Jump to content
jake

Labour

Recommended Posts

JamboAl
1 hour ago, I P Knightley said:

To be honest, I looked at it once and could bear being proved wrong. One way or the other, it should be no big deal. Firstly, May is an awful woman - it shouldn't need said; secondly, Corbyn should be destroying her, not just muttering hard truths under his breath.

1

Totally agree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
milky_26
On 18/12/2018 at 19:13, maroonlegions said:

Anyone who hates the present vile Tory gangsters  then here is something that might be of interest to you.

 

The biased broadcasting corporation are writing off the only song in the running for Christmas number one that is giving ALL its proceeds to charity - the Trussell Trust.

 

The link between the bbc being in the pockets of the Tories and the need for the Trussell Trust and other food banks increasing under this government and the resulting article is noted. How about we all download it for less than a quid, and help out those who need it most this winter?

 

maybe the biased broadcasting corporation as you put it helped them to get the christmas number one

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-46647954

 

or does that not suit your world views

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jambo-Jimbo
39 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

 https://order-order.com/2019/02/01/chukas-local-party-seized-corbynites-mass-meeting/

Another nail in the coffin for the moderate MP's in the Labour Party? 

 

And some folks think the Tories are at war.

 

When the civil war breaks out in Labour it'll make the one in the Tories look like a Sunday bible class meeting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Trapper John McIntyre
7 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

And some folks think the Tories are at war.

 

When the civil war breaks out in Labour it'll make the one in the Tories look like a Sunday bible class meeting.

What about the one coming in the SNPee?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dawnrazor
2 minutes ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

What about the one coming in the SNPee?

What and who do you think will happen there? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Trapper John McIntyre
1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

What and who do you think will happen there? 

I'm too frighhtened to say. I seem to get banned from all threads that mention the Party of Scotland without an explanation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Mighty Thor
13 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

And some folks think the Tories are at war.

 

When the civil war breaks out in Labour it'll make the one in the Tories look like a Sunday bible class meeting.

No one will notice.

The Labour Party is an irrelevance. 

A civil war will only accelerate their  disappearance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dawnrazor
11 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

And some folks think the Tories are at war.

 

When the civil war breaks out in Labour it'll make the one in the Tories look like a Sunday bible class meeting.

The thing is, if the split comes, and I think it's looking likely, it will split the left and centre left vote and allow the tories a free run for a long time, now, I'm a Conservative voter but the level of opposition is at an all time low and any government NEEDS a competent opposition, they won't get it. I'm not sure how the split would go, would the "new" party keep the Labour name? It will be messy! 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dawnrazor
6 minutes ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

I'm too frighhtened to say. I seem to get banned from all threads that mention the Party of Scotland without an explanation.

? I understand ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JamboX2
14 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

What and who do you think will happen there? 

 

Depends on how Sturgeon approaches the indy question. Leave it much longer and tensions will build from underneath her. I've seen Joanna Cherry, Pete Wishart, Angus MacNeil and a few others dodged some of the photo ops with her in London before the Salmond case. That would suggest factions.

 

Kenny MacAskill, Justice Secretary under Salmond, has called for her husband to stand down as party chief executive to broaden the leadership.

 

If she, perhaps rightly, doesn't play the indy card until Brexit is finalised so she knows how to plan a campaign she may be looking at a vote after the next Holyrood elections. Which if she or the Greens loose seats will destroy a low independence majority in Holyrood. If that happens it'll blow up.

 

Issue for the SNP at that point is they're  back in the 2007 parliament: in office and reliant on support from out with the other independence parties. A SNP-lab deal? It's more her way than her predecessor buying off the Tories for 4 years. But will her supporters wear it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JamboX2
14 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

No one will notice.

The Labour Party is an irrelevance. 

A civil war will only accelerate their  disappearance.

 

In Scotland perhaps. In England yes. 

 

Strangely, the moderate Labour MPs at this point would do better for Labour in Scotland due to their pro-EU lines and in my view would have Labour ahead in the polls across the UK.

 

Corbyn's time is slowly drying up. One of my 2019 predictions was he'd go this year. I don't think he can continue to hang on in as the political landscape starts to change.

