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jake

Barely fit for opposition never mind government.

And they are the ones with the slogan about politics being broken.

?

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ri Alban
5 hours ago, jake said:

Barely fit for opposition never mind government.

And they are the ones with the slogan about politics being broken.

?

Don't blame Labour for the shite that's happening now.

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doctor jambo
4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Don't blame Labour for the shite that's happening now.

They are responsible, as they have utterly failed to provide credible opposition . 

They are not an electable opponent.

 

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jamboy1982

Unfortunately all the British parties are completely unelectable. The tories, labour, Lib Dem’s...

 

theres only one party with Scotland’s interests at heart. 

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Harry Potter
4 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said:

Unfortunately all the British parties are completely unelectable. The tories, labour, Lib Dem’s...

 

theres only one party with Scotland’s interests at heart. 

They are all a waste of space, its all about looking after themselves.

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The Old Tolbooth

I thought Corbyn would be a breath of fresh air, I like his ideas, I like his policies, but the man has absolutely zero backbone and would be worse in charge than even Theresa May, any half decent opposition to an absolute shambolic car crash of a Tory Party right now would be at least 10 points clear in the opinion polls, he's missed so many open goals I'm beginning to think he's Hans Eskillson in disguise! They should just change their name to the Pointless Abstaining Party (PAP for short), because that's all they're good for these days. 

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Ibrahim Tall

Tbh if Labour are clever they'll let the Torys have enough rope to hang thenselves at the moment. 'Brexit' isn't deliverable in a way that anyone will ever be happy with whoever is in power, they'd be better staying out at the moment and letting the Conservatives take the bullet for whatever scenario plays out as it could cripple them for a long time.

 

That said, I think Corbyns inaction is more down to being useless than tactics.

Edited by Ibrahim Tall

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Restonbabe

It's a sad but very interesting time in politics. 

May has lost any chance of power within her party. 

Considering the Tories don't even hold a majority says there will be yet another snap election very early next year imo. 

 

I don't believe they will ever get an agreement passed through the house. 

 

Two long years of infighting between brexit and remainers has scuppered any real chance of progression. 

The amount of scaremongering from remainers has caused the pound to crash to 1.1 against the euro. 

That won't improve until someone grows a backbone and takes control of the negotiations. 

How hard can it be to shove two fingers up to 27 people and tell them this is what is going to happen. 

Accept these terms or were leaving. 

Remainers have to accept the fact that the democratic outcome of the vote. 

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Ibrahim Tall
2 minutes ago, Restonbabe said:

It's a sad but very interesting time in politics. 

May has lost any chance of power within her party. 

Considering the Tories don't even hold a majority says there will be yet another snap election very early next year imo. 

 

I don't believe they will ever get an agreement passed through the house. 

 

Two long years of infighting between brexit and remainers has scuppered any real chance of progression. 

The amount of scaremongering from remainers has caused the pound to crash to 1.1 against the euro. 

That won't improve until someone grows a backbone and takes control of the negotiations. 

How hard can it be to shove two fingers up to 27 people and tell them this is what is going to happen. 

Accept these terms or were leaving.

Remainers have to accept the fact that the democratic outcome of the vote. 

 

It's that attitude that's part of the reason for the current failure in negotiations tbh.

The EU don't 'owe' The UK any deal, let alone a good one. UK voted 'leave' not Europe.

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doctor jambo

The conservatives don't have an agreed position within their own party.

Labour don't either.

The public are divided and the Brexiteers also don't have a fixed position amongst themselves.

Its an absolute horror show.

 

The one thing I would say- if the SNP called another ref at the moment I would vote for independence, and that is not something I would ever have thought.

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I P Knightley
6 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

 

It's that attitude that's part of the reason for the current failure in negotiations tbh.

The EU don't 'owe' The UK any deal, let alone a good one. UK voted 'leave' not Europe.

Correct.

 

I'm astounded by the number of people who think either (a) that EU is in any way upset that the UK will (might) leave or (b ) that we're somehow entitled to dictate terms. We're strong within Europe; on the outside, we're beginners.

