairly soon they are joining them too...and as you say I think it will snowball with others following...something had to give and this is the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: That’s the thing it’s difficult to tell how this plays out. Let’s remember they’re not even a political party. So the question is very hypothetical. However, take a single poll, as it’s all we have. 21% would be between IG and Lib Dem’s. So maybe their is a demand for this if seen as credible alternate to big two. Lots could happen that that strengthens their position quickly. I don’t think the Lib Dem’s joining them in some shape of form is beyond possibility. They’ll be even further marginalised and might believe in working together. Re voting and percentages, at the 1983 general election the SDP/Liberal Alliance polled 25 % of the vote nationwide, yet only returned 23 MPs. This surge affected Labour most, thus resulting in a Tory landslide. I suppose it's where that 25% is focussed as to whether it translates to seats though, under FPTP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) "War criminal and traitors are us".. should be this new juntas message, This new party is going to one feck fest of traitors and also a a war criminal. Its easy to dig up peoples past records and actions. These people are counting on that their past is ignored or not dug up. They thrive on ignorance and the zipped up the back mob backing them Tony Blair tipped to be next to join Independent Group The latest to jump a one Joan Ryan, anything in her past then.. oops there is. Joan Ryan was filmed with an Israeli embassy worker at the Labour Party conference talking about receiving 1 million pounds in return for Labour insiders to undermine Jeremy Corbyn and any pro-Corbyn MPs. Any former ‘Labour’ MP prepared to welcome someone like Anna Soubrey with this record into their new party was never a Labour MP to begin with. Speaking of Anna Soubrey any thing in her past..opps yes there is. Dont be fooled by her working class accent . The new red tory party is forming. Edited February 20, 2019 by maroonlegions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Wm imploding. The SNP must be giving it big . Easy!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, ri Alban said: Wm imploding. The SNP must be giving it big . Easy!!!!!!!!! They should offer a home for any disaffected MPs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Boris said: They should offer a home for any disaffected MPs! They should stand back and watch Rome burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff the Mince Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 3 hours ago, XB52 said: she is head of the labour friends of israel (well she was until yesterday) so is a zionist; nobody can deny that surely Are Ed Milliband , David Lammy and Emily Thornberry also Zionists ? They support the group . Do you hate everything Israeli ? They have a name for that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff the Mince Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 43 minutes ago, maroonlegions said: "War criminal and traitors are us".. should be this new juntas message, This new party is going to one feck fest of traitors and also a a war criminal. Its easy to dig up peoples past records and actions. These people are counting on that their past is ignored or not dug up. They thrive on ignorance and the zipped up the back mob backing them Tony Blair tipped to be next to join Independent Group The latest to jump a one Joan Ryan, anything in her past then.. oops there is. Joan Ryan was filmed with an Israeli embassy worker at the Labour Party conference talking about receiving 1 million pounds in return for Labour insiders to undermine Jeremy Corbyn and any pro-Corbyn MPs. Any former ‘Labour’ MP prepared to welcome someone like Anna Soubrey with this record into their new party was never a Labour MP to begin with. Speaking of Anna Soubrey any thing in her past..opps yes there is. Dont be fooled by her working class accent . The new red tory party is forming. It would be nice it you offered your own views instead of stupid and usually incorrect memes . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 15 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said: It would be nice it you offered your own views instead of stupid and usually incorrect memes . BOT springs to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 The Blairites will do absolutely anything to hold on to their comfy way of control and influence even if it meant forming a new party. We have had a couple of golden opportunities of backing the left, and we have deliberately backed down letting the tories persecute the poor. Kinnock could have backed Hatton, and caused chaos for thatcher, but Kinnock was thinking of his glorious future.And Mandelson, Johnson Blair Hillary Benn, or who ever thought up 172 resignations, could have backed JC and forced a No confidence vote straight after the Brexit vote. Of course, this is an establishment effort to prevent JC getting power, but just like JC attracting more because of what he is since 2015, I hope this will bring even more because of what we are not, -----Self serving mealy mouthed bullies, who shout Bully or anti-semetic racist every time they are called out. Watching PMQs today I am incensed that I am being described by "ASSOCIATION" as institutionally Anti-Semitic just because i believe in Corbyns polices for the many and not the few. The far right and red tories within the Labour party are fecking shiting a Corbyn lead Labour, government. One thing to come out of this though is that its smoking out the red tories within the Labour party. 12 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said: It would be nice it you offered your own views instead of stupid and usually incorrect memes . 12 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said: It would be nice it you offered your own views instead of stupid and usually incorrect memes . So what is incorrect with these last memes then , or are they just pissing you and the rest of red tories off because they are factual. It would be nice it you could stop nick picking on some of my posts that sometimes just contain memes and no views of my own. That is what you are doing though, sneaky trolling, sad as feck. You really want me to embarrass you and show you my posts on here that DO contain my own SUPPORTING views with supporting memes as well. There have been other posters on here who have posted memes only sweet cheeks, dont see you trolling them. It would be nice if you could be more consistent, and i dare say ,more fairer ,(than this current Tory junta), when it come to your pedantic slaverings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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