 

The one nation Tories (largely from the north) will desert their party over Brexit and it's increasingly right wing stance. The Labour party is set to go through a different change; young Corbynites in major cities will abandon his movement for moderates over the EU whilst it's northern MPs will be increasingly anti-cosmopolitan.

 

It's a risk Scotland faces too as the axe to local government dries up more services.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Mighty Thor
3 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

In Scotland perhaps. In England yes. 

 

Strangely, the moderate Labour MPs at this point would do better for Labour in Scotland due to their pro-EU lines and in my view would have Labour ahead in the polls across the UK.

 

Corbyn's time is slowly drying up. One of my 2019 predictions was he'd go this year. I don't think he can continue to hang on in as the political landscape starts to change.

 

The one nation Tories (largely from the north) will desert their party over Brexit and it's increasingly right wing stance. The Labour party is set to go through a different change; young Corbynites in major cities will abandon his movement for moderates over the EU whilst it's northern MPs will be increasingly anti-cosmopolitan.

 

It's a risk Scotland faces too as the axe to local government dries up more services.

I find it hard to believe that the Labour party has ended up where it has. I never saw that coming in my lifetime, not in Scotland.

 

However they are dying a death and not even a slow one and the current Westminster incarnation is so far removed from the slick Blair machine of not even 20 years ago.

 

I don't think Corbyn is going anywhere soon and unbelievably his stance on Brexit and lack of challenge to the worst Government in decades isn't even impacting his popularity. 

 

I don't think this party will change. The die is cast, the lunatics have the asylum. There may evolve a more centrist main stream party but it won't be anything to do with that sorry mess.

 

In terms of Scotland I'll say two things. Richard. Leonard.

A man unknown outwith his own family and out his depth in Holyrood.

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JamboX2
4 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I find it hard to believe that the Labour party has ended up where it has. I never saw that coming in my lifetime, not in Scotland.

 

However they are dying a death and not even a slow one and the current Westminster incarnation is so far removed from the slick Blair machine of not even 20 years ago.

 

I don't think Corbyn is going anywhere soon and unbelievably his stance on Brexit and lack of challenge to the worst Government in decades isn't even impacting his popularity. 

 

I don't think this party will change. The die is cast, the lunatics have the asylum. There may evolve a more centrist main stream party but it won't be anything to do with that sorry mess.

 

In terms of Scotland I'll say two things. Richard. Leonard.

A man unknown outwith his own family and out his depth in Holyrood.

 

I'm always one to give folk time but I agree. But have to agree with this. He's had about as much impact as a snowflake landing on metal. Toom tabbard type. 

 

Was utterly shocked about how poor they were in budget negotiations with the government. Never spoke with them, barely even treated it like a political stunt. Absent. Not that I support this budget and I think the Greens sold out cheaply. But by Christ is was a shocker from Labour.

 

I would hope one day they'll get it together. But for now badly run and badly led in my eyes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Roxy Hearts

Labour = joke. Thank goodness we have the SNP to vote for now. Labour used to be the people's party and had some good MP's but I could never vote for them again. 

They treat Holyrood with contempt and I find that shocking. Very immature attitude to Scottish politics. Our parliament represents the people who live here and they forget that. They should disagree when necessary and work together where possible but they just take the huff. As for Leonard, dearie me! 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
maroonlegions

Never trust a Lib Den or Cable boy, they/he will get into bed with anyone if the price is right.

 

Image may contain: 1 person, text that says "Socialist Voice @SocialistVoice French pensioners are scavenging in bins for food because they can barely afford to live, while France is crumbling due to a public uprising under centrist president Emmanuel Macron Lib Dem leader Vince Cable wants to introduce this formula to Britain BBC NEWS Cable offer same formula as Macron bbc.com"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
maroonlegions
On 03/02/2019 at 08:30, Lord BJ said:

Feck me, source is a tory rag. :facepalm:

 

Tories are shitting it, just ask their propaganda machine the BBC, lies and made up crap about Corbyn of which they have in part admitted it in the past.

 

Victorian diseases are making a come back in the poor, in children too, you must be proud eh.?

 

 

 

Edited by maroonlegions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Governor Tarkin
15 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

 

Victorian diseases are making a come back in the poor, in children too, you must be proud eh.?