 

However, back on topic - Labour under Corbyn have shown themselves to be unfit for government. They should be wiping the floor with this awful lot we've got in power but I really doubt whether they'd win more seats in a GE than the Tories, no matter who was leading the latter.

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Marvin
5 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Don't blame Labour for the shite that's happening now.

 

Correct even though you can't trust them to sort this Brexit disaster out.

 

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El Diez

An embarrassment to the name.

 

During Mays speech yesterday I found myself getting riled at times by the way in which she was almost sneering at the backbenchers.

 

Then Corbyn spoke and his ineptitude shown through.

 

Neither of them fit for government and if there was another independence referendum tomorrow I’d vote yes in a ****in heartbeat.

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IronJambo
1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

The conservatives don't have an agreed position within their own party.

Labour don't either.

The public are divided and the Brexiteers also don't have a fixed position amongst themselves.

Its an absolute horror show.

 

The one thing I would say- if the SNP called another ref at the moment I would vote for independence, and that is not something I would ever have thought.

It's interesting that you recognise there's a shit show going on, yet to escape it you would choose to leave the UK AND the EU (with no deal).

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Geoff the Mince

I would rather have Labour in power than these bunch of money grabbing egotistical  leeches !!  And i aint a big fan of Labour .

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doctor jambo
13 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

It's interesting that you recognise there's a shit show going on, yet to escape it you would choose to leave the UK AND the EU (with no deal).

 

Its pretty simple- the ONLY strong leadership, the only leadership with any direction or semblance of statesmanship is coming from the SNP.

If the only way of ending the immature snipe fest that is going on in England (as that is the core of the problem) is to stay in the EU as part of indy Scotland then so be it.

The UK needs a LEADER.

LAbour needs one, the Conservatives need one..

Corbyn + Lennard = mess

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FWJ
7 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Don't blame Labour for the shite that's happening now.

They picked the wrong brother.

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Seymour M Hersh
25 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

 

Its pretty simple- the ONLY strong leadership, the only leadership with any direction or semblance of statesmanship is coming from the SNP.

If the only way of ending the immature snipe fest that is going on in England (as that is the core of the problem) is to stay in the EU as part of indy Scotland then so be it.

The UK needs a LEADER.

LAbour needs one, the Conservatives need one..

Corbyn + Lennard = mess

 

The basic problem is the intellectual and economic pygmies who infest politics nowadays. Politics is seen as a career choicely some in school now. So from their teens they are absorbed the political bubble and never even get within nodding terms with the reality the rest of us live in, and for me, that's wrong. 

Edited by Seymour M Hersh

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IronJambo
50 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

 

Its pretty simple- the ONLY strong leadership, the only leadership with any direction or semblance of statesmanship is coming from the SNP.

If the only way of ending the immature snipe fest that is going on in England (as that is the core of the problem) is to stay in the EU as part of indy Scotland then so be it.

The UK needs a LEADER.

LAbour needs one, the Conservatives need one..

Corbyn + Lennard = mess

Indie Scotland wouldn't be in the EU.

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I P Knightley
2 hours ago, El Diez said:

Neither of them fit for government and if there was another independence referendum tomorrow I’d vote yes in a ****in heartbeat.

I would have voted against Independence last time round for the same reason I voted against Brexit - no one made a well-argued logical reason to leave; it was a massive leap in the dark, encouraged by idealists who weren't trying to hide the chips on their shoulders and what we had, we understood and, for all its faults, was not doing out-and-out harm.

 

However, it's clear that what we have now is bleak and desperate. It's not just a choice between May's tories and Corbyn's Labour; what's lurking in the wings is equally desperate - perhaps more so. I have no time for the SNP or Sturgeon but there's a sense of purpose and direction which we just don't have in Westminster.

 

If there were another indyref in the coming months, I suspect it would succeed. Not because it's become a better proposition in absolute terms but because the rest of the UK is going to be in the shite after this fiasco, whatever the outcome. I'll be digging out my C U Jimmy bunnet and making my way home.

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I P Knightley
3 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

Indie Scotland wouldn't be in the EU.

Why not?