 

 

 

 

Qu'ils mangent de la brioche.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jambo-Jimbo
33 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

 

Victorian diseases are making a come back in the poor, in children too, you must be proud eh.?

 

 

 

Which diseases are they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pans Jambo
1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Which diseases are they?

Starvation & malnurishment. 

 

I’m sure the tories want to send the bairns back up the chimneys TBH. 

 

& Labour would abstain on that vote!

 

Edited by Pans Jambo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jambo-Jimbo
Just now, Pans Jambo said:

Starvation

 

That's not a disease, but many people did starve to death in Victorian times, including many children. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
maroonlegions
On 05/02/2019 at 18:58, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

That's not a disease, but many people did starve to death in Victorian times, including many children. 

Ok "malnutrition" caused by starvation by a lack of bodily  vitamins due to poverty or the reliance to food banks. Whatever way the Tories spin this its their DIRECT welfare reforms that are contributing to a growing trend in Victorian diseases making a come back, in children.  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jake
18 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

Ok "malnutrition" caused by starvation by a lack of bodily  vitamins due to poverty or the reliance to food banks. Whatever way the Tories spin this its their DIRECT welfare reforms that are contributing to a growing trend in Victorian diseases making a come back, in children.  

 

 

Malnutrition is a disease mate.

And the disgrace of malnutrition world wide is a man made disease.

And a damning indictment of capitalism and political will from us all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
maroonlegions
11 minutes ago, jake said:

Malnutrition is a disease mate.

And the disgrace of malnutrition world wide is a man made disease.

And a damning indictment of capitalism and political will from us all.

OK most vote by their political will, or more likely on pre election promises, "in it together" that Tory pre election mantra was a promise that they never intend to follow through with. Manipulation is the key to most politics and  of not trying to sound like Bob Geldoph from Live Aid, politics like religion has a lot to answer for in relation to extreme poverty and people dying of starvation.

Edited by maroonlegions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
maroonlegions

Bang on.

 

 

 

Image may contain: 1 person, smiling, text
 
 
:greggy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jake
31 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

OK most vote by their political will, or more likely on pre election promises, "in it together" that Tory pre election mantra was a promise that they never intend to follow through with. Manipulation is the key to most politics and  of not trying to sound like Bob Geldoph from Live Aid, politics like religion has a lot to answer for in relation to extreme poverty and people dying of starvation.

Sadly Maroon Labour are barely different.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jambo-Jimbo
3 hours ago, maroonlegions said:

Ok "malnutrition" caused by starvation by a lack of bodily  vitamins due to poverty or the reliance to food banks. Whatever way the Tories spin this its their DIRECT welfare reforms that are contributing to a growing trend in Victorian diseases making a come back, in children.  

 

 

 

But you still haven't answered the original question.

 

So I'll repeat it.

 

What Victorian diseases are making a comeback?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ulysses
10 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

But you still haven't answered the original question.

 

So I'll repeat it.

 

What Victorian diseases are making a comeback?

 

Gout, whooping cough and scarlet fever, according to this article:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/02/dickensian-diseases-gout-whooping-cough-and-scarlet-fever-on-rise

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ulysses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jambo-Jimbo
9 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

6 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Gout - Isn't gout linked more to lifestyle, according to the NHS it is linked to excess alcohol consumption and being overweight?

Whooping Cough - To be pedantic Whooping cough can't really be described as a Victorian disease seeing as it was only properly diagnosed in 1906, 5 years after Victoria died, Edwardian disease yes, Victorian disease no.  Seriously though the whooping cough vaccine only lasts a few years according to the NHS and those most at risk include those who have already been vaccinated against it amongst the normal victims such as infants etc etc.

Scarlet Fever -  My brother had scarlet fever in the '60's, it never really went away despite vaccinations, indeed in 2011 there were cases in Hong Kong of drug resistant scarlet fever, so whilst nobody really knows why scalet fever is making a comeback, one possible and very viable reason is antibiotic resistance.

Rickets - The primary cause is the lack of vitamin D and the main source of vitamin D is sunlight, mmm lack of sunlight in the UK, anyway Australia one of the sunniest countries in the world, experienced an alarming increase of cases of rickets just recently, seems it was linked to the 'Slip-Slop-Slap' campaign of the '80's which encouraged Aussies to slap on the sun-lotion, problem being is it blocked out the sun, which is the main sources of Vitamin D and the lack off is the main cause of rickets, so if parents in the UK followed the same advise which they did and slapped on the sun cream on themselves and their children, then it is little wonder that rickets is on the increase in the UK as well.

Scurvy -  It's not just the UK which is seeing increases of cases of scurvy, the whole of the Western world including the USA & Australia are also reporting an increase in cases of scurvy, why?  Probably due to diet in the Western world, so it's being reported.

T.B. -  Oh come on mate, everybody knows that TB is making a comeback mainly due to antibiotic resistance.  On a personal note, my family like many others have been touched by TB, I lost a direct ancestor at the age of 28 to TB and even into modern times one of my uncles had TB in the '60's, resulting in the whole family being vaccinated even although I was too young to even remember it.

 

But you have left out the rise in Measles, that rise being due to the discredited research of Dr. Andrew Wakefield and the continuing campaign of the anti-vaxxers and their IMO stupid views, resulting in many parents in the UK not getting their children immunised against diseases such as Measles, little wonder then that there is an increase of Measles cases.

 

So in conclusion, whilst there are many things which people can hold the Tories to account for, the rise of the so called 'Victorian diseases' isn't one of them, simply because we are seeing an increase in these diseases not just in the UK but worldwide and all at the same time, so whilst it might be easy to blame the Tories in the UK, there is something much more widespread around the world contibuting to the rise of these so called 'Victorian Diseases'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ulysses
2 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

 

Gout - Isn't gout linked more to lifestyle, according to the NHS it is linked to excess alcohol consumption and being overweight?

Whooping Cough - To be pedantic Whooping cough can't really be described as a Victorian disease seeing as it was only properly diagnosed in 1906, 5 years after Victoria died, Edwardian disease yes, Victorian disease no.  Seriously though the whooping cough vaccine only lasts a few years according to the NHS and those most at risk include those who have already been vaccinated against it amongst the normal victims such as infants etc etc.

Scarlet Fever -  My brother had scarlet fever in the '60's, it never really went away despite vaccinations, indeed in 2011 there were cases in Hong Kong of drug resistant scarlet fever, so whilst nobody really knows why scalet fever is making a comeback, one possible and very viable reason is antibiotic resistance.

Rickets - The primary cause is the lack of vitamin D and the main source of vitamin D is sunlight, mmm lack of sunlight in the UK, anyway Australia one of the sunniest countries in the world, experienced an alarming increase of cases of rickets just recently, seems it was linked to the 'Slip-Slop-Slap' campaign of the '80's which encouraged Aussies to slap on the sun-lotion, problem being is it blocked out the sun, which is the main sources of Vitamin D and the lack off is the main cause of rickets, so if parents in the UK followed the same advise which they did and slapped on the sun cream on themselves and their children, then it is little wonder that rickets is on the increase in the UK as well.

Scurvy -  It's not just the UK which is seeing increases of cases of scurvy, the whole of the Western world including the USA & Australia are also reporting an increase in cases of scurvy, why?  Probably due to diet in the Western world, so it's being reported.

T.B. -  Oh come on mate, everybody knows that TB is making a comeback mainly due to antibiotic resistance.  On a personal note, my family like many others have been touched by TB, I lost a direct ancestor at the age of 28 to TB and even into modern times one of my uncles had TB in the '60's, resulting in the whole family being vaccinated even although I was too young to even remember it.

 

But you have left out the rise in Measles, that rise being due to the discredited research of Dr. Andrew Wakefield and the continuing campaign of the anti-vaxxers and their IMO stupid views, resulting in many parents in the UK not getting their children immunised against diseases such as Measles, little wonder then that there is an increase of Measles cases.

 

So in conclusion, whilst there are many things which people can hold the Tories to account for, the rise of the so called 'Victorian diseases' isn't one of them, simply because we are seeing an increase in these diseases not just in the UK but worldwide and all at the same time, so whilst it might be easy to blame the Tories in the UK, there is something much more widespread around the world contibuting to the rise of these so called 'Victorian Diseases'.