 

I know that Salmond was talking shite last time round about currencies and EU membership but surely if the EU was prepared to negotiate some kind of settlement with the UK, they'd be prepared to have a chat with Scotland post-Brexit? I mean, ffs, they tolerate Bulgaria, Portugal and Ireland; surely they'd let Scotland come to the table?

 

And Latvia.

 

Their standards aren't that high :D

 

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doctor jambo
7 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

Indie Scotland wouldn't be in the EU.

I think it would.

end if the day Europeans love the Scots , and don't like the English - always seems that way on holiday.

keep us and isolate them ? They'd bite yer hand off!

solve the Irish backstop - there'd be a hard border between Scotland and England 

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Gambo
15 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

Indie Scotland wouldn't be in the EU.

I'd vote for that.

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jumpship

The Labour party are an utter joke, their grass roots councillors are a bunch of gammon faced British nationalists, who don't give a toss about anything or anyone. MSP's are useless and nothing but a front for the unions... and the ones down in London are not in touch with reality... 

 

 

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Cruyff Turn

Labour are a joke. In Scotland they are nothing more than a puppet organisation. 

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doctor jambo
5 minutes ago, Gambo said:

I'd vote for that.

And there lies the problem of referenda ,

there are too many variables to have in a simple 2 option choice.

the public has NO idea what it wants and those we elect have no clear outcomes in mind that could be distilled down.

All you can do is either maintain the status quo, or break entirely with that , and start from scratch with a blank canvas.

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doctor jambo

Labour should have had some guts on this, and indicated that for the sake of the working people of this country then they take a remain position.

But they wont- because the current leadership are on a crusade. Mcdonnell, Corbyn and Abbott .

Can you imagine that trio in power?

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Ibrahim Tall
34 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

Indie Scotland wouldn't be in the EU.

 

It probably would tbh, they're effectively keeping a non-independent Northern Ireland in via the backstop. If they could 'retain' Scotland also they'd probably be more than happy.

 

The arguments for rejection of the Indyref aren't really relevant anymore, it may only be a few years but it's a lifetime ago with some of the huge changes that have happened since. I.e. Brexit.

Edited by Ibrahim Tall

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IronJambo
51 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

Why not?

 

I know that Salmond was talking shite last time round about currencies and EU membership but surely if the EU was prepared to negotiate some kind of settlement with the UK, they'd be prepared to have a chat with Scotland post-Brexit? I mean, ffs, they tolerate Bulgaria, Portugal and Ireland; surely they'd let Scotland come to the table?

 

And Latvia.

 

Their standards aren't that high :D

 

Let's say Scotland left the UK today, they'd also be leaving the EU. If they left the Union post Brexit then they've already have left. 

I'm not saying they wouldn't get in eventually but it clearly wouldn't be as simple as just stepping in.

In the short term of that they'd be in a precarious position since over 60% of their trade is with the UK that they'd just left behind. All whilst suffering a no deal with the EU who only account to a quarter of their trade with the UK. To think that there are people out there that think Brexit is the worst idea ever.

Edited by IronJambo

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Governor Tarkin
1 hour ago, FWJ said:

They picked the wrong brother.

 

Said that at the time.

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doctor jambo
33 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

Let's say Scotland left the UK today, they'd also be leaving the EU. If they left the Union post Brexit then they've already have left. 

I'm not saying they wouldn't get in eventually but it clearly wouldn't be as simple as just stepping in.

In the short term of that they'd be in a precarious position since over 60% of their trade is with the UK that they'd just left behind. All whilst suffering a no deal with the EU who only account to a quarter of their trade with the UK. To think that there are people out there that think Brexit is the worst idea ever.

Its all so unnecessary, all of it.

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doctor jambo
30 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Said that at the time.

That was the first indicator that the left in Labour was hell bent on destroying the moderates, they have merely continued this.

A brutal act of self harm

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Ibrahim Tall
24 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

Let's say Scotland left the UK today, they'd also be leaving the EU. If they left the Union post Brexit then they've already have left. 

I'm not saying they wouldn't get in eventually but it clearly wouldn't be as simple as just stepping in.