 

You should take some of that up with the Guardian and the Express.  ;)

 

In fairness, the Guardian and the Express referred to "Dickensian" rather than "Victorian", and the little bit of poetic licence doesn't alter the fact that ML isn't alone in seeing things the way he does.

 

Oddly enough, the only three people I've known to have gout were neither overweight nor heavy drinkers.  But then again, none were poor either.

 

Pertussis is almost entirely preventable by immunisation.  The best way to counteract anti-vaxxer propaganda is by education.  But who in local government or the health services can prioritise education when they don't have the resources to do so?

 

Scarlet fever hasn't developed a resistance to antibiotics.  There is a theory that scarlet fever was evolving to become less potent before the invention of antibiotics, and this is borne out by the fact that the modern variety of the disease seems to be less virulent than it was 50 or 100 years ago.  And in fairness, the scientific jury is out on why it is making a comeback.

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/scarlet-fever-is-back-in-the-21st-century-1.3291330

 

Rickets is also a function of poor diet, as is scurvy, and poorer people have worse diets than well-off people.  Austerity policies make that worse - and make it harder to educate poor people to take steps to counter their poor diets.  If you are seeing a rise in malnutrition being picked up by health services - which according to the articles you are - then you should also see a rise in diseases like scurvy and rickets.

 

In Ireland, the three lowest ever rates of TB cases reported were in 2015, 2016 and 2017.  According to the WHO, TB rates worldwide have fallen continuously for 20 years, and TB deaths have fallen continuously as well. 

 

Incidence, fallen by 22% since 2000:  https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/sh.tbs.incd

 

Deaths (excluding HIV-related), fallen by 60% since 2000:  http://apps.who.int/gho/data/view.main.57016ALL?lang=en

 

That is mainly due to continued falling rates of TB in countries which are developing out of poverty.  In the developed West, there have been recorded rises in a number of countries, often linked to increasing levels of poverty and social deprivation.  To quote one sanatorium doctor in France: "People who have social problems tend to postpone going to the doctor.  So tuberculosis can grow and grow. And when they come to the doctor, they often have developed very severe case of tuberculosis."

 

http://en.rfi.fr/visiting-france/20110525-frances-last-sanatorium

 

In Germany, there was a significant rise in the number of TB cases from 2015 onwards due to inward migration from a number of sub-Saharan countries which themselves have a much higher rate of TB; otherwise, numbers are stable and incidence is low. 

 

And overall, the rate of occurrence of TB and deaths from TB continued to fall in the developed world from 2000 to 2017.

 

Oh come on mate, indeed.  ;)

 

As regards measles, don't forget that if the anti-vaxxers get their way the real losers will be poor people, especially poor brown and black people.

 

But most of the above diseases can be made worse by poverty, made harder to recover from by poverty, and made harder to treat and manage by austerity.  Most sickness and disease hits the poor harder than the well-off, so when funding is pulled back from healthcare, or welfare, the health of the poor will suffer more than the health of the well-off.

 

You should read In Place Of Fear.  It was bang on the cash in 1952, and it still is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jambo-Jimbo
7 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

You should take some of that up with the Guardian and the Express.  ;)

 

In fairness, the Guardian and the Express referred to "Dickensian" rather than "Victorian", and the little bit of poetic licence doesn't alter the fact that ML isn't alone in seeing things the way he does.

 

Oddly enough, the only three people I've known to have gout were neither overweight nor heavy drinkers.  But then again, none were poor either.

 

Pertussis is almost entirely preventable by immunisation.  The best way to counteract anti-vaxxer propaganda is by education.  But who in local government or the health services can prioritise education when they don't have the resources to do so?

 

Scarlet fever hasn't developed a resistance to antibiotics.  There is a theory that scarlet fever was evolving to become less potent before the invention of antibiotics, and this is borne out by the fact that the modern variety of the disease seems to be less virulent than it was 50 or 100 years ago.  And in fairness, the scientific jury is out on why it is making a comeback.

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/scarlet-fever-is-back-in-the-21st-century-1.3291330

 

Rickets is also a function of poor diet, as is scurvy, and poorer people have worse diets than well-off people.  Austerity policies make that worse - and make it harder to educate poor people to take steps to counter their poor diets.  If you are seeing a rise in malnutrition being picked up by health services - which according to the articles you are - then you should also see a rise in diseases like scurvy and rickets.