In the short term of that they'd be in a precarious position since over 60% of their trade is with the UK that they'd just left behind. All whilst suffering a no deal with the EU who only account to a quarter of their trade with the UK. To think that there are people out there that think Brexit is the worst idea ever.

 

Arguably not, the 'successor state' idea Sturgeon floated wasn't completely without merit. 

It may have been a British vote but Scotland and N Ireland did as part of UK vote 'remain', and it's pretty debatable the remaining 'UK' would even continue to exist if Scotland left to claim itself as a 'successor'(and if it did why would it even want to if it was leaving?). 

 

 

It wouldn't be simple at all but it's not an impossibility. 

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maroonlegions
5 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

They are responsible, as they have utterly failed to provide credible opposition . 

They are not an electable opponent.

 

Dont worry the bent corrupt May and her advisers  and spin doctors are on it  you will be pleased to know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

safe_image.php?d=AQBKryVv9GeNloBT&w=540&
 

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doctor jambo
Just now, maroonlegions said:

Dont worry the bent corrupt May and her advisers  and spin doctors are on it  you will be pleased to know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

safe_image.php?d=AQBKryVv9GeNloBT&w=540&
 

She would lose, we all know it.

But Labour would not win it outright, we all know it.

Corbyn would portray that as a "win", but in reality the public would lose again.

Replace Corbyn with a moderate who can get folks like me to vote for them and Labour could win it, but they are held in thrall by an unelectable minority

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JamboX2
27 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

 

Arguably not, the 'successor state' idea Sturgeon floated wasn't completely without merit. 

It may have been a British vote but Scotland and N Ireland did as part of UK vote 'remain', and it's pretty debatable the remaining 'UK' would even continue to exist if Scotland left to claim itself as a 'successor'(and if it did why would it even want to if it was leaving?). 

 

 

It wouldn't be simple at all but it's not an impossibility. 

 

I don't think the successor state line would float. I reckon Spain would veto that approach as they'd not want Catalonia arguing that line.

 

Either way, there'll be no Indy vote till after this process ends. So it'll be a vote after we've left the EU. In effect it'll be free for Scotland to choose it's membership or not. But that'll be without any opt-outs the UK enjoys.

 

Imo the SNP will in a post-Brexit world likely opt for EFTA. Or end up there.

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maroonlegions
25 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

That was the first indicator that the left in Labour was hell bent on destroying the moderates, they have merely continued this.

A brutal act of self harm

What you mean hell bent on getting the all the red Tories like the Balarities told , and made to stop slating their ELECTED Labour leader Corbyn???

 

At least their is still DEMOCRACY in the Labour party, tell me what party  has the most infighting on Brexit just now. There has always been a left of centre  within the Labour party and they have always been slated. The tide has turned now and the Blarites and red Tories within the Labour party dont like it. Labour party members voted Corbyn  in as leader of the Labour party by a big majority, get over it.

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Ibrahim Tall
2 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

She would lose, we all know it.

But Labour would not win it outright, we all know it.

Corbyn would portray that as a "win", but in reality the public would lose again.

Replace Corbyn with a moderate who can get folks like me to vote for them and Labour could win it, but they are held in thrall by an unelectable minority

 

Is there any 'moderates' left though? They've chased most of what was electable out the party and replaced them with people that wouldn't stand a chance of being leader.

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Section Q
4 hours ago, El Diez said:

An embarrassment to the name.

 

During Mays speech yesterday I found myself getting riled at times by the way in which she was almost sneering at the backbenchers.

 

Then Corbyn spoke and his ineptitude shown through.

 

Neither of them fit for government and if there was another independence referendum tomorrow I’d vote yes in a ****in heartbeat.

Still take Corbyn before May....!

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maroonlegions
4 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

She would lose, we all know it.

But Labour would not win it outright, we all know it.

Corbyn would portray that as a "win", but in reality the public would lose again.

Replace Corbyn with a moderate who can get folks like me to vote for them and Labour could win it, but they are held in thrall by an unelectable minority

Nope, you are either want the Tories out or you dont, no half measures are required here and if Corbyn is leader then you still vote Labour. 