 

In Ireland, the three lowest ever rates of TB cases reported were in 2015, 2016 and 2017.  According to the WHO, TB rates worldwide have fallen continuously for 20 years, and TB deaths have fallen continuously as well. 

 

Incidence, fallen by 22% since 2000:  https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/sh.tbs.incd

 

Deaths (excluding HIV-related), fallen by 60% since 2000:  http://apps.who.int/gho/data/view.main.57016ALL?lang=en

 

That is mainly due to continued falling rates of TB in countries which are developing out of poverty.  In the developed West, there have been recorded rises in a number of countries, often linked to increasing levels of poverty and social deprivation.  To quote one sanatorium doctor in France: "People who have social problems tend to postpone going to the doctor.  So tuberculosis can grow and grow. And when they come to the doctor, they often have developed very severe case of tuberculosis."

 

http://en.rfi.fr/visiting-france/20110525-frances-last-sanatorium

 

In Germany, there was a significant rise in the number of TB cases from 2015 onwards due to inward migration from a number of sub-Saharan countries which themselves have a much higher rate of TB; otherwise, numbers are stable and incidence is low. 

 

And overall, the rate of occurrence of TB and deaths from TB continued to fall in the developed world from 2000 to 2017.

 

Oh come on mate, indeed.  ;)

 

As regards measles, don't forget that if the anti-vaxxers get their way the real losers will be poor people, especially poor brown and black people.

 

But most of the above diseases can be made worse by poverty, made harder to recover from by poverty, and made harder to treat and manage by austerity.  Most sickness and disease hits the poor harder than the well-off, so when funding is pulled back from healthcare, or welfare, the health of the poor will suffer more than the health of the well-off.

 

You should read In Place Of Fear.  It was bang on the cash in 1952, and it still is.

 

The link between the poor and poor health is long established and I'm not disputing that, I'm not disputing that austerity, poor housing, poor diets and social deprivation are all contributory factors in an increase of some diseases & Illnesses being reported, they go hand in hand and have done throughout history.

However in saying that to lay the blame for it at one political party is wrong, because social deprivation has never been eradicated, it's always been there to some degree or another and that's irrespective of what political party happens to be in charge, granted austerity hasn't helped matters.

 

Measles & education, you are correct, however no matter how much money is spent all it takes nowadays is one false statement on social media and that could and does destroy weeks/months/years of hard work of educating people to the benefits of immunisation.

 

Guardian, Express, the media in general, oh they do like a headline don't they, something to grab our attention.

Every week it seems that there is new research into something which rubbishes the research findings from the previous week.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Boris
2 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

However in saying that to lay the blame for it at one political party is wrong, because social deprivation has never been eradicated, it's always been there to some degree or another and that's irrespective of what political party happens to be in charge, granted austerity hasn't helped matters.

 

 

It hasn't been eradicated, but (and this may just be my interpretation) to me there is one particluar party which seems to exacerbate it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jambo-Jimbo
56 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

It hasn't been eradicated, but (and this may just be my interpretation) to me there is one particluar party which seems to exacerbate it!

 

My old dad used to say that under the Tories 'The rich get richer & the poor get poorer' and for as long as I can remember it's always been that way, yet people still vote for them, even when they know what they're getting. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Boris
Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

My old dad used to say that under the Tories 'The rich get richer & the poor get poorer' and for as long as I can remember it's always been that way, yet people still vote for them, even when they know what they're getting. 

 

 

Your Dad is spot on! 

 

Unfortunately if people wish to believ in institutions like the monarchy, or "knowing ones place", or indulge in forelock tugging exercises, then it's not surprising.  The Tories, given their media arsenal, are masters of propaganda!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jake
12 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

My old dad used to say that under the Tories 'The rich get richer & the poor get poorer' and for as long as I can remember it's always been that way, yet people still vote for them, even when they know what they're getting. 

 

The gap between rich and poor grew under the last Labour  government.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jambo-Jimbo
20 minutes ago, jake said:

The gap between rich and poor grew under the last Labour  government.

 

 

Indeed it did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Boris
24 minutes ago, jake said:

The gap between rich and poor grew under the last Labour  government.

 

 

The neoliberal "red" Tory one?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thunderstruck
4 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

The link between the poor and poor health is long established and I'm not disputing that, I'm not disputing that austerity, poor housing, poor diets and social deprivation are all contributory factors in an increase of some diseases & Illnesses being reported, they go hand in hand and have done throughout history.

However in saying that to lay the blame for it at one political party is wrong, because social deprivation has never been eradicated, it's always been there to some degree or another and that's irrespective of what political party happens to be in charge, granted austerity hasn't helped matters.

 

Measles & education, you are correct, however no matter how much money is spent all it takes nowadays is one false statement on social media and that could and does destroy weeks/months/years of hard work of educating people to the benefits of immunisation.

 

Guardian, Express, the media in general, oh they do like a headline don't they, something to grab our attention.

Every week it seems that there is new research into something which rubbishes the research findings from the previous week.

 

 

You are quite right about the media and the love of a headline. Sadly, the internet is also full of individuals who will repeat those poorly researched media items without even the most cursory fact-check. 

 

A couple of examples...

 

An increasing incidence of TB was noted by an NHS report in 2009 - at the time of what we are advised was one of the highest levels of Health and Social Care spending. 

 

Deprivation may well be an indicator but it is far from the only factor.

 

That report noted that, in addition to deprivation and over-crowding, reduction in TB controls, increased migration, the spread of HIV, an increase in drug-resistant TB, and increases of some non-communicable diseases that are risk factors for TB, including type 2 diabetes associated with the global pandemic of obesity. 

 

As for Whooping Cough, the resurgence is thought to be due to the development of a milder vaccine (one with fewer side-effects). This newer vaccine acts differently and does not offer the same long-term protection as the original and, while it prevents infection, it does not eradicate the bacteria from the respiratory tract. This means that individuals will not show the symptoms of whooping cough but can, nonetheless, be teeming with the bacteria and infect the unprotected such as the unfortunate children of parents who think vaccination is the Devil’s Work. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jambo-Jimbo
47 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

You are quite right about the media and the love of a headline. Sadly, the internet is also full of individuals who will repeat those poorly researched media items without even the most cursory fact-check. 

 

As for Whooping Cough, the resurgence is thought to be due to the development of a milder vaccine (one with fewer side-effects). This newer vaccine acts differently and does not offer the same long-term protection as the original and, while it prevents infection, it does not eradicate the bacteria from the respiratory tract. This means that individuals will not show the symptoms of whooping cough but can, nonetheless, be teeming with the bacteria and infect the unprotected such as the unfortunate children of parents who think vaccination is the Devil’s Work. 

 

Social media has a lot to answer for, one false statement can very quickly destroy years of work & education, and once it's out there the damage is done, because there will be many who will believe some random post on facebook over what the government/health service says.

 

Or Fox News presenters who think that just because you can't see the germs it means that they don't exist.

 

Edited by Jambo-Jimbo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ri Alban
2 hours ago, jake said:

The gap between rich and poor grew under the last Labour  government.

 

The difference being the poor became richer. Under this mob , the poor are becoming seriously poor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Governor Tarkin
36 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

The difference being the poor became richer.

 

I'm not so sure that they did. They were just allowed to borrow more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jake
3 hours ago, Boris said:

 

The neoliberal "red" Tory one?

Just the Labour party.

 

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

The difference being the poor became richer. Under this mob , the poor are becoming seriously poor.

It's all relative 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jake
44 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I'm not so sure that they did. They were just allowed to borrow more.

Yip.

Although to be fair the tax credit was a decent move.

Although in my eyes when you have companies like Tesco who had over a third of its employees claiming it.

 

You have to wonder who they were subsidising?

 

At the time Tesco were taking 1 pound in every 7 spent in the UK.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
maroonlegions

Is anyone in the Labour party this blatantly retarded just now.

 

 

Image may contain: text
 
 

:jj_facepalm:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
maroonlegions
Image may contain: 1 person, text
 
 
 
:gok:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JamboX2
2 hours ago, maroonlegions said:
Image may contain: 1 person, text
 
 
 
:gok:

That's a spoof Ken Clarke account.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...