 

Those that sit on the fence, (LIB DEMS), are the ones who gave us Cameron, the ones that made it possible for all his shite and Brexit. 

 

Give me Corbun over Blair any day.

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maroonlegions
3 minutes ago, Section Q said:

Still take Corbyn before May....!

:thumbsup:

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doctor jambo
4 minutes ago, Section Q said:

Still take Corbyn before May....!

Punched in the  nuts , or kicked in the nuts,

That's the choice.

Neither thanks.

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doctor jambo
3 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

Nope, you are either want the Tories out or you dont, no half measures are required here and if Corbyn is leader then you still vote Labour. 

 

Those that sit on the fence, (LIB DEMS), are the ones who gave us Cameron, the ones that made it possible for all his shite and Brexit. 

 

Give me Corbun over Blair any day.

Sorry, I'm not escaping a fire by leaping off a cliff.

Labour are at least as culpable, in that they don't present an electable alternative.

Blair would have won the last GE by a landslide, as would david Milliband, Starmer and so on.

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maroonlegions
Just now, doctor jambo said:

Punched in the  nuts , or kicked in the nuts,

That's the choice.

Neither thanks.

 

And there we have it, a pure  red poker up the sun dont shine.

 

Cameron  has no fecking regrets, what a cretin.

 

 

 

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Ibrahim Tall
Just now, JamboX2 said:

 

I don't think the successor state line would float. I reckon Spain would veto that approach as they'd not want Catalonia arguing that line.

 

Either way, there'll be no Indy vote till after this process ends. So it'll be a vote after we've left the EU. In effect it'll be free for Scotland to choose it's membership or not. But that'll be without any opt-outs the UK enjoys.

 

Imo the SNP will in a post-Brexit world likely opt for EFTA. Or end up there.

 

Post-Brexit I agree of course that's no longer an option, saying that though I seriously doubt we'll "leave" on schedule, if at all.

 

On Spain, I see your point but at the same time an independent Scotland leads to at best a weaker UK, and a greater possibility of 'returning' Gibraltar. I.e. It may be British but It isn't necessarily English.

 

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doctor jambo
Just now, maroonlegions said:

 

And there we have it, a pure  red poker up the sun dont shine.

 

Cameron  has no fecking regrets, what a cretin.

 

 

 

Quite, he always has been  a twat.

May is a hopeless twat,

Corbyn is a hopeless twat.

I don't even know who the libdem leader is anymore.

Can I not vote Obama ?

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maroonlegions
Just now, doctor jambo said:

Sorry, I'm not escaping a fire by leaping off a cliff.

Labour are at least as culpable, in that they don't present an electable alternative.

Blair would have won the last GE by a landslide, as would david Milliband, Starmer and so on.

Really ,according to who, Corbyn seriously pegged back the Tory majority at the last election, has INCREASED the Labour party membership, is this the  work and result of a non electable alternative.??

 

Your dislike of Corbyn is painting you a picture of another version of hope.

 

 

 

 

Staggering , just plain staggering.

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doctor jambo
Just now, maroonlegions said:

Really ,according to who, Corbyn seriously pegged back the Tory majority at the last election, has INCREASED the Labour party membership, is this the  work and result of a non electable alternative.??

 

Your dislike of Corbyn is painting you a picture of another version of hope.

 

 

 

 

Staggering , just plain staggering.

Membership sure- but that is the "new radicals" that joined up to skew the leadership elections.

the failure of Labour to win the last GE outright was an abject failure, celebrated as a success.

The last GE that saw SLAB utterly humiliated.

A decent labour leader in England would have seen a landslide- Labour needs to stop seeing people in good jobs on decent money are not their enemy

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Section Q
22 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

 

Is there any 'moderates' left though? They've chased most of what was electable out the party and replaced them with people that wouldn't stand a chance of being leader.

The Yvette Coopers and Eddie Balls of the party have been replaced with real Labour people..

 

1544540221298.jpg

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doctor jambo
2 minutes ago, Section Q said:

The Yvette Coopers and Eddie Balls of the party have been replaced with real Labour people..

 

1544540221298.jpg

I would dispute that- they have stopped representing the "working people" ie people who work.